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What is Microsoft thinking?
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| Preston Crawford 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| So a friend of mine and I are wanting to play Xbox 360 together. My
little brother has one too, so that helps. I'm not a huge Microsoft fan,
but I'll buy their products when I feel them superior. And I have to
give Microsoft their due. The Xbox was great. And the 360 was great.
Problem is, here we are, willing to shell out $400 a piece plus who
knows how much for games, etc. and we absolutely cannot find one
anywhere. It's getting kind of ridiculous, frankly. If it goes on much
longer I think I'll just get the PS3. I have to wonder what is going on
in Redmond that they can't get these things into stores for people to
buy them. Plenty of accessories to buy. Just no systems.
Preston
| |
| Paul Smith 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| "Preston Crawford" <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message
news:slrndvv2bt.gpe.me@serpentor.cobrala...
quote:
> So a friend of mine and I are wanting to play Xbox 360 together. My
> little brother has one too, so that helps. I'm not a huge Microsoft fan,
> but I'll buy their products when I feel them superior. And I have to
> give Microsoft their due. The Xbox was great. And the 360 was great.
> Problem is, here we are, willing to shell out $400 a piece plus who
> knows how much for games, etc. and we absolutely cannot find one
> anywhere. It's getting kind of ridiculous, frankly. If it goes on much
> longer I think I'll just get the PS3. I have to wonder what is going on
> in Redmond that they can't get these things into stores for people to
> buy them. Plenty of accessories to buy. Just no systems.
Well by the time the PS3 comes out - whatever year that will be I'm sure
you'll be able to find them in stores. 8-) Just hang in there, they're
coming through.
--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.
http://www.windowsresource.net/
*Remove 'nospam.' to reply by e-mail*
| |
|
|
"Preston Crawford" <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message
news:slrndvv2bt.gpe.me@serpentor.cobrala...
quote:
> If it goes on much longer I think I'll just get the PS3.
It'll have to go on until 2007 cause you won't likely see a PS3 until then,
and once it comes out you may not be able to afford one...
| |
| Doug Jacobs 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| Preston Crawford <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote:
quote:
> So a friend of mine and I are wanting to play Xbox 360 together. My
> little brother has one too, so that helps. I'm not a huge Microsoft fan,
> but I'll buy their products when I feel them superior. And I have to
> give Microsoft their due. The Xbox was great. And the 360 was great.
> Problem is, here we are, willing to shell out $400 a piece plus who
> knows how much for games, etc. and we absolutely cannot find one
> anywhere. It's getting kind of ridiculous, frankly. If it goes on much
> longer I think I'll just get the PS3. I have to wonder what is going on
> in Redmond that they can't get these things into stores for people to
> buy them. Plenty of accessories to buy. Just no systems.
Microsoft hit manufacturing problems, but couldn't afford to miss the 2005
holiday shopping season, so they shipped what they had, and have been
scrambling to make more ever since.
I don't know what they could have done differently. They really couldn't
have afforded to miss the one opportunity to sell the 360 as the only
next-gen console on the market, but at the same time, they sort of wasted
the opportunity by failing to ship in sufficient quantities.
Microsoft has said "more are coming" and hopefully the shortage will end
within the next month.
After that, the other problem will become apparent - not enough games.
| |
| Twelve 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| > Microsoft hit manufacturing problems, but couldn't afford to miss the 2005
quote:
> holiday shopping season, so they shipped what they had, and have been
> scrambling to make more ever since.
>
> I don't know what they could have done differently. They really couldn't
> have afforded to miss the one opportunity to sell the 360 as the only
> next-gen console on the market, but at the same time, they sort of wasted
> the opportunity by failing to ship in sufficient quantities.
>
> Microsoft has said "more are coming" and hopefully the shortage will end
> within the next month.
>
> After that, the other problem will become apparent - not enough games.
........here's what they could have done, blow off the self-righteous
japanese altogether and let the rest of the world wait their turn. instead
they got all worked up, believing the spring time release of the ps3, and
figured they desperately needed a 4 to 6 month window as an exclusive sale
in an overseas market. unfortunately, the only thing that's exclusive are
the people that actually own a 360.
big mistake......huge.....possibly the worst console launch ever, aren't
they suppose to have experts hanging around, consultants to tell them things
like...'you know what, screw the japanese and here's why, they don't want
the damn thing anyway. give it six months and release in the spring'
instead they forced it into all the markets out of a misguided, arguably
criminal business decision to put in the one market that wanted it the
least, and the result is a handful of games with not many more on the
horizon and a whole lot of pissed off people even three months after launch.
you know something went horribly wrong when the amount of folks who are
willing but unable to buy something, particularly a video game console, 90
days after it came out, outnumber the ones who already own it.
by the way, picked mine up a few days ago. like it very much.
| |
| Preston Crawford 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| On 2006-02-25, Twelve <mall69@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
quote:
> .......here's what they could have done, blow off the self-righteous
> japanese altogether and let the rest of the world wait their turn. instead
Okay, I will have to say right off that I disagree with the
self-righteous part. The majority of your post I completely agree with.
But just because the Xbox does poorly in Japan is no reason to make it a
cultural issue. Japanese developers consistently produce creative,
innovative, interesting games that rarely see the light of day here and
when they do it's like lightning striking. So as a fan of many software
devs, I take issue with that statement.
That said, you are correct. Japan was a lost cause. Japan frequently
(I'm a Nintendo DS owner, former GBA owner, so I see this all the time)
gets games months if not years ahead of the US. Sometimes they don't
bother bringing games to the US. So there's already a precedent for
saying "hey, this is basically a US console, if it has crossover appeal
that's a bonus, but otherwise we won't worry too much about it". They
could have totally done that and not only would it be in line with what
Japan frequently does with games that get released THERE first, but it
would have been good for Microsoft.
quote:
> big mistake......huge.....possibly the worst console launch ever, aren't
> they suppose to have experts hanging around, consultants to tell them things
I would say it's safe to say (excluding systems like the NGage and the
Game.com, although even then it's debatable) that this is easily the
worst console launch ever. Especially for a major console that's a
sequel to a console that had a lot of momentum. People were lining up,
willing to trade in their old Xboxes, even if there was no
backwards-compatability and Microsoft didn't have anything to sell them.
It's embarrasing. Or it should be to them. I think it's safe to say that
not only is this the worst console launch ever, but it's quite possibly
one of the worst product launches ever.
quote:
> horizon and a whole lot of pissed off people even three months after launch.
> you know something went horribly wrong when the amount of folks who are
> willing but unable to buy something, particularly a video game console, 90
> days after it came out, outnumber the ones who already own it.
Don't forgot all the people that pre-ordered. Every day that I go into
my local Game Crazy there is some angry customer who pre-ordered way
back in like August. So they've been waiting over half a year for this
system. Anxiously waiting in anticipation. They've paid money. And still
no system on the horizon for them. No hope. Microsoft is angering more
customers than they're gaining by the minute.
quote:
> by the way, picked mine up a few days ago. like it very much.
Lucky!
Preston
| |
| Preston Crawford 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| On 2006-02-25, Doug Jacobs <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
quote:
> Microsoft hit manufacturing problems, but couldn't afford to miss the 2005
> holiday shopping season, so they shipped what they had, and have been
> scrambling to make more ever since.
Why? So a bad product launch is better than just delaying it? Microsoft,
love them or hate them, is a good business. They delay products all the
time and wait for a better time to launch. This was a major FUBAR on
their part. Period. End of story.
quote:
> I don't know what they could have done differently. They really couldn't
They could have waited to sell the 360 until they had some to sell. I
feel like at this point they're literally making them one by one and
shipping them off as they're made. It's like Santa's workshop and only
one elf is on the job. It's ridiculous.
quote:
> have afforded to miss the one opportunity to sell the 360 as the only
> next-gen console on the market, but at the same time, they sort of wasted
> the opportunity by failing to ship in sufficient quantities.
