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Home > Archive > Xbox forum > February 2006 > ATI Confirms Next Generation PC GPU "Leverages XBOX 360 Design"
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ATI Confirms Next Generation PC GPU "Leverages XBOX 360 Design"
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| Air Raid 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
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ATI Confirms Next Generation "Leverages XBOX 360 Design"
22-Feb-2006, 21:54.59 Reporter : Dave Baumann
At a recent analyst session ATI's Senior VP of PC Business, Rick
Bergman, has confirmed that their next generation of PC graphics
products will feature much of the technology developed for "Xenos",
ATI's XBOX 360 graphics chip. We've surmised that this is likely be
the case previously, given that Xenos utilises a unified shader
architecture at the hardware level, with both Pixel Shaders and Vertex
shaders utilising the same ALU resources it becomes a ripe time to
implement it with DirectX10 unifying the vertex and pixel shader
programming capabilities in the API.
Vertex and pixel processing have previously always been separate
hardware functions, though vertex processing moved from a software
based solution to hardware with the introduction of NVIDIA's GeForce
256 and has subsequently got closer to the pixel processing capability
with each revision of DirectX Shader Model, to the point where
DirextX10 will should dictate the same programming capabilities across
both. Even with this being the case there is nothing to suggest that
the hardware has to be unified for processing as pixel operations
generally have to hide greater latencies than vertex operations thanks
to the greater use of texturing in the pipeline. However, Xenos's
design has attempted to remove the texture latency issues from shader
programmes by creating a highly threaded design that separates texture
instructions from ALU instructions, allowing multiple shader batches to
run concurrently, and so it comes as no surprise that ATI should adopt
this architecture for the PC, seeing as the investment has already been
made.
......................................................................................................................................
http://beyond3d.com/#news28611
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| John Lewis 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| On 22 Feb 2006 14:19:38 -0800, "Air Raid" <AirRaidJet@gmail.com>
wrote:
quote:
>
>
>.....................................................................................................................................
>ATI Confirms Next Generation "Leverages XBOX 360 Design"
>22-Feb-2006, 21:54.59 Reporter : Dave Baumann
>
.... blah. blah, blah... (rest deleted)....
.....as reporter obviously regurgitates meaningless ATi marketing
blurb.
John Lewis
| |
| Thomas A. Horsley 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| >ATI Confirms Next Generation "Leverages XBOX 360 Design"
quote:
>22-Feb-2006, 21:54.59 Reporter : Dave Baumann
Translation (as I predicted when the ATI/MS deal was first announced):
ATI is gonna be devoting all their resources to the XBOX, so PC hardware and
drivers will only get whatever improvements trickle down from XBOX work :-).
--[vbcol=seagreen]
email: Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net icbm: Delray Beach, FL |
<URL:http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley> Free Software and Politics <<==+
| |
| arcanastream@yahoo.com 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| Considering the tens of millions of Xbox 360s that are likely to sell
(eventually), can you blame ATI for being Xbox-centric? I doubt they
sell tens of millions of their $500 graphic cards for PCs.
| |
| drocket 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| On 22 Feb 2006 19:50:55 -0800, arcanastream@yahoo.com wrote:
quote:
>Considering the tens of millions of Xbox 360s that are likely to sell
>(eventually), can you blame ATI for being Xbox-centric? I doubt they
>sell tens of millions of their $500 graphic cards for PCs.
You say that like they're making $500/unit from the XBox 360. Its
probably a lot closer to $100-$150 per XBox. They probably make more
profit on a $500 video card than they do on 50 XBox 360s. At the same
time, though, they'll probably sell 1000 XBox 360's for every $500
video card (since only a few overly-wealthy geeks will blow that much
cash just to get 4% more FPS in Doom 3...)
Anyway, this announcement isn't anything particularly special:
they've developed a marginally faster product and are trying to hype
it (in this case, by tying it into the hype generated by the XBox 360
launch.) In other news, the sun rose today, and north is still in the
opposite direction of south.
| |
| John Lewis 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 06:30:28 GMT, drocket <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote:
quote:
>On 22 Feb 2006 19:50:55 -0800, arcanastream@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>You say that like they're making $500/unit from the XBox 360. Its
>probably a lot closer to $100-$150 per XBox.
More like $20-$30 max. per Xbox360. They have only licensed the
right to replicate the design, are not responsible for silicon
production at all. and no doubt have negotiated a per-unit license
fee with M$$.
M$$ finances, schedules and is entirely responsible for the
manufacturing builds of the GPU thru TSMC. ATi may be hauled in to
tweak the design if design-related yield problems appear, and they and
IBM probably have an upfront multimillion$$ monetary incentive to
re-cast the Xbox360 GPU and CPU designs in 65nm ASAP to reduce
the power-consumption.
