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| Author |
Future of flight sims?
|
|
| Anthony 2004-12-17, 6:46 am |
| So anyhting good coming out soon? I miss the tons we used to have like F-15
by janes M1 tank platoon 1 and 2, and others. Wish we could have our dream
game graphics as good as doom 3 and half life 2 but a flgith sim with
COMPLETE avonics. I want a manual as thick as my falcon 4.0 book. Maybe make
it a carrier sim or something hmmmmm
Anthony
| |
|
| On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 04:31:42 GMT, "Mitch_A" <naman-nospam@pacbell.net>
wrote:
quote:
>Ghosting was the main reason I quit playing AA.
I have never played AA. What's "ghosting"?
The only other time I encountered the term "ghost" in online games was
in connection to lag.
| |
| CustomPC 2004-12-17, 5:47 pm |
|
"pfw" <pfw@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:b8r5s05rsdvtoqtdub454flbh2osg1k3hh@4ax.com...
quote:
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 04:31:42 GMT, "Mitch_A" <naman-nospam@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> I have never played AA. What's "ghosting"?
>
> The only other time I encountered the term "ghost" in online games was
> in connection to lag.
Ghosting is usually defined as being dead in a game, waiting for the round
to end but at the same time being in a voice program like roger wilco,
teamspeak etc. and telling someone who is alive what is going on in the
game. Some games allow you to follow a teammates movement either in 1st
person mode or 3rd person mode. There are clans (and individuals) that
actually join the enemy team (opposite of the people they are in voice with)
and then die quickly so they can follow the enemy around for the buds and
tell their buds the location.
AND it happens alot in AA despite what the clans say.
How do I know.
Because I have been in clans in AA, and all those clans have affiliate
clans. In fact I have seen certain clans post on the AA forums about how
they never ghost and this is a lie, as I was either a member of that clan or
an affiliate.
| |
| OldDog 2004-12-17, 5:47 pm |
|
"CustomPC" <spc@home.com> wrote in message
news:faswd.35207$SL.11949@fe43.usenetserver.com...
<snip>
quote:
>
> It is interesting that you should mention clans and maturity in the same
> sentence. It has been my experience that clans are the worst offenders
when
quote:
> it comes to behaving rather like kids, they usually have the 'gang'
> mentality. When one of their members is dissed, the usually get a gang
> together to 'hunt down' the offender and make his online experience
> miserable. hardly a mature attitude.
>
> I have been in several online clans for different games and not one of
them
quote:
> was a pleasant experience. They reminded me too much of high school
cliques,
quote:
> higher up members could pretty much break any rule they wanted and were
> 'forgiven' whereas 'lower' members were booted for minor infranctions.
>
> The worst I have seen was a bunch of the members playing AA:O, using
> teamspeak to ghost on public servers which was in direct violation of the
> rules in the clan. When it was brought to the attention of the clan
> leadership , I was told to lighten up, they were only having some fun.
> Though TRUE, ghosting is still cheating and is hardly the activity that a
> clan should condone.
>
>
>
I guess that I've been lucky. I haven't been in a lot of clans, but the few
that I've been in have been very good. I do recall several years ago a
problem when I was in a Delta Force online clan. Of the 8 people in our
clan, we all got along and had fun. But there was this one person who
turned into a Werewolf whenever we started a match against another clan.
If the other team even sneezed, he'd be howling like a mad dog on a full
moon winter nite.
Some folks just take these games way too seriously. 
| |
| OldDog 2004-12-17, 5:47 pm |
|
"James Calivar" <amheiserbush@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:pjuwd.2046$yK.757@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
<snip>
quote:
>
> In essence, I think we're at a crossroads. Or hell, mabe the end of the
> road - I don't know. But one thing is for certain - the developers have
got
quote:
> to start integrating training misions onto their sim or this whole genre
> will suffer. I look at other PC game titles in other genres and marvel at
> the professionalism and completeness. Then I wonder - how come nobody can
> do that for flight sims?
>
> Sorry to have ranted on so long - getting close to the end of another
pint!
quote:
> ;-)
>
> James
>
>
Get me another pint too.
I was thinking the other day about "training" in pc games. Take a look at
some of the First Person Shooters. Games like Medal of Honor and Call of
Duty have a decent training mission. Ok, there's not much to learn in them
except how to lean, crawl, and fire in prone position; but still the
developers took the extra step to put in a "Boot Camp" for players to learn.
Also, look at the RTS type games. Heck, I rarely need to read their manuals
cause they usually have individual training missions that teach me every
aspect of their game: economics, building, armies, exploring, ... After
finishing the training missions, I usually have a pretty good grasp of the
game.
Getting back to flight sims, I have yet to master "bombing" in IL2/FB.
I've read the manual and watched the training tracks. But still no joy.
| |
| Revvin 2004-12-18, 9:46 am |
|
"HockeyTownUSA" <magma@killspam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lN6dneU0LdchtV3cRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
quote:
> That doesn't make sense. IL-2 and all its add-ons have sold remarkably
> well. I doubt that any publisher or developer would make as many add-ons
> has they have if there was no money to be made.
On the official IL-2 web-site Oleg has said the IL-2 sereis sold 1.2 million
copies, I wonder how much of a slice from the pie Ubisoft took though? I'm
sure I read somewhere on the Ubisoft forums that Oleg has said that around
60% of all people playing the series are using a pirated copy.
| |
| James Calivar 2004-12-18, 5:46 pm |
| "AM" <SCTUSER@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:N7OdnW_vpsjFElzcRVn-oQ@comcast.com...
quote:
>
> "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
> news:Fn4wd.47994$yf.25881@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
out,[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> Wiat till you play Call Of Duty online and get a moron in a jeep on
> your own team that makes a carrer of running teammantes over........
