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Home > Archive > Flight simulator > July 2005 > Rule, Britannia, Britannia rule the waves, Britons never will be slaves!
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Rule, Britannia, Britannia rule the waves, Britons never will be slaves!
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| bioderm 2005-07-07, 8:40 pm |
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"PAPADOC" <PAPADOC@jimbobs.drive.by> wrote in message
news:0karc1lkad7p98v0l98n0nscmqqf78hkq8@4ax.com...
quote:
> We are all Britons today.
>
> Pierre Legrand
>
> My Blog all about politics and the terror war.
> www.papadoc.net/PinkFlamingoBar.html
HOW ABOUT A BIG XXXX YEAH FOR ALL THE BLOGGERS OUT THERE WAGING TE WAR
AGAINST TERROR FROM THE SAFETY OF THEIR HOME COMPUTERS
AMERICA XXXX YEAH BABY FREEDOM REIGNS FREE MOTHERXXXXING ISLAMIC PIG
MUTHERXXXXERS
PAPDOC LETS PRACTICE BLOWING UP A-RABS WITH FALCON 4 ILL BRING THE
CHEETOES AND BEER
| |
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"bioderm" <shavolsky@ladavisky.com> wrote in message
news:11crbin6ho3gp52@corp.supernews.com...
quote:
>
> "PAPADOC" <PAPADOC@jimbobs.drive.by> wrote in message
> news:0karc1lkad7p98v0l98n0nscmqqf78hkq8@4ax.com...
>
>
> HOW ABOUT A BIG XXXX YEAH FOR ALL THE BLOGGERS OUT THERE WAGING TE WAR
> AGAINST TERROR FROM THE SAFETY OF THEIR HOME COMPUTERS
>
Are you suggesting everyone opposed to the terrorists should enlist?
quote:
>
> AMERICA XXXX YEAH BABY FREEDOM REIGNS FREE MOTHERXXXXING ISLAMIC PIG
> MUTHERXXXXERS
>
You have point there!
quote:
> PAPDOC LETS PRACTICE BLOWING UP A-RABS WITH FALCON 4 ILL BRING THE
> CHEETOES AND BEER
>
>
Really? Cool, but I'll pass on the Cheetos thank you.
Jarg
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| bioderm 2005-07-07, 8:40 pm |
|
"Jarg" <scottharringtons@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Wnize.2069$6%2.578@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
quote:
>
> "bioderm" <shavolsky@ladavisky.com> wrote in message
> news:11crbin6ho3gp52@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> Are you suggesting everyone opposed to the terrorists should enlist?
XXXX no! Instead they should be drafted! Freedom ain't free bro.
quote:
>
>
> You have point there!
>
>
>
>
> Really? Cool, but I'll pass on the Cheetos thank you.
>
> Jarg
How about Coolranch Dorritos?
| |
|
| Amen.
"PAPADOC" <PAPADOC@jimbobs.drive.by> wrote in message
news:0karc1lkad7p98v0l98n0nscmqqf78hkq8@4ax.com...
quote:
> We are all Britons today.
>
> Pierre Legrand
>
> My Blog all about politics and the terror war.
> www.papadoc.net/PinkFlamingoBar.html
| |
|
|
"bioderm" <shavolsky@ladavisky.com> wrote in message
news:11crbin6ho3gp52@corp.supernews.com...
quote:
> CHEETOES AND BEER
>
I don't know what you have against Cheetos and beer, but
I will make this easy for you.
{PLONK}
Allan
--
Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
| |
| leadfoot 2005-07-07, 8:40 pm |
| So does this prove that by invading Iraq that we would fight Al-Queda in
Iraq and not here or on our allies shores?
| |
| nospam@nospam.com 2005-07-07, 8:40 pm |
| Hey mister ALL CAPS...guess what XXXXXXX, civilians are in this war as
well. Or do you think that those people in the Tubes and on that Bus
were in the military?
Lucky us everyone is included in the front lines...
PAPDOC
quote:
>HOW ABOUT A BIG XXXX YEAH FOR ALL THE BLOGGERS OUT THERE WAGING TE WAR
>AGAINST TERROR FROM THE SAFETY OF THEIR HOME COMPUTERS
>
>
>AMERICA XXXX YEAH BABY FREEDOM REIGNS FREE MOTHERXXXXING ISLAMIC PIG
>MUTHERXXXXERS
>
>PAPDOC LETS PRACTICE BLOWING UP A-RABS WITH FALCON 4 ILL BRING THE
>CHEETOES AND BEER
>
| |
| nospam@nospam.com 2005-07-07, 8:40 pm |
| Yup because those pitiful bastards were only able to pull off that
pitiful stunt. Or how this guys puts it is a whole lot more eloquent.
http://flickr.com/photos/pottersys/...5/in/pool-bomb/
PAPADOC
quote:
>So does this prove that by invading Iraq that we would fight Al-Queda in
>Iraq and not here or on our allies shores?
>
>
| |
|
|
"PAPADOC" <PAPADOC@jimbobs.drive.by> wrote in message
news:0karc1lkad7p98v0l98n0nscmqqf78hkq8@4ax.com...
quote:
> We are all Britons today.
>
> Pierre Legrand
>
> My Blog all about politics and the terror war.
> www.papadoc.net/PinkFlamingoBar.html
From the Washington Post
"As Brits, we'll carry on _ it doesn't scare us at all," said 37-year-old
tour guide Michael Cahill. "Look, loads of people are walking down the
streets. It's Great Britain _ not called 'Great' for nothing."
| |
| leadfoot 2005-07-07, 8:40 pm |
|
<nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:m9erc1to17e056akrnoi0palrlnhaeaqlm@4ax.com...
quote:
> Yup because those pitiful bastards were only able to pull off that
> pitiful stunt. Or how this guys puts it is a whole lot more eloquent.
>
> http://flickr.com/photos/pottersys/...5/in/pool-bomb/
The URL is nice bravado but here are the facts.
Worldwide 27/7 news coverage. A critical potion of the London subway system
out for probably a good year. 40 innocent civilians dead, 700 wounded.
Hitting during the G-8 summit was probably the smartest thing they did since
a lot of antiterrrorism forces that would be in London are in Scotland .
I'd say Al-Queda had a very good day. Hell you could probably find Osama
Bin-Laden using a seismograph with his jumping up and down with joy.
My condolences to our allies in London Hope Tony Blair lights up another
brigade and sends it somewhere it can be used to do some good
quote:
>
> PAPADOC
>
>
| |
| Stockman91790@yahoo.com 2005-07-08, 12:32 am |
|
leadfoot wrote:
quote:
> <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:m9erc1to17e056akrnoi0palrlnhaeaqlm@4ax.com...
>
> The URL is nice bravado but here are the facts.
Here are some more facts:
During ww2 England lost a few more than the 40 killed and 700 wounded.
During the Blitz London was bombed day and night for a long time and
took it with a strong resolve not to break their spirit to fight.
We are in a war. We will take loses. To win this war we must kill
terrorists.
The sooner we understand this fact, the sooner we will start fighting
to win.
When people stop calling me a radical, blood thirsty maniac and start
believing what is clearly obvious, we will have turned the corner. Get
words like "capture", "defeat", "interrogate",etc. out of our
conversation and start calling it as it deserves- KILL ALL TERRORISTS.
I am not posting this just to see my words in print. My motive and
agenda is clear- we are all fighting this war- on the battlefields and
in our civilian lives.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Worldwide 27/7 news coverage. A critical potion of the London subway system
> out for probably a good year. 40 innocent civilians dead, 700 wounded.
