Xbox Live - Live! available or unavailable?

Author

Live! available or unavailable?

Zigzag

2005-01-31, 5:41 pm

Hi all,

I'm not sure if this is on topic but I'm having trouble getting Live! on
Unreal Championship.

When Live! is selected it tells me there is a security update available
which I need to download prior to playing live. (I assume it has contacted a
server to know there is an update available).

I press ok to download the update, it goes to the download screen and after
10/15 secs it says Live! is unavailable. Huh?

Net result is no UC Live!

From looking at various forums it appears that other people have/had the
same problem but no solutions have been forthcoming.

Other games - Midtown Madness, Halo2, Rainbow Six 3, etc, are all playing
fine on Live!

Have connection via cat5 cable to Netgear DG834G router.

Legitimate Xbox/UC - no mods/pirate.

Have been trying for weeks to get this update and am now getting fed up and
nagged at by my son.

For sanity's sake any help/info would be appreciated.

Tia

Zig

TigerTiger

2005-01-31, 5:41 pm

Well, the obvious first step would be to bypass the router and go direct to
your internet connection device (dsl or cable modem)

"Zigzag" <zigzag@NoSpamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OrVB0M9BFHA.468@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

quote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm not sure if this is on topic but I'm having trouble getting Live! on
> Unreal Championship.
>
> When Live! is selected it tells me there is a security update available
> which I need to download prior to playing live. (I assume it has contacted
> a server to know there is an update available).
>
> I press ok to download the update, it goes to the download screen and
> after 10/15 secs it says Live! is unavailable. Huh?
>
> Net result is no UC Live!
>
> From looking at various forums it appears that other people have/had the
> same problem but no solutions have been forthcoming.
>
> Other games - Midtown Madness, Halo2, Rainbow Six 3, etc, are all playing
> fine on Live!
>
> Have connection via cat5 cable to Netgear DG834G router.
>
> Legitimate Xbox/UC - no mods/pirate.
>
> Have been trying for weeks to get this update and am now getting fed up
> and nagged at by my son.
>
> For sanity's sake any help/info would be appreciated.
>
> Tia
>
> Zig
>

Zigzag

2005-01-31, 5:41 pm

Hi TigerTiger,

The DG834G is a combined router/modem/hub, not sure how to bypass it. Any
ideas?

Zig

Kinesin

2005-01-31, 5:41 pm

Zigzag wrote:

quote:

> Hi TigerTiger,
>
> The DG834G is a combined router/modem/hub, not sure how to bypass it. Any
> ideas?
>
> Zig
>
>

your not on BY are you?

--
XBL GameTag: Kinesin

(clear the weather to reply)

TigerTiger

2005-01-31, 5:41 pm

"Zigzag" <zigzag@NoSpamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%239O2Sc9BFHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

quote:

> Hi TigerTiger,
>
> The DG834G is a combined router/modem/hub, not sure how to bypass it. Any
> ideas?
>
> Zig

Sorry, didn't bother looking up that particular model. Have you tried
putting the xbox ip into the dmz, assuming you have access to the interface.

Zigzag

2005-01-31, 5:41 pm

Hi Kinesin,

I'm not sure what BY is. If you mean BT the answer becomes a little vague.
I'm using adsl in the UK, (here comes the bit where I show my ignorance), if
I'm using my telephone line I imagine BT have their fingers in the pot
somewhere (BT wholesale?).

Zig

Zigzag

2005-01-31, 5:41 pm

Hi again TigerTiger,

If I'm using NAT does that give me a dynamic IP? I've certainly never
specified one anywhere and as the other games are running fine on Live! I
assume the Xbox is being assigned one ok.

Zig

Kinesin

2005-01-31, 5:41 pm

Zigzag wrote:

quote:

> I press ok to download the update, it goes to the download screen and after
> 10/15 secs it says Live! is unavailable. Huh?
>

quote:

> From looking at various forums it appears that other people have/had the
> same problem but no solutions have been forthcoming.
>
> Other games - Midtown Madness, Halo2, Rainbow Six 3, etc, are all playing
> fine on Live!
>
> Have connection via cat5 cable to Netgear DG834G router.
>

Right, after reading you original post I would say your fine. It's not
your fault. I would ring MS up and ask WTF is going on, if you and
others can't update unreal championship.

If other games are working ok, it seems server side.