>
You know, I am just about finished with ever trying to play an FPS online
ever again - and certainly in a public server. I guess I've gotten used to
the relative maturity and team-based attitude that goes with being a member
of a dedicated squadron (in the case of flight sims), or a good clan that
plays on their own servers (in the case of FPS games). I recently tried the
"new" version of CounterStrike, which is based on the HL2 engine,and while
the graphics are far supoerior to what they used to be, the game itself is
as stale as onth-old bread. Same TKing, same kill whores, same crap as from
when I quit this game 3 years ago. It was quite depressing,actually.
| |
| James Calivar 2004-12-19, 12:47 am |
| "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
news:I6mwd.48977$2e.47041@fe2.texas.rr.com...
quote:
>
> "FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote in message
> news:1103215235.433142.196780@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> I can think of one thing that's wrong with most of the sims that we have:
> the training area.
>
> I tried to get into Janes F18, but the training missions in it weren't
> fun.
> Neither are the ones in Falcon 4.0. I tried to fly the training missions
> to
> understand CAP, SEAD, A-G missions, .... But the missions only throw you
> into a pre-defined enviornment. There's not much in them as far as how
> to
> accomplish the training mission.
>
> I have the Falcon 4.0 manual setting on the top shelf of my computer desk.
> I've picked it up a few times over the years and tried to read thru to
> understand the game. Maybe it's just me, but there were parts in it that
> seemed to be incomplete. Since I wasn't getting much out the training
> missions or manuals, I tossed both games aside. Yet I still have the
> manual
> setting ontop cause "one of these days" I will master this beast.
>
> If a company makes a realistic sim, and they want people to buy/play it,
> they're going to have to make the learning part of it fun. Cause how
> many
> folks out there are going to spend the time and effort on their own
> figuring
> out what to do?
>
> ps The only sim that I can think of that had an interesting training was
> Janes USAF. I use to purposely do wrong things in the training missions
> just to hear the Drill Instructor yell at me.
>
>
I agree with you that most (if not all) of the sims I mentioned are sorely
lacking on the training aspect. And in fact, you've hit the head right on
top of the nail [sic] in terms of what *IS* lacking in today's sims.
There's so much emphasis on the part of the dev's to make their sims as real
and accurate as possible, that when it comes time to get them out the door,
they half-XXX (or even no-XXX) the user interface, the missions, the
campaigns and (very importantly) the training missions just to make a
deadline.
One of the reasons that I am only just now getting into F4 - even though I
bought the game 5 years ago - is because of the daunting task of
assimilating that huge tome of a "user's manual" that came with the original
game. Not to mention the fact that it's now almost completely overruled by
the SP3/SP4 updates and their associated documentation. It took a friendly
and unselfish simmer on this board (Icer) to coerce me to reinstall the game
and give it a try. And to tell you the truth, even with his advice and help
it's still going to take me getting down to Kinko's and printing out and
*reading* the 189-page SP3 manual to really understand some of the details
of this game. It's not just "click and fly". Granted, there are training
missions, and I have largely not yet explored them yet, so for this I am
grateful. But still - the ones that I have tried are a bit overwhelming and
not exactly "fun".
IL2 is an even worse offender in terms of training/documentation. Like F4,
I bought the original IL2 (and then later on, IL2-FB) a long time ago. It
wasn't until I forced myself to join a dedicated IL2-FB squadron that
insisted on full-realism that I finally began to get into the game. It's
XXXXing unreal how unfriendly this game is to newbies. Even on easy
settings it's quite a simple task to kill oneself on takeoff/landing, and
God forbid you actually go online and try to dogfight. You want to kill
"fun" right out of the box? Install IL2-FB and have a friend who's never
flown a flight sim before take the controls.
When I first got into WW2 sims - maybe 3 years ago (yeah, roll your eyes,
oldtimers) - I was playing FighterAce 3, and it was a wonderful community.
There were rooms for all levels of difficulty, and there was a dedicated
group of pilots who ran newbie "how-to" rooms every couple of nights in
order to foster the up and coming ranks of the pilots that would make the
new generation. Sure, it cost $9.95 a month to play, but it was worth it to
me - because I felt that even though I knew I was next to useless as a
pilot, other pilots were happy to have me along with them, and were eager to
parlay their knowledge on to me.
Nowadays, you've got releases like Pacific Fighters - which to be honest -
is going to be a big disappointment to any newbies, especially in standalone
mode. No training missions + lame campaings + vast expanses of boring water
= uninstall in most people's book!
In essence, I think we're at a crossroads. Or hell, mabe the end of the
road - I don't know. But one thing is for certain - the developers have got
to start integrating training misions onto their sim or this whole genre
will suffer. I look at other PC game titles in other genres and marvel at
the professionalism and completeness. Then I wonder - how come nobody can
do that for flight sims?
Sorry to have ranted on so long - getting close to the end of another pint!
;-)
James
| |
| James Calivar 2004-12-19, 12:47 am |
| "ROB" <robrog@poczta.fm> wrote in message
news:cps79l$anh$1@opal.futuro.pl...
quote:
> Guys, did you try Americas Army?
> I play it recently and must say the public servers aren't full of
> morons, tkillers etc.
> The TEAM-based actions can be achieved with ease even with a random,
> just met players.
>
> And it's for free
>
> regards
> ROB
>
>
Yeah, I Used to play AA a bit. It was just fine, but I've kind of gotten
away from FPS games for now since I've been devoting so much time to
learning IL2-FB/PF and Falcon 4. With a full time job, a wife and two young
kids, I don't have much time for a lot of other diversions!
| |
| OldDog 2004-12-19, 12:47 am |
|
"AM" <SCTUSER@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:N7OdnW_vpsjFElzcRVn-oQ@comcast.com...
quote:
>
> "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
> news:Fn4wd.47994$yf.25881@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
out,[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> Wiat till you play Call Of Duty online and get a moron in a jeep on
> your own team that makes a carrer of running teammantes over........
>
>
I've seen teammates in Joint Ops drive and fly into trees, buildings, the
ground and just about anything that doesn't move. The sad thing is that
Joint Ops has a pretty good set of single player training missions that
explain most everything about vehicles/helos.
