quote:

---

> I presume the riots are about NGE ???

quote:

---

> On 18 Nov 2005 07:41:09 -0800, Eerfa wrote:
>
>
> They must be in the Jedi forums. I haven't seen them.
>
> Dave
> --
> You can talk about us, but you can't talk without us!
> US Army Signal Corps!!
>
> http://www.geocities.com/davidcasey98
>
> Remove IH8SPAM to reply by email!

quote:

---

>
> DC> They must be in the Jedi forums. I haven't seen them.
>
> Thanks for reminding me to put you into the killfile, as all you have to
> say is against jedi but nothing constructive. I have a jedi myself, but
> it became boring with CU1.0, so I played my BH instead most of the time.
> People are not upset about jedi but about the game itself now. I'm sure
> you cannot understand that, since your focus is to only complain about
> jedi. Basically whiners like you were responsible for the CU and
> probably for the NGE as well.

quote:

---

> Bye

quote:

---

> well ive heard alot of people are upset about this NGE

quote:

---

> I personally haven't had a free second to really look at it, but think
> such a drastic change is totally silly

quote:

---

> hilly areas among other things), but the current NGE combat system is

quote:

---

> *worlds* better than WoW.

quote:

---

>
> Oh come on - I know personal taste accounts for a lot, but SWG > WoW?
> Don't you want to keep even the slightest bit of credibility?

quote:

---

> Don't get me wrong, in no way did I say that SWG is better than WoW
> *overall*. I simply said the combat in SWG is better than the combat in
> WoW. Do try to keep up. :-)

quote:

---

>still
>
>Oh come on - I know personal taste accounts for a lot, but SWG > WoW? Don't
>you want to keep even the slightest bit of credibility?
>
>

quote:

---

>On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:21:04 +1000, Rastus wrote:
>
>
>This is Usenet, does anyone really have any credibility? Who would you
>"believe" more? Someone who uses their real name or someone who goes by
>the name of "Rastus"? ;-)
>
>At any rate, let's compare the two!
>
>In SWG you no longer are able to lock onto your target. This means you not
>only have to keep your target in view at all times if you want to him them,
>but you have to plan your attacks somewhat better depending on the CL of
>your target. I've discovered that fighting in hilly terrain is a lot more
>difficult now.
>

quote:

---

>In WoW, you lock onto your target and then just sit there. You can even do
>some running or moving so long as your target stays close which it usually
>does. You don't even have to hit a button if you don't want to. Boring.
>I've actually gotten up and grabbed a Coke from the kitchen or ran to the
>bathroom while playing WoW after starting to attack something and come back
>when it was done.
>

quote:

---

>Don't get me wrong, in no way did I say that SWG is better than WoW
>*overall*. I simply said the combat in SWG is better than the combat in
>WoW. Do try to keep up. :-)
>
>One more thing, unlike the minority of (former) SWG players who seem to
>think their opinion should be shared by all, I don't believe that. It's
>merely *my* opinion that the combat in SWG is better than the combat in
>WoW. So don't worry, if you don't share the same opinion I won't be upset
>with you. Unlike Dirk or Crispy. ;-)
>
>Dave

quote:

---

>David Casey <sgtcasey@IH8SPAMcomcast.net> writes:
>
>
>Twitch combat isn't inherently better than the auto-attack used by
>most other MMOGs (pre-consolification SWG included). FPS style combat
>has its place, but not a place where much of the left view is obscured
>by your character, and not in a game as laggy as this.

quote:

---

>Reply to message from David Casey <sgtcasey@IH8SPAMcomcast.net> (Sat, 19
>Nov 2005 02:20:25) about "Re: OMG":
>
>
> DC> On 18 Nov 2005 07:41:09 -0800, Eerfa wrote:
>
>
> DC> They must be in the Jedi forums. I haven't seen them.
>
>Thanks for reminding me to put you into the killfile, as all you have to
>say is against jedi but nothing constructive. I have a jedi myself, but it
>became boring with CU1.0, so I played my BH instead most of the time.
>People are not upset about jedi but about the game itself now. I'm sure you
>cannot understand that, since your focus is to only complain about jedi.
>Basically whiners like you were responsible for the CU and probably for the
>NGE as well.
>

quote:

---

>
> Precisely.
>
> If I wanted to play a FPS game I would go log into BattleField or
> Counter-Strike.
>
> Here I wanted to role play in a science-fantasy based setting. I liked
> the idea of guns and space flight and creating an alter life in a
> universe unlike the mundane one we live in here.
>
> However, if ANY universt were to undergo the kinda of foundational
> changes that the SWG univers has, it would have been ripped apart!

quote:

---

>
> Yes. And you have fun in the doing too!

quote:

---

>
> Well, I do "Keep" up but there are a couple of other "up's" that I got
> from this game too....
>
> Fed up!
>
> Gave up!

quote:

---

> <SNIP>
>
> Well, I have to say that I can see why he hated the Jedi so much. From
> day ONE the developers had said tha tthe way of the Jedi was going to be
> VERY difficult. They never said you could grind one out in a month. They
> never even promised that everybody WOULD become one. They said it would
> be very rare and very difficult.
>
> Then the money whores took over and I am sure forced the developers to
> modify the game to placate the forum criers.
>
> Quite frankly, I feel the demise of this game, for me, was caused by a
> combination of an overly vocal PvP crowd that held onto a sympathetic
> ear at the top of the Developer food chain and that of the Jedi
> screechers. The simple fact that the two factions in most cases overlap
> is beside the point. It is these two factions that compleated my
> decision to scrap this game and cancel my accounts.
>
> That and the fact that it just was not fun anymore.

quote:

---

> up on something? ;-)

quote:

---

>
> Let me guess. your a Paladin? Have you even tried any of the other
> classes?

quote:

---

>On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:41:31 -0500, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>LOL, I make a single anti-Jedi comment (the only one actually) and I'm
>labeled for life. ;-)
>
>I remember one BH mission where I waited for the Jedi to come out of his
>house for about 30 minutes or so. I'm patient and I just might score on a
>new Jedi or lower level who might not know how to use their powers yet. No
>such luck. I /bow before attacking and ask if they need to power up before
>we start or whatever it is Jedi do. He says no so I start the attack. A
>few minutes later as I'm laying on the ground incapped with no hope of
>killing this guy, he doesn't DB me and after I drop the mission he duels me
>and gives me some pointers for the next time. Nice guy!
>
>The night before the NGE, myself and another BH in my guild tried to get
>the same mission. There were a lot of Jedi PvP'ing in Theed that night so
>catching one who was already worn out would have been great! But we never
>could get the same mission. So we followed each other around on our
>respective missions. He kept getting lucky and catching AFK Jedi. I kept
>getting DB'd by the full-template Jedi my toon always seemed to get.
>
>Ah well, it was all in fun. :-)
>
>Dave

quote:

---

> my point stands: the combat in WoW isn't as good as the combat in SWG. In
> my opinion.

quote:

---

> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:21:04 +1000, Rastus wrote:
>
> In SWG you no longer are able to lock onto your target. This means you not
> only have to keep your target in view at all times if you want to him them,
> but you have to plan your attacks somewhat better depending on the CL of
> your target. I've discovered that fighting in hilly terrain is a lot more
> difficult now.
>
> In WoW, you lock onto your target and then just sit there. You can even do
> some running or moving so long as your target stays close which it usually
> does. You don't even have to hit a button if you don't want to. Boring.
> I've actually gotten up and grabbed a Coke from the kitchen or ran to the
> bathroom while playing WoW after starting to attack something and come back
> when it was done.

quote:

---

>
> Warlock is an interesting class combat wise and it will keep your mind
> busy. Rogue is for twitch fingers and Paladin is as you mentioned: for
> those who want to take a piss during battles. Warrior is easy to play
> yet hard to master - and few do master it properly. Hunter is the single
> best soloer in the game and if your beastmaster specced then your a one
> man army in PvE.
>
> Druids are harder to play as well due to the different forms. Shadow
> specced preists are proberly a lot more fun to play than mages. Mages
> are at a crossroads - fire specced is boring yet frost specced is
> exceedingly difficult till your very high level. Definately one of the
> biggest challengers is to stick with a frost specced mage from 10-60.
>
> I play a beastmaster specced hunter at level 55 and I solo nearly all the
> time unless a horde town is attacked. Then I go into anti-rogue mode and
> keep the town clear of stealthers whilst the rest of the team do their
> bit at the gates. I have been doing this since level 48 and it is really
> intense trying to bring down other players 12 levels your senior. Most
> people reckon Hunters are boring but I am suspecting they are not using
> the full range of anti rogue capabilities that Hunters posses and just
> use them as simple ranged damage dealers.
>
> You really don't get a feel for the class till the late 20's though.
>
> Besides - WoW just works. It's LoS and Object Collision leaves SWG for
> dead and unlike SWG it isn't trying to reinvent itself as a FPS where
> these things are an absolute must either. Movement is crisp and
> controlled. Combat also feels crisp and completely controlled and not
> "spongey" like SWG where you might right click three times in a row
> trying to get your special to fire once. Things aren't warping all over
> the place. There is more content than you could possibly fit in 60
> levels even if you did nothing than quest to level, yet questing is just
> one option to use to level. Soloing and group grinding are just as
> viable level methods as questing.
>
> The biggest thing is that WoW is completed. New content is added which
> builds upon existing content without trashing huge tracts of gameplay
> which came before it and existing gameplay is only refined and not
> changed en masse. To acheive balance they raise the weak classes rather
> then nerf the strongest classes as Blizzard realises people don't like
> being nerfed either.

