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Revised Xbox console?
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| Kendrick Kerwin Chua 2005-03-11, 6:25 pm |
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I've been purposefully avoiding hype about the next iteration of
Microsoft's game console just on principle... I'll buy it if there are
games I want to play, and not based on advertising or specifications.
Having said that, I think that all the hype might be drowning out any
discussion about possible hardware revision of the original Xbox.
As far back as the Atari 2600, manufacturers would improve and shrink
their hardware, making it more affordable so that a wider consumer base
could take advantage of an established game library. Work out the bugs,
consolidate semiconductors, decrease the number of moving parts, separate
the power supply from the rest of the unit, sell it for cheap. A hardware
revision of this type has occurred for just about every successful game
console on the market since 1987.
Any word of whether this will occur for the current Xbox? Something
smaller wtih a flip-top DVD drive? Power connector that might be fed by a
car adapter? Maybe a laptop-spec mini-IDE hard drive that's impact
resistant and generates no heat? Silicone-covered motherboard to prevent
modification attempts? 
-KKC, who likes to own one of every console variant if he can help it.
Wake me when they fix the bugs in the slimline PS2 though.
--
--S.S.B. is the code name for America's daring, highly | kendrick @io .com
trained special mission force. Its purpose: to |
defend human freedom against al-Qaeda, a ruthless | Please don't use
terrorist organization determined to rule the world! | eBay. Ask me why.
| |
| Dr Gordon Crowbar 2005-03-12, 6:23 pm |
| Most other consoles are custom hardware. The Xbox is not.
The components in an Xbox cost more than the actual selling price, so I
wouldn't expect the components in the smaller case to cost less either.
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| Kendrick Kerwin Chua 2005-03-12, 6:23 pm |
| In article <dbKdnRITCKFiy67fRVnyhw@pipex.net>,
Dr Gordon Crowbar <Justin@c.com> wrote:
quote:
>Most other consoles are custom hardware. The Xbox is not.
>
>The components in an Xbox cost more than the actual selling price, so I
>wouldn't expect the components in the smaller case to cost less either.
Isn't this true of most game consoles though? The manufacturer takes a
loss on the hardware in order to get it into people's hands, and then
recoup the cost in the software. Even in revised hardware, the objective
is to get a lower-cost console into the hands of people with less
disposable income. And given that the Xbox is based around x86 Intel
hardware, you would think that the idea of consolidating and shrinking the
components would be easier and not harder than with custom parts.
On the other hand, there is the example of the Dreamcast. If anything, the
Hitachi chipset and graphics gear was even *more* off the shelf than the
stuff in the Xbox, and the Dreamcast never saw any kind of significant
hardware revision. On the other hand, that didn't stop third parties from
releasing their own compatible hardware (like the Treamcast with the
integrated LCD screen.) Given how well-understood the Xbox motherboard is
at this point, I'm surprised that there aren't bootleg consoles available.
Wow, that was quite an intellectual journey to point B, wasn't it? All
I want to do is stick an Xbox in my car that doesn't have a sliding disc
tray or a cheap hard drive, and I don't want to resort to custom parts and
modding... especially if I can also get my Linux PPP-server-on-a-chip to
work with my cellular carrier and a free dial-up Internet service. Can you
say 'Mobile Xbox Live Machine' five times fast?
-KKC, who was going to do this with a Dreamcast, but you know what
happened to all the online games for that. And I'd rather not have to fake
a Verisign certificate in order to run my own Phantasy Star Online server.
--
--S.S.B. is the code name for America's daring, highly | kendrick @io .com
trained special mission force. Its purpose: to |
defend human freedom against al-Qaeda, a ruthless | Please don't use
terrorist organization determined to rule the world! | eBay. Ask me why.
| |
| Doug Jacobs 2005-03-15, 10:18 pm |
| Kendrick Kerwin Chua <kendrick@eris.io.com> wrote:
quote:
> Isn't this true of most game consoles though? The manufacturer takes a
> loss on the hardware in order to get it into people's hands, and then
> recoup the cost in the software. Even in revised hardware, the objective
> is to get a lower-cost console into the hands of people with less
> disposable income. And given that the Xbox is based around x86 Intel
> hardware, you would think that the idea of consolidating and shrinking the
> components would be easier and not harder than with custom parts.