And yes, I've played CoD online with vehicles. For some reason, I didn't
care for CoD online.
| |
| James Calivar 2004-12-19, 6:46 am |
| "Revvin" <revvin@home.com> wrote in message
news:bt-dnfjqXuOADl3cRVnyjA@giganews.com...
quote:
>
> "HockeyTownUSA" <magma@killspam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:lN6dneU0LdchtV3cRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
>
> On the official IL-2 web-site Oleg has said the IL-2 sereis sold 1.2
million
quote:
> copies, I wonder how much of a slice from the pie Ubisoft took though? I'm
> sure I read somewhere on the Ubisoft forums that Oleg has said that around
> 60% of all people playing the series are using a pirated copy.
>
>
I don't believe that 60% pirated figure for a second - at least not among
western nations. Maybe in Russia.
| |
| OldDog 2004-12-20, 12:46 am |
|
"Anthony" <nospawforme@hellno.com> wrote in message
news:eBRvd.38$Jb7.0@okepread01...
quote:
> So anyhting good coming out soon? I miss the tons we used to have like
F-15
quote:
> by janes M1 tank platoon 1 and 2, and others. Wish we could have our dream
> game graphics as good as doom 3 and half life 2 but a flgith sim with
> COMPLETE avonics. I want a manual as thick as my falcon 4.0 book. Maybe
make
quote:
> it a carrier sim or something hmmmmm
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
Just a thought, but the only way to fly planes/helos or drive a tank in the
future might be in games like BattleField 1942 XII, or Joint Ops VIII.
Driving the vehicles or flying the planes/helos in these type games are
pretty easy.
Still nothing like flying a Black Hawk helo loaded with friendlies into the
war zone with ground troops blasting at your helo with M16s, 50cal guns, and
the SAMs carried by ground pounders. And when a SAM takes your helo out,
there's nothing like seeing all the text msgs from your teammates screaming
about how you suck as a Black Hawk pilot.
| |
| James Calivar 2004-12-20, 9:46 am |
| "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
news:M%Gwd.53434$2e.35060@fe2.texas.rr.com...
quote:
>
> "James Calivar" <amheiserbush@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:pjuwd.2046$yK.757@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> <snip>
> got
at[vbcol=seagreen]
can[vbcol=seagreen]
> pint!
>
> Get me another pint too.
>
> I was thinking the other day about "training" in pc games. Take a look
at
quote:
> some of the First Person Shooters. Games like Medal of Honor and Call of
> Duty have a decent training mission. Ok, there's not much to learn in
them
quote:
> except how to lean, crawl, and fire in prone position; but still the
> developers took the extra step to put in a "Boot Camp" for players to
learn.
quote:
>
> Also, look at the RTS type games. Heck, I rarely need to read their
manuals
quote:
> cause they usually have individual training missions that teach me every
> aspect of their game: economics, building, armies, exploring, ... After
> finishing the training missions, I usually have a pretty good grasp of
the
quote:
> game.
>
> Getting back to flight sims, I have yet to master "bombing" in IL2/FB.
> I've read the manual and watched the training tracks. But still no joy.
>
Bombing is one of the trickier aspects of the game - which I appreciate,
because it was the same thing in real life. Hitting a target accurately
from 10,000 feet is not an easy thing to do! I have the good fortune of
being asigned to the "JaBo" Staffel within my (German) squadron, so I've
spent a fair amount of time learning the ins and outs of operating the
Bf110, He111 and Ju87 planes. It's funny, because now that I'm used to all
the intricacies of the bombers, going back to the fighter planes is a piece
of cake since there aren't nearly so many controls to have to think about.
What "bombing" are you having problems with? Dive bombing? High altitude
bombing runs? Low-altitude attack?
| |
| OldDog 2004-12-20, 5:48 pm |
|
"CustomPC" <spc@home.com> wrote in message
news:faswd.35207$SL.11949@fe43.usenetserver.com...
<snip>
quote:
>
> It is interesting that you should mention clans and maturity in the same
> sentence. It has been my experience that clans are the worst offenders
when
quote:
> it comes to behaving rather like kids, they usually have the 'gang'
> mentality. When one of their members is dissed, the usually get a gang
> together to 'hunt down' the offender and make his online experience
> miserable. hardly a mature attitude.
>
> I have been in several online clans for different games and not one of
them
quote:
> was a pleasant experience. They reminded me too much of high school
cliques,
quote:
> higher up members could pretty much break any rule they wanted and were
> 'forgiven' whereas 'lower' members were booted for minor infranctions.
>
> The worst I have seen was a bunch of the members playing AA:O, using
> teamspeak to ghost on public servers which was in direct violation of the
> rules in the clan. When it was brought to the attention of the clan
> leadership , I was told to lighten up, they were only having some fun.
> Though TRUE, ghosting is still cheating and is hardly the activity that a
> clan should condone.
>
>
>
I guess that I've been lucky. I haven't been in a lot of clans, but the few
that I've been in have been very good. I do recall several years ago a
problem when I was in a Delta Force online clan. Of the 8 people in our
clan, we all got along and had fun. But there was this one person who
turned into a Werewolf whenever we started a match against another clan.
If the other team even sneezed, he'd be howling like a mad dog on a full
moon winter nite.
Some folks just take these games way too seriously.
| |
| OldDog 2004-12-21, 6:47 am |
|
"James Calivar" <amheiserbush@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:cq6kam$c32$1@home.itg.ti.com...
<snip> >
quote:
>
> Bombing is one of the trickier aspects of the game - which I appreciate,
> because it was the same thing in real life. Hitting a target accurately
> from 10,000 feet is not an easy thing to do! I have the good fortune of
> being asigned to the "JaBo" Staffel within my (German) squadron, so I've
> spent a fair amount of time learning the ins and outs of operating the
> Bf110, He111 and Ju87 planes. It's funny, because now that I'm used to
all
quote:
> the intricacies of the bombers, going back to the fighter planes is a
piece
quote:
> of cake since there aren't nearly so many controls to have to think about.
