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Home > Archive > Flight simulator > February 2006 > Thrustmaster HOTAS
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Thrustmaster HOTAS
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| Throttle and stick.
Anyone have any comments on this? It 'looks' good to me, but I've
been down that road before. BTW, Wal-Mart is the cheapest place to
find it. About $200. Anyone know better?
Thanks, Bob
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| Andrew MacPherson 2006-02-26, 7:51 pm |
| fake@fake.com (Bob) wrote:
quote:
> Anyone have any comments on this?
Search the group via Google. You'll find the same debate about ten times,
with the same people taking the same side... either love it or hate it.
There are few people on the fence when it comes to the TM Cougar.
http://groups.google.com/groups?sou...&rls=GGLD,GGLD:
2005-10,GGLD:en&q=cougar%20tm&sa=N&tab=wg
http://tinyurl.com/ebvua
My advice is definitely try the feel of the stick before you buy, if
that's possible.
Andrew McP
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| Mitch_A 2006-02-26, 7:51 pm |
| Ive had a Cougar for a couple years and its been a pleasure to use.
Initially the springs were a bit stiff but after some time they broke in
nicely. Ive considered modding it but I just cant justify another $300 for
an already good product. IMO nothing beats grabbing a couple handfuls of
cold steel before knocking down a few bogies.
Mitch
"Bob" <fake@fake.com> wrote in message
news:OEsKf.15231$2O6.6310@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
quote:
> Throttle and stick.
>
> Anyone have any comments on this? It 'looks' good to me, but I've been
> down that road before. BTW, Wal-Mart is the cheapest place to find it.
> About $200. Anyone know better?
>
> Thanks, Bob
>
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| Revvin 2006-02-26, 7:52 pm |
|
"Bob" <fake@fake.com> wrote in message
news:OEsKf.15231$2O6.6310@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
quote:
> Anyone have any comments on this?
Choosing a joystick is very subjective and unfortunately there are not many
places where you can try them on the shelf these days. I use CH gear now, a
Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, Pro Pedals, Throttle Quadrant and Flight Sim
Yoke but I have owned a Cougar. Unfortunately my experience with the Cougar
was very poor, I went through four of them in an 18 month period. The first
one I bought from the official UK Thrustmaster store but it arrived dead on
arrival and TM would not give me a direct replacement, instead they expected
me to wait four or more weeks to repair it and send it back. I got a refund
and ordered somewhere else and that lasted a while longer until the throttle
PCB started behaving erratically so that one went back too. I had the same
throttle problems with the third one and the speedbrake broke so I took it
back to the shop and the owner had to buy the speedbrake part from TM even
though he was trying to save them time and money by sending another whole
unit back to them. I'd lost faith by then so I sold the fourth one and
bought my CH Fighterstick and Pro Throttle to go with the Pro Pedals and
Flight Sim Yoke I had already.
Of those problems I mentioned above my Cougars also suffered from flaking
paint to different degree's (including the first which I inspected) and
increasing centre play (obviously the play didn't increase on the first as I
didn't use it, it was just loose around the centre anyway) when used after a
few months. If you look around the net it seems that Thrustmaster is still
selling the Cougar with the misaligned speedbrake housing despite that fault
being located soon after the Cougar was released. You can fix the centre
play with an expensive community made mod but although I had the funds to do
so I had no faith in the electronics or the way the Cougar was assembled
when I saw inside the amount of hot glue and pieces of tape holding things
together. The other problem I had was with making small adjustments the
throttle which I needed for formation flying. Although there is a tension
wheel I could not adjust it to allow me to make small throttle adjustments.
The throttle action is very sticky and I found I had to wrench the throttle
back and fore which if you search around the net you'll find other users
experiencing this and a few home made mods to try and cure another failing
in the Cougar's design. With that and the infamously poor pots I wouldn't
own another Cougar. Again this can be fixed with another expensive mod but
what happens if like mine the electronics fail? how many spares are you
supposed to carry for such an expensive stick? My CH gear works just as it
did the day I took it out of the box over two years ago.
