quote:

---

> So what's the point
> of being good? You won't be rewarded for it in the afterlife.

quote:

---

>
>Atheists are people who don't believe in God. They say there's no
>afterlive, and you cease to exist when you die. With that in mind, I
>wonder at the rage atheists express over Alejandro Avila and his murder
>of Samantha Runnion, or their rage at any other killer. What if someone
>wanted to rape and murder a seven year old girl? Sure, you might be
>able to say it's morally wrong. But what does that matter? We are all
>going to face the horror of oblivion one day. One day when our bodies
>die, that will be it... we will cease to exist. Hitler, Stalin, Pol
>Pot, Mao, Genghis Khan, Madeline Albrecht, Janet Reno, and Hillary
>Clinton all faced or will face the exact same fate that happened to
>Jesus christ, Mother Theresa and Ghandi. Atheists tell us that no
>matter how morally good you are, you will face the exact same end
>result as the worst child molestor that ever lived. So what's the point
>of being good? You won't be rewarded for it in the afterlife. And you
>won't be punished in the afterlife for your evil deeds. Why can't
>someone go out and rape little girls and bash their skulls in
>afterward? Why shouldn't they do that? Ultimately, the exact same thing
>would happen to them if they didn't. Living a good life as a law
>abiding citizen that cares about others will earn you the same result
>as someone who enjoys inflicting pain on others.

quote:

---

> I've been reading some posts about Samantha Runnion over at
> alt.atheism, which makes for some very entertaining reading:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt....d992dc8a2323446
>
> Atheists are people who don't believe in God. They say there's no
> afterlive, and you cease to exist when you die. With that in mind, I
> wonder at the rage atheists express over Alejandro Avila and his murder
> of Samantha Runnion, or their rage at any other killer. What if someone
> wanted to rape and murder a seven year old girl? Sure, you might be
> able to say it's morally wrong. But what does that matter? We are all
> going to face the horror of oblivion one day. One day when our bodies
> die, that will be it... we will cease to exist. Hitler, Stalin, Pol
> Pot, Mao, Genghis Khan, Madeline Albrecht, Janet Reno, and Hillary
> Clinton all faced or will face the exact same fate that happened to
> Jesus christ, Mother Theresa and Ghandi. Atheists tell us that no
> matter how morally good you are, you will face the exact same end
> result as the worst child molestor that ever lived. So what's the point
> of being good? You won't be rewarded for it in the afterlife. And you
> won't be punished in the afterlife for your evil deeds. Why can't
> someone go out and rape little girls and bash their skulls in
> afterward? Why shouldn't they do that? Ultimately, the exact same thing
> would happen to them if they didn't. Living a good life as a law
> abiding citizen that cares about others will earn you the same result
> as someone who enjoys inflicting pain on others.
>
> I think the main lesson atheism teaches is that good and evil doesn't
> matter, evil will never be punished, and the righteous will never be
> rewarded. There's no reason to do good and help your fellow human
> beings, and there's no reason why child molestors and murderers
> shouldn't do what they do.

quote:

---

> I think the main lesson atheism teaches...

quote:

---

> There's the courts and prisons for those that do evil things, you dumbass.

quote:

---

> ugottarubmetherightway@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> If the only reason you do good is to be rewarded for it, then you are a
> truly sad person, regardless of whether or not there's an afterlife.
>
> By the way, it's possible to be an Atheist (in the sense of not
> believing in a Judeo-Christian God) and still believe in an afterlife.
>

quote:

---

> I've been reading some posts about Samantha Runnion over at
> alt.atheism, which makes for some very entertaining reading:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt....d/b45ae747c6681
> 787/2d992dc8a2323446#2d992dc8a2323446
>
> Atheists are people who don't believe in God. They say there's no
> afterlive, and you cease to exist when you die. With that in mind, I
> wonder at the rage atheists express over Alejandro Avila and his murder
> of Samantha Runnion, or their rage at any other killer. What if someone
> wanted to rape and murder a seven year old girl? Sure, you might be
> able to say it's morally wrong. But what does that matter? We are all
> going to face the horror of oblivion one day. One day when our bodies
> die, that will be it... we will cease to exist. Hitler, Stalin, Pol
> Pot, Mao, Genghis Khan, Madeline Albrecht, Janet Reno, and Hillary
> Clinton all faced or will face the exact same fate that happened to
> Jesus christ, Mother Theresa and Ghandi. Atheists tell us that no
> matter how morally good you are, you will face the exact same end
> result as the worst child molestor that ever lived. So what's the point
> of being good? You won't be rewarded for it in the afterlife. And you
> won't be punished in the afterlife for your evil deeds. Why can't
> someone go out and rape little girls and bash their skulls in
> afterward? Why shouldn't they do that? Ultimately, the exact same thing
> would happen to them if they didn't. Living a good life as a law
> abiding citizen that cares about others will earn you the same result
> as someone who enjoys inflicting pain on others.
>
> I think the main lesson atheism teaches is that good and evil doesn't
> matter, evil will never be punished, and the righteous will never be
> rewarded. There's no reason to do good and help your fellow human
> beings, and there's no reason why child molestors and murderers
> shouldn't do what they do.
>

quote:

---

> In many ways, it's similar to a child becoming a responsible adult. The
> child won't understand doing something just because it's the right thing
> to do. However, the child WILL understand that if he doesn't clean up his
> room, he'll be punished. Later, the child will keep his room clean not
> because of any punishment or reward, but because he understands it's
> something he's supposed to do. That's a sign he's becoming an adult.

quote:

---

> ugottarubmetherightway@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> If the only reason you do good is to be rewarded for it, then you are a
> truly sad person, regardless of whether or not there's an afterlife.

quote:

---

>
> By the way, it's possible to be an Atheist (in the sense of not
> believing in a Judeo-Christian God) and still believe in an afterlife.

quote:

---

> In <1129756013.591015.159710@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> ugottarubmetherightway@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Atheism "teaches" nothing at all. Atheism is a state of being without
> belief in any gods. You might as well say the color blue "teaches"
> something...

quote:

---

>
> --
> Mark K. Bilbo
> --------------------------------------------------
> "We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
> after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
> been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
> Many who could have been were not. That's to the
> government's shame."
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2D511CBB

quote:

---

> "Atheists tell us that no matter how morally good you are, you will
> face the exact same end result as the worst child molestor that ever
> lived. So what's the point of being good?"
>
> Simple... If this world is as good as it gets, there's no better place
> that we're going to, then we owe it to ourselves and our children to
> make our planet as "good" and livable a place as possible. The true
> test of morality is what we do when nobody's watching. A truly moral
> person doesn't need an invisible father figure waiting to punish them
> when they die.
>
> The best description of athiesm I've read is this:
>
> "I believe we're all atheists, I just believe in one less God than you
> do. When you come to understand why you don't believe in any other God
> then you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."
>
> - Jordan

quote:

---

> "Atheists tell us that no matter how morally good you are, you will
> face the exact same end result as the worst child molestor that ever
> lived. So what's the point of being good?"
>
> Simple... If this world is as good as it gets, there's no better place
> that we're going to, then we owe it to ourselves and our children to
> make our planet as "good" and livable a place as possible. The true
> test of morality is what we do when nobody's watching. A truly moral
> person doesn't need an invisible father figure waiting to punish them
> when they die.
>
> The best description of athiesm I've read is this:
>
> "I believe we're all atheists, I just believe in one less God than you
> do. When you come to understand why you don't believe in any other God
> then you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."
>
> - Jordan

quote:

---

> "Atheists tell us that no matter how morally good you are, you will
> face the exact same end result as the worst child molestor that ever
> lived. So what's the point of being good?"
>
> Simple... If this world is as good as it gets, there's no better place
> that we're going to, then we owe it to ourselves and our children to
> make our planet as "good" and livable a place as possible. The true
> test of morality is what we do when nobody's watching. A truly moral
> person doesn't need an invisible father figure waiting to punish them
> when they die.
>
> The best description of athiesm I've read is this:
>
> "I believe we're all atheists, I just believe in one less God than you
> do. When you come to understand why you don't believe in any other God
> then you'll understand why I don't believe in yours."
>
> - Jordan

quote:

---

>
>Jordan wrote:
>
>That's exactly my point. If we're going to cease to exist in oblivion,
>then caring, good, faith, love, believing in tommorrow, and "we owe it
>to our children" doesn't matter. Atheism says we're not going to be
>conscious again, we're never going to think or feel again. What happens
>to the world won't matter if we'll never feel emotions about it, or
>even exist to see it.

quote:

---

> You don't have to believe in an afterlife to think that you don't have a
> right to kill someone. That's a false argument. People can agree that
> murder is wrong on other basis than the belief in an afterlife. And, as you
> know, the Christian religion says that if a person asks forgiveness for
> their sins before they die, they will be forgiven and get to go to heaven
> anyway. How do you know that Hitler didn't do exactly that?
>
> Actually, this business of being forgiven for sins AND that the
> Christian/Jewish god requires that the person believe in him/her/it, as a
> basis for that trip to heaven, is what really puts me off religion. I'd be
> much more likely to buy into a religion that actually requires a person to
> live a good life to get their ticket to heaven.
>
> Craig

quote:

---

>Atheists tell us that no
>matter how morally good you are, you will face the exact same end
>result as the worst child molestor that ever lived. So what's the point
>of being good? You won't be rewarded for it in the afterlife. And you
>won't be punished in the afterlife for your evil deeds. Why can't
>someone go out and rape little girls and bash their skulls in
>afterward? Why shouldn't they do that?

quote:

---

>
>will(from the reality based community) wrote:
>
>But atheism crushes spirit and when our spirits have been crushed, how
>can we be motivated? Why would I act out of love in a universe where
>love doesn't matter? The horrors of impending non existance have sucked
>all the faith out of me, now I can't have any faith in the concept of
>right or wrong, or love. Everything is meaningless, so why have
>positive motivation?

quote:

---

> I think the main lesson atheism teaches is that good and evil doesn't
> matter, evil will never be punished, and the righteous will never be
> rewarded. There's no reason to do good and help your fellow human
> beings, and there's no reason why child molestors and murderers
> shouldn't do what they do.

quote:

---

> Why would I bother doing good, though? I mean, it will earn me the same
> end result, anyway.

quote:

---

> Jordan wrote:
>
>
>
> That's exactly my point. If we're going to cease to exist in oblivion,
> then caring, good, faith, love, believing in tommorrow, and "we owe it
> to our children" doesn't matter. Atheism says we're not going to be
> conscious again, we're never going to think or feel again. What happens
> to the world won't matter if we'll never feel emotions about it, or
> even exist to see it.
>

quote:

---

>
> will(from the reality based community) wrote:
>
> But atheism crushes spirit

quote:

---

> and when our spirits have been crushed, how
> can we be motivated?

quote:

---

> Why would I act out of love in a universe where
> love doesn't matter?

quote:

---

> The horrors of impending non existance have
> sucked all the faith out of me, now I can't have any faith in the
> concept of right or wrong, or love. Everything is meaningless, so why
> have positive motivation?
>
>

quote:

---

> will(from the reality based community) wrote:
>
>
>
> But atheism crushes spirit and when our spirits have been crushed, how
> can we be motivated? Why would I act out of love in a universe where
> love doesn't matter?

quote:

---

> The horrors of impending non existance have sucked
> all the faith out of me, now I can't have any faith in the concept of
> right or wrong, or love. Everything is meaningless, so why have
> positive motivation?