The only thing I could suggest on a tech level are:
Change your DNS server to another DNS server (any will do including the
root servers)
Place your xbox IP in the DMZ any port blocking your router is doing
won't effect it there.
Delete you unreal saves - maybe these are conflicting with the download.
Try and update your dashboard - log in and check that it's ok.

wait till i get unreal in about 2 days. (I just won it on ebay about 5
hours ago), I'll see it I have the same problem.

Oh!! Just remembered!! aren't some of the updates just unlocks, the data
is on the disk, but not available till now. (that might be RTCW tho)

Do you have other patches? I know there is no that turns off
Anti-aliasing. Try turning it off manually then updating??

<I've no more guesses for now - HTH)
Steve

--
XBL GameTag: Kinesin

(clear the weather to reply)

Kinesin

2005-01-31, 5:41 pm

Zigzag wrote:

quote:

> Hi Kinesin,
>
> I'm not sure what BY is. If you mean BT the answer becomes a little vague.
> I'm using adsl in the UK, (here comes the bit where I show my ignorance), if
> I'm using my telephone line I imagine BT have their fingers in the pot
> somewhere (BT wholesale?).
>
> Zig
>
>

I meant Blueyonder as I'm having strange issues tonight... but as this
is long term issue it has nothing to do with them..

--
XBL GameTag: Kinesin

(clear the weather to reply)

Zigzag

2005-01-31, 5:41 pm

Hi again Kinesin,

1) Have never been able to get Live! with this game so no patches ever
downloaded.
2) Have deleted saves and the UC folder (saw that on a forum somewhere), it
made no difference.
3) Dashboard is up-to-date (it has updated in the past) or at least there
are no messages to say there is an update.
4) (Showing ignorance time again), as far as I'm aware the router acts as
the DNS server, how do I go about specifying another?
5) If I'm using NAT, doesn't the Xbox get assigned an IP? Speculation - If I
have a look at the Xbox IP (even if dynamically assigned) and stick that in
the DMZ, will the router need to reset to apply the change and isn't it
possible that the Xbox IP will then change?
6) Have emailed Xbox support 18/01/2005 and got no response.

Congrats on getting UC, I hope you enjoy it. It's too fast paced for my
meagre skills but my son enjoys it or maybe it's just fragging his old dad
he enjoys, whatever.

If you get your copy to update or even not, I'd be grateful if you let me
know on this post.

Cheers

Zig

TigerTiger

2005-01-31, 5:41 pm

"Zigzag" <zigzag@NoSpamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eqgVyr9BFHA.1296@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

quote:

> Hi again TigerTiger,
>
> If I'm using NAT does that give me a dynamic IP? I've certainly never
> specified one anywhere and as the other games are running fine on Live! I
> assume the Xbox is being assigned one ok.
>
> Zig

using NAT doesn't automatically give you a dynamic ip address, but most
routers are configured that way by default. You can manually set a specific
ip on the xbox, then add that ip to the DMZ.

tt

Zigzag

2005-01-31, 9:40 pm

Hi TigerTiger,

Thanks for bearing with me, I'll specify the IP on the Xbox - do I need to
turn off NAT on the router for this to work or can I leave it on and it will
pick up the Xbox IP and not assign it elsewhere (laptop etc.)

Zig

TigerTiger

2005-01-31, 9:40 pm

"Zigzag" <zigzag@NoSpamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23nq$DA%23BFHA.3236@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

quote:

> Hi TigerTiger,
>
> Thanks for bearing with me, I'll specify the IP on the Xbox - do I need to
> turn off NAT on the router for this to work or can I leave it on and it
> will pick up the Xbox IP and not assign it elsewhere (laptop etc.)
>
> Zig

You should be able to leave it on. I would find out the dhcp range your
netgear is using ,and assign an ip outside of that range so the router
doesn't give another device (pc,etc) the same ip address in the future. So,
let's say you have 3 devices on the network (2 pc's and the xbox)

Netgear DHCP Settings:
Starting ip address= 192.168.0.2
ending ip address = 192.168.0.254
-change the ending address to 192.168.0.10 or whatever number you'd like,
then set the xbox ip manually to something like 192.168.0.11 or some other
number outside the dhcp range

for example:
PC one's ip = 192.168.0.2
PC two's ip = 192.168.0.3
xbox ip = 192.168.0.11

add 192.168.0.11 into the netgear's dmz

One of the netgears status screens should give you the correct dns ip's.
The pc's and xbox will sometimes just have the ip of the netgear itself
192.168.0.1 for DNS or sometimes the router will relay the actual dns ips to
the devices on the network. I have no idea what this model does by default.

