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Home > Archive > Xbox forum > October 2005 > 360 less powerfull / more difficult to program than PS3...?
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360 less powerfull / more difficult to program than PS3...?
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| After reading stuff about several 360 games I'm wondering...maybe there is
some truth in talks about PS3 being more powerful...think about it. MGS4 is
already running on 60 fps, and the developers are still using beta kits
(actually, I don't think I've heard of any game for PS3 running on 30 fps).
Think about it, these guys have still 6-9 months before PS3 comes out!
Yet on 360 several developers seem to have difficulties getting games to run
on 60 fps (PGR3), and they're running out of time!
Yes, I'm gonna get 360 when it comes out, but it doesn't look to good so
far. Getting a "next generation" machine that can't get past 30 fps...no, it
doesn't look to good at all.
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| Paul Smith 2005-09-22, 8:37 pm |
| "msgs" <mikael.sillman@elisanet.POISTA.fi> wrote in message
news:dgukkt$chd$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
quote:
> After reading stuff about several 360 games I'm wondering...maybe there is
> some truth in talks about PS3 being more powerful...think about it. MGS4
> is already running on 60 fps, and the developers are still using beta kits
> (actually, I don't think I've heard of any game for PS3 running on 30
> fps). Think about it, these guys have still 6-9 months before PS3 comes
> out!
>
> Yet on 360 several developers seem to have difficulties getting games to
> run on 60 fps (PGR3), and they're running out of time!
>
> Yes, I'm gonna get 360 when it comes out, but it doesn't look to good so
> far. Getting a "next generation" machine that can't get past 30 fps...no,
> it doesn't look to good at all.
The difference with the Xbox 360 is they're actually making games now. Of
course some old man sat in a building would run at 60fps, the character was
Quake 4 graphics with a higher resolution texture on his face, that would be
a fun game to play, sitting in a building. If you actually looked at the
screenshots it actually didn't look that great.
--
Paul Smith,
Yeovil, UK.
http://www.windowsresource.net/
http://www.xbox360degrees.com/
*Remove 'nospam.' to reply by e-mail*
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| Maybe so. But getting PGR3 and Need For Speed for "next gen" with 30 fps
surely does suck. And no, AA and motion blur does not fix that.
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| How not, its not noticable, aslong as theres no slow down, it wont be a
problem as they human eye can only process 24fps at 60hz.
Anyway if you think thats bad atleast Bizarre and Microsoft are being
honest with us, when you have Sony who create a pre-rendered game
trailer in Killzone 2 at just 5fps then speed it up to 60fps and your
questioning Microsoft?
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| Silvio3d italy 2005-09-23, 3:33 am |
| > problem as they human eye can only process 24fps at 60hz.
???????
human eye see from 50 to 55 by medical specification, 24 is the cinema
format that is the minimal fps to see a smooth video.
a banal dimostration is that the different from 30 to 60 fps in a game is
like the day and the night
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| David Parkes 2005-09-23, 7:07 am |
| What you fail to realise is if it is hard to progam games for a console then
over the life of the particular console you will see vast improvements in
Graphics because developers learn new ways to manipulate the hardware.
Example being the xbox and the ps2. The original xbox was hard to write
games for, but over the four years its been out you see a massive difference
in game graphics. Whereas the ps2 it was easy to program for so there were
never much differences between game graphics over its life.
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| Spaceman 2005-09-23, 7:07 am |
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"David Parkes" <wibble@wobble.com> wrote in message
news:OInmwDCwFHA.3548@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
quote:
> What you fail to realise is if it is hard to progam games for a console
> then over the life of the particular console you will see vast
> improvements in Graphics because developers learn new ways to manipulate
> the hardware. Example being the xbox and the ps2. The original xbox was
> hard to write games for, but over the four years its been out you see a
> massive difference in game graphics. Whereas the ps2 it was easy to
> program for so there were never much differences between game graphics
> over its life.
>
what on earth are you talking about? the ps2 was much more difficult to
program for than the xbox. in fact, the learning curve has been so great,
you are only just now seeing games that take advantage of the console, like
god of war and gt4.
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| Spaceman 2005-09-23, 7:07 am |
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"msgs" <mikael.sillman@elisanet.POISTA.fi> wrote in message
news:dgukkt$chd$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
quote:
> After reading stuff about several 360 games I'm wondering...maybe there is
> some truth in talks about PS3 being more powerful...think about it. MGS4
> is already running on 60 fps, and the developers are still using beta kits
> (actually, I don't think I've heard of any game for PS3 running on 30
> fps). Think about it, these guys have still 6-9 months before PS3 comes
> out!
>
> Yet on 360 several developers seem to have difficulties getting games to
> run on 60 fps (PGR3), and they're running out of time!
>
> Yes, I'm gonna get 360 when it comes out, but it doesn't look to good so
> far. Getting a "next generation" machine that can't get past 30 fps...no,
> it doesn't look to good at all.
Wow, you guys really need to watch the call of duty 2 interview if you
haven't already. it's very comforting hearing many of the things they had to
say, and to hear them tell you that they enthusiastically tackled the
challenge of taking advantage of all three cores, AND that with all of this
amazing action, multitude of characters and more advanced AI, 4-5 times more
scripted events and all the new graphical effects, it's running at 60
FPS.... now that is what i like to hear about next gen. these guys are
great, and i just wish that more developers had their hearts put into making
a beautiful game like these people! excellent interview. The very few games
like this and Kameo are what is giving me faith that things are going to get
better with time. Not many developers have learned how to take advantage of
all three cores. Many games are only running on one, and COD2 is proof of
what can happen when you are able to get past this initial learning curve.