quote:

---

> "Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
>
>
> Why don't dogs shit in their own homes?
>

quote:

---

>Atheism has a way of crushing one's spirit and encouraging jadeness and
>nihlism. What does having the right to do something or the lack thereof
>matter? What does murder being wrong matter? You say murder is wrong,
>but why does right or wrong matter? It's all meaningless. If atheism is
>reality, then why should I have faith in the concepts of right or
>wrong, or be inspired to avoid doing wrong acts.

quote:

---

> Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>
> The example of atheism teaches something. We can learn from observing
> atheism.

quote:

---

> I've been reading some posts about Samantha Runnion over at
> alt.atheism, which makes for some very entertaining reading:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt....d992dc8a2323446
>
> Atheists are people who don't believe in God. They say there's no
> afterlive, and you cease to exist when you die. With that in mind, I
> wonder at the rage atheists express over Alejandro Avila and his murder
> of Samantha Runnion, or their rage at any other killer.

quote:

---

> I'd argue that under athiesm love has more meaning. Love is right here,
> right now. It's not some cosmic payoff when you die. Right and wrong
> exist right now, independent of what happens when you die.
>
> It's pretty clear by now that you have no idea what you're talking
> about, you might want to stop now.

quote:

---

>
> They do until you put a foot in their XXX a couple of times.

quote:

---

>Jamal Bernhard wrote:
>
>Why would I bother doing good, though? I mean, it will earn me the same
>end result, anyway.

quote:

---

>
> <ugottarubmetherightway@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1129756013.591015.159710@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt....d992dc8a2323446[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Yeah isn't it weird that all atheists aren't raging
> murders/rapists/theives etc.
>
> Isn't it also weird that a number of those who are christians
> are.
>
> It's a head scratcher for sure

quote:

---

>"Jordan" <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
>
>The hypocrisy....

quote:

---

> That's exactly my point. If we're going to cease to exist in oblivion,
> then caring, good, faith, love, believing in tommorrow, and "we owe it
> to our children" doesn't matter.

quote:

---

> Atheism says we're not going to be
> conscious again, we're never going to think or feel again. What
> happens to the world won't matter if we'll never feel emotions about
> it, or even exist to see it.

quote:

---

> Atheism has a way of crushing one's spirit and encouraging jadeness
> and nihlism.

quote:

---

>Jamal Bernhard wrote:
>
>Why would I bother doing good, though? I mean, it will earn me the same
>end result, anyway. Of course you're going to say "because it's just
>the right thing to do." But there's something deeper than just the
>incentives. People who do good without expecting rewards, do it because
>they believe in the concept of goodness, and they put faith in the
>concept of goodness.

quote:

---

>Atheism tells us that no matter how good we are
>we're going to be destroyed forever, and that kind of thing has a way
>of jading you.

quote:

---

>If atheism is true, then why would I care about
>anything, or love anything or put faith in anything? Atheism is such a
>spirit-crushing concept. Nothing matters.

quote:

---

>As the Poison song goes,
>"give me something to belive in." Because if I'm going to face the
>horror of ceasing to exist, I can't be motivated to care, love,
>believe, or have faith.

quote:

---

>
>atheism is the belief that there is no god, and that when we die we
>cease to excist.

quote:

---

>
> What hypocrisy would that be? I don't see what you're translating into
> hypocrisy. I'm sincerely interested in learning what you see as such.
> Care to
> enlighten me? :-?

quote:

---

> He thinks that someone who has been a professed athiest for 26 years
> doesn't know what he's talking about. :^)

quote:

---

>
> If you have to ask that, you must be a sick, sociopathic asswipe.

quote:

---

> Which I gathered from your first post.
> You're so XXXXing stupid, it's hard to know where to start.

quote:

---

> A good place would be for you to recognize that there are people and
> have been people in societies in this world that live without the
> carrot on the stick you are talking about.
> Think about that one for a while, dipshit.

quote:

---

>
>Jordan wrote:
>
>That's exactly my point. If we're going to cease to exist in oblivion,
>then caring, good, faith, love, believing in tommorrow, and "we owe it
>to our children" doesn't matter.

quote:

---

>Atheism says we're not going to be
>conscious again, we're never going to think or feel again. What happens
>to the world won't matter if we'll never feel emotions about it, or
>even exist to see it.

quote:

---

>
>will(from the reality based community) wrote:
>
>But atheism crushes spirit and when our spirits have been crushed, how
>can we be motivated?

quote:

---

>Why would I act out of love in a universe where
>love doesn't matter?

quote:

---

>The horrors of impending non existance have sucked
>all the faith out of me, now I can't have any faith in the concept of
>right or wrong, or love.

quote:

---

>Everything is meaningless, so why have
>positive motivation?

quote:

---

> "Jordan" <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
>
> lol. As if professing to be something gives you any special insight.

quote:

---

> a shmuck.

quote:

---

>
>

quote:

---

> What
>
> PLONK to yet another Usenet XXXXXXX.

quote:

---

> Witch hunts, heresy hunts crusades. inquisitions, pogroms,
> torture, slavery, religous wars and forced conversions.
> Bigotry anti-Semitism, hate and brutality. We had the religous
> wars of the 1500's that raged for better part of 50 years
> and killed one quarter of all Europe.

quote:

---

> Nor is that old history. For teh last 30 years teh christian far
> right and GOP has supprted every mass murdering, genocidal
> bastrad it could embrace.

quote:

---

> I don't know about you, but it has been making me sick to my
> stomach for 30 long years.

quote:

---

>
> Did you catch it in a mason jar maybe?

quote:

---

> Ever heard of the fallacy of reification?
>
> Idiot.

quote:

---

> You are, of course, implying that only your fear of "God"'s punishment
> keeps *you* from doing such things, which indicates that you're
> essentially a psychopath.

quote:

---

> You don't have to believe in an afterlife to think that you don't have a
> right to kill someone. That's a false argument. People can agree that
> murder is wrong on other basis than the belief in an afterlife. And, as
> you
> know, the Christian religion says that if a person asks forgiveness for
> their sins before they die, they will be forgiven and get to go to heaven
> anyway. How do you know that Hitler didn't do exactly that?

quote:

---

> Actually, this business of being forgiven for sins

quote:

---

> AND that the Christian/Jewish god

quote:

---

> requires that the person believe in him/her/it, as a
> basis for that trip to heaven, is what really puts me off religion.

quote:

---

> I'd be
> much more likely to buy into a religion that actually requires a person to
> live a good life to get their ticket to heaven.

quote:

---

> Atheism has a way of crushing one's spirit and encouraging jadeness and
> nihlism.

quote:

---

> What does having the right to do something or the lack thereof
> matter? What does murder being wrong matter? You say murder is wrong,
> but why does right or wrong matter? It's all meaningless. If atheism is
> reality, then why should I have faith in the concepts of right or
> wrong, or be inspired to avoid doing wrong acts.

quote:

---

>The vast majority of people and societies throughout history have
>viewed killing another human being as "wrong" behavior, despite
>differences in culture, geography, ethnicity, wealth, poverty, and so
>forth.

quote:

---

> An atheist who does good, does it because they want to do good, with
> absolutely no concept of a reward or afterlife FOR IT.

quote:

---

> Who's more likely to get into your Heaven?

quote:

---

> 1: The Christian who does it because they KNOW they'll get into
> heaven for being good.

quote:

---

> 2: The atheist who does good because it's the right thing to do, no
> reward needed or expected.

quote:

---

> This question is one of many that made me seriously doubt my
> Christianity and lead to a fullfilling life as an atheist.

quote:

---

> *IF* there's an afterlife, I'll be pleasantly surprised won't I? And,
> contrary, if there isn't, those atheