Xbox forum - Xbox HDD question

Author

Xbox HDD question

luvthegame

2004-12-09, 5:49 pm

If i put a new hard drive in the xbox does it have to be
formatted any special way?

Kendrick Kerwin Chua

2004-12-09, 5:49 pm

In article <0b6401c4de1f$a0f352f0$a401280a@phx.gbl>,
luvthegame <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

quote:

>If i put a new hard drive in the xbox does it have to be
>formatted any special way?

The hard drive in an Xbox is a standard IDE drive formatted with an 8-gig
partition. However, it uses the proprietary X-FAT directory structure,
which isn't commonly used but is pretty well documented. Also, an Xbox
uses the ATA password feature to lock the hard drive before powering down,
and to unlock it upon powering up. Replacing the hard drive means you have
to lock it with this same password, based on a complex key loaded in the
Xbox EEPROM.

Short of modification with software hacks or a chip, the only way to
successfully replace the drive in an Xbox is to use the system install
DVD that's used to generate the hard drive key and lock the drive at the
factory. I really wish Microsoft would make that software public for the
people who are unfortunate enough to have failed hardware, but who know
enough about PC architecture to replace their own hard drive. Anybody know
if there's a way to get a hold of that disk outside of a licensed Xbox
repair shop?

-KKC, who's big on individual repair effort. Arrived at many a video game
bargain by buying broken and fixing afterwards: say hello to my Turbo
Duo-R and my beautiful six-button PS2 ASCII controller.
--
-- I was treated unfairly and without consideration by eBay - kendrick
and Paypal. If you require independent testimony about - @io.com
or corroboration of illegal or questionable business -
practices by those two companies, please contact me. -

Nicholas Andrade

2004-12-09, 5:49 pm

Kendrick Kerwin Chua wrote:

quote:

> In article <0b6401c4de1f$a0f352f0$a401280a@phx.gbl>,
> luvthegame <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> The hard drive in an Xbox is a standard IDE drive formatted with an 8-gig
> partition. However, it uses the proprietary X-FAT directory structure,
> which isn't commonly used but is pretty well documented. Also, an Xbox
> uses the ATA password feature to lock the hard drive before powering down,
> and to unlock it upon powering up. Replacing the hard drive means you have
> to lock it with this same password, based on a complex key loaded in the
> Xbox EEPROM.
>
> Short of modification with software hacks or a chip, the only way to
> successfully replace the drive in an Xbox is to use the system install
> DVD that's used to generate the hard drive key and lock the drive at the
> factory. I really wish Microsoft would make that software public for the
> people who are unfortunate enough to have failed hardware, but who know
> enough about PC architecture to replace their own hard drive. Anybody know
> if there's a way to get a hold of that disk outside of a licensed Xbox
> repair shop?
>
> -KKC, who's big on individual repair effort. Arrived at many a video game
> bargain by buying broken and fixing afterwards: say hello to my Turbo
> Duo-R and my beautiful six-button PS2 ASCII controller.

Kendrick,
Any idea whether a low level, block to block copy would work (like
what people use for forensic backups)? Maybe after my last final
tomorrow I'll give it a shot with dd.

Kendrick Kerwin Chua

2004-12-09, 5:49 pm

In article <Sb2ud.56769$QJ3.55952@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
Nicholas Andrade <sdnick484@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:

quote:

>Kendrick Kerwin Chua wrote:
<snip>[vbcol=seagreen]
> Any idea whether a low level, block to block copy would work (like
>what people use for forensic backups)? Maybe after my last final
>tomorrow I'll give it a shot with dd.

Note that to even get the drive to spin up and give you a directory
listing, you must have the ATA password fed into it immediately upon
power-up. It's one of those little-known but well-established hardware
features that nobody else uses, like the 'delete all' button on a digital
camera. As long as you have that password, then a block-for-block copy
would most certainly give you what you need. The issue is getting the
password, for which there are plenty of unofficial tools to do so.

I'm just interested in fixing Xbox consoles that have otherwise gone
south, and I don't care what people do with them once they're fixed. You
would think every machine that's actually plugged into a TV in a person's
home instead of sitting under a countertop with a Post-It Note marked 'Bad
Hard Drive' would equate to more software sales.

-KKC, who has half a mind to drop a low-profile DVD drive and a laptop
hard drive into an Xbox just to see if he can shave an inch off the top of
the thing. Pull out the power supply and flip over the heat sink and you
could stuff this thing into VHS tape case...
--
-- I was treated unfairly and without consideration by eBay - kendrick
and Paypal. If you require independent testimony about - @io.com
or corroboration of illegal or questionable business -
practices by those two companies, please contact me. -

Nicholas Andrade

2004-12-10, 12:47 am

Kendrick Kerwin Chua wrote:

quote:

> In article <Sb2ud.56769$QJ3.55952@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
> Nicholas Andrade <sdnick484@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> Note that to even get the drive to spin up and give you a directory
> listing, you must have the ATA password fed into it immediately upon
> power-up. It's one of those little-known but well-established hardware
> features that nobody else uses, like the 'delete all' button on a digital
> camera. As long as you have that password, then a block-for-block copy
> would most certainly give you what you need. The issue is getting the
> password, for which there are plenty of unofficial tools to do so.
>
> I'm just interested in fixing Xbox consoles that have otherwise gone
> south, and I don't care what people do with them once they're fixed. You
> would think every machine that's actually plugged into a TV in a person's
> home instead of sitting under a countertop with a Post-It Note marked 'Bad
> Hard Drive' would equate to more software sales.
>
> -KKC, who has half a mind to drop a low-profile DVD drive and a laptop
> hard drive into an Xbox just to see if he can shave an inch off the top of
> the thing. Pull out the power supply and flip over the heat sink and you
> could stuff this thing into VHS tape case...