quote:

---

> Glad you enjoy PvP. To me that is as boring as you say WoW combat is.

quote:

---

> But Hey..... if SWG can survive and keep the SONY Monkey happy..... with
> justy the PvP crowd then more power to them!
>
> Not my cup o' tea. Maybe one day a real SciFantasy game will come along
> where they don't feel the need to cater to the people hunters.

quote:

---

>On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:02:50 -0500, Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>Nah, never PvP'ed more than maybe 5 or 6 BH missions (which I lost every
>single time) and one time when some fellow guildies called out for
>assistance in Theed.
>
>I always wanted to be a crafter. I used to think I'd do what I could to
>become the go-to toon on my server for stuff. Well, last night as I
>finally sat down with my crafting toon to see what I could make, I was
>somewhat surprised at what I could no longer craft. Bah, they screwed the
>entire crafting profession if you ask me. :-(
>
>I'll give WoW another shot.
>

quote:

---

>
>It does seem like they're getting SWG ready for the folks who aren't using
>keyboards (i.e., consoles). *sigh*
>
>Dave

quote:

---

>My work mates play WoW and are trying to get me to try it but it
>doesn't appeal to me as much as SWG did....roll on Start Trek mmorpg !

quote:

---

> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 02:33:31 GMT, David Casey
> <sgtcasey@IH8SPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I will state here without reservation.....
>
> SWG has the MOST ENTAILED crafting system of any game I ever
> encountered. I enjoied it a lot but at times, as with ALL crafting
> systems, found it a bit tedious.
>
> However, the concept of a game environment wherein 99% of ALL items
> are player created is tremendous!! It is one of the primary draws of
> this game for me.... but the constant tinkering and dicking around
> with the ruleset was just too much for me.
>
>
> From the sounds of it yes, I am betting on a 360 release in the near
> future. Which will be a sad moment for this game and I fear the death
> of it to the PC gameing world.
>
> Or perhaps...... they will split it off and have a consoul AND a new
> and revamped PC version more along the lines of what was released
> originally???
>
>
>
> Nawwwww.

quote:

---

> If Sony cared at all about the players they would have set up servers
> with both the new and the old system and let us decide which we
> prefered playing in.

quote:

---

> fixed the original game. Instead they made a poor attempt to apply a
> bandaid to a broken system (CU) only to replace it with a whole new
> broken system a few months later.
>
> --
> /ray

quote:

---

>Athos wrote:
>
>
>I beg to differ. If they had cared sbout their customers they would have
>fixed the original game. Instead they made a poor attempt to apply a
>bandaid to a broken system (CU) only to replace it with a whole new
>broken system a few months later.

quote:

---

>
>They have confirmed on the official forum they have been working on NGE for
>close to 12 months, so the CU wasn't a bandaid.
>
>They had an experiemental leg amputation procedure to try out but no-one is
>going to touch it with a healthy leg. The CU and subsequent nerfs was
>delibrate gangrene applied to the leg so they had a reason for the NGE.
>
>Just like the steady nerfing of classes that fell outside the NGE - they
>wanted to make these classes unpopular before the NGE hit to minimise the
>impact. The only proffessions not steadily nerfed we the markman based
>ones - and funny enough now 6/9 classes are just glorified marksman, and the
>other 3 are now irrellevent.
>

quote:

---

> The simple fact of the matter is they have made one bad decision after
> another and presented the MMORPG community with a textbook case study
> on how NOT to run an online game.

quote:

---

> Skinner1@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> I have said this before, and I stand by my statement:
>
> SWG will go down in history as the MMO ruined by bad decisions by devs and
> management.
>
> Future game designers will have this game as a textbook example of what
> NOT to do if you want a successful MMOG.
>
> If it hadn't been for the Star Wars brand this game would be dead long
> ago.
>
> --
> /ray
>
> Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so.

quote:

---

> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:36:45 +0100, Raymond Baastad
> <raymond@*spamblock*baastad.net> wrote:
>
>
> I will take that a setp further back....
>
>
> Had they cared at all about the MAJORITY of their characters they
> would have realized that 90% of their clientel were NOT complaining at
> all about imbalanced play after 6 months of play. Had they cared at
> all aboout the 90% they would have left the game alone and made TONS
> of money!!!
>
>

quote:

---

> I heard the same thing about EQ for years and years. This is not different
> than that the bad calls on SWG are about as "new and original" as the
> complaints against them. Same ole hat hits about every MMO. phear the
> incessent nerfing

quote:

---

> Sardious wrote:
>
> Nerfing is nothing new. Adjustments happen along the way, it is the
> nature of a live game. You change the rules as you go.
>
>
> What sets SWG apart is that SOE has totally revamped the game. Twice.
> This game doesn't even resemble the game I picked up and started playing
> over 2 years ago.
>
> --
> /ray
>
> Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so

quote:

---

> nature of a live game. You change the rules as you go.

quote:

---

>Yeah I still think a lot more than 10% complained originally and I do not
>know if it'd be better or worse but I am 99% sure that you'd be here
>bitching either way.
>
>Even if you are right that the CU things hurt it, even if you are right that
>90% never complained originally, I am still 99% right that youd be here
>bitching about it either way
>

quote:

---

>Sardious wrote:
>
>Nerfing is nothing new. Adjustments happen along the way, it is the
>nature of a live game. You change the rules as you go.
>
>
>What sets SWG apart is that SOE has totally revamped the game. Twice.
>This game doesn't even resemble the game I picked up and started playing
>over 2 years ago.

quote:

---

>
>Interestingly enough - Blizzard is on the record as saying they go to great
>lengths to avoid nerfing. If a particular class or build is overpowered,
>they would rather raise the other classes/builds rather than lower the
>outstanding one.
>
>And it isn't just all hot air - many of the "also ran" class/builds have
>just been revamped or are in the works for a revamp. My Beastmaster Hunter
>build (which used to be unpopular) is now much more powerful than it was
>previously after a recent revamp.
>

quote:

---

> On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:36:57 +1000, "Rastus" <zzrhardy@iinet.net.au>
> wrote:
>
>
> EXACTLY.
>
> Your statement just made me realize something....
>
> Not unlike the Femanist Movement, which attempted to put women on a
> level par with men by chipping away at men's achievements and
> prominence to bring them DOWN to the level of women's self esteem....
>
> So has SOE done with this game. And it only serves to illuminate the
> forward thinking of Blizzard in their reverse thinking to the popular
> norm today.
>
> You don't make everybody equal by bringing everybody DOWN to the
> lowest lever damnit...... you do it by elevating the lowest level
> up!!! That's only common sense!!
>

quote:

---

> On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:35:00 -0700, "SWG" <pimp@pwnage.mil> wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> Quite to the contrary there FanBoy....
>
> Try doing a bit of home work before you start pointing fingers.....
>
> Read back amongst the posts..... I was all for this game in the
> beginning. It weas the best game I had and HAVE ever seen.
>
> Until the cronically Success Challenged PvP'ers started whining about
> unbalanced combat. Even then it was anoither 3 or 4 months before the
> smack of the nerf stick started interfering with *my* play.... and it
> was another 2 or 3 months after that that I got fed up with RE-mapping
> my character the THIRD time that I finally found another game to play.
> EVEN AFTER THAT....... I jkept my account and played part time trying
> to make the thing fun for me.....
>
> So before you start slamming and conjecturing you might try at least
> looking back over the posts from the past and see whether or not you
> are really as full of crap as you are going to make yourself sound!
>

quote:

---

>this is true of skinner. even though he has a "i told you so attitude", he
>definately has had the same stance for every message of his i have read.
>

quote:

---

>
>
><Skinner1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:7rogo1l826rj124qguui8i2ld5usu6gj1k@4ax.com...
>

quote:

---

> this is true of skinner. even though he has a "i told you so attitude", he
> definately has had the same stance for every message of his i have read.
>
>
>
> <Skinner1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7rogo1l826rj124qguui8i2ld5usu6gj1k@4ax.com...
not[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>

quote:

---

>So, along this thread, WoW any better? I have a copy, but have not
>installed it.
>
>The basis for my asking American Express to back out the charges was
>in effect "they changed to much for me to be able to use the game".
>I explained a bit on the change earlier this year, and that I felt two
>changes
>were too much, and close enough to when I paid to want my cash back.
>
>I doubt I will have an issue.
>
>John

quote:

---

> I don't think I understood anything after your initial question.....
> Other than you feel two charges is too much which I can sympathize
> with.
>
> As for WoW being better or worst that is a matter of individual
> preference.
>
> I have had ZERO problem with any sort of player behavior in WoW. A
> VERY rare and welcome situation indeed! The game moves along well.
> It's a levelling game and you get enough player slots (8 or 10 I
> think) that you can mold a character that meets any need.
>
> The guild system is pretty good and player communications is easy.
> Combat is good and varies a LOT from class to class. Lots and I mean
> LOTS of soloing available as well as group hunting/adventuring as
> well.
>
> Give it a try if you can afford a one month game card. You get a free
> moonth when you sign up but I have found it takes at least TWO months.
> One to learn the basics of the game and another to get the feel for
> whether or not you like it.