> Hitting during the G-8 summit was probably the smartest thing they did since
> a lot of antiterrrorism forces that would be in London are in Scotland .
>
> I'd say Al-Queda had a very good day. Hell you could probably find Osama
> Bin-Laden using a seismograph with his jumping up and down with joy.
>
> My condolences to our allies in London Hope Tony Blair lights up another
> brigade and sends it somewhere it can be used to do some good
>
>
| |
| Eric The Viking 2005-07-08, 6:46 am |
| Agreed. If the morons that set off the bombs think they are going to
influence us as a nation then they don't know us at all.
Just wish I could be a fly on the wall when the boys from Sterling
Lines introduce those responsible to a double tap from Mr Heckler & Mr
Koch.
| |
|
| Andrew MacPherson <andrew.mcp@DELETETHISdsl.pipex.com> wrote in
news:42ce19f9$0$13701$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com:
quote:
> Many more people died of needless poverty
Too bad with all this Live8 nonsence nobodys really talking about the real
sources of poverty in the 3d world.
Chuck
--
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Benjamin Franklin
| |
|
| Stockman91790@yahoo.com wrote:
quote:
>
> During ww2 England...
If you want to talk facts England had nothing to do with WWII. It wasn't a
cricket match. England had/has no government or armed forces and dosen't
fight wars. It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northen
Ireland...the UK or Britain for short.
| |
| bernard spilman 2005-07-08, 8:35 pm |
|
"bioderm" <shavolsky@ladavisky.com> wrote in message
news:11crd4m3ifpkfd8@corp.supernews.com...
quote:
>
> "Jarg" <scottharringtons@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Wnize.2069$6%2.578@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> XXXX no! Instead they should be drafted! Freedom ain't free bro.
Ha! You'd see the college Republicans instantly transformed
into the Weather Underground.
WS
| |
| Steph 2005-07-09, 12:32 am |
|
"Andrew MacPherson" <andrew.mcp@DELETETHISdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:42ce19f9$0$13701$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
quote:
> In article <0karc1lkad7p98v0l98n0nscmqqf78hkq8@4ax.com>,
> PAPADOC@jimbobs.drive.by (PAPADOC) wrote:
>
>
> Calm down dear, it's only a few bombs. Thanks to Noraid we're used to it.
> The IRA used to do this kind of thing to us all the time.
>
And guess where most of their funding came from...................?
| |
| nospam@nospam.com 2005-07-09, 12:32 am |
| Yea but its such a great line...had to use it.
Well I will talk to my wife about the Noraid stuff since she is part
Irish...and part english.
PAPADOC
quote:
>Calm down dear, it's only a few bombs. Thanks to Noraid we're used to
>it. The IRA used to do this kind of thing to us all the time.
>
>Having said that, it has somewhat taken the gloss off a week in which
>seeing Pink Floyd (not in the flesh sadly) together made me happier than
>a very happy person on happy pills on National Happy Day.
>
>Andrew McP
>
>PS Obviously condolences to the bereaved & maimed. Individual misery is
>always awful no matter whether you're in London, Beslan, Darfour,
>Madrid, New York, or anywhere else. But the world didn't change
>yesterday. Many more people died of needless poverty than needless
>violence on the 7th of July. So I'm glad Blair got back up to the G8
>summit as soon as possible. Climate change and poverty are far more
>important than terrorism. It's like worrying about a gnat bite when
>you're tied to a railway track.
>
>PPS Must admit when I saw Blair get into a Chinook I was a bit concerned
>though. I mean, I despise the man since he took us to Iraq, but he's a
>decent human being at heart, and surely there were safer ways of getting
>him to the nearest airport?
| |
| Greg Cisko 2005-07-09, 12:32 am |
| Nice of you to stop by pal.
--
gcisko@hotmail.com
"PAPADOC" <PAPADOC@jimbobs.drive.by> wrote in message
news:0karc1lkad7p98v0l98n0nscmqqf78hkq8@4ax.com...
quote:
> We are all Britons today.
>
> Pierre Legrand
>
> My Blog all about politics and the terror war.
> www.papadoc.net/PinkFlamingoBar.html
| |
| Simon Robbins 2005-07-09, 6:32 am |
| "Greg Cisko" <gcisko@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qLSdnRZb9rtx3FLfRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
quote:
> Nice of you to stop by pal.
Heh.. The details of all those "Britons today" have all been passed on to
the Inland Revenue. Tax demands will be in the post soon..
Si
| |
| www.piaodown.com 2005-07-09, 8:32 pm |
| On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:02:48 -0700, "bioderm" <shavolsky@ladavisky.com>
wrote:
quote:
>
>"Jarg" <scottharringtons@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:Wnize.2069$6%2.578@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
>XXXX no! Instead they should be drafted! Freedom ain't free bro.
>
>
>
>
>How about Coolranch Dorritos?
>
If ya can find `em, try Zapps "Cajun Dill Gator Tators"
Villain
"A fool and his target are soon parted"
| |
| PAPADOC 2005-07-09, 8:32 pm |
|
hehe..Thanks Greg. Pretty funny about the taxes simon.
PAPADOC
quote:
>
>Heh.. The details of all those "Britons today" have all been passed on to
>the Inland Revenue. Tax demands will be in the post soon..
>
>Si
>
My Blog all about politics and the terror war.
www.papadoc.net/PinkFlamingoBar.html
| |
| scharmers@hotmail.com 2005-07-12, 12:33 am |
| I'll bring the "Support Our Troops" bumperstickers for the back of our
SUVs. 'Cuz, you know, nothing says true support like a bumpersticker.
Although a blog about the terror war ranks right up there.
** Love My Country **
** Fear My Government **
| |
| PAPADOC 2005-07-16, 12:33 am |
|
hehe...Scharmers simple mind that you are let me explain to you why it is
important to have a blog about the war on terror.
Because the only way this country ever loses wars is having assholes like you
attack our will to fight. Now admittedly my site doesnt reach a whole lot of
people all the time but from time to time I have made a difference in how more
than a couple of people have viewed the war. That is reason enough to justify it
in my mind....your mind doesnt count.
PAPADOC
quote:
>I'll bring the "Support Our Troops" bumperstickers for the back of our
>SUVs. 'Cuz, you know, nothing says true support like a bumpersticker.
>Although a blog about the terror war ranks right up there.
>
>** Love My Country **
>** Fear My Government **
My Blog all about politics and the terror war.
www.papadoc.net/PinkFlamingoBar.html
| |
| leadfoot 2005-07-16, 8:35 pm |
|
"PAPADOC" <PAPADOC@jimbobs.drive.by> wrote in message
news:jnmgd1d1t8fej762o50osrea4g5569pn5a@4ax.com...
quote:
>
> hehe...Scharmers simple mind that you are let me explain to you why it is
> important to have a blog about the war on terror.
>
> Because the only way this country ever loses wars is having assholes like
> you
> attack our will to fight. Now admittedly my site doesnt reach a whole lot
> of
> people all the time but from time to time I have made a difference in how
> more
> than a couple of people have viewed the war. That is reason enough to
> justify it
> in my mind....your mind doesnt count.
>
> PAPADOC
>
Ah yes PD proving ole Hermann was right again
"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in
England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all,
IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a
simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a
fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or
no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and
denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to
danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."
--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
| |
| leadfoot 2005-07-17, 8:32 pm |
|
"Briarroot" <woodsyl@iwon.com> wrote in message
news:11djed0dq10d36c@corp.supernews.com...
quote:
> leadfoot wrote:
>
> Are you trying to say that the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the
> Khobar Towers bombing in Dharan, Saudi Arabia in 1996, the US Embassy
> bombing in Nairobi in 1998, the attack on the USS Cole in 2000, and the
> September 11, 2001 attacks in New York and Washington DC, were all
> fictitious?