>
> What "bombing" are you having problems with? Dive bombing? High altitude
> bombing runs? Low-altitude attack?
>
>
Yes.
I'm pretty good at strafing with guns or rockets. But pretty much suck at
anything else; such as dive, hi and low. I'm interested in learning "dive
bombing" with Stuka or P47 and "level bombing" with either one.
OldDog
| |
| James Calivar 2004-12-21, 6:47 am |
| "ROB" <robrog@poczta.fm> wrote in message
news:cps79l$anh$1@opal.futuro.pl...
quote:
> Guys, did you try Americas Army?
> I play it recently and must say the public servers aren't full of
> morons, tkillers etc.
> The TEAM-based actions can be achieved with ease even with a random,
> just met players.
>
> And it's for free
>
> regards
> ROB
>
>
Yeah, I Used to play AA a bit. It was just fine, but I've kind of gotten
away from FPS games for now since I've been devoting so much time to
learning IL2-FB/PF and Falcon 4. With a full time job, a wife and two young
kids, I don't have much time for a lot of other diversions!
| |
| Not-My-Real-Name 2004-12-21, 6:47 am |
| Nats wrote:
quote:
>Theres
> somethign really wrong with the sim market when we have to resort
> to Redbaron to be able to enjoy a flight sim. The state of computer
> gaming has marched on over recent years by leaps and bounds but
> flight sims have all but died. The only ones left are rehashed
> games from years ago and a couple of graphically outstanding
> efforts with no fun factor.
Since you enjoy RB, have you tried Wings of War with the realism mods?
Check out SimHQs forum on that. It's quite fun to fly.
| |
|
| "James Calivar" <amheiserbush@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:cpsjkk$dl$1@home.itg.ti.com...
quote:
> But I agree with you - right now we sit pretty good, with most
> theaters/eras
> covered. WWI - RB3D w/ FCJ superpatch. WW2 - IL2-FB/AEP/PF. Korean
> era -
> I *guess* you could say StrikeFighters fills that void. I recentlt also
> "discovered" MIG Alley, which as I understand it is truly a Korean-era
> sim --- too bad it doesn't want to run on my XP system (can't see menu
> fonts). For Vietnam era and later there is Falcon 4.0, LOMAC, and the
> ones
> that FatKat mentioned.
>
> What's not to love about our current situation?
You cant be serious surely? Redbaron? MigAlley? Falcon 4? These are all
really old games! For me the interest in these games dried up years ago.
True I very occassionally try F4 again when the odd patch comes out but Im
pretty much bored with the limits of that game now. And as for LOMAC/Strike
Fighters - where on earth is the gameplay - the immersion, the interesting
campaigns? Theyre both scripted junk. IL2 is reasonable but just far too
linear and difficult for me - its just not fun. Maybe Im just getting too
old for games - that may be true but years ago we seemed to have loads of
games with gameplay that were actually FUN to play. Theres somethign really
wrong with the sim market when we have to resort to Redbaron to be able to
enjoy a flight sim. The state of computer gaming has marched on over recent
years by leaps and bounds but flight sims have all but died. The only ones
left are rehashed games from years ago and a couple of graphically
outstanding efforts with no fun factor.
--
Regards
Nats
"It's life, Jim, but not as we know it."
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.813 / Virus Database: 553 - Release Date: 13/12/2004
| |
| OldDog 2004-12-21, 6:47 am |
|
"FatKat" <robynari@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1103215235.433142.196780@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
quote:
> What exactly is wrong with the sims we have today? Maybe the reason we
> don't have tons of them is because the few that we have are good enough
> (at least) to do what the old ones could, combined. Also, if you're
> into carrier sims, what's wrong w/Jane's F-18 & Flanker 2.5?
>
I can think of one thing that's wrong with most of the sims that we have:
the training area.
I tried to get into Janes F18, but the training missions in it weren't fun.
Neither are the ones in Falcon 4.0. I tried to fly the training missions to
understand CAP, SEAD, A-G missions, .... But the missions only throw you
into a pre-defined enviornment. There's not much in them as far as how to
accomplish the training mission.
I have the Falcon 4.0 manual setting on the top shelf of my computer desk.
I've picked it up a few times over the years and tried to read thru to
understand the game. Maybe it's just me, but there were parts in it that
seemed to be incomplete. Since I wasn't getting much out the training
missions or manuals, I tossed both games aside. Yet I still have the manual
setting ontop cause "one of these days" I will master this beast.
If a company makes a realistic sim, and they want people to buy/play it,
they're going to have to make the learning part of it fun. Cause how many
folks out there are going to spend the time and effort on their own figuring
out what to do?
ps The only sim that I can think of that had an interesting training was
Janes USAF. I use to purposely do wrong things in the training missions
just to hear the Drill Instructor yell at me.
| |
| Fcuk U 2004-12-21, 6:47 am |
| Anthony wrote:
quote:
> So anyhting good coming out soon? I miss the tons we used to have like F-15
> by janes M1 tank platoon 1 and 2, and others. Wish we could have our dream
> game graphics as good as doom 3 and half life 2 but a flgith sim with
> COMPLETE avonics. I want a manual as thick as my falcon 4.0 book. Maybe make
> it a carrier sim or something hmmmmm
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
its not lookning good
--
"For instance I can't think of the last time I actually paid for a copy
of Windows." -- James Calivar
| |
| OldDog 2004-12-21, 6:47 am |
|
"JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Kgowd.24$cB.596@eagle.america.net...
<snip>
quote:
>
>
>
> I think you mean BF 1942, as vehicle use isn't possible in COD <g>
>
>
<snip>
The new addon for CoD supports vehicles.
| |
| James Calivar 2004-12-21, 6:47 am |
| "CustomPC" <spc@home.com> wrote in message
news:faswd.35207$SL.11949@fe43.usenetserver.com...
quote:
>
> "James Calivar" <amheiserbush@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:cps64t$l6h$1@home.itg.ti.com...
>
> It is interesting that you should mention clans and maturity in the same
> sentence. It has been my experience that clans are the worst offenders
> when it comes to behaving rather like kids, they usually have the 'gang'
> mentality. When one of their members is dissed, the usually get a gang
> together to 'hunt down' the offender and make his online experience
> miserable. hardly a mature attitude.
>
> I have been in several online clans for different games and not one of
> them was a pleasant experience. They reminded me too much of high school
> cliques, higher up members could pretty much break any rule they wanted
> and were 'forgiven' whereas 'lower' members were booted for minor
> infranctions.
>
> The worst I have seen was a bunch of the members playing AA:O, using
> teamspeak to ghost on public servers which was in direct violation of the
> rules in the clan. When it was brought to the attention of the clan
> leadership , I was told to lighten up, they were only having some fun.
> Though TRUE, ghosting is still cheating and is hardly the activity that a
> clan should condone.
>
Well, truth be known the only "clan" I was ever a member of was the Tactical
Gamer guys (www.tacticalgamer.com). I was one of the original members when
all it was was a bunch of guys wanting to re-establish CounterStrike games
in terms of team objectives instead of personal glory. Great idea, but it
really took amove to Ghost Recon to get this idea off the ground. We pretty
much played only co-op versus tough AI and it was a great experience. I
haven't been much involved with them since having kids and getting into IL2
but they're still around. Good bunch of players, and mostly honest.
| |
|
| On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 04:31:42 GMT, "Mitch_A" <naman-nospam@pacbell.net>
wrote:
quote:
>Ghosting was the main reason I quit playing AA.
I have never played AA. What's "ghosting"?
The only other time I encountered the term "ghost" in online games was
in connection to lag.
| |
| CustomPC 2004-12-21, 6:47 am |
|
"pfw" <pfw@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:b8r5s05rsdvtoqtdub454flbh2osg1k3hh@4ax.com...
quote:
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 04:31:42 GMT, "Mitch_A" <naman-nospam@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> I have never played AA. What's "ghosting"?
>
> The only other time I encountered the term "ghost" in online games was
> in connection to lag.
Ghosting is usually defined as being dead in a game, waiting for the round
to end but at the same time being in a voice program like roger wilco,
teamspeak etc. and telling someone who is alive what is going on in the
game. Some games allow you to follow a teammates movement either in 1st
person mode or 3rd person mode. There are clans (and individuals) that
actually join the enemy team (opposite of the people they are in voice with)
and then die quickly so they can follow the enemy around for the buds and
tell their buds the location.
AND it happens alot in AA despite what the clans say.
How do I know.
Because I have been in clans in AA, and all those clans have affiliate
clans. In fact I have seen certain clans post on the AA forums about how
they never ghost and this is a lie, as I was either a member of that clan or
an affiliate.
| |
| James Calivar 2004-12-21, 9:46 am |
|
"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
news:yZPxd.37866$jf5.14470@fe1.texas.rr.com...
quote:
>
> "James Calivar" <amheiserbush@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:cq6kam$c32$1@home.itg.ti.com...
> <snip> >
joy.[vbcol=seagreen]
> all
> piece
about.[vbcol=seagreen]
altitude[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Yes.
>
> I'm pretty good at strafing with guns or rockets. But pretty much suck
at
quote:
> anything else; such as dive, hi and low. I'm interested in learning
"dive
quote:
> bombing" with Stuka or P47 and "level bombing" with either one.
>
> OldDog
>
>
There is a good intro to dive bombing in the Stuka at
http://www.naysayers.com/9jg52/stuka/sturz.htm. This is the technique that
I use more or less, and it's effective. For high altitude bombing in the
He111, check out
http://www.wingwalkers.org/sensei/H...ions_Guide.pdf. You might
also be interested in the bombing training videos put out by Dart at
http://www.darts-page.com/movies2.htm. These are fun to watch (especially
with his down-home accent). There are videos on ground attack, shipping
attack, etc.
James
| |
| OldDog 2004-12-21, 5:47 pm |
| Thanks for the links James. I'll have to stop flying Spitfire & P51 CAP
missions and spend some time pounding the dirt.
"James Calivar" <amheiserbush@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:cq9cf9$5th$1@home.itg.ti.com...
quote:
>
> "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
> news:yZPxd.37866$jf5.14470@fe1.texas.rr.com...
IL2/FB.[vbcol=seagreen]
> joy.
appreciate,[vbcol=seagreen]
accurately[vbcol=seagreen]
of[vbcol=seagreen]
I've[vbcol=seagreen]
to[vbcol=seagreen]
> about.
> altitude
> at
> "dive
>
> There is a good intro to dive bombing in the Stuka at
> http://www.naysayers.com/9jg52/stuka/sturz.htm. This is the technique
that
quote:
> I use more or less, and it's effective. For high altitude bombing in the
> He111, check out
> http://www.wingwalkers.org/sensei/H...ions_Guide.pdf. You might
> also be interested in the bombing training videos put out by Dart at
> http://www.darts-page.com/movies2.htm. These are fun to watch (especially
> with his down-home accent). There are videos on ground attack, shipping
> attack, etc.
>
> James
>
>
| |
|
|
"James Calivar" <amheiserbush@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:vG9wd.1085$yK.30@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
quote:
>
> That was my take, too. His comment in the forums about pirating was
> ridiculous.
One thing I have noticed about business owners.
Usually when they accuse their customers/employees of stealing,
they are usually doing it themselves..........................
--
Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
| |
|
|
"OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
news:Fn4wd.47994$yf.25881@fe2.texas.rr.com...
quote:
>
> Still nothing like flying a Black Hawk helo loaded with friendlies into
> the
> war zone with ground troops blasting at your helo with M16s, 50cal guns,
> and
> the SAMs carried by ground pounders. And when a SAM takes your helo out,
> there's nothing like seeing all the text msgs from your teammates
> screaming
> about how you suck as a Black Hawk pilot.
>
Wiat till you play Call Of Duty online and get a moron in a jeep on
your own team that makes a carrer of running teammantes over........