Ok, I see what you mean now. It might be interesting to try making a
backup of an unmodded XBox's HDD by booting the drive in a modded XBox,
making a copy and putting the copied drive in the unmodded box. I'd be
curious to see if unmodded XBox would notice the difference.

luvthisgame

2004-12-10, 12:47 am

Thats a very good idea. I wonder if that would work? Other
question would be...

Once you do replace the HD and fix it with a new one could
it ever go on xbox live or would it be banned because the
hd is different?

Nicholas Andrade

2004-12-10, 12:47 am

luvthisgame wrote:

quote:

> Thats a very good idea. I wonder if that would work? Other
> question would be...
>
> Once you do replace the HD and fix it with a new one could
> it ever go on xbox live or would it be banned because the
> hd is different?

I would be inclined to say the XBox wouldn't be able to tell the
difference if the copy was made at low enough level (either sector or
block). I can't imagine there to be anything unique at the physical level.

Kendrick Kerwin Chua

2004-12-13, 12:47 am

In article <Z4-dnWa3nJUNNSXcRVn-uA@io.com>,
Kendrick Kerwin Chua <kendrick@io.com> wrote:

quote:

>
>Short of modification with software hacks or a chip, the only way to
>successfully replace the drive in an Xbox is to use the system install
>DVD that's used to generate the hard drive key and lock the drive at the
>factory. I really wish Microsoft would make that software public for the
>people who are unfortunate enough to have failed hardware, but who know
>enough about PC architecture to replace their own hard drive. Anybody know
>if there's a way to get a hold of that disk outside of a licensed Xbox
>repair shop?

Well, it makes me into something of a yutz to answer my own post, but
apparently the piece of software I need is called the "Xbox Hardware
Refresh" disk. I'm sure that it's not available at retail, but it appears
to have been sold to technicians and repair guys in the past. Hey MVP's,
happen to know how an independent fixit guy can get a hold of this thing?

-KKC, who posits that all people who post on Usenet should have a working
knowledge of yiddish.

--
-- I was treated unfairly and without consideration by eBay - kendrick
and Paypal. If you require independent testimony about - @io.com
or corroboration of illegal or questionable business -
practices by those two companies, please contact me. -

luvthisgame

2004-12-14, 12:49 am

I have a theory...

Ok..make sure the covering is off the xbox..just the min
to boot it up. Have an open PC tower ready..

Boot up the xbox..once booted and the drive is on (ok not
sure if its possible to get electrocuted this way)

Carefully unplug the ATA cable..and put in an ATA cable
from the PC tower..

the drive would already booted up and powered up..thus
disabling the need for the ATA to use any type of keys.
Then just do a clone of the drive..

Could this work?

Kendrick Kerwin Chua

2004-12-14, 12:49 am

In article <19da01c4e177$e94b4ac0$a401280a@phx.gbl>,
luvthisgame <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

quote:

>
>Ok..make sure the covering is off the xbox..just the min
>to boot it up. Have an open PC tower ready..
>
>Boot up the xbox..once booted and the drive is on (ok not
>sure if its possible to get electrocuted this way)
>
>Carefully unplug the ATA cable..and put in an ATA cable
>from the PC tower..
>
>the drive would already booted up and powered up..thus
>disabling the need for the ATA to use any type of keys.
>Then just do a clone of the drive..

This procedure is well documented among indivuduals who modify Xboxes.
This works for getting data and files off the drive, but it doesn't
duplicate the ATA locking key. This is important because an unmodified
Xbox will not load the Dashboard application or any games unless the hard
drive is in a locked state, and is locked with the password generated from
the local EEPROM key. If the installed hard drive is already unlocked upon
power up, the Xbox assumes that the drive is broken and displays the
service error screen.

From what I can tell, ATA locking occurs independently of any directory
structure or data storage. You can clone the whole drive and never
duplicate the password protection feature, which is probably the point of
the mechanism.

I'm still waiting to hear about a legal or official way to buy the Xbox
Hardware Refresh disk, which would make the job of replacing the hard
drive much simpler. I know the thing exists, and I'm interested to know
what you have to do or who you have to be in order to get a hold of one.
MVP's, anything to share?

-KKC, whose present project is making busted Gamecubes live again. If I
can't fix an Xbox then I'll just do repair jobs on the gear I *can* fix.
Guess who that benefits in the long term?
--
-- I was treated unfairly and without consideration by eBay - kendrick
and Paypal. If you require independent testimony about - @io.com
or corroboration of illegal or questionable business -
practices by those two companies, please contact me. -