>
Are you telling me Saddam was behind them?
quote:
> <boggle>
| |
| leadfoot 2005-07-17, 8:32 pm |
|
"James Calivar" <amheiserbush@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:0hjCe.4807$oZ.854@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
quote:
> Briarroot wrote:
>
> From http://ramblingrhodes.mu.nu/archives/019722.html, an interesting
> analysis and dissection of this overhyped quote:
>
> "This Hermann Goering Quote Has Been Bothering Me
>
> I try to keep up with the anti-Iraq-war and anti-war-on-terror viewpoints
> because, as much as I continually believe I'm always right, I'm willing to
> acquiesce that sometimes, occasionally, other people may have something
> compelling to say that could change my mind. I thought such an occurence
> came about about a month ago when this Hermann Goering quote started
> making appearances all over the blogosphere.
>
> Goering, for those unfamiliar with history, was the Commander-in-Chief of
> the Luftwaffe in Nazi Germany during World War II. He said:
Acrually he was also one of the most vile and despicable creatures on earth
quote:
>
> "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of
> the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to
> drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or
> a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people
> can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you
> have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
> pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater
> danger."
>
> The emphasis here, of course, is usually provided by the folks who plop
> this quote on their blogs, and they wave this as proof that the Bush Jr.
> administration is dragging the U.S. along the same simple formula. As I've
> said before, I'm no huge fan of the Bush administration. Until they pull
> this economy out of the muck and start addressing, successfully, some of
> the problems here at home, that Texan won't earn my vote in '04.
>
> However, the real Bush haters, the ones who feel he stole an election and
> simply wages war for oil, are determined to transmogrify the man into a
> short angry leader with a wispy cookie duster moustache and a bad
> combover. They cry fascism any time the terror alert system clicks up a
> notch or a celebrity is chastised for blowing their ignorant blather.
>
> First, it should be noted that Goering was not a professional
> propagandist. That honor fell to Joseph Goebbels. Second, Goering did not
> utter that infamous quote during testimony at the Nuremburg Trials, as
> many believe. Rather, he was engaged in debate, while sitting in his cell,
> with an individual named Gustave Gilbert. Gilbert, who was given free
> access to the inmates awaiting sentencing, kept a journal of his
> conversations with the prisoners. So, in other words, you essentially have
> a condemned man, who is not a professional propagandist, lamenting his
> fate to whoever will listen, trying to deflect blame for his murderous
> role in history. Goering was not exactly an authority on anything at that
> point, in my opinion.
>
> But, let me pick apart the quote itself.
>
> Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the
> leaders.
>
> Well, not really. If there's one thing that Vietnam taught us, it's that
> people aren't necessarily mindless cows being trotted out to pasture and
> back. But, that was Vietnam. If we were to take Goering at his word here,
> today, with the Iraq conflict and the war on terror, we should have seen
> the resurrection of the draft with everyone clamboring to grab a rifle.
> But, that didn't happen
does the "silent majority" ring a bell? Anyway the sheep have been easlily
led by the Bush administration.
quote:
>
> All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
> pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater
> danger.
>
> The major problem here is that we weren't just TOLD we were being
> attacked. We WERE attacked. 9/11 wasn't some fluke navigational error. It
> was a coordinated assault on our home soil and our very way of life, and
> if you don't believe that, you've been watching too much American Idol and
> refusing to acknowledge the realities of the world today. If you really,
> truly, honestly believe that dreadful day was an isolated incident that
> couldn't possibly happen again, you seriously need a big steaming mug of
> "wake the XXXX up."
You need to differentiate between the war against AQ and the war against
Saddam. I fully supported Bush in Afghanistan. I think he was more
concerned with getting the guy who tried to kill his daddy in Iraq. And we
were told some real WHOPPERS by the Shrub administration to get us into
Iraq. Where are the WMD's? Where are the significant ties to AQ. The
smearing of Ambassador Wilson. Do you realize the damage that revealing his
wife as CIA agent has done? the loss of cover company that took years to
establish. That everyone overseas she came in contact with is in danger of
losing their life? Yeah lets " denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." Especially a true
American hero who faced down Saddam to save over 2000 American lives while
acting ambassador in Iraq in 1990. I don't think this is a man who has any
love for Saddam.
Those who the Goering quote refer to like say papadoc try to muddy the
waters here.by not differentiating between the two wars. I do have to tale
my hat off to guys like Goebb... er uh Papadoc. Their propaganda is simply
outstanding
quote:
>
> As for denouncing pacifists, the sword cuts both ways here. Well, yeah,
> pacifists have been denounced, but at the same time, war-proponents are
> subject to criticism, too. How many "peaceful" protests have turned ugly
> when the protestors tossed a rock through a store window sporting a
> "Liberate Iraq" sign, and how many 9/11 memorials have been defiled by the
> same?
Again you need to differentiate here. Lumping those who support the war on
terrorism but who believe Iraq is a big mistake prove the Goering quote
true.
quote:
>
> The crushing of dissent in both camps is alive and well, but you primarily
> hear about anti-war folks being denounced because, more often then not,
> they're high-profile celebrities spewing ignorance. Where do they get the
> idea that they're somehow an authority on anything but acting? I can just
> about imagine the repercussions if I were to use this magazine's weekly
> editorial meetings to ascend the pulpit and use the entire hour to spout
> off about the war. I certainly HOPE my co-workers would tell me to shut up
> and sit down, because it's not my job to express my opinions on world
> affairs; it's my job to write about high technology news. The same goes
> for celebs. Their job is to act, not subject everyone to their half-formed
> ideas about how the government works or doesn't work.
Like say Tom Selleck? Toby Keith? Chartlon Heston?
If you don't like it don't go and see the Dixie Chicks
quote:
>
> Take the Goering quote however you will, but I tend to view it as a
> stream-of-consciousness uttering from a desperate and destroyed man, not
> as an ominious denunciation of the current war on terror."
Even though Goering was as I said before a vile and despicable creature he
had to have something on the ball at one time to rise to CinC of the
Luftwaffe and for a long time number 2 behind ole dolph.
Its a denunciation of the war in Iraq not the war on terror.
I notice that the blog you lifted this from got the same hammering by the so
called "pacifist"
| |
|
| "leadfoot" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:jEqCe.35777$4o.2303
@fed1read06:
quote:
> Where are the significant ties to AQ. The
> smearing of Ambassador Wilson.
You might want to check out what the congressional reports have to say
about Wilson's trip to Niger. Wilson put his own XXX on the line when he
elevated his own ill-informed OPINION in a very public format. If he wants
to spout out about leaders behaving responsibly, he might want to look at
himself.
As for his wife, in his own book he reveals they've been stateside for many
years now, with some reports stating concern she was outed by Ames. Not to
mention the fact that it was apparently well known in Washington who his
"secret agent" wife was. Theres also been nothing in the news lately about
the initial reports of White House "shoping" this story around as we were
originally told. Wilsons own lies about who sent him to Niger is why he's
in trouble now. The dems are calling for blood now because when the
special prosecuter's done, theres gonna be no basis for this.