--
Only A Gentleman Can Insult Me And A True Gentleman Never Will
| |
| James Calivar 2004-12-22, 6:47 am |
| "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cpso6a$qc8$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
quote:
> "James Calivar" <amheiserbush@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:cpsjkk$dl$1@home.itg.ti.com...
>
> You cant be serious surely? Redbaron? MigAlley? Falcon 4? These are all
> really old games! For me the interest in these games dried up years ago.
> True I very occassionally try F4 again when the odd patch comes out but Im
> pretty much bored with the limits of that game now. And as for
> LOMAC/Strike Fighters - where on earth is the gameplay - the immersion,
> the interesting campaigns? Theyre both scripted junk. IL2 is reasonable
> but just far too linear and difficult for me - its just not fun. Maybe Im
> just getting too old for games - that may be true but years ago we seemed
> to have loads of games with gameplay that were actually FUN to play.
> Theres somethign really wrong with the sim market when we have to resort
> to Redbaron to be able to enjoy a flight sim. The state of computer gaming
> has marched on over recent years by leaps and bounds but flight sims have
> all but died. The only ones left are rehashed games from years ago and a
> couple of graphically outstanding efforts with no fun factor.
>
> --
> Regards
> Nats
>
No offense, but maybe the problem lies with you and where you're at right
now. Sounds to me like you've flown every flight sim under the sun to
death - unlike me who is only into the habint by a couple of years. It's
very possible that you're getting ready to move on to something else to
occupy your time instead of flying a computer game. As a friend at work is
always telling me, "It's time for a non-virtual hobby!" In his case (and in
mine - I'm hooked) it's radio-controlled airplanes. Have you ever checked
this hobby out? It's really freaking awesome - no joke!!
Regards,
James
| |
|
| Except for its graphic glitches and the lack of a no-cd file that WORKED,
USAF was the most fun and the best training mission sim I have ever played.
I know Bob's Your Uncle( or something like that) tried to do some add ons but
I really wish someone would resurrect this game.
| |
| Not-My-Real-Name 2004-12-22, 5:46 pm |
| Viper wrote:
quote:
> Except for its graphic glitches and the lack of a no-cd file that
> WORKED, USAF was the most fun and the best training mission sim I
> have ever played. I know Bob's Your Uncle( or something like that)
> tried to do some add ons but I really wish someone would resurrect
> this game.
Have you checked the SIMHQ forum?
There's two CD's of enhancements, recently released for USAF!
| |
| OldDog 2004-12-24, 9:46 am |
|
"James Calivar" <amheiserbush@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:cq6kam$c32$1@home.itg.ti.com...
<snip> >
quote:
>
> Bombing is one of the trickier aspects of the game - which I appreciate,
> because it was the same thing in real life. Hitting a target accurately
> from 10,000 feet is not an easy thing to do! I have the good fortune of
> being asigned to the "JaBo" Staffel within my (German) squadron, so I've
> spent a fair amount of time learning the ins and outs of operating the
> Bf110, He111 and Ju87 planes. It's funny, because now that I'm used to
all
quote:
> the intricacies of the bombers, going back to the fighter planes is a
piece
quote:
> of cake since there aren't nearly so many controls to have to think about.
>
> What "bombing" are you having problems with? Dive bombing? High altitude
> bombing runs? Low-altitude attack?
>
>
Yes.
I'm pretty good at strafing with guns or rockets. But pretty much suck at
anything else; such as dive, hi and low. I'm interested in learning "dive
bombing" with Stuka or P47 and "level bombing" with either one.
OldDog
| |
|
| FatKat wrote:
quote:
> EF2000 may be older than Jane's ATF (they
> came bundled together along with a Jane's Apache title) but there's no
> doubting which is the more sophisticated experience. EF2000 was
> followed up twice - the last installment being a widely reviled title
> that sacrificed the older games' pretensions of uncompromising realism.
?? followed up twice? what game are you referng to here?
I have EF2000 DOS and EF2000 version-2 for windows. Both seem the same
in the realism department.
I should re-install them, such a great game!
quote:
> EF2000 survived the test of time, but failed the test of my GeForceIII
> card,
--------oh, i have a new computer with the 5700 card. I may have trouble
here.
there are a couple of good voodoo emulators now however - this may be
worth a try.
quote:
> and is now sadly unplayable.
have you tried a voodoo emulator?
quote:
> Time may wait for no man, but a
> good sim is forever (provided you have an old 3DFx-equipped, E*Bay
> purchased system). Is it against the laws of (virtual) nature to cling
> to games which are older, even if they are better? It may bode poorly
> for today's publishers that we have to resort to old sims for fun, but
> it speaks well of today's players that they can do so.
>
indeed!
quote:
> but sims have outgrown the 4 corners of today's
> monitors.
agreed!
quote:
> Only VR technology will make the next leap a significant
> one.
I dissagree. VR is cheezy.
The TV manufacturers need to get off their rears and offer RGB inputs on
ALL their HDTV models.
I see front projection DLP/LCD TVs (10' or larger) as the next logical
setup for a nice fightsim/theater environment
.........still for $1000 or more a pop, one would think RGB inputs would
be offered!!
--
The courts have unanimously (and erroneously) refused to let defense
attorneys argue for nullification, typically by insisting that the jury
has no power to consider what the law should be, and that juries have no
lawful task but to decide whether the defendant broke the law. Yet, in a
fit of sheer inconsistency, the same federal courts of appeals are also
unanimous that it is permissible for prosecutors to urge juries to act
as the "conscience of the community" and use their verdict to "send a
message" about whether society should be willing to tolerate the
defendant's alleged conduct. James J. Duane, "What Message Are We
Sending to Criminal Jurors When We Ask Them to 'Send a Message' With
Their Verdict?," 22 Am. J. Crim. Law 565, 576-79 (1995).