The current version of the Xbox360 runs too hot internally for its
package size, with most of the heat being generated by the CPU
and GPU. Once the internal heat-sinks clog with household junk
(courtesy of the 2 internal fans) , the box will overheat - there is
no way of accessing these heat-sinks for cleaning without special
tools and voiding the M$$ warranty. The DVD-drive already runs too hot
and temporarily discolors discs after several hours of continuous
3D-gaming use of the Xbox360, since the stupid Xbox360 hardware
designers jammed the GPU and CPU heatsinks right up against the
DVD-drive.
John Lewis
quote:
>and
> probably make more
>profit on a $500 video card than they do on 50 XBox 360s. At the same
>time, though, they'll probably sell 1000 XBox 360's for every $500
>video card (since only a few overly-wealthy geeks will blow that much
>cash just to get 4% more FPS in Doom 3...)
>
>Anyway, this announcement isn't anything particularly special:
>they've developed a marginally faster product and are trying to hype
>it (in this case, by tying it into the hype generated by the XBox 360
>launch.) In other news, the sun rose today, and north is still in the
>opposite direction of south.
| |
| Blig Merk 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| arcanastream@yahoo.com wrote:
quote:
> Considering the tens of millions of Xbox 360s that are likely to sell
> (eventually), can you blame ATI for being Xbox-centric? I doubt they
XFLop only sold a little over 20 million over 5 years and the xflop
three-shitty is off to a slower start with no flag-rallying trademark
game so far and nothing on the horizon. The xflop three-shitty is
basically turning into a PC-alternative PC port-box which might not be
a good place to be in by next year.
quote:
> sell tens of millions of their $500 graphic cards for PCs.
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/01/18/nvidia_sli_sales/
Nvidia sells 9 million SLI graphics processors
18 Jan 2006
| |
| Blig Merk 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| Leverages to nothing. The X1900XL has the 48 shader processors and it
is just barely faster in a few benchmarks than the 7800GTX which has
been out since fall last year. The only game that is significantly
faster with the X1900XL is FEAR and there is a lot of speculation that
is just due to the shader coding used in FEAR. The 7900GTX with unified
pixel vertex pipes comes out in a few weeks and it will shove X1900XL
back to being just a contender again. The shader processor path
apporach is not proving to be any big advantage and looks like it might
be weaker in the months ahead.
| |
| XBOXOWNZ 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| Correct. But at least its a fairly major change unlike the short hops
ATI and NVIDIA seem to be making with PC GPU's at the moment. XBOX is
going to be a good thing for PC gaming.
| |
| XBOXOWNZ 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| AT LEAST ATI ARE TRYING NEW THINGS UNLIKE NVIDIA WHICH JUST INCREASES
CLOCK SPEED OR ADDS ANOTHER SHADER. EVENTUALLY NVIDIA WILL LAG FAR
BEHIND LIKE IT DID A FEW YEARS AGO. YOUR JUST A NVIDIA FAN BOY WITH NO
REAL FACTS ONLY HYPE.
| |
| Zimmy 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| I can just see Blig Jerk sitting in front of his PC, seeing the latest
Sony PS3 delays news with tears streaming down his face...
"Damn you Sony! You have forsaken me!"
I wonder if the PS3 was released was released last Nov and Xbox 360 was
delayed, would he show the same restraint about the news???
| |
| John Lewis 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| On 23 Feb 2006 12:47:05 -0800, "XBOXOWNZ" <admin@cellsounds.co.nz>
wrote:
quote:
>AT LEAST ATI ARE TRYING NEW THINGS UNLIKE NVIDIA WHICH JUST INCREASES
>CLOCK SPEED OR ADDS ANOTHER SHADER. EVENTUALLY NVIDIA WILL LAG FAR
>BEHIND LIKE IT DID A FEW YEARS AGO. YOUR JUST A NVIDIA FAN BOY WITH NO
>REAL FACTS ONLY HYPE.
>
Er, did you accidentally drop your beer-bottle on the Shift key ?
Or did you just misplace your spectacles ? Techno-twaddle anyway.
John Lewis
| |
| Air Raid 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| last year Microsoft said they're working on year-2 and year-3 versions
of Xbox 360.
I'll wait for the year-2 version to come out. hopefully 65nm chips and
re-arranged layout of the board & components will make it run
flawlessly and last.
I'm guessing the year-3 version will probably be a futher
cost-reduction of a near-perfected year-2 design. okay I am just
speculating on that. I'll be watching carefully for word of the year-2
console arrival.