Dreamcast was first out the door and that did them a lot of good. They
needed to be better than they have been.
quote:
> Microsoft has said "more are coming" and hopefully the shortage will end
> within the next month.
That's a pipe dream, IMHO.
Preston
| |
| Preston Crawford 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| On 2006-02-24, Phil <scream1969@REMOVETEXTINCAPShotmail.com> wrote:
quote:
>
> "Preston Crawford" <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message
> news:slrndvv2bt.gpe.me@serpentor.cobrala...
>
> It'll have to go on until 2007 cause you won't likely see a PS3 until then,
> and once it comes out you may not be able to afford one...
Maybe not. At least one will actually be on store shelves sometime in
the near future. Whichever one is, I'll buy it.
Preston
| |
| Preston Crawford 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| On 2006-02-24, Paul Smith <Paul@nospam.windowsresource.net> wrote:
quote:
> Well by the time the PS3 comes out - whatever year that will be I'm sure
> you'll be able to find them in stores. 8-) Just hang in there, they're
> coming through.
There better be a torrent of 360s like right around the corner.
Otherwise that statement looks ridiculous right now.
Preston
| |
| Doug Jacobs 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| Preston Crawford <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote:
quote:
> On 2006-02-25, Doug Jacobs <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Why? So a bad product launch is better than just delaying it? Microsoft,
> love them or hate them, is a good business. They delay products all the
> time and wait for a better time to launch. This was a major FUBAR on
> their part. Period. End of story.
First off, Microsoft, a public company, has to answer to stockholders.
This often means that any sort of common sense flies out the window.
Second, it's not like there's a lot of competition in their primary markets
of OS and Office productivity software. No one's really going to care if
the next release of Windows is delayed a month or two.
In a real way, Microsoft didn't have a choice but to push forward with
their original release plans, despite the horrible supply issues they
would face. One way they can try to catch up to Sony was to release
their console as early as possible in hopes of catching as many customers
as possible before the PS3 comes out. This would obviously mean hitting
the holiday shopping season in the US. While we can look back and say
Microsoft should have dropped Japan (and maybe even Europe) to just focus
on their strongest market(s) but in reality Microsoft had already
commited itself to a worldwide release and it was too late to redistribute
inventory. Furthermore, they'd already said they were going to launch in
November and the worst thing a public company can do is go back on
something they'd promised.
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> They could have waited to sell the 360 until they had some to sell. I
> feel like at this point they're literally making them one by one and
> shipping them off as they're made. It's like Santa's workshop and only
> one elf is on the job. It's ridiculous.
I'm not disagreeing, but I don't think they had a choice. The keystone of
Microsoft's early launch was to have one uncontested holiday season. They
would also have looked bad to their stockholders, which is a cardinal sin
in the corporate world.
Microsoft has to get all the sales they can get before the PS3 ships
because after that, it'll be a continual fight to get customers.
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Dreamcast was first out the door and that did them a lot of good. They
> needed to be better than they have been.
Yeah, a lot of people (myself included) made the Dreamcast comparison. It
remains to be seen if the 360 is doomed to repeat the Dreamcast's history.
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> That's a pipe dream, IMHO.
Well, it remains to be seen...
| |
| Paul Smith 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| "Preston Crawford" <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message
news:slrne003j7.t5j.me@serpentor.cobrala...
quote:
> There better be a torrent of 360s like right around the corner.
> Otherwise that statement looks ridiculous right now.
I work in retail, they're practically coming in every day, and have been
since launch. They juts go straight away - you just have to time it right.
--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User.
http://www.windowsresource.net/
*Remove 'nospam.' to reply by e-mail*
| |
| Chris H. 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| When you "look" are you asking the manager of the area? I was in a
different state (actually in Hawaii, lucky me) on Wednesday and saw a fellow
with a rather long face looking at empty shelves in a Wal-Mart. I asked him
if he was looking for an Xbox 360, and he said he looks every day but there
were none displayed in the cases. I asked him if he had asked the
electronics section manager, and he said no. I suggested he should do that.
It wasn't five minutes later the manager produced a Premium version from
storage in the back, and a happy customer left the store grinning
ear-to-ear. The manager said it was a lot easier on the staff to spend a
couple minutes retrieving a unit when someone asks, than to staff the Xbox
section with personnel/keys full-time.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
"Preston Crawford" <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message
news:slrne003hr.t5j.me@serpentor.cobrala...
quote:
> On 2006-02-24, Phil <scream1969@REMOVETEXTINCAPShotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe not. At least one will actually be on store shelves sometime in
> the near future. Whichever one is, I'll buy it.
>
> Preston
| |
| Preston Crawford 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| On 2006-02-25, Paul Smith <Paul@nospam.windowsresource.net> wrote:
quote:
> "Preston Crawford" <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message
> news:slrne003j7.t5j.me@serpentor.cobrala...
>
>
> I work in retail, they're practically coming in every day, and have been
> since launch. They juts go straight away - you just have to time it right.
Where I am (the US) they're still a trickle. Like a couple of units
every 2 weeks or a month at most stores.
Preston
| |
|
| i use to work in a walmart like store in the midwest US area a few
months ago and we did the same thing. It is easier to keep the Xbox
360's in the back and have people ask for them. we get more done that
way in keeping everything in order and sell to those who are looking to
buy the systems. It is a waste of time just to stand around in one area
until people ask to buy the systems.
Chris H. wrote:
quote:
> When you "look" are you asking the manager of the area? I was in a
> different state (actually in Hawaii, lucky me) on Wednesday and saw a fellow
> with a rather long face looking at empty shelves in a Wal-Mart. I asked him
> if he was looking for an Xbox 360, and he said he looks every day but there
> were none displayed in the cases. I asked him if he had asked the
> electronics section manager, and he said no. I suggested he should do that.
> It wasn't five minutes later the manager produced a Premium version from
> storage in the back, and a happy customer left the store grinning
> ear-to-ear. The manager said it was a lot easier on the staff to spend a
> couple minutes retrieving a unit when someone asks, than to staff the Xbox
> section with personnel/keys full-time.
| |
| Preston Crawford 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| On 2006-02-25, Chris H. <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote:
quote:
> When you "look" are you asking the manager of the area? I was in a
I think you're missing the point. My friend and I don't want to drive to
every retail store in the metro area. Nor do we want to call every store
in the metro area. After I've wasted (which I haven't, but could) say...
a month of my life looking for an Xbox 360 I'm just going to get a PS2
or wait for a PS3. When I'm asking to buy a product, the onus isn't on
me to find the product. The onus is on the supplier to make it available
if they want to sell it.
I'm not going to take up "Looking for Xbox 360" as a second job.
Preston
| |
| Chris H. 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| That's fine, too, Preston. Speak with the wallet, that's the enterprise
system. I have a feeling within a couple weeks you're going to see Xbox 360
machine wherever you look.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
"Preston Crawford" <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message
news:slrne01gg2.vtr.me@serpentor.cobrala...
quote:
> On 2006-02-25, Chris H. <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think you're missing the point. My friend and I don't want to drive to
> every retail store in the metro area. Nor do we want to call every store
> in the metro area. After I've wasted (which I haven't, but could) say...
> a month of my life looking for an Xbox 360 I'm just going to get a PS2
> or wait for a PS3. When I'm asking to buy a product, the onus isn't on
> me to find the product. The onus is on the supplier to make it available
> if they want to sell it.
>
> I'm not going to take up "Looking for Xbox 360" as a second job.
>
> Preston
| |
| Jeff Nowakowski 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| Why don't they just put them out on the shelf and let people pick them
up? That would save even more time, both for the customer and the
store. I know shops like Walmart keep games behind lock & key, and
shops like Best Buy keep them on display. Guess which shop I'll buy it
from?
I'm sure this is to discourage stealing, but the tradeoff is
inconvenience to the customer. No, it isn't a huge inconvenience, but
one I'd rather do without.
-Jeff
Joe wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> i use to work in a walmart like store in the midwest US area a few
> months ago and we did the same thing. It is easier to keep the Xbox
> 360's in the back and have people ask for them. we get more done that
> way in keeping everything in order and sell to those who are looking to
> buy the systems. It is a waste of time just to stand around in one area
> until people ask to buy the systems.
>
> Chris H. wrote:
>
| |
| Preston Crawford 2006-02-26, 8:01 pm |
| On 2006-02-26, Jeff Nowakowski <jeffno@ccs.neu.edu> wrote:
quote:
> Why don't they just put them out on the shelf and let people pick them
> up? That would save even more time, both for the customer and the
> store. I know shops like Walmart keep games behind lock & key, and
> shops like Best Buy keep them on display. Guess which shop I'll buy it
> from?
>
> I'm sure this is to discourage stealing, but the tradeoff is
> inconvenience to the customer. No, it isn't a huge inconvenience, but
> one I'd rather do without.
>
Same goes for games. If I have to wait for 20 minutes to get someone to
go open the glass case to even LOOK at a game, much less buy it, guess
where I buy my games from? The store where I can pick up and look at the
game.
Preston
| |
| Preston Crawford 2006-02-26, 8:01 pm |
| On 2006-02-25, Chris H. <winxpnews@hotmail.com> wrote:
quote:
> That's fine, too, Preston. Speak with the wallet, that's the enterprise
> system. I have a feeling within a couple weeks you're going to see Xbox 360
> machine wherever you look.
Well, people keep saying that and it keeps not happening. So I guess
we'll see.
Preston
| |
| Preston Crawford 2006-02-26, 8:01 pm |
| On 2006-02-25, Doug Jacobs <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
quote:
> Preston Crawford <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote:
>
>
> First off, Microsoft, a public company, has to answer to stockholders.
> This often means that any sort of common sense flies out the window.
Except having a successful launch should be common sense? i.e. One where
people can buy products.
quote:
> Second, it's not like there's a lot of competition in their primary markets
> of OS and Office productivity software. No one's really going to care if
> the next release of Windows is delayed a month or two.
It's apples and oranges, but what you say isn't necessarily true.
Microsoft rushes products to market all the time. Ever version of
Windows ends up with at least a couple dozen patches after a month on
the market and 3 - 6 service packs in its lifetime. So Microsoft is no
stranger to rushing products to market. With something like hardware,
though, you have to be able to get the product out there, which is
obviously more difficult in terms of manufacturing, etc. All the more
reason that they should have put together a sensible launch. One where I
didn't have to hunt down a 360. One where people didn't shout at my
local video game store employee because he STILL hasn't gotten his
pre-ordered 360 yet.
quote:
> In a real way, Microsoft didn't have a choice but to push forward with
> their original release plans, despite the horrible supply issues they
> would face. One way they can try to catch up to Sony was to release
Why? Why didn't they have a choice again? All getting it out for
Christmas did was create a brief buzz. I get that. But that buzz has by
now been replaced by anger and ill will.
quote:
>
> I'm not disagreeing, but I don't think they had a choice. The keystone of
> Microsoft's early launch was to have one uncontested holiday season. They
> would also have looked bad to their stockholders, which is a cardinal sin
> in the corporate world.
I think looking bad to your customers is an even worse sin. Microsoft
has plenty of products. Their shareholders would have understood.
quote:
> Microsoft has to get all the sales they can get before the PS3 ships
> because after that, it'll be a continual fight to get customers.
So selling units one at a time is a good strategy, even though you're
alienating loyal customers you gained with the original Xbox? I don't
get that.
quote:
>
> Yeah, a lot of people (myself included) made the Dreamcast comparison. It
> remains to be seen if the 360 is doomed to repeat the Dreamcast's history.
Remains to be seen. Doesn't look good now.