Chuck
--
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Benjamin Franklin
| |
| leadfoot 2005-07-17, 8:32 pm |
|
"Briarroot" <woodsyl@iwon.com> wrote in message
news:11dksabs9dao019@corp.supernews.com...
quote:
> leadfoot wrote:
>
> No
Thank you
| |
| leadfoot 2005-07-17, 8:32 pm |
|
"Chuck" <Nonyabiz@all.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96965BA50506Cnonyabizallcom@216.196.97.131...
quote:
> "leadfoot" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:jEqCe.35777$4o.2303
> @fed1read06:
>
Ah lets put the rest of that back in that you cut out. You weren't
embarrassed to put your words under this were you? I'm sure you were
concerned about the little electrons that might die unnecessarily. I sure
do hope no one DIED because Valerie Plame was outed.
Do you realize the damage that revealing his
wife as CIA agent has done? the loss of cover company that took years to
establish. That everyone overseas she came in contact with is in danger of
losing their life? Yeah lets " denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." Especially a true
American hero who faced down Saddam to save over 2000 American lives while
acting ambassador in Iraq in 1990. I don't think this is a man who has any
love for Saddam.
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> You might want to check out what the congressional reports have to say
> about Wilson's trip to Niger. Wilson put his own XXX on the line when he
> elevated his own ill-informed OPINION in a very public format. If he
> wants
> to spout out about leaders behaving responsibly, he might want to look at
> himself.
> As for his wife, in his own book he reveals they've been stateside for
> many
> years now, with some reports stating concern she was outed by Ames. Not
> to
> mention the fact that it was apparently well known in Washington who his
> "secret agent" wife was. Theres also been nothing in the news lately
> about
> the initial reports of White House "shoping" this story around as we were
> originally told. Wilsons own lies about who sent him to Niger is why he's
> in trouble now. The dems are calling for blood now because when the
> special prosecuter's done, theres gonna be no basis for this.
http://tinyurl.com/dayfl
From Bloomberg news
Wilson's Iraq Assertions Hold Up Under Fire From Rove Backers
July 14 (Bloomberg) -- Two-year old assertions by former ambassador Joseph
Wilson regarding Iraq and uranium, which lie at the heart of the controversy
over who at the White House identified a covert U.S. operative, have held up
in the face of attacks by supporters of presidential adviser Karl Rove.
Rove is a subject of a special prosecutor's investigation into how the name
of the agent, who is Wilson's wife, was leaked to journalists. There has
been no evidence made public that Rove identified the agent to reporters.
Rove's allies are arguing that he was in fact trying to steer journalists
away from taking too seriously Wilson's criticism of President George W.
Bush's reasons for going to war in Iraq in 2003.
The agent, Valerie Plame, was publicly identified July 14, 2003, a week
after Wilson wrote an article for the New York Times about an investigative
trip he took in 2002 at the behest of the Central Intelligence Agency.
Wilson wrote that the administration's claim that Saddam Hussein's regime
tried to buy uranium in Africa for nuclear weapons was wrong.
The main points of Wilson's article have largely been substantiated by a
Senate committee as well as U.S. and United Nations weapons inspectors. A
day after Wilson's piece was published, the White House acknowledged that a
claim Bush made in his January 2003 state of the union address that Iraq
tried to buy ``significant quantities of uranium from Africa'' could not be
verified and shouldn't have been included in the speech.
While the administration was justified at the time in being concerned that
Hussein was trying to build nuclear weapons, ``on the specifics of this I
think Joe Wilson was right,'' said Michael O'Hanlon, a scholar of foreign
policy studies at the Brookings Institution in Washington.
Criticism of Wilson
Republicans are attempting to defend Rove by discrediting Wilson, saying the
former ambassador misled the public about why he was sent to Niger and what
he found there.
Bush supporters such as former House Speaker Newt Gingrich contend that
Wilson lied in claiming that Vice President Dick Cheney dispatched him on
the mission to Niger. That echoes a Republican National Committee
talking-points memo sent to party officials.
Wilson never said that Cheney sent him, only that the vice president's
office had questions about an intelligence report that referred to the sale
of uranium yellowcake to Iraq from Niger. Wilson, in his New York Times
article, said CIA officials were informed of Cheney's questions.
``The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the
story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office,''
Wilson wrote.
Senate Report
The ``Wilson/Rove Research & Talking Points'' memo distributed by RNC
Director of Television Carolyn Weyforth contends, ``Both the Senate
Committee on Intelligence and the CIA found assessments Wilson made in his
report were wrong.''
Yet the Senate panel conclusions didn't discredit Wilson. The committee
concluded that the Niger intelligence information wasn't solid enough to be
included in the State of the Union speech. It added that Wilson's report
didn't change the minds of analysts on either side of the issue, while also
concluding that an October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate ``overstated
what the Intelligence Community knew about Iraq's possible procurement
attempts.''
Vulnerable
Wilson is vulnerable to some criticisms. The Republican talking points say
Wilson has lied about the role his wife played in his trip. In his memoir,
``The Politics of Truth,'' Wilson asserted his wife was not involved in the
decision to send him to Niger. ``Valerie had nothing to do with the
matter,'' he wrote. ``She definitely had not proposed that I make the
trip.''
The Senate Intelligence Committee report states that a CIA official told the
panel that Plame ``offered up'' Wilson's name for the Niger trip and later
sent a memo to a CIA official saying her husband had good relations with
leaders in Niger.
Republicans also dismiss Wilson as a partisan because of his ties to the
2004 presidential campaign of Democrat John Kerry, the four-term U.S.
senator from Massachusetts. He advised the Kerry campaign for several months
on foreign policy and donated money to his race.
The crux of Wilson's argument in his New York Times article was that some of
the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program -- a central part
of the Bush administration's justification for invading Iraq -- ``was
twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.'
'
Backing Away
Well before Wilson's article was published -- though after Bush's State of
the Union address -- administration officials were backing off the
contention that Iraq sought nuclear material from Africa.
On Feb. 4, 2003, State Department officials gave the UN's International
Atomic Energy Agency information it requested about Iraq's attempts to
obtain uranium from Niger. It told the agency that it could not confirm the
reports and had questions about specific claims
..
The next day, Secretary of State Colin Powell presented evidence, based on
U.S. intelligence, about Iraq's prohibited weapons program to the UN
Security Council. He didn't mention Iraqi attempts to obtain uranium from
Africa.
On March 7, IAEA Director General Mohamed ElBaradei told the UN Security
Council that the documents that detailed uranium transactions between Iraq
and Niger were ``not authentic'' and ``these specific allegations are
unfounded.'' On March 9, Powell acknowledged that the documents were false.
The U.S. launched the invasion of Iraq on March 19.
A White House Concession
Finally, in July 2003, after Wilson's piece was published, the White House
conceded that the uranium assertion should not have been included in the
president's speech. Several administration officials have accepted
responsibility for allowing it into the speech, including Condoleezza Rice,
then the national security adviser and now secretary of state; Stephen
Hadley, then Rice's deputy and now the national security adviser; and
then-CIA Director George Tenet.
In October 2002, as the White House was reviewing drafts of a speech Bush
would give in Cincinnati on Oct. 7, the allegation that Iraq sought
``substantial amounts of uranium oxide'' from Africa was removed after Tenet
called Hadley to raise doubts about the information. On Oct. 5 and 6, the
CIA sent memorandums to the White House expressing concerns about the Niger
intelligence and differences on it between the U.S. and British spy
agencies.
Novak's Column
Plame's identity was first revealed July 14, 2003, by syndicated columnist
Robert Novak, who cited two unidentified administration officials as his
sources for the information
..
Knowingly disclosing the identity of a covert agent is a federal crime, and
that is the subject of special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's
investigation. Part of that probe is seeking information about confidential
sources from reporters.
Rove's name surfaced in a July 11, 2003, e-mail from a Time magazine
reporter to his editor that was disclosed this week by Newsweek magazine.
The memo says Rove gave a ``big warning'' about pursuing Wilson's claims and
said it was ``Wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on WMD
issues who authorized'' Wilson's trip to Niger, according to Newsweek.
Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, said yesterday that Rove has done ``nothing to
expose him to any legal liability.''
End article
BTW as far as Karl Rove is concerned I'll wait until the Fitzgerald report
is out.
quote:
>
> Chuck
....and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to
danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."
-Goering
You might try a different Benjamin Franklin quote
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Nothing wrong with beer though ;-).
quote:
>
> --
> Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
> Benjamin Franklin
| |
|
| "leadfoot" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
news:FOuCe.35783$4o.32971@fed1read06:
quote:
>
> "Chuck" <Nonyabiz@all.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns96965BA50506Cnonyabizallcom@216.196.97.131...
>
> Ah lets put the rest of that back in that you cut out. You weren't
> embarrassed to put your words under this were you? I'm sure you were
No, I'm just focusing on ONE wrong part of your ramblings, if I focused on
all of them it would take more time than I felt like investing.
Nice little strawman you constructed with the "significant" there. At
least you were smart enough not to use an absolute statement. You'll
excuse me if I don't list a bunch of links just for you to hide under the
"that's not a significant tie" bullshit. Or just XXXXing ignore like you
did to Briarroot.
quote:
> concerned about the little electrons that might die unnecessarily. I
> sure do hope no one DIED because Valerie Plame was outed.
>
And yet, who was so eager to put her picture out for in the public, hint:
it wasn't Rove or the admin, it was Wilson, sensing partisan gain. Do you
really think, if she was a "secret agent", plastering her pic all over
Vanity Fair was a great idea....given they were SO concerned about all the
contacts she had (yes, that was sarcasm)
quote:
> Do you realize the damage that revealing his
> wife as CIA agent has done? the loss of cover company that took years
> to establish. That everyone overseas she came in contact with is in
> danger of losing their life? Yeah lets " denounce the pacifists for
> lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
> Especially a true American hero who faced down Saddam to save over
> 2000 American lives while acting ambassador in Iraq in 1990. I don't
> think this is a man who has any love for Saddam.
When you can verifiably quantify this "damage", I might agree with you. And
if she was already outed by Ames? Believe it of not, I don't agree with
anyone "outing" a secret agent. But it's very far from established that
thats what happened here, and I really dont know what Wilson expected given
the lies he was telling about why he was sent...etc. It's becoming more
and more apparent that the tale of the White House shoping this story
around to "get" Wilson looks like bullshit, at least as far as Cooper's
reports.
quote:
>
>
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/dayfl
>
> From Bloomberg news
>
Seems some have a problem with Bloomburg's statements:
http://www.gopbloggers.org/mt/archives/001601.html
Bloomberg News has an article misleadingly titled "Wilson's Iraq Assertions
Hold Up Under Fire From Rove Backers." Either it is extraordinarily shoddy
reporting by incompetent writers, or it is an old-fashioned partisan
hatchet job. You be the judge.
Joseph Wilson was tasked to do one thing: travel to Niger to determine
whether Iraq had indeed made overtures to acquire uranium as the CIA
suspected. Here is how Bloomberg summarizes it:
Wilson wrote an article for the New York Times about an investigative
trip he took in 2002 at the behest of the Central Intelligence Agency.
Wilson wrote that the administration's claim that Saddam Hussein's regime
tried to buy uranium in Africa for nuclear weapons was wrong.
The main points of Wilson's article have largely been substantiated by
a Senate committee as well as U.S. and United Nations weapons inspectors.
In fact, Wilson has been thoroughly discredited by two special inquiries,
one in the U.S. and one in the U.K. First, the bi-partisan Senate
Intelligence Committee's July 7, 2004 report:
-The Committee report notes that the CIA intelligence report "did not
refute the possibility that Iraq had approached Niger to purchase
uranium." (page 44)
-The Committee report notes that Wilson admitted that he may have
"misspoken" or become "confused" about documents he claimed were forged,
since he never saw them (page 45)
-Undermining Wilson's claim to have debunked the Niger-uranium story,
the Committee report states that "DIA and CIA analysts said that when they
saw the intelligence report they did not believe that it supplied much new
information and did not think that it clarified the story on the alleged
Iraq-Niger uranium deal." (page 46)
-And, disproving critics who claim the Administration twisted the
intelligence or ignored it altogether, the Committee report states that
"Because CIA analysts did not believe that the report added any new
information to clarify the issue...CIA's briefer did not brief the Vice
President on the report, despite the Vice President's previous questions
about the issue." (page 46)
-And, despite Wilson's assertions that his wife had nothing to do with
his selection for the mission, the Committee report finds that "the former
ambassador's wife 'offered up his name' and a memorandum to the Deputy
Chief of the CPD [Counter-Proliferation, where Wilson's wife worked] on
February 12, 2002, from the former ambassador's wife says, 'my husband has
good relations with the PM and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention
lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this
sort of activity." (page 39)
The British Government also conducted a special inquiry, led by Lord
Butler, which concluded that:
the statement in President Bush's State of the Union Address of 28
January 2003 that (page 123):
The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently
sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.
was well-founded.
So, Bloomberg claims that "the administration's claim that Saddam Hussein's
regime tried to buy uranium in Africa for nuclear weapons was wrong" and
that Wilson's main points have "largely been substantiated." Here we have
shown, with documentation, that Bloomberg is either wrong or lying.
So there should be no illusions about this issue. Wilson's claims that Iraq
did not approach Niger to buy uranium are false. His claims that his wife
had nothing to do with his selection is false. Bloomberg's perpetuation of
Wilson as a credible source is either a revelation of ineptitude or proof
of bias.
End quote.
Another interesting look at the "outing":
http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?
ref=/may/may200507150827.asp
And another on poor Joe:
"Plame security breach? It just ain't so, Joe"
http://www.suntimes.com/output/stey...dt-steyn17.html
quote:
> BTW as far as Karl Rove is concerned I'll wait until the Fitzgerald
> report is out.
>
>
> ...and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing
> the country to
> danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."
>
>
>
> -Goering
>
> You might try a different Benjamin Franklin quote
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"
>
Although occasionally attributed to Franklin, I'm not sure the real source
is known. I'll stick with the beer one.
Chuck
quote:
> Nothing wrong with beer though ;-).
>
>
>
>
>
--
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Benjamin Franklin
| |
|
| "leadfoot" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
news:lxuCe.35781$4o.584@fed1read06:
quote:
>
> "Briarroot" <woodsyl@iwon.com> wrote in message
> news:11dksabs9dao019@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
What a XXXXing hypocrite. Do these words ring a bell.
"Ah lets put the rest of that back in that you cut out. You weren't
embarrassed to put your words under this were you?"
Either a very good troll, or a very blind ideologue.
Chuck
--
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Benjamin Franklin
| |
| leadfoot 2005-07-18, 8:35 pm |
|
quote:
> No, I'm just focusing on ONE wrong part of your ramblings, if I focused on
> all of them it would take more time than I felt like investing.
>
> Nice little strawman you constructed with the "significant" there. At
> least you were smart enough not to use an absolute statement. You'll
> excuse me if I don't list a bunch of links just for you to hide under the
> "that's not a significant tie" bullshit. Or just XXXXing ignore like you
> did to Briarroot.
You simply mean that you can;t come up with a significant link that's
ultimately worth 3000 american lives, 20-30,000 maimed, and 4-500B$ and an
Iraq in three pieces
quote:
>
>
> And yet, who was so eager to put her picture out for in the public, hint:
> it wasn't Rove or the admin, it was Wilson, sensing partisan gain. Do you
> really think, if she was a "secret agent", plastering her pic all over
> Vanity Fair was a great idea....given they were SO concerned about all the
> contacts she had (yes, that was sarcasm)
Her cover was blown, do you think it's that hard for our enemies to
photograph the Ambassadors wife once they know who whe is? What XXXXing
planet are you living on???
quote:
>
>
> When you can verifiably quantify this "damage", I might agree with you.
> And
> if she was already outed by Ames? Believe it of not, I don't agree with
> anyone "outing" a secret agent. But it's very far from established that
> thats what happened here, and I really dont know what Wilson expected
> given
> the lies he was telling about why he was sent...etc. It's becoming more
> and more apparent that the tale of the White House shoping this story
> around to "get" Wilson looks like bullshit, at least as far as Cooper's
> reports.
>
>
> Seems some have a problem with Bloomburg's statements:
>
> http://www.gopbloggers.org/mt/archives/001601.html
>
>
here is the oped by wilson
Where are the lies?
Published on Sunday, July 6, 2003 by the New York Times
What I Didn't Find in Africa
by Joseph C. Wilson 4th
Did the Bush administration manipulate intelligence about Saddam Hussein's
weapons programs to justify an invasion of Iraq?
Based on my experience with the administration in the months leading up to
the war, I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence
related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the
Iraqi threat.
For 23 years, from 1976 to 1998, I was a career foreign service officer and
ambassador. In 1990, as chargé d'affaires in Baghdad, I was the last
American diplomat to meet with Saddam Hussein. (I was also a forceful
advocate for his removal from Kuwait.) After Iraq, I was President George H.
W. Bush's ambassador to Gabon and São Tomé and Príncipe; under President
Bill Clinton, I helped direct Africa policy for the National Security
Council.
It was my experience in Africa that led me to play a small role in the
effort to verify information about Africa's suspected link to Iraq's
nonconventional weapons programs. Those news stories about that unnamed
former envoy who went to Niger? That's me.
In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence
Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a
particular intelligence report. While I never saw the report, I was told
that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of
uranium yellowcake - a form of lightly processed ore - by Niger to Iraq in
the late 1990's. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to
check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president's
office.
After consulting with the State Department's African Affairs Bureau (and
through it with Barbro Owens-Kirkpatrick, the United States ambassador to
Niger), I agreed to make the trip. The mission I undertook was discreet but
by no means secret. While the C.I.A. paid my expenses (my time was offered
pro bono), I made it abundantly clear to everyone I met that I was acting on
behalf of the United States government.
In late February 2002, I arrived in Niger's capital, Niamey, where I had
been a diplomat in the mid-70's and visited as a National Security Council
official in the late 90's. The city was much as I remembered it. Seasonal
winds had clogged the air with dust and sand. Through the haze, I could see
camel caravans crossing the Niger River (over the John F. Kennedy bridge),
the setting sun behind them. Most people had wrapped scarves around their
faces to protect against the grit, leaving only their eyes visible.
The next morning, I met with Ambassador Owens-Kirkpatrick at the embassy.
For reasons that are understandable, the embassy staff has always kept a
close eye on Niger's uranium business. I was not surprised, then, when the
ambassador told me that she knew about the allegations of uranium sales to
Iraq - and that she felt she had already debunked them in her reports to
Washington. Nevertheless, she and I agreed that my time would be best spent
interviewing people who had been in government when the deal supposedly took
place, which was before her arrival.
I spent the next eight days drinking sweet mint tea and meeting with dozens
of people: current government officials, former government officials, people
associated with the country's uranium business. It did not take long to
conclude that it was highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever
taken place.
Given the structure of the consortiums that operated the mines, it would be
exceedingly difficult for Niger to transfer uranium to Iraq. Niger's uranium
business consists of two mines, Somair and Cominak, which are run by French,
Spanish, Japanese, German and Nigerian interests. If the government wanted
to remove uranium from a mine, it would have to notify the consortium, which
in turn is strictly monitored by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Moreover, because the two mines are closely regulated, quasi-governmental
entities, selling uranium would require the approval of the minister of
mines, the prime minister and probably the president. In short, there's
simply too much oversight over too small an industry for a sale to have
transpired.
(As for the actual memorandum, I never saw it. But news accounts have
pointed out that the documents had glaring errors - they were signed, for
example, by officials who were no longer in government - and were probably
forged. And then there's the fact that Niger formally denied the charges.)
Before I left Niger, I briefed the ambassador on my findings, which were
consistent with her own. I also shared my conclusions with members of her
staff. In early March, I arrived in Washington and promptly provided a
detailed briefing to the C.I.A. I later shared my conclusions with the State
Department African Affairs Bureau. There was nothing secret or
earth-shattering in my report, just as there was nothing secret about my
trip.
Though I did not file a written report, there should be at least four
documents in United States government archives confirming my mission. The
documents should include the ambassador's report of my debriefing in Niamey,
a separate report written by the embassy staff, a C.I.A. report summing up
my trip, and a specific answer from the agency to the office of the vice
president (this may have been delivered orally). While I have not seen any
of these reports, I have spent enough time in government to know that this
is standard operating procedure.
I thought the Niger matter was settled and went back to my life. (I did take
part in the Iraq debate, arguing that a strict containment regime backed by
the threat of force was preferable to an invasion.) In September 2002,
however, Niger re-emerged. The British government published a "white paper"
asserting that Saddam Hussein and his unconventional arms posed an immediate
danger. As evidence, the report cited Iraq's attempts to purchase uranium
from an African country.
Then, in January, President Bush, citing the British dossier, repeated the
charges about Iraqi efforts to buy uranium from Africa.
The next day, I reminded a friend at the State Department of my trip and
suggested that if the president had been referring to Niger, then his
conclusion was not borne out by the facts as I understood them. He replied
that perhaps the president was speaking about one of the other three African
countries that produce uranium: Gabon, South Africa or Namibia. At the time,
I accepted the explanation. I didn't know that in December, a month before
the president's address, the State Department had published a fact sheet
that mentioned the Niger case.
Those are the facts surrounding my efforts. The vice president's office
asked a serious question. I was asked to help formulate the answer. I did
so, and I have every confidence that the answer I provided was circulated to
the appropriate officials within our government.
The question now is how that answer was or was not used by our political
leadership. If my information was deemed inaccurate, I understand (though I
would be very interested to know why). If, however, the information was
ignored because it did not fit certain preconceptions about Iraq, then a
legitimate argument can be made that we went to war under false pretenses.
(It's worth remembering that in his March "Meet the Press" appearance, Mr.
Cheney said that Saddam Hussein was "trying once again to produce nuclear
weapons.") At a minimum, Congress, which authorized the use of military
force at the president's behest, should want to know if the assertions about
Iraq were warranted.
I was convinced before the war that the threat of weapons of mass
destruction in the hands of Saddam Hussein required a vigorous and sustained
international response to disarm him. Iraq possessed and had used chemical
weapons; it had an active biological weapons program and quite possibly a
nuclear research program - all of which were in violation of United Nations
resolutions. Having encountered Mr. Hussein and his thugs in the run-up to
the Persian Gulf war of 1991, I was only too aware of the dangers he posed.
But were these dangers the same ones the administration told us about? We
have to find out. America's foreign policy depends on the sanctity of its
information. For this reason, questioning the selective use of intelligence
to justify the war in Iraq is neither idle sniping nor "revisionist
history," as Mr. Bush has suggested. The act of war is the last option of a
democracy, taken when there is a grave threat to our national security. More
than 200 American soldiers have lost their lives in Iraq already. We have a
duty to ensure that their sacrifice came for the right reasons
| |
| leadfoot 2005-07-18, 8:35 pm |
|
"Chuck" <Nonyabiz@all.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9696AEB06C651nonyabizallcom@216.196.97.131...
quote:
> "leadfoot" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
> news:lxuCe.35781$4o.584@fed1read06:
>
>
> What a XXXXing hypocrite. Do these words ring a bell.
>
>
> "Ah lets put the rest of that back in that you cut out. You weren't
> embarrassed to put your words under this were you?"
>
> Either a very good troll, or a very blind ideologue.
Troll??? I'll take that as a compliment. Welcome to the big leagues
I wanted to be easy on poor briarroot bis since you insist I'll put his
garbage back here
No, but Saddam *was* an active supporter of several Islamic terror
groups. So long as they did not oppose his own regime, he offered them
asylum and even funded their activities using money skimmed from the UN
'Oil for Food' program. When Zarqawi, an Al-Qaida lieutenant, was
kicked out of Iran in 2002, he fled to Iraq where he organized a
splinter wing of Al-Qaida which has been so active since the end of
formal hostilities..
My rebuttal
http://tinyurl.com/4br79
Rumsfeld claims the US government has "bulletproof" confirmation of ties
between Baghdad and al-Qaeda members, including "solid evidence" that al
Qaeda maintains a presence in Iraq. The allegation refers to Abu Mussab Al
Zarqawi, a Jordanian-born Palestinian who is the founder of al-Tawhid, an
organization whose aim is to kill Jews and install an Islamic regime in
Jordan (see Late 2001-May 2002). No evidence ever surfaces to suggest that
the group works with al-Qaeda. Rumsfeld's statement is based on intercepted
telephone calls in which Al Zarqawi was overheard calling friends or
relatives. But Knight Ridder Newspapers reports that according to US
intelligence officials, "The intercepts provide no evidence that the
suspected terrorist was working with the Iraqi regime or that he was working
on a terrorist operation while he was in Iraq." [Knight Ridder Newspapers,
10/7/02 Sources: Unnamed US Intelligence Officials] Shortly after the
Defense Secretary's allegations, an unnamed intelligence official tells the
Guardian, "They are not the official guests of the Government," adding that
any members of militant Islamist organizations in the region are still "on
the run." [Guardian, 8/22/02]
Tou can also read this on zarqawi
http://tinyurl.com/d4623
quote:
>
> Chuck
>
> --
> Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
> Benjamin Franklin
| |
| David CL Francis 2005-07-18, 8:35 pm |
| On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 at 03:44:33 in message
<jEqCe.35777$4o.2303@fed1read06>, leadfoot <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
quote:
>Even though Goering was as I said before a vile and despicable creature he
>had to have something on the ball at one time to rise to CinC of the
>Luftwaffe and for a long time number 2 behind ole dolph.
He did, he had a good flying war record from WW1, he was friend of
Hitler and he supported him.
However he seems to have had an immense ego and indulged himself. He was
the only member of the Nazi hierarchy to wear a white uniform at all
times. Perhaps he removed it in the bath? :-)
I cannot see why any of his pronouncements should be given any weight.
Interesting to show his mindset perhaps.
--
David CL Francis
| |
|
| "leadfoot" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:xwSCe.41399$4o.32877
@fed1read06:
quote:
>
>
Whats wrong leadfoot, cant address the critisism's? Since we know how
honorable you are (cough,cough) dont' forget your recent feelings:
"Ah lets put the rest of that back in that you cut out. You weren't
embarrassed to put your words under this were you?"
Anyway, its obvious your a blind ideologe, and there's no sence addressing
it with you, and you probably feel the same way about me...but the biggest
demostrable liar in this whole thing is Wilson.
Chuck
--
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Benjamin Franklin
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| leadfoot 2005-07-18, 8:35 pm |
|
"Chuck" <Nonyabiz@all.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9697C398753FDnonyabizallcom@216.196.97.131...
quote:
> "leadfoot" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in news:xwSCe.41399$4o.32877
> @fed1read06:
>
>
> Whats wrong leadfoot, cant address the critisism's? Since we know how
> honorable you are (cough,cough) dont' forget your recent feelings:
>
> "Ah lets put the rest of that back in that you cut out. You weren't
> embarrassed to put your words under this were you?"
>
> Anyway, its obvious your a blind ideologe, and there's no sence addressing
> it with you, and you probably feel the same way about me...but the biggest
> demostrable liar in this whole thing is Wilson.
>
> Chuck
What's the matter Chuck? Poor little baby. Can't find any lies in Wilsons
Op-ed piece?
quote:
>
> --
> Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
> Benjamin Franklin
| |
| leadfoot 2005-07-18, 8:35 pm |
|
"Briarroot" <woodsyl@iwon.com> wrote in message
news:11doejg3ci9tc5e@corp.supernews.com...
quote:
> leadfoot wrote:
>
> You can't tell the players without a scorecard. Here are 2 (of many) AP
> reports from 2003.
I wionder who their source was? I bet his initials are Karl Rove.
quote:
>
> Mar 8, 6:16 PM (ET) By JOHN L. LUMPKIN (Associated Press)
>
> "WASHINGTON (AP) - Al-Qaida operatives are planning to strike at U.S.
> and allied forces taking part in a war in Iraq, according to information
> acquired by American intelligence agencies, counter-terrorism officials
> said Saturday. The operatives are subordinates of Abu Musab Zarqawi,
> whom CIA officials describe as a senior associate of Osama bin Laden.
> Some are in Baghdad; others are elsewhere in Iraq, the counter-terrorism
> officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
>
> The intelligence does not suggest any kind of coordination between the
> government of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and the al-Qaida
> operatives; instead officials believe the terrorists are looking to
> capitalize on the chaos created by any military conflict to strike at
> American and allied troops. A CIA report, passed to senior government
> officials last week, warned of the potential strikes.
>
> A CIA spokesman declined to comment. The New York Times first reported
> the information Saturday on its Web site. The counter-terrorism
> officials said operatives may be planning to use explosives or toxins to
> conduct the attack.
>
> The new information comes against a murky backdrop regarding whether
> Iraq supports al-Qaida, or to what extent there are ties.
>
> However, intelligence officials have generally agreed they have nothing
> to document that Saddam Hussein had a hand in the Sept. 11, 2001,
> attacks or that Saddam and Osama bin Laden are coordinating terrorist
> operations.
>
> At the center of U.S. allegations that there are links between Iraq and
> the terrorist group is Zarqawi, a Jordanian terrorist
> operative, and some of his followers.
>
> CIA Director George Tenet and others have described Zarqawi as a senior
> associate of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, but officials acknowledge
> some difference of opinion within U.S. intelligence whether it is
> correct to describe him as a member
> of the organization.
>
> Zarqawi has been linked to the failed millennium bombing of a tourist
> hotel in Jordan and the killing of an American diplomat
> in Amman in October.
>
> According to U.S. officials, Zarqawi was in Baghdad last summer,
> presumably with the knowledge of Iraqi officials. Some of his
> people are still there. Zarqawi is also linked to an Islamic extremist
> group in northern Iraq, Ansar al-Islam, that operates
> in a region outside of Saddam's control.
>
> An agent from Iraq's government is working for Ansar, Secretary of State
> Colin Powell said in a Feb. 5 presentation to the U.N.
> Security Council. Powell said this agent had offered safe haven to some
> al-Qaida operatives in the region.
>
> But Powell omitted an important point: U.S. officials later acknowledged
> they don't know what this Iraqi operative is doing with Ansar al-Islam,
> and they do not know whether Ansar is aware he works for the Iraqi
> government.
>
> While the agent could be openly representing Saddam's government, he
> also could be spying on the group for Saddam's security services,
> officials said.
>
> According to intelligence officials, Zarqawi believes he is operating
> independently of al-Qaida's chain of command. But
> they say while he manages his own network of followers, he relies on
> al-Qaida money and logistical support, making him
> - in effect if not in reality - a lieutenant of bin Laden.
>
> What is known, according to Powell, Tenet and other officials: Zarqawi
> was around Herat in western Afghanistan in October 2001, when the U.S.
> attacked the Taliban and their al-Qaida allies. He ran a camp in the
> region that experimented with poisons and chemical weapons.
>
> Officials say he may have been wounded in the leg, probably by U.S.
> bombing. He crossed the border into Iran, where he reportedly received
> some medical treatment. U.S. intelligence learned of his presence there,
> prompting Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in April 2002 to accuse Iran
> of sheltering al-Qaida terrorists.
>
> The following month, Zarqawi went to Baghdad. The reasons for his
> departure from Iran are unclear, but he received more medical treatment
> in Baghdad, possibly being fitted with a prosthetic leg, and stayed
> there two months.
>
> While he was in Baghdad, about two dozen of his followers moved to the
> city. Some are still there, including two senior members of Egyptian
> Islamic Jihad, a terrorist network that merged with al-Qaida during the
> last few years.
>
> U.S. officials say Saddam's security apparatus is too effective for them
> not to know Zarqawi and his followers were in town. But
> no officials claimed evidence that Zarqawi and the Iraqis are actively
> working together to conduct terrorist attacks.
>
> U.S. intelligence learned of Zarqawi's presence in Baghdad while he was
> there, and a friendly foreign government twice asked
> Baghdad about him and was rebuffed both times. Zarqawi left shortly
> after the inquiries.
>
> Iraqi Foreign Minister Naji Sabri said Baghdad had no ties to Ansar
> al-Islam, nor to an alleged al-Qaida fugitive Abu Musab Zarqawi.
>
> In July, shortly after the foreign government's inquiries, Zarqawi left
> Baghdad. U.S. defense officials said he was later reported in Syria.
> Officials suspect he also went to northern Iraq where Saddam holds
> little authority.
>
> In that region, his followers, working with Kurdish members of Ansar
> al-Islam, established a new camp to research poisons and make
> explosives. They trained others in the production of ricin, a poison
> that can be used as a biological weapon.
>
> Their ties were widespread, spanning the countries of Georgia, France,
> Spain, Great Britain, Russia and possibly Italy.
>
> European authorities have arrested 116 members of Zarqawi's extended
> network, including members of a British cell that was believed to be
> making ricin in a London apartment.
>
> Zarqawi's whereabouts are unknown.
>
> His time in Baghdad is not the only link claimed by U.S. officials.
> Others include:
>
> _An al-Qaida source said Saddam and bin Laden agreed not to oppose each
> other in the mid-1990s.
>
> _Senior representatives of both organizations met at least eight times
> since the early 1990s. This includes a trip by Iraq's
> ambassador to Turkey to Afghanistan in 1998.
>
> _An Iraqi intelligence operative turned defector said Saddam sent agents
> to Afghanistan to provide training to al-Qaida in document forgery.
>
> _An al-Qaida training camp commander from Afghanistan, now in U.S.
> custody, said al-Qaida sought chemical and biological weapons training
> from Iraq between 1997 and 2000." ...
>
>
> followed up by this one:
>
>
> Apr 30, 2003 4:36 PM (ET)
>
> By MAGGIE MICHAEL (Associate Press)
>
> DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) - A tape purportedly made by al-Qaida
> operative Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi acknowledged his group was behind a
> failed plot to destroy Jordan's secret service headquarters and warned
> the U.S.-allied government it faced "terrifying events."
>
> But the speaker on the seven-minute audiotape aired Friday denied having
> a chemical weapon, as Jordanian officials claim. Jordanian state
> television has broadcast confessions by militants allegedly linked to
> al-Zarqawi in which they say the group was plotting al-Qaida's first
> chemical bomb attack.
>
> The speaker on the tape, who introduced himself as Musab al-Zarqawi,
> called the allegation of a chemical bomb attack "a mere lie."
>
> "God knows, if we did possess it, we wouldn't hesitate one second to use
> it to hit Israeli cities, such as Eilat and Tel Aviv," the speaker said.
>
> The tape was broadcast on an Internet site known as a clearinghouse for
> statements by al-Qaida and other extremist groups. Excerpts also were
> broadcast by the Dubai-based Al-Arabiya news channel.
>
> Earlier this week, a purported al-Zarqawi statement appeared on the same
> Web site claiming responsibility for an April 24 suicide boat attack on
> Iraq's oil terminal in the Persian Gulf that killed three American
> service members..
>
> The speaker on Friday's tape said the Jordanian General Intelligence
> building was targeted for attack because "Jordan has turned itself into
> a hidden base of supplies for the occupying army in Iraq."
>
> The building also housed a "big database used by the enemy of Islam to
> track down holy warriors," the voice said. The speaker dubbed the
> structure the "Arabs' Guantanamo," referring to the prison for terrorist
> suspects at the U.S. Navy base in Cuba.
>
> The voice on Friday's tape could not immediately be authenticated as
> that of al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian wanted by the United States for
> allegedly organizing terrorists to fight U.S. troops in Iraq on behalf
> of al-Qaida.
>
> The United States has offered a $10 million reward for al-Zarqawi's
> capture. He is believed to be a close associate of Osama bin Laden and
> is known as an expert in poisons.
>
> Al-Zarqawi also is blamed for orchestrating the 2002 assassination of
> U.S. aid worker Laurence Foley, 60, outside his Amman home. Al-Zarqawi
> was sentenced to death in absentia by a Jordanian military court.
>
> Security forces smashed the terror cell plotting attacks against targets
> inside Jordan by arresting six militants in at least two raids over the
> past month, Jordanian officials said.
>
> Four other militants died last week in a shootout with police in Amman.
>
> The militants allegedly planned to strike other buildings in Amman, such
> as the U.S. Embassy and the prime minister's office, officials said.
>
> The speaker on the tape said that while Jordan foiled this plot, his
> group has more in store for the kingdom.
>
> "The battle between us and the Jordanian government has its ups and
> downs," he said. "Terrifying events are awaiting you."
>
> He said the four men shown on Jordanian television had been tortured
> into confessing, and named Azmi al-Jayousi, the alleged leader of the
> plot, who confessed that he reported to al-Zarqawi.
>
> "The torture marks on the face and hands of brother (al-Jayousi) were
> very obvious," the voice said.
>
> In Tuesday's broadcast, al-Jayousi's right eye and cheek were slightly
> swollen, and he had scars on his right hand and scratches on his neck.
>
> The discovery of the plots caused widespread fear in Jordan, a moderate
> Arab nation that is closely allied to the United States, has a peace
> treaty with Israel and enjoys relative stability in the volatile Middle
> East.
>
> But the kingdom's close ties with the West have placed it in the
> cross-hairs of Islamic militants in the past.
>
> Twenty-two Arab men were convicted in a terror plot that targeted U.S.
> and Israeli tourists in the 2000 millennium celebrations in Jordan."
>
>
> The bottom line is that Saddam allowed Islamic terrorists asylum and
> support in Iraq in exchange for them leaving his regime alone.
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