Perhaps one of the Cougar owners can tell you if there are any 64 bit
drivers yet. The last subject on this at SimHQ from a BETA tester indicated
TM appeared to be having problems getting their chip supplier to work on 64
bit support. Hopefully that has now been rectified. there are now 64 Bit
drivers available for Saitek and CH gear. Bob Church is working on new
updates to the Control Manager software as we speak and recent versions have
included features requested by users. CH listen to their customers and take
their idea's onboard, TM on the other hand seem to treat their customers
with disdain.
| |
| Don Burnette 2006-02-26, 7:52 pm |
| Revvin wrote:
quote:
> "Bob" <fake@fake.com> wrote in message
> news:OEsKf.15231$2O6.6310@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Choosing a joystick is very subjective and unfortunately there are
> not many places where you can try them on the shelf these days. I use
> CH gear now, a Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, Pro Pedals, Throttle
> Quadrant and Flight Sim Yoke but I have owned a Cougar. Unfortunately
> my experience with the Cougar was very poor, I went through four of
> them in an 18 month period. The first one I bought from the official
> UK Thrustmaster store but it arrived dead on arrival and TM would not
> give me a direct replacement, instead they expected me to wait four
> or more weeks to repair it and send it back. I got a refund and
> ordered somewhere else and that lasted a while longer until the
> throttle PCB started behaving erratically so that one went back too.
> I had the same throttle problems with the third one and the
> speedbrake broke so I took it back to the shop and the owner had to
> buy the speedbrake part from TM even though he was trying to save
> them time and money by sending another whole unit back to them. I'd
> lost faith by then so I sold the fourth one and bought my CH
> Fighterstick and Pro Throttle to go with the Pro Pedals and Flight
> Sim Yoke I had already.
> Of those problems I mentioned above my Cougars also suffered from
> flaking paint to different degree's (including the first which I
> inspected) and increasing centre play (obviously the play didn't
> increase on the first as I didn't use it, it was just loose around
> the centre anyway) when used after a few months. If you look around
> the net it seems that Thrustmaster is still selling the Cougar with
> the misaligned speedbrake housing despite that fault being located
> soon after the Cougar was released. You can fix the centre play with
> an expensive community made mod but although I had the funds to do so
> I had no faith in the electronics or the way the Cougar was assembled
> when I saw inside the amount of hot glue and pieces of tape holding
> things together. The other problem I had was with making small
> adjustments the throttle which I needed for formation flying.
> Although there is a tension wheel I could not adjust it to allow me
> to make small throttle adjustments. The throttle action is very
> sticky and I found I had to wrench the throttle back and fore which
> if you search around the net you'll find other users experiencing
> this and a few home made mods to try and cure another failing in the
> Cougar's design. With that and the infamously poor pots I wouldn't
> own another Cougar. Again this can be fixed with another expensive
> mod but what happens if like mine the electronics fail? how many
> spares are you supposed to carry for such an expensive stick? My CH
> gear works just as it did the day I took it out of the box over two
> years ago.
> Perhaps one of the Cougar owners can tell you if there are any 64 bit
> drivers yet. The last subject on this at SimHQ from a BETA tester
> indicated TM appeared to be having problems getting their chip
> supplier to work on 64 bit support. Hopefully that has now been
> rectified. there are now 64 Bit drivers available for Saitek and CH
> gear. Bob Church is working on new updates to the Control Manager
> software as we speak and recent versions have included features
> requested by users. CH listen to their customers and take their
> idea's onboard, TM on the other hand seem to treat their customers
> with disdain.
I understand the 64 bit drivers are now in development, and should be
released soon. I was glad to hear it, being one that has two Cougars modded
as you mentioned above.
The speedbrake issue certainly is well known, however for some it seems to
last without breaking. I modded my original Cougar that I had for over 3
years and ran stock, my speedbrake housing never broke. However, the easiest
fix is to order the set of aluminum speedbrake/dogfight housings from IJ (
frequents the Cougar forum at CougarWorld), not expensive and fairly easy to
install. There are also instructions at Cougar World for fixing the
misaligned speedbrake.
I did order IJ's gimball mod early last year and put it in my original
Cougar, imho it made an already good stick pretty much perfect. The springs
are much softer, very soft around center, then increases tension as you move
the stick toward it's extremes. At full deflection, the springs are about
70% of the stiffer stock springs that come with the Cougar. No transition
flats any more, no center slop any more. Nothing but smooth...
Yes, the gimball mod is pricey, but I had the money and in my mind it was
worth every penny. I had ordered another Cougar from Amazon over a year ago,
which still sits new in box. I liked the gimball /hall sensors mod so well,
that I ordered a second to put in the spare Cougar. Whether I will ever
actually need it or not, who knows. But I like the setup so much, I wanted
to have an extra.