The Sixth Amendment creates a right for the defendant to insist on a
jury to act as a community conscience and protect him from government
oppression, and yet only the State is allowed, when it chooses, to ask
the jury to consider matters of morality and conscience. Id. at 590-602.
Thus have we witnessed a complete perversion of the constitutional
priorities and structure.
One might fairly summarize the case law this way: "You may hope that the
jury will refuse to apply a harsh, unfair, or inequitable law, but you
may not urge them to do so." Steven Lubet, Modern Trial Advocacy 436 (1993)
If the jury feels the law is unjust, we recognize the undisputed power
of the jury to acquit, even if its verdict is contrary to the law as
given by a judge, and contrary to the evidence...If the jury feels that
the law under which the defendant is accused is unjust, or that exigent
circumstances justified the actions of the accused, or for any reason
which appeals to their logic or passion, the jury has the power to
acquit, and the courts must abide by that decision.
4th Circuit Court of Appeals, United States v. Moylan, 1969
[The jury has an] unreviewable and irreversible power...to acquit in
disregard of the instructions on the law given by the trial judge...The
pages of history shine on instances of the jury's exercise of its
prerogative to disregard uncontradicted evidence and instructions of the
judge; for example, acquittals under the fugitive slave law.
D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, Unites States v. Dougherty, 1972
It is not only [the juror's] right, but his duty...to find the verdict
according to his own best understanding, judgment, and conscience,
though in direct opposition to the directionof the court.
John Adams, 1771
......it is usual for the jurors to decide the fact, and to refer the law
arising on it to the decision of the judges. But this division of the
subject lies with their discretion only. And if the question relate to
any point of public liberty, or if it be one of those in which the
judges may be suspected of bias, the jury undertake to decide both law
and fact.
Thomas Jefferson, "Notes on Virginia," 1782
It is presumed, that juries are the best judges of facts; it is, on the
other hand,presumed that courts are the best judges of law. But still
both objects are within your power of decision.....you have a right to
take it upon yourselves to judge of both,and to determine the law as
well as the fact in controversy.
Chief Justice John Jay, Georgia v. Brailsford, 1794
Jurors should acquit, even against the judge's instruction...if
exercising their judgement with discretion and honesty they have a clear
conviction that the charge of the court is wrong.
Alexander Hamilton, 1804
The jury has the power to bring a verdict in the teeth of both the law
and the facts.
Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Horning v. District of Columbia, 1920
| |
| FatKat 2004-12-26, 5:46 pm |
|
gaffo wrote:
quote:
> FatKat wrote:
>
no[vbcol=seagreen]
title[vbcol=seagreen]
realism.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> ?? followed up twice? what game are you referng to here?
>
> I have EF2000 DOS and EF2000 version-2 for windows. Both seem the
same
quote:
> in the realism department.
I was referring to EF2000 v.2 & Eurofighter Typhoon, both being
follow-ups (in varying degrees) to the first EF2000 game. While the
differences between the 1st two games seems minimal (support for Win95
in the 2nd game, even though DiD support made it possible to run the
1st on my Win95 computer; graphics accel on the 2nd game, but not for
my OpenGl system), the 3rd game was reputed to have jettisoned the
unpretentious gameplay and no-nonsense realism of the first 2 games.
Have you played "Typhoon"? I was curious about how accurate the reviews
were.
quote:
> I should re-install them, such a great game!
>
GeForceIII[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> --------oh, i have a new computer with the 5700 card. I may have
trouble
quote:
> here.
>
> there are a couple of good voodoo emulators now however - this may be
quote:
> worth a try.
>
Thanks for the heads-up. If it can be called an unfortunate situation,
my plae is full in the flight-sim category - I have Falcon 4, Jane's
F-18 & F-15, Flanker 2.5, the first Longbow, Appache-Havoc & Jane's WW2
Fighters, and some other sims. Where was this embarassment of riches
when "Their Finest Hour" was basically my sim of choice?
quote:
>
>
>
> have you tried a voodoo emulator?
>
>
>
cling[vbcol=seagreen]
poorly[vbcol=seagreen]
but[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> indeed!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> agreed!
>
>
>
> I dissagree. VR is cheezy.
>
I guess I was being general when referring to VR. What I mean is that
we need some technology that provides for either an encompassing or
near encompassing perspective for the player-pilot, or a graphics
system that provides something near that by translating head movements
by the player into perspective-chanege commands by the game. We need a
system that the player can use that will take his head movements and
change the pilot POV on the game accordingly. Track IR, from what I
hear, already does this - but the effect may be diluted by the fact
that you're still looking at a fixed screen. Having the graphics
pumped through special goggles (which exclude all but the display)
seems a more immersive idea (though it'll probably make for a higher
incidence of red-eyes; you'll also get more people getting nauseous by
their machines).
Does this approximate VR for you? Either way, what is it about VR that
you find "Cheezy"?
quote:
> The TV manufacturers need to get off their rears and offer RGB inputs
on
quote:
> ALL their HDTV models.
What are RGB inputs?
quote:
>
> I see front projection DLP/LCD TVs (10' or larger) as the next
logical
quote:
> setup for a nice fightsim/theater environment
>
> ........still for $1000 or more a pop, one would think RGB inputs
would
quote:
> be offered!!
>
| |
| gaffo 2004-12-27, 12:46 am |
| FatKat wrote:
quote:
> gaffo wrote:
>
>
> no
>
>
> title
>
>
> realism.
>
>
> same
>
>
>
> I was referring to EF2000 v.2 & Eurofighter Typhoon, both being
> follow-ups (in varying degrees) to the first EF2000 game. While the
> differences between the 1st two games seems minimal (support for Win95
> in the 2nd game, even though DiD support made it possible to run the
> 1st on my Win95 computer; graphics accel on the 2nd game, but not for
> my OpenGl system), the 3rd game was reputed to have jettisoned the
> unpretentious gameplay and no-nonsense realism of the first 2 games.
> Have you played "Typhoon"? I was curious about how accurate the reviews
> were.
no I have'nt - hate to admit it, but I've never heard of the "typhoon" game.
