quote:

---

> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:KYCdnROz8ZUNK-jcRVn-2A@giganews.com...
> <snip>
>
> Too many sims/mods.... and so little time.
>
> <snip>
>
>
> Don, hope you get better soon. Or is that a bad thing?
>
> It's been a long time since I've played LB2 so I won't try and
> compare it to EECH. EECH was the last helo sim that I did, and I
> thought they did an incredible job on making a realistic dynamic
> battlefield. The graphics weren't great, but the flight, weapons,
> avonics, and on going battlefied were. In fact, I found my CD just
> last week and put it to the side in hopes of reinstalling it later
> on. IF only they would release EECH II.
>
> I was able to get a copy of of the eariler Apache Havoc sim and use
> it with EECH. Installing it allowed me to fly the Apache helo which
> was fun. Also, you get to fly the Apache Campaign under the EECH
> engine. So if you can get your hands on a cheap copy, it'll
> probably be worth it.
>
> BTW What mods are you using with EECH? I know there's some out
> there, but I never tried any of them.
>
> You might want to look into Gunship! Make sure you get the patch
> for it since it fixed a lot of problems that people complained about
> upon it's release.
>
> http://www.simwarrior.com/gunship/index.html
> http://gunshiplink.homestead.com/Tips.html

quote:

---

> what do you thing of EECH compared to Longbow2?

quote:

---

> I do not have Apache Havok, would it be worth finding
> a copy to run in tandom with EECH?

quote:

---

> In article <KYCdnROz8ZUNK-jcRVn-2A@giganews.com>,
> d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net (Don Burnette) wrote:
>
>
> Much though I love the depth of LB2' systems (and the
> unbeatable tutorials) EECH is a sim I enjoy more because of
> the combination of less demanding avionics and more engaging
> campaigns. Neither are perfect, but it hits a gameplay sweet
> spot for me, and when I sit in that amazing Hokum cockpit I
> feel more immersed than in just about any other flight sim.
>
>
> The extra campaign maps are nice, but the un-updated cockpits
> of the older helicopters is hard to accept once you've got
> used to those in EECH. Given the similarity of weapons
> systems I've never spent much time in the older aircraft
> since EECH came out.
>
> Andrew McP
>
> PS If you do upgrade your Cougar gimbals, don't tell us how
> great it is even though it cost half a house (near enough
> anyway). I still love the feel and look of that hardware even
> if I found it impossible to fly with. So I don't need the
> temptation... especially as I did a review of my pension fund
> this week. It didn't take long, I don't have one. Still, 24
> years to go. That's plenty of time... to get used to the idea
> of working till I drop ;-)

quote:

---

> I swear, time truly does get faster as we get older!

quote:

---

> (*%#
>
> Here I am at home recovering from unexpected surgery, have been since a week
> ago Thursday evening. I am definitely rekindling my love for flight sims,
> (...)
> How the hell am I supposed to go back to work next week? Auggh, it is
> difficult being home all the time trying to do what I want do with these
> great sims!!!

quote:

---

> ... especially as I did a review of my pension fund
> this week. It didn't take long, I don't have one. Still, 24
> years to go. That's plenty of time... to get used to the idea
> of working till I drop ;-)

quote:

---

> In article <8-OdnUX-opEKj-vcRVn-gA@giganews.com>,
> d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net (Don Burnette) wrote:
>
>
> Depressingly true. They tell you it's so when you're young,
> but nothing quite prepares you for the harsh reality!
>
> I used to dream about getting a book published or selling
> some artwork in the future. Now I reckon I'll be lucky to get
> my desk tidy and the bathroom tiled before I shuffle off this
> mortal coil.
>
> Mind you, it'd probably help if I stopped wasting so much
> time here, flying sims, or making movies about flying sims.
> Can't really complain :-)
>
> Still, at least our online lives are going down in Google
> history, so we won't be totally forgotten. In the distant
> future an internet historian will delve deep into the
> bottomless bit-pit and... delete csipgf-s by accident.
>
> "Oh well, plenty more where that came from" he'll mutter
> before moving on to alt.spanking.birch-twigs, which is
> probably what he was looking for all along.
>
> Andrew McP

quote:

---

> Don Burnette wrote:
>
> Don,
>
> I had a similar experience not so long ago, except that in my case I
> was away from work for three months (had to go through a mid-life
> upgrade). Before you call me a lucky bastard (OK, maybe I am), I'd
> like to say that I just performed the same routine, i.e. back to serious
> IL2 flight-simming, trying to improve a depressing GPLrank and -here
> comes the biggest mistake- starting to look into RC helicopters (a boyhood
> dream).
> Inevitably I felt in love with these little buggers and when time came
> to return to work, I could hover decently an electric micro-helicopter
> in my living room. Since then, I bought a slightly bigger model but I
> barely have the time to fly during the week-ends. Aaaargh.
>
> So, let me assure you that it is probably less frustrating to return
> to work early ;)
>
> Now I ask: what cruel god condemned us to this miserable life ? When
> you are young and have plenty of time, you do not have the money for
> all these nice toys. Then, before you know it, you grow old, get the money
> but between work, wife and kids you just do not have the time anymore.
> Not so long ago, I was laughing at the thought of Papadoc sneaking
> graphics cards into the house trying to avoid being caught by Mrs.
> Legrand. Not anymore.
>
> Hope you get well soon.
> Mr. Sylvestre
>
> PS. Free advice to younger lurkers: wife and kids do have their good
> points though (disclaimer: my older daughter is still a few years away
> of borrowing my car).

quote:

---

> Andrew MacPherson wrote:
>
>
> Damn, does it mean that even at the bargain price of 6,700£
>
> http://www.simw.com/index.cfm?fusea...etails&pid=1299
>
> will be a no-no for you ?
>
> Mr. Sylvestre
> (27 years to go)
>

quote:

---

> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:xMednWnqMsiraejcRVn-pQ@giganews.com...
> snip>
>
> That was one feature lacking in EECH. The graphics, especially the
> terrain, were a little blocky. I'll have to checkout some of these
> graphic mods. Cause they look good.
>
> BTW are the SAM sites eating you up? It took me awhile to
> realize that just because the pre-mission map doesn't show a SAM site
> in a sector doesn't mean that one isn't there. I went from flying
> fast and low, to flying hi and slow.

quote:

---

> Bee wrote:
snip>[vbcol=seagreen]
> As for the mods for eech, there really are many. This is the best site I
> have seen for them. http://home.planet.nl/~jette073/gotcha/
> First I grabbed the new terrain and cocpit textures, along with the

quote:

---

> version of the gwut program.
> Neat program for EECH, well worth the download just for the additional
> capabilities it provides. I especially like the wideview option, the tsd
> render mod, and the high resolution mfd.
>
> Next, I I grabbed the texture import/export utility. This utility makes
> importing some really nice high res graphics very simple.
>
> Next, from the same site, I grabbed the Ground Support System utility. I
> really like it for the ease of importing new sound files, there are some
> good replacement rotor and weapon launch user made sound files.
>
> Finally, the EECH Development Zone is a good site as well, with other

quote:

---

> to good sites within it.
>
> The mods are enough to keep one busy for a while .
>
> Don Burnette
>
>

quote:

---

> does it mean that even at the bargain price of 6,700£

quote:

---

>
> "Mr. Sylvestre" <MrSylvestre@worldcompany.com> wrote in message
> news:cl64ne$bdn$1@ikaria.belnet.be...
>
>
> Wow that looks cool. Add a fan to the front to sim airflow. And put a
> garden hose overhead and have it sprinkle water to sim rain... and you're

quote:

---

> business.

quote:

---

> How the hell am I supposed to go back to work next week? Auggh, it is
> difficult being home all the time trying to do what I want do with these
> great sims!!!

quote:

---

> So chopper lovers, what do you thing of EECH compared to Longbow2?
> I do not have Apache Havok, would it be worth finding a copy to run in
> tandom with EECH?
>

quote:

---

> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:LJmdnQnjwNl1huXcRVn-3A@giganews.com...
>
> I think its one of the INS/HOME/DEL/PGUP keys. You'll see the TXT
> msg in your radar change from something like ALL to
> HI/MED/LOW(something like that). Go to the link below, and read Ch2
> about "2.11 Radar Information Filters Part I - Threat Priority".
>
> http://www.razorworks.com/enemyengaged/index.html
>
> It was about 2 years ago when I first picked up EECH. I played it
> on and off for about a week. I put in about 6 hrs total and just
> gave up cause I was constantly getting shot down by SAMs. It wasn't
> until about a year ago that I reinstalled it and decided by GOD I was
> going to complete at least 1 mission.
>
> Finally some light bulbs started going off. The biggest one was
> figuring out how to defeat the SAMs. Another tip is to use your
> teammates to attack the SAMs. They can be a little slow on engaging
> sometimes. But their Hellfires can help a lot in reducing the SAM
> numbers.
>
> BTW If you get a chance, "coop" play is pretty cool too. If you
> got some friends, get them online and they can help you defeat them
> #$%#$ SAMs. My brother and I had some good missions against them.

quote:

---

> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:4Madne-
> snip
>
>
>
> Here's some tactics that I used that you might want to try:
>
> 1. When you pick a mission, study the map; especially the SAM
> threats. Just remember that not all SAMs are shown. Seems like in
> most missions, especially the eariler ones, you'll find a lot of SAMs
> that weren't on the map and they'll pop up all around you while
> flying towards the target. Also, you want to determine which
> direction is probably your best bet to turn to when SAMs do start to
> light you up. As example, if the target is NW of your base, then
> you will most likely need to turn and dive to SE heading.
>
> 2. Fly high. The higher, the better. Your radar will have an
> easier time spotting threats. I don't remember the exact height that
> I use to fly at; but I think it was at least a min of 500-1000 ft
> above ground level.
>
> 3. Also, go slow. Under 80kph. If you're going too fast, you
> can wind up inside SAM range before you know it. Going high and
> slow allows you time to react when your radar finally detects SAM
> sites.
>
> 3. Watch out for roads and their intersetions; especially where
> the roads have a lot of forest around them. Seems the trees can
> mask the vehicles until its too late. Many of time I accidently
> flew over an intersetion going low only to suddenly discover
> tanks/vehicles below. Their AA can quickly chew your helo to shred.
> This is another reason I prefer to fly high.
>
> 4. The radar has different "threat levels" that you can select.
> Recommend that you fly with SAM threat turned on 80% of the time.
> Especially while flying towards the target. Try flying for a few
> mins on SAM threat, then cycle thru the others for a few secs just to
> see if anything else is out there. Then go back to SAM threat.
>
> 5. When you finally detect SAMs, get within range and fire off one
> hellfire per SAM. If you're fast, you can probably get off 2-3
> hellfires before they light you up and start shooting at you. When
> they do, turn, dive, and head in the direction that was mentioned in
> #1 above. And drop chaff/flares as needed. note: When I first
> started playing this sim, many a time I found myself "deeper" inside
> enemy territory getting more SAMs launched at me simply because I
> never thought about which direction to evade to. Once you're outside
> their range, you can climb, and turn back to the threats and
> re-engage them. And hopefully there's a few less SAMs to worry
> about.
>
> 6. You can loadout with all Hellfires. Take out as many SAM/AAA
> sites as you can. Then find any FARP and land and refuel so that
> you can continue with the main mission. Taking out the enemy SAM
> sites should be #1 priority early on in the campaign. Once you're
> sure that you've cleared the area, you can then move in and finish
> off the main objective for the given mission.
>
>
> hope this helps

quote:

---

> this way. note: when you think about it, this is a flaw with the sim.
> cause what fool jet pilot is going to close on a helo? What I also

quote:

---

>
> Yes, the Sam sites are nailing my XXX right now, can't seem to have enough
> hellfires to take care of them.
>
> The particular campaign I have started is in the desert, and ain't much to
> hide behind, makes it tough.
>

quote:

---

> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:4Madne-
> snip
>
>
>
> Here's some tactics that I used that you might want to try:
>
> 1. When you pick a mission, study the map; especially the SAM
> threats. Just remember that not all SAMs are shown. Seems like in
> most missions, especially the eariler ones, you'll find a lot of SAMs
> that weren't on the map and they'll pop up all around you while
> flying towards the target. Also, you want to determine which
> direction is probably your best bet to turn to when SAMs do start to
> light you up. As example, if the target is NW of your base, then
> you will most likely need to turn and dive to SE heading.
>
> 2. Fly high. The higher, the better. Your radar will have an
> easier time spotting threats. I don't remember the exact height that
> I use to fly at; but I think it was at least a min of 500-1000 ft
> above ground level.
>
> 3. Also, go slow. Under 80kph. If you're going too fast, you
> can wind up inside SAM range before you know it. Going high and
> slow allows you time to react when your radar finally detects SAM
> sites.
>
> 3. Watch out for roads and their intersetions; especially where
> the roads have a lot of forest around them. Seems the trees can
> mask the vehicles until its too late. Many of time I accidently
> flew over an intersetion going low only to suddenly discover
> tanks/vehicles below. Their AA can quickly chew your helo to shred.
> This is another reason I prefer to fly high.
>
> 4. The radar has different "threat levels" that you can select.
> Recommend that you fly with SAM threat turned on 80% of the time.
> Especially while flying towards the target. Try flying for a few
> mins on SAM threat, then cycle thru the others for a few secs just to
> see if anything else is out there. Then go back to SAM threat.
>
> 5. When you finally detect SAMs, get within range and fire off one
> hellfire per SAM. If you're fast, you can probably get off 2-3
> hellfires before they light you up and start shooting at you. When
> they do, turn, dive, and head in the direction that was mentioned in
> #1 above. And drop chaff/flares as needed. note: When I first
> started playing this sim, many a time I found myself "deeper" inside
> enemy territory getting more SAMs launched at me simply because I
> never thought about which direction to evade to. Once you're outside
> their range, you can climb, and turn back to the threats and
> re-engage them. And hopefully there's a few less SAMs to worry
> about.
>
> 6. You can loadout with all Hellfires. Take out as many SAM/AAA
> sites as you can. Then find any FARP and land and refuel so that
> you can continue with the main mission. Taking out the enemy SAM
> sites should be #1 priority early on in the campaign. Once you're
> sure that you've cleared the area, you can then move in and finish
> off the main objective for the given mission.
>
>
> hope this helps

quote:

---

> Bee wrote:
> Great info, thank you very much.
>
> I have to get figured out how to switch my radar to only aa, that sounds
> like it will be a big help.
>
> --
> Don Burnette
>
>
>

quote:

---

> snip> >
>
> This really helped alot, along with the pages of the manual on radar that
> Andrew sent me.
>
> I just successfully flew two missions in the campaign, got 14 kills in the
> first, and 11 in the second, including a couple of enemy helos.
> Even made it back successfully to my original take off farp point. Before
> these pointers and learning more about the radar's uses, I was getting my
> butt nailed by enemy sams.
> Now if I could just get my wingmen to be more aggressive. Actually, I have
> found that by just setting them to weapons free, they are more aggressive
> rather than instructing them to attack my target. If I do the latter, they
> like to hover around while picking their butts!
>
> Very exciting indeed. I am starting to really like the campaign mode in
> EECH.
>
> Thanks guys,
>
>
> --
> Don Burnette
>
>
>

quote:

---

>
> "Bee" <Bee@no.spam.com> wrote in message
> news:_rced.38088$rY1.26048@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> <snip>
sim.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I've never played EECH (found Apache / Havoc at my local Walmart, but
> haven't seen it's brother in years), but I've noticed in Falcon 4.0 and
> other sims it's kinda impossible when flying a jet to avoid closing on a
> helicopter ... Little buggers don't run away fast enough. You point your
> nose at them, sneeze and all of a sudden you're past them!
> <grin>
>
>

quote:

---

> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:LIWdnUmN5epV2eTcRVn-
>
> You only got 14 kills?!?! Are you blind? heehee. Just kidding.
> Sounds like you are getting the hang of things. Don't you wish that
> you could cary 48 Hellfires? And don't you wish you could set
> them Wingmen down and ask them to stop picking their butts?

quote:

---

>
> EECH has one of the best campaigns in any sim. Although I can't
> really compare it to Falcon 4.0 since it was another sim that gave me
> trouble in the beginning. And I just couldn't force myself to wade
> thru the manual and spend time figuring it out.
>

quote:

---

> But getting back to EECH. It's fun to watch the campaign unfold as
> each side sends out its forces on missions. And there's so many
> different kinds going on too. Ground forces moving around. Helos
> taking off. Planes going out on strikes.

quote:

---

>
> Oh here's a few more tips:
>
> 1. Enemy planes can be a XXXXX. You can try and take them out with
> Sidewinders, but sometimes the enemy will spoof them with
> Chaff/flares. And the problem is that you probably only have a few
> Sidewinders to use. Try going as high as you can. Forward speed
> isn't the issue. Usually the enemy plane will zoom towards you.
> Arm the mini-gun and wait till the plane is within range and then
> unload on it. I've taken out more planes this way. note: when
> you think about it, this is a flaw with the sim. cause what fool jet
> pilot is going to close on a helo? What I also attempt to do is
> to stay out of their flight paths. If you watch the map, you can
> usually determine what flight paths they are patroling.
>
> 2. You don't have to return to base for mission complete. While
> it's fun to fly home to base... it can be a long trip. Jumping to
> the main mission map and selecting another target is faster.
>
> 3. Watch your display that provides a map view of area/targets.
> What you are looking for is new targets that appear. Example: you
> are flying NW for a SAM site. About 1/4 way there, you notice a
> convoy of tanks about 10km to the NE. Should you engage them now
> and hope to have enough Hellfires to take out the base, or continue
> to SAM sites and hit the convoy on the way back? You probably want
> to ensure the main obj gets completed. If not, you'll lose points
> towards the campaign and the red/blue line could shift against you.
> That's not to say that I didn't unload on SAM sites blocking my way
> to the target. So if you are flying home after a successful mission,
> you need to determine if you got the time and resources to veer off a
> little and attack other targets of oppuritity. No need to return to
> base with extra Hellfires.
>
> WARNING: It's been over a year since I've flown EECH. Use tips
> with caution!

quote:

---

> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:ho6dnesc28l8H-bcRVn-sQ@giganews.com...
> snip
>
>
> I use to work. But given the choice between work or EECH/IL2FB, I'll
> take the sims any day. You do have the Ace Expansion pack for
> IL2FB? It's pretty good. With the expansion pack & the patches for
> it, you can now the fly the P51, Spitfire, P38, Y80 (US jet
> fighter)... and several other planes. Still no flyable B17 though.
>
>
> http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/il2ace_pc.htm

quote:

---

> "Don Burnette" <d.burnette@clothes.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:D7SdneZHnNnwKOfcRVn-jg@giganews.com...
>
> Curse you Don!
>
> Just chatting about EECH got me interested in play it again. So
> yesterday, after quickly reviewing the keyboard cmds, I fire up my
> first mission. I take off and fly around in demo mode just to get
> the hang of things. After 15mins of figuring out how to turn on the
> radar, switch to Hellfires, turn on jammers... I enter the first
> Skirmish mission.
>
> I nail a few SAMs but then one of them nails me. "No problem. My
> bad." Pick another mission and BOOM! I get nailed again. WTF!
> Okay, no more Mr. Nice guy. Needless to say I had to focus a little
> and spend some time in the seat before I was nailing SAMs more than
> them nailing me. Even with all my tips.
>
> And yes, I was making all kinds of mistakes. I did the ZOOM down to
> avoid SAMs and next thing I know I've sheared the rotors off cause I
> went over 200mph! CRASH!
>
> I've accidently hit the DECREASE RPM instead in INCREASE RPM. CRASH!
>
> I've overflown ground vehicles! OH Wow! Look at the pretty blue
> tracers! CRASH!
>
> I've tried to get just one more SAM when I should have turned home
> after nailing 6 SAMs, 4 Tanks, 2 Helos, and a partridge in a pear
> tree. CRASH!
>
> I wished that I had kept the powerpoint slide of tips/checklist that
> I made over a year ago for my brothers. I got them hooked on this
> sim. I gave them checklist on how to do all kinds of things in this
> sim. Preflight checklist. Takeoff checklist. Attacking with SAMs
> checklist. ... I need my old checklists, cause I had forgotten so
> many things. Things like: After taking off, gear up to reduce Radar
> Signature.
>
> But I'm getting the hang of things, and it's really fun to replay
> this sim again.