The problem with Xbox is that Microsoft doesn't own the components in the
console. Sony could go back and redesign their chips to make them
smaller, or even combine the chips together, therefor allowing the console
itself to shrink while being lower in cost to manufacture.
The other problem with Xbox is that the HDD can't be shrunk without
raising the price.
About the only thing Microsoft can do is drop the price of their platform
as the components themselves drop in price - which (I assume) they've
done. However I don't think we're going to see $50 Xbox1's that are at a
break-even point for Microsoft.
There's also the trickier part about projected sales. It obviously
wouldn't make sense to pump more money into an older console to redesign
it if it's not going to bring in more sales. Obviously Sony thinks the
costs of creating and building the slimline PS2 will be offset by the
increase in sales of hardware and software.
quote:
> On the other hand, there is the example of the Dreamcast. If anything, the
> Hitachi chipset and graphics gear was even *more* off the shelf than the
> stuff in the Xbox, and the Dreamcast never saw any kind of significant
> hardware revision. On the other hand, that didn't stop third parties from
> releasing their own compatible hardware (like the Treamcast with the
> integrated LCD screen.) Given how well-understood the Xbox motherboard is
> at this point, I'm surprised that there aren't bootleg consoles available.
I think that has more to do with the fact that Microsoft would use it deep
pockets to immediatly send anyone doing something like that into lawsuit
hell. Even then, doesn't the Treamcast just use the guts from a DreamCast
that have been crammed into a different case?
quote:
> Wow, that was quite an intellectual journey to point B, wasn't it? All
> I want to do is stick an Xbox in my car that doesn't have a sliding disc
> tray or a cheap hard drive, and I don't want to resort to custom parts and
> modding... especially if I can also get my Linux PPP-server-on-a-chip to
> work with my cellular carrier and a free dial-up Internet service. Can you
> say 'Mobile Xbox Live Machine' five times fast?
Unfortunatly, I don't see another way to do what you want without doing
some customization work. With Xbox2 so close, I doubt we'll see a
redesigned Xbox1. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft tries to
EOL Xbox1 as soon as Xbox2 hits the shelves.
| |
| Kendrick Kerwin Chua 2005-03-15, 10:18 pm |
| In article <113esdolll8so0b@corp.supernews.com>,
Doug Jacobs <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
quote:
>Kendrick Kerwin Chua <kendrick@eris.io.com> wrote:
>
>
>The problem with Xbox is that Microsoft doesn't own the components in the
>console. Sony could go back and redesign their chips to make them
>smaller, or even combine the chips together, therefor allowing the console
>itself to shrink while being lower in cost to manufacture.
I'll concede that the licensing agreements between Microsoft and Intel
(and whatever graphics manufacturer they're both sleeping with at the
time) probably don't permit re-use of any instructions in a custom chip.
But for the sake of a counter argument, I'll bring up the idea that Sega
successfully convinced Motorola and Yamaha to give up their code to be
part of consolidated chips. So that's an example of a console manufacturer
that doesn't own all the components and was still able to produce a low-
cost platform.
Back to the original point though, Sega has very intimate business
relationships with these guys, to the point that they are also allowed to
use Sega's property and code. So it's not likely that Microsoft has hashed
out this kind of mutually productive agreement with Intel.
quote:
>The other problem with Xbox is that the HDD can't be shrunk without
>raising the price.
Given how easy it is to fake an IDE interface with software, I imagine
that a low-cost hard drive substitute could be engineered. But this would
introduce compatibility problems, just as the PS1 emulation in the PS2
does.
<snippetty-do about Kendrick wanting to do fun stuff with a small XBox>
quote:
>Unfortunatly, I don't see another way to do what you want without doing
>some customization work. With Xbox2 so close, I doubt we'll see a
>redesigned Xbox1. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft tries to
>EOL Xbox1 as soon as Xbox2 hits the shelves.