An alternate method would be to take the xbox to a friends house to try and
get it updated there. It's very odd that it will allow other games to
connect but not allow this update.

Zigzag

2005-01-31, 9:40 pm

Hi TigerTiger,

I have 5 devices including the router on the network and have limited the
dhcp range from 2 to 5 already.

I'll set the Xbox IP to greater than this and set the dmz.

It is odd that UC won't update, that's what makes it so frustrating.

I'll post back whether this works or not, it may help somebody else either
way.

Thanks for your help.

Zig

Ceesar

2005-02-03, 6:39 am

Hi there...

The Netgear DG834G is known to work fine with Xbox Live.

But I'm thinking it's one of two things...

1) the router's "MTU". Go to the the DG834G's configuration web page and
find the MTU value - I believe it's in the "LAN IP Setup" menu". Change the
MTU to be 1492.

2) Put the Xbox IP Address in the "DMZ" of the router. Go to your Xbox
Dashboard -> Settings -> Network Settings -> IP Addresses. Change it from
Automatic to Manual. Then enter the following:

IP Address : 192.168.0.10 (or some other unique IP address, as
192.168.0.xxx, where xxx can be 2 to 51)
Subnet mask : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway : 192.168.0.1

Then go to the "DMZ" option in the DG834G's configuration web page and enter
the above IP Address in the DMZ field. Save and apply the change...

--
Ceesar - Xbox MVP
GamerTag : Ceesar
Join the Xbox Community @ http://forums.xbox.com/
This posting is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"Zigzag" <zigzag@NoSpamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OrVB0M9BFHA.468@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

quote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm not sure if this is on topic but I'm having trouble getting Live! on
> Unreal Championship.
>
> When Live! is selected it tells me there is a security update available
> which I need to download prior to playing live. (I assume it has contacted
> a server to know there is an update available).
>
> I press ok to download the update, it goes to the download screen and
> after 10/15 secs it says Live! is unavailable. Huh?
>
> Net result is no UC Live!
>
> From looking at various forums it appears that other people have/had the
> same problem but no solutions have been forthcoming.
>
> Other games - Midtown Madness, Halo2, Rainbow Six 3, etc, are all playing
> fine on Live!
>
> Have connection via cat5 cable to Netgear DG834G router.
>
> Legitimate Xbox/UC - no mods/pirate.
>
> Have been trying for weeks to get this update and am now getting fed up
> and nagged at by my son.
>
> For sanity's sake any help/info would be appreciated.
>
> Tia
>
> Zig
>

Zigzag

2005-02-03, 5:42 pm

Hi Ceesar,

Thanks for the info.

The following represent my ponderings on the matter and do not constitute a
rant or an attack on the information you have provided. I hope that
somewhere along the line any information in this post will help somebody.

If I can tackle point 2 first. I have already tried this with IPs both
inside and outside my specified DHCP range.
The router I'm using only allows 1 IP address in the DMZ so obviously it
needs to know which one.
This can be achieved in 2 ways:
1) Set the Xbox network config to manual and specify an IP outside the DHCP
range and then specify the Xbox IP address in DMZ.
2 ) Set the Xbox network config to automatic, set the router to always
assign the same IP to the Xbox MAC address and then specify that IP in the
DMZ.
Whether the Xbox IP is in a DMZ or simply has all in/out filters removed
makes no difference.

On point 1, my ISP has explicitly recommended an MTU of 1430 which is what
my router is set at.
This raises another point. As all communication originates at the computer I
assume that for maximum efficiency the MTU of the computer should tally with
that of the router, ie. in this case 1430.
What is the MTU of the Xbox and can it be altered to tally with the router?
Is it 1492 by any chance?

Do you know if having an MTU not set to 1492 would cause this problem?

Even so, now that I have the security patch everything is running fine with
my original settings. Why? What is the difference between downloading the
security patch and downloading DLC? There obviously is one otherwise both
would either download or not as the case may be. My MTU hasn't changed so I
find it difficult to believe that is the culprit.
Why would ICS allow the patch to download but the router not (even in DMZ)?
Now I'm back on the router I can download the DLC.