Preston
| |
| Anthony 2006-02-27, 7:39 pm |
| http://www.gamepro.com/microsoft/xb...ews/50950.shtml
They delayed the Australian launch, I suspect the supply problems will
dissappear in the US in a couple of weeks, more time to save up for games. I
believe they delayed the Australian launch so they could meet the demand of
the pre-orders.
| |
| Doug Jacobs 2006-02-27, 11:32 pm |
| Preston Crawford <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote:
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Except having a successful launch should be common sense? i.e. One where
> people can buy products.
Again, public company -> stock holders -> no common sense.
Microsoft didn't really have much of a choice. They were coming up on the
holiday deadline, they knew they were short on units, but what else could
they do?
1: Release on time, knowing you won't have enough and will have some
angry customers.
2: Delay the release until you have an adequate supply, miss the release,
anger ALL your customers and worse still, your stock holders, and worst of
all, your stock analyst will say not-so-good-things about your stock.
Either way, you'll have angry customers - but only until they find a 360.
However, slumping prices due to an irate stock analyst can take years to
reverse.
You could argue that option #2 makes more sense for the consumer, but
again you're forgetting that public companies do not make their decisions
based solely on what's best for their customers. In fact, many of their
decisions are what's WORSE for the customer.
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Why? Why didn't they have a choice again? All getting it out for
> Christmas did was create a brief buzz. I get that. But that buzz has by
> now been replaced by anger and ill will.
They'd already said they were going to release for Christmas.
If they didn't, not only would the customers have gotten angry, but they
would have also gotten chewed out by the stock analysts - which would have
lead to a drop in the stock price. With public companies, EVERYTHING is
about the stock price.
quote:
> I think looking bad to your customers is an even worse sin. Microsoft
> has plenty of products. Their shareholders would have understood.
It's quite the opposite really. Customers will only be angry until they
get a hold of a 360.
Shareholders (many of which are banks and mutual fund managers) don't care
about the 360 personally - they only care about the stock price. If
Microsoft chose to skip Christmas, they'd be seen as weak and the 360
would be seen as questionable. Both would cause the stock price to go
down - and that's not something shareholders want to see. Remember -
companies make decisions based on the stock price - NOT what's better for
the consumer.
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> So selling units one at a time is a good strategy, even though you're
> alienating loyal customers you gained with the original Xbox? I don't
> get that.
Well, even if they only sold 1 unit, that'd be 1 less annoyed customer
than if they waited ~3-4 months before shipping at all.
And again, Microsoft is a lot more afraid of its stock holders and
analysts than its customers.
Understand that I'm not defending Microsoft in any way here. They failed
to plan properly, and ended up having to choose between a miserable, but
on-time release, and a rescheduled release that would have missed the all
important holiday shopping season.
Perhaps Microsoft thought that manufacturing 360s would be like the
original Xbox but they didn't count on the low chip yields from their
customized processors. Worse still, Microsoft didn't make this
information public until right before they started shipping units - a move
that left both customers and retailers in a lurch.
At any rate, they had a poor holiday season, and continue to have poor
sales - numbers-wise anyways. They've already missed one milestone of 3
million units shipped worldwide. It remains to be seen if they can make
that up, much less hit 10 million by this November.
| |
| slapkicksy 2006-02-27, 11:32 pm |
|
"Preston Crawford" <me@prestoncrawford.com> wrote in message
news:slrne0156t.vkv.me@serpentor.cobrala...
quote:
> On 2006-02-25, Paul Smith <Paul@nospam.windowsresource.net> wrote:
>
> Where I am (the US) they're still a trickle. Like a couple of units
> every 2 weeks or a month at most stores.
>
> Preston
Here in the UK (in canterbury at least) There are shops with them in stock.
Either they arn't moving becuase people think that they arn't in stock, or
for some other reason, but they can be found.
It's still taking to much work to get them though, and I can't imagine the
sitation in America, but it will get better as more units are made over the
year.
--
From the mind of Andrew Kicks
Everything in the world has bias,
even the globe leans to one side
xboxLive:Gamic (PD0, Kameo, HexicHD)
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