As long as we're talking about business and not technology, this surprises
me some. If Microsoft doesn't feel like anybody benefits from the
continued presence of the original Xbox on the market, then they're really
not learning the lessons of the video game industry. Check out Majesco,
which is now a leading publisher and localizer. When they first got
noticed, they were licensing and reprinting Genesis and Super Nintendo
games. In like, 1998 they were doing that. Even now, every Electronics
Boutique in my backwards little town has Genesis and Super Nintendo games
on the shelf still.
I'm talking too much now, so I'll just wrap up saying this: I shouldn't be
surprised that Microsoft would prefer everybody upgrade to the newest
technology as soon as it's available. But if that turns out not to be the
case, then I'll be pleased and ready to admit that I'm wrong.
-KKC, who wonders if it's worth getting into Apple's evil master database
just for an outside chance of winning a free iPod. And the worst part is,
I just want a free document storage solution with a firewire port.
--
--S.S.B. is the code name for America's daring, highly | kendrick @io .com
trained special mission force. Its purpose: to |
defend human freedom against al-Qaeda, a ruthless | Please don't use
terrorist organization determined to rule the world! | eBay. Ask me why.
| |
| Jan Lucas 2005-03-16, 6:59 pm |
| Kendrick Kerwin Chua schrieb:
quote:
>
> Given how easy it is to fake an IDE interface with software, I imagine
> that a low-cost hard drive substitute could be engineered. But this would
> introduce compatibility problems, just as the PS1 emulation in the PS2
> does.
The interface is not the problem, but you would still need a way to
store the 8 GB. 8gb flash would be too expensive, so some kind of HDD is
really the only way. And while it maybe possible to use a 1.8" hdd in a
small xbox now, that would be much more expensive than the old 3.5" hdd.
I doubt there is a market for a small $200 xbox with xbox2 being just
around the corner.
quote:
> As long as we're talking about business and not technology, this surprises
> me some. If Microsoft doesn't feel like anybody benefits from the
> continued presence of the original Xbox on the market, then they're really
> not learning the lessons of the video game industry. Check out Majesco,
> which is now a leading publisher and localizer. When they first got
> noticed, they were licensing and reprinting Genesis and Super Nintendo
> games. In like, 1998 they were doing that. Even now, every Electronics
> Boutique in my backwards little town has Genesis and Super Nintendo games
> on the shelf still.
I think Nintendo and Sony can do that, but the XBox was never a console
that appealed to that crowd.
Jan
| |
| Doug Jacobs 2005-03-16, 10:21 pm |
| Jan Lucas <jan@lucas-berlin.de> wrote:
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> The interface is not the problem, but you would still need a way to
> store the 8 GB. 8gb flash would be too expensive, so some kind of HDD is
> really the only way. And while it maybe possible to use a 1.8" hdd in a
> small xbox now, that would be much more expensive than the old 3.5" hdd.
> I doubt there is a market for a small $200 xbox with xbox2 being just
> around the corner.
I wasn't even thinking of the microdrives - which are way too expensive to
use in a redesigned XBox - but of 2.5" laptop drives. They are much
thinner and lighter than their desktop counterparts, but lack some of the
performance (lower RPM, mainly) I don't know if that would affect the
XBox or not. Even so, desktop drives are still the cheapest per GB, so
again you come back to my original assertion that you won't really be able
to shrink the HDD component, which is a considerable percentage of the
XBox's mass.
Now you could do things like take the power convertor out, like the
PS2slim did. That would save same space. And you could probably shrink
the motherboard a little by making some of the other chips/components
smaller, but I unless you can redo the processors, any of the benefits I
mentioned are going to be very minor.
I'm sure that Microsoft *could* get Intel and nVidea to redesign their
respective chips, or maybe even do a collaborative project to combine the
two cores together onto a single die, but it's going to be expensive and I
don't think the resulting product is really going to be all that cheaper
to produce due to the high development costs.
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