Cheers

Zig

Ceesar

2005-02-04, 12:35 pm

If you wish to stick an MTU of 1430, based on your ISP's recommendation,
then that's fine. In my experience, though, I've seen best results when
(trying to) downloading auto-updates with an MTU of 1492.

As for the DMZ issue...personally, I would put the Xbox inside the DHCP
range, but use the method I described above to assign the Xbox a static
address. I would then put that IP address in the DMZ of your router, and
delete all other rules.

Putting the Xbox in the router's DMZ is quite safe ... obviously, you should
never put a PC's IP address in the DMZ! ;)

Regarding the ICMP ping issue ... it only applies to very specific Netgear
routers, the RT311, RT314, RT328, RH348, RT338, RP114 and RP334.

--
Ceesar - Xbox MVP
GamerTag : Ceesar
Join the Xbox Community @ http://forums.xbox.com/
This posting is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"Zigzag" <zigzag@NoSpamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u1JZ8XiCFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

quote:

> Hi Ceesar,
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> The following represent my ponderings on the matter and do not constitute
> a rant or an attack on the information you have provided. I hope that
> somewhere along the line any information in this post will help somebody.
>
> If I can tackle point 2 first. I have already tried this with IPs both
> inside and outside my specified DHCP range.
> The router I'm using only allows 1 IP address in the DMZ so obviously it
> needs to know which one.
> This can be achieved in 2 ways:
> 1) Set the Xbox network config to manual and specify an IP outside the
> DHCP range and then specify the Xbox IP address in DMZ.
> 2 ) Set the Xbox network config to automatic, set the router to always
> assign the same IP to the Xbox MAC address and then specify that IP in the
> DMZ.
> Whether the Xbox IP is in a DMZ or simply has all in/out filters removed
> makes no difference.
>
> On point 1, my ISP has explicitly recommended an MTU of 1430 which is what
> my router is set at.
> This raises another point. As all communication originates at the computer
> I assume that for maximum efficiency the MTU of the computer should tally
> with that of the router, ie. in this case 1430.
> What is the MTU of the Xbox and can it be altered to tally with the
> router? Is it 1492 by any chance?
>
> Do you know if having an MTU not set to 1492 would cause this problem?
>
> Even so, now that I have the security patch everything is running fine
> with my original settings. Why? What is the difference between downloading
> the security patch and downloading DLC? There obviously is one otherwise
> both would either download or not as the case may be. My MTU hasn't
> changed so I find it difficult to believe that is the culprit.
> Why would ICS allow the patch to download but the router not (even in
> DMZ)? Now I'm back on the router I can download the DLC.
>
> Cheers
>
> Zig
>

Chris H.

2005-02-04, 12:35 pm

Connecting through a router, all that is needed is that the Maximum
Transmission Unit (MTU) size on the router is set to 1365 or greater. Of
course, it would be a good idea to check with one's ISP also. Standard,
Xbox-approved routers
(http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/conn...uterlanding.htm) are above the MTU
size, and may be self-adjustable for the best setting.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

"Ceesar" <ceesar@dsl.pipex.com.nospam> wrote in message
news:Q5Sdnarr1OZPN5_fRVnyuA@pipex.net...

quote:

> If you wish to stick an MTU of 1430, based on your ISP's recommendation,
> then that's fine. In my experience, though, I've seen best results when
> (trying to) downloading auto-updates with an MTU of 1492.
>
> As for the DMZ issue...personally, I would put the Xbox inside the DHCP
> range, but use the method I described above to assign the Xbox a static
> address. I would then put that IP address in the DMZ of your router, and
> delete all other rules.
>
> Putting the Xbox in the router's DMZ is quite safe ... obviously, you
> should never put a PC's IP address in the DMZ! ;)
>
> Regarding the ICMP ping issue ... it only applies to very specific Netgear
> routers, the RT311, RT314, RT328, RH348, RT338, RP114 and RP334.
>
> --
> Ceesar - Xbox MVP
> GamerTag : Ceesar
> Join the Xbox Community @ http://forums.xbox.com/
> This posting is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
>
>
> "Zigzag" <zigzag@NoSpamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:u1JZ8XiCFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>
>

Zigzag

2005-02-04, 12:35 pm

Hi Cessar,

Regarding the MTU, my ISP sent an email to me (and all it's other home
clients?) some while ago totally unprompted to reset the MTU to 1430 along
with a suggestion of apps that would achieve this including DrTCP. I can
only assume they would go to these lengths for some positive reason so I've
stuck with it.