As far as electronics issues, I have not had any issues in my original
Cougar which I have used for over 4 years now. Not even a failing pot, but
then I did replace them with hall sensors when I got the first mod little
over a year ago. I also put the hall sensor in my throttle as well.But the
stock pots lasted me those first 3 years. Now, I was never a hardcore
simmer, ie flew every day, but more of a casual simmer.
As far as the paint, I understand there was some paint issues on the early
batches of Cougars, I do not think that has been an issue for some time.
As for the throttle, I agree, it does have " stiction" . While I do not feel
I have to " wrench" the throttle to get it to move, it does take more force
than I would like to get it started, hence making it hard to make very small
incremental throttle changes. IJ, the maker of the gimball mod, is going to
be working on a mod to fix the stiction in the throttle. Still, I personally
would take the stiction to have the type of design the Cougar throttle has.
I think some have successfully used some type of very low friction tape to
help reduce the stiction.
TM does seem to be refocusing on getting the Cougars out there. They made a
big shipment to Comp USA in the last couple of months, and I know they had
them on the shelves for a while at a great price. I think Wal-Mart has
brought some in as well. Some folks also seem to be starting to get better
response from them for things like spare parts now as well...
The Cougar is certainly not for everyone, but if you follow Cougar World
forums you will see it has quite a following. Personally, I love my Cougar
and would not want to part with it at all. Perhaps someday I will purchase a
CH Hotas setup just to see how I like it compared to my Cougar, but for now,
I feel I have all I need to enjoy my flight simming.
--
Don Burnette
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| I just installed the speedbrake fix from IJ- it's very good! I put in the
FSSB mod as well, now that is something spectacular! still waiting on the
hall sensor for the throttle from cubpilot to arrive. Now, I have had my
Cougar for 4 years and have never had a problem with it. This year I decided
to upgrade it instead of my pc as it runs all current stuff fine, and whilst
expensive I feel it has been worth every penny. Didn't know that a throttle
mod is in development, must check Frugals. I have never used CH products
stuff so can't compare. But as Mitch_A said- it's hard to beat the feel of a
steel stick!
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| Don Burnette 2006-02-26, 7:52 pm |
| Carl wrote:
quote:
> I just installed the speedbrake fix from IJ- it's very good! I put in
> the FSSB mod as well, now that is something spectacular! still
> waiting on the hall sensor for the throttle from cubpilot to arrive.
> Now, I have had my Cougar for 4 years and have never had a problem
> with it. This year I decided to upgrade it instead of my pc as it
> runs all current stuff fine, and whilst expensive I feel it has been
> worth every penny. Didn't know that a throttle mod is in development,
> must check Frugals. I have never used CH products stuff so can't
> compare. But as Mitch_A said- it's hard to beat the feel of a steel
> stick!
Yes indeed. My Cougar stays on my desk, and I find myself regularly reaching
over and moving the stick even while just sitting here reading newsgroups
and emails.
The throttle mod is in very early development by IJ, he has promised once he
has the current run of NXT's done, he will start to devote some time to
getting it developed. There is a thread on Cougar World where he asked for
feedback from the community on what they would like to see.
--
Don Burnette
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| HockeyTownUSA 2006-02-26, 7:52 pm |
|
"Bob" <fake@fake.com> wrote in message
news:OEsKf.15231$2O6.6310@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
quote:
> Throttle and stick.
>
> Anyone have any comments on this? It 'looks' good to me, but I've been
> down that road before. BTW, Wal-Mart is the cheapest place to find it.
> About $200. Anyone know better?
>
> Thanks, Bob
>
While the Cougar is a real replica stick and throttle, I highly recommend
the CH Products Fighterstick Pro, Pro Throttle, and Pro Pedals USB. I have
tried the Cougar myself, and while thoroughly impressed at first due to the
metal construction, it just didn't have the right "feel". While many people
have spent another couple hundred bucks to have it modded so it was "right"
it just wasn't worth it to me.
Maybe you'll have better luck. If you're in the market for the CH Products
stuff, you can get it at newegg about as cheap as I could find:
Fighterstick: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16826169102
Throttle: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16826169106
Pedals: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16826169103
All said and done, it will probably cost you about $330.00 shipped.
Buy.com sells the same stuff, but they're a little bit more expensive.
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