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| David Parkes 2005-09-23, 7:07 am |
| Ok I must have seriously bad eyes. They all look the same to me. Tekken
Tag --> Tekken 5 Look identical. GT3 --> GT4 I cannot see any difference.
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| -True, but remeber that PGR was running 60fps, but PGR2 was 30fps. And yes,
there was a huge difference between the smoothness of the graphics. Of
course PGR2 looked better, but PGR played better.
And getting a next gen console and games at 30 fps (when the old gen was
capable at 60) is like getting a new video card for PC and having your fps
on games being 50% lower. No, that is not acceptable. I'dd rather have PGR3
at 60fps with 40k polygons per car than 30fps with 80k polygons per car.
People who say there's no difference between 30 vs 60 should have their eye
sight checked.
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"Spaceman" <sonofzeus26@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9yQYe.1210$uA6.1098@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
quote:
>
> "msgs" <mikael.sillman@elisanet.POISTA.fi> wrote in message
> news:dgukkt$chd$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
>
> Wow, you guys really need to watch the call of duty 2 interview if you
> haven't already. it's very comforting hearing many of the things they had
> to say, and to hear them tell you that they enthusiastically tackled the
> challenge of taking advantage of all three cores, AND that with all of
> this amazing action, multitude of characters and more advanced AI, 4-5
> times more scripted events and all the new graphical effects, it's running
> at 60 FPS.... now that is what i like to hear about next gen. these guys
> are great, and i just wish that more developers had their hearts put into
> making a beautiful game like these people! excellent interview. The very
> few games like this and Kameo are what is giving me faith that things are
> going to get better with time. Not many developers have learned how to
> take advantage of all three cores. Many games are only running on one, and
> COD2 is proof of what can happen when you are able to get past this
> initial learning curve.
>
The big question is has anyone in here seen any of the xbox 360 games
running in their final form?
Until we have the console and the new games running on full size proper TV's
or HDTV (I wish I had one) then none of us know what the hell the games will
look like.
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"David Parkes" <wibble@wobble.com> wrote in message
news:OInmwDCwFHA.3548@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
quote:
> What you fail to realise is if it is hard to progam games for a console
> then over the life of the particular console you will see vast
> improvements in Graphics because developers learn new ways to manipulate
> the hardware. Example being the xbox and the ps2. The original xbox was
> hard to write games for, but over the four years its been out you see a
> massive difference in game graphics. Whereas the ps2 it was easy to
> program for so there were never much differences between game graphics
> over its life.
>
A good example of graphics development you are talking about on the xbox is
the Splinter Cell games.There is a big difference between the first Splinter
Cell and the latest one.
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| Spaceman 2005-09-23, 8:33 pm |
|
"David Parkes" <wibble@wobble.com> wrote in message
news:%23DRqTfCwFHA.2008@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
quote:
> Ok I must have seriously bad eyes. They all look the same to me. Tekken
> Tag --> Tekken 5 Look identical. GT3 --> GT4 I cannot see any difference.
>
>
Ok, so you have a good point there
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| MartinSPT 2005-10-09, 7:34 pm |
| About being more powerful, not so sure on that, even though Sony has some
time to catch up. Their current specs can't do the bandwidth required to get
the same performance the XBox 360 will have.
As for game development, this is what kind of 'made' the XBox, as the
Microsoft experience in DirectX and PC gaming technologies are currently the
'biggest' in the world, and Microsoft knew a lot about the challenges
developers faced going in to game development.
Go do some research on XNA and even older DirectX technologies, you will see
that Microsoft was the first to offer 'ease of development' without
sacrificing performance.
It is the ease of development for the Xbox and Xbox 360 that has brought a
lot of companies over to the Microsoft side of the fence.
Even with the older XBox, it was much easier to create a high level game for
the XBox and PC at the same time - that is why a lot of the PC games were
ported to the XBox and the other way around as well, as they adhere to some
of the basic set of programming models setup by the richness of the DirectX
and now the XNA gaming development tools Microsoft has provided.
Microsoft may not be the best at everything, but they do know 'development'
and developers and tools for developers. This is where they have always
shined in the past, and as a side note, help make Windows so popular, because
it was far easier to create applications for Windows than any other OS in the
early 1990s.
So don't worry about the XBox 360 being harder to create games for, it just
isn't reality, and if you visit with the game developers that are making
games for XBox 360 and PS3, you will find the same complaint from the PS3
developers, "The PS3 ahs power, but the tools to process and manage the multi
channeling conecpts of the Cell processor is not quite so easy.
Instead of game design, they are spending time and money on how and when to
pipe data to various parts of the PS3. On the XBox 360, this level of concern
is pretty much already handled by Microsoft, and they can put more time into
the logic and graphics of the game, then trying to squeeze performance out of
the hardware.
Martin
-----------------
"msgs" wrote:
quote:
> After reading stuff about several 360 games I'm wondering...maybe there is
> some truth in talks about PS3 being more powerful...think about it. MGS4 is
> already running on 60 fps, and the developers are still using beta kits
> (actually, I don't think I've heard of any game for PS3 running on 30 fps).
> Think about it, these guys have still 6-9 months before PS3 comes out!
>
> Yet on 360 several developers seem to have difficulties getting games to run
> on 60 fps (PGR3), and they're running out of time!
>
> Yes, I'm gonna get 360 when it comes out, but it doesn't look to good so
> far. Getting a "next generation" machine that can't get past 30 fps...no, it
> doesn't look to good at all.
>
>
>
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