I have indeed settled on an IP inside the DHCP range but it is effectively
static because the router has been told to always assign the same IP
according to the Xbox MAC address. I can only have 1 IP in the DMZ and as
everything is working without using the DMZ I might as well keep it free
until I need it.

You're quite right about the routers mentioned regarding the ICMP packet, my
apologies for not making this clearer. However, there is also a reference to
port opening which I have also seen on the Xbox page
http://www.xbox.com/en-nz/live/star...faq/default.htm that makes no
reference to particular routers.

I still feel there is an issue regarding the UC security update that has not
been rightly addressed.
There has to be something peculiar about this because I have a number of
Live! games that have all run as sweet as a nut with the default router
settings. Even UC, now that I have the update, runs like a dream on the
router's default settings.

I think the attention should be pointed at what the server for the security
update is expecting and not getting, or, is it sending something back that
is causing a problem. I've certainly not had any problem downloading DLCs,
including the UC ones and presumably it is the same mechanism.

Regards

Zig

Zigzag

2005-02-04, 12:35 pm

Hi Chris,

Yes, in fact I have seen the same thing here
http://www.xbox.com/en-nz/live/star...faq/default.htm so I suspected
the MTU was not the problem. I don't think mine is self adjusting but I may
be wrong.
As I said to Ceesar my ISP emailed me to change the MTU without any
prompting from me so I expect there was a positive reason for it.

I'm quite prepared to accept that I'm wrong but, given that everything else
going through the router has always been fine, and I've seen a UDP packet
sent out on port 88 when the download confirmation was made and then
received nothing back, I can't help but feel that there is something
peculiar about this download outside of my network. It may be due to
information in the packet sent out as the download worked when I switched
back to ICS and a USB modem. I don't know if ICS adds additional information
to the request packet. If there is a difference in packet information could
it be that the server is ignoring certain packets thus giving the impression
that the server is not responding?
I'm certainly no network expert, just trying to put some logic to my
musings.

Regards

Zig

Chris H.

2005-02-04, 12:35 pm

Well, neither am I, but I would believe the extra step is causing the
problem. Although there's information here about using ICS for a
connection: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/connect/windowsics.htm Check
out Scenario 1 for the USB-based modem, and maybe something will pop out at
you.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

"Zigzag" <zigzag@NoSpamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OK5gsglCFHA.1260@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

quote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> Yes, in fact I have seen the same thing here
> http://www.xbox.com/en-nz/live/star...faq/default.htm so I
> suspected the MTU was not the problem. I don't think mine is self
> adjusting but I may be wrong.
> As I said to Ceesar my ISP emailed me to change the MTU without any
> prompting from me so I expect there was a positive reason for it.
>
> I'm quite prepared to accept that I'm wrong but, given that everything
> else going through the router has always been fine, and I've seen a UDP
> packet sent out on port 88 when the download confirmation was made and
> then received nothing back, I can't help but feel that there is something
> peculiar about this download outside of my network. It may be due to
> information in the packet sent out as the download worked when I switched
> back to ICS and a USB modem. I don't know if ICS adds additional
> information to the request packet. If there is a difference in packet
> information could it be that the server is ignoring certain packets thus
> giving the impression that the server is not responding?
> I'm certainly no network expert, just trying to put some logic to my
> musings.
>
> Regards
>
> Zig
>

Zigzag

2005-02-04, 12:35 pm

Hi Chris,

Thanks for that.
I've just had a wander around the site and at the moment nothing is
"popping".
When I switched back to ICS I used a hub rather than the crossover cable
shown in scenario one. Otherwise everything was set up as described.
One thing that did come out of it was the link to the diagnostics page
http://www.xbox.com/en-us/live/connect/diagnosing.htm.
I was completely unaware of the network diagnostics capability on the Xbox.
I checked out the diagnostics while going through the router and got the
following results:
MT: 1 = MTU ok
IC: 1 = ICMP ok
NT: 1 = NAT type: open

No surprises here then as apart from the UC update everything has always
gone fine.

Just one question: in your post you said "but I would believe the extra step
is causing the problem", what extra step are you actually referring to here?

Cheers

Zig