John Lewis wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 06:30:28 GMT, drocket <drocket@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> More like $20-$30 max. per Xbox360. They have only licensed the
> right to replicate the design, are not responsible for silicon
> production at all. and no doubt have negotiated a per-unit license
> fee with M$$.
>
> M$$ finances, schedules and is entirely responsible for the
> manufacturing builds of the GPU thru TSMC. ATi may be hauled in to
> tweak the design if design-related yield problems appear, and they and
> IBM probably have an upfront multimillion$$ monetary incentive to
> re-cast the Xbox360 GPU and CPU designs in 65nm ASAP to reduce
> the power-consumption.
>
> The current version of the Xbox360 runs too hot internally for its
> package size, with most of the heat being generated by the CPU
> and GPU. Once the internal heat-sinks clog with household junk
> (courtesy of the 2 internal fans) , the box will overheat - there is
> no way of accessing these heat-sinks for cleaning without special
> tools and voiding the M$$ warranty. The DVD-drive already runs too hot
> and temporarily discolors discs after several hours of continuous
> 3D-gaming use of the Xbox360, since the stupid Xbox360 hardware
> designers jammed the GPU and CPU heatsinks right up against the
> DVD-drive.
>
> John Lewis
>
| |
| Tim O 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| On 22 Feb 2006 14:19:38 -0800, "Air Raid" <AirRaidJet@gmail.com>
wrote:
quote:
>...................................................................................................................................
>ATI Confirms Next Generation "Leverages XBOX 360 Design"
>22-Feb-2006, 21:54.59 Reporter : Dave Baumann
>
Snip very so-so specs.
Wait until NVidia launches their new 9900XPSL GTS with twin vertex
real time gigashaders, intercooled redundent fast jacket polymer
coating, radiant revision real time dynamic flabbergasters and dual
exhausts.
Its so fast, they clocked it against reality and the graphics card was
faster.
| |
| video-game dude 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| whatever, Nvidiot.
| |
| Phil Da Lick! 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| Air Raid wrote:
quote:
>
> .....................................................................................................................................
> ATI Confirms Next Generation "Leverages XBOX 360 Design"
> 22-Feb-2006, 21:54.59 Reporter : Dave Baumann
>
> At a recent analyst session ATI's Senior VP of PC Business, Rick
> Bergman, has confirmed that their next generation of PC graphics
> products will feature much of the technology developed for "Xenos",
> ATI's XBOX 360 graphics chip. We've surmised that this is likely be
> the case previously, given that Xenos utilises a unified shader
> architecture at the hardware level, with both Pixel Shaders and Vertex
> shaders utilising the same ALU resources it becomes a ripe time to
> implement it with DirectX10 unifying the vertex and pixel shader
> programming capabilities in the API.
>
> Vertex and pixel processing have previously always been separate
> hardware functions, though vertex processing moved from a software
> based solution to hardware with the introduction of NVIDIA's GeForce
> 256 and has subsequently got closer to the pixel processing capability
> with each revision of DirectX Shader Model, to the point where
> DirextX10 will should dictate the same programming capabilities across
> both. Even with this being the case there is nothing to suggest that
> the hardware has to be unified for processing as pixel operations
> generally have to hide greater latencies than vertex operations thanks
> to the greater use of texturing in the pipeline. However, Xenos's
> design has attempted to remove the texture latency issues from shader
> programmes by creating a highly threaded design that separates texture
> instructions from ALU instructions, allowing multiple shader batches to
> run concurrently, and so it comes as no surprise that ATI should adopt
> this architecture for the PC, seeing as the investment has already been
> made.
> .....................................................................................................................................
>
> http://beyond3d.com/#news28611
>
big deal - they price their r&d into the xb360 design budget.
| |
| Thomas A. Horsley 2006-02-25, 10:31 pm |
| >I'm guessing the year-3 version will probably be a futher
quote:
>cost-reduction of a near-perfected year-2 design. okay I am just
>speculating on that.
The thing I find most fascinating about all the high end game consoles is
they way they are morphing into general purpose PCs with different optional
bits and add-ons available.
I thought the whole idea of the console was to avoid the exponential
explosion of different configuration options so game developers could count
on testing on the exact same configuration end users will play on.
Now they are re-introducing the problem consoles were created to solve.
Pretty soon they'll have all the same problems with release engineering
and testing again and gamers will have to wait for the 147th patch to be
released before their games will work :-).
--[vbcol=seagreen]
email: Tom.Horsley@worldnet.att.net icbm: Delray Beach, FL |
<URL:http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley> Free Software and Politics <<==+
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