I have the old f-22 and I hear TAW is a good game though.
DID was a great company. YEARS again of their time.
quote:
>
> GeForceIII
>
>
> trouble
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the heads-up.
the thread on RedBaron at the simhq website forum is informative in the
emulator department.
"dgvoodoo" (I think) seems to be the best one. (fastest and most
compatable).
.......I've not tried it myself...........I'm stuck with a newish PC
without an OS (home restoration is taking my time now for the next week
weeks).
eventually I shall have DOS /win-98 /winXP and Linux with a bootmanager
to choose. I have to research memory managers/drivers
(mouse/USB/etc.....) under DOS first.
must have DOS to play "oldschool" (like stuff at "Retrograde Station").
quote:
> If it can be called an unfortunate situation,
> my plae is full in the flight-sim category - I have Falcon 4, Jane's
> F-18 & F-15, Flanker 2.5, the first Longbow, Appache-Havoc & Jane's WW2
> Fighters, and some other sims. Where was this embarassment of riches
> when "Their Finest Hour" was basically my sim of choice?
>
>
> cling
>
>
> poorly
>
>
> but
>
>
> I guess I was being general when referring to VR. What I mean is that
> we need some technology that provides for either an encompassing or
> near encompassing perspective for the player-pilot, or a graphics
> system that provides something near that by translating head movements
> by the player into perspective-chanege commands by the game. We need a
> system that the player can use that will take his head movements and
> change the pilot POV on the game accordingly. Track IR, from what I
> hear, already does this - but the effect may be diluted by the fact
> that you're still looking at a fixed screen. Having the graphics
> pumped through special goggles (which exclude all but the display)
> seems a more immersive idea (though it'll probably make for a higher
> incidence of red-eyes; you'll also get more people getting nauseous by
> their machines).
sounds kewl, but such a system also sound very expensive and any apps
would ahve to be re-written to use that technology.
I cheaper system would be a highrez projection TV - not a immersive, but
all the classic would play fine on them - and a theater size screen
would be pretty immersive.
.............I'm poor, so It will be a few yrs before i get such a TV.
DLP/LCD still have growing pains, so by then they will be both cheaper
and better looking ;-).
tiger Direct offer a 10' projection DPL for 800 bucks (but it uses the
first generation DPL chip - max rez 600x800) Newest DLP chip (second
gen) offers 768x1024......I'll wait for third gen and hopefully
1200x1600. (i.e. HDTV)
quote:
> Does this approximate VR for you? Either way, what is it about VR that
> you find "Cheezy"?
Well - i think of those horrid LCD googles of ten yrs ago - with the
flicker and the harky-jerky vulture-creater flying around.
that was yrs ago - maybe the technology is alot better now?
I was a fan of VRML/Viscape and Superscape's VVVW virtual hub
too.......yet that is now all history ;-/.
Blaxxon is gone too.................Cortona remains, but finding VRML
websites is now damned near impossible.
peace.
--
The courts have unanimously (and erroneously) refused to let defense
attorneys argue for nullification, typically by insisting that the jury
has no power to consider what the law should be, and that juries have no
lawful task but to decide whether the defendant broke the law. Yet, in a
fit of sheer inconsistency, the same federal courts of appeals are also
unanimous that it is permissible for prosecutors to urge juries to act
as the "conscience of the community" and use their verdict to "send a
message" about whether society should be willing to tolerate the
defendant's alleged conduct. James J. Duane, "What Message Are We
Sending to Criminal Jurors When We Ask Them to 'Send a Message' With
Their Verdict?," 22 Am. J. Crim. Law 565, 576-79 (1995).
The Sixth Amendment creates a right for the defendant to insist on a
jury to act as a community conscience and protect him from government
oppression, and yet only the State is allowed, when it chooses, to ask
the jury to consider matters of morality and conscience. Id. at 590-602.
Thus have we witnessed a complete perversion of the constitutional
priorities and structure.
One might fairly summarize the case law this way: "You may hope that the
jury will refuse to apply a harsh, unfair, or inequitable law, but you
may not urge them to do so." Steven Lubet, Modern Trial Advocacy 436 (1993)
If the jury feels the law is unjust, we recognize the undisputed power
of the jury to acquit, even if its verdict is contrary to the law as
given by a judge, and contrary to the evidence...If the jury feels that
the law under which the defendant is accused is unjust, or that exigent
circumstances justified the actions of the accused, or for any reason
which appeals to their logic or passion, the jury has the power to
acquit, and the courts must abide by that decision.
4th Circuit Court of Appeals, United States v. Moylan, 1969
[The jury has an] unreviewable and irreversible power...to acquit in
disregard of the instructions on the law given by the trial judge...The
pages of history shine on instances of the jury's exercise of its
prerogative to disregard uncontradicted evidence and instructions of the
judge; for example, acquittals under the fugitive slave law.
D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, Unites States v. Dougherty, 1972
It is not only [the juror's] right, but his duty...to find the verdict
according to his own best understanding, judgment, and conscience,
though in direct opposition to the directionof the court.
John Adams, 1771
......it is usual for the jurors to decide the fact, and to refer the law
arising on it to the decision of the judges. But this division of the
subject lies with their discretion only. And if the question relate to
any point of public liberty, or if it be one of those in which the
judges may be suspected of bias, the jury undertake to decide both law
and fact.
Thomas Jefferson, "Notes on Virginia," 1782
It is presumed, that juries are the best judges of facts; it is, on the
other hand,presumed that courts are the best judges of law. But still
both objects are within your power of decision.....you have a right to
take it upon yourselves to judge of both,and to determine the law as
well as the fact in controversy.
Chief Justice John Jay, Georgia v. Brailsford, 1794
Jurors should acquit, even against the judge's instruction...if
exercising their judgement with discretion and honesty they have a clear
conviction that the charge of the court is wrong.
Alexander Hamilton, 1804
The jury has the power to bring a verdict in the teeth of both the law
and the facts.
Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Horning v. District of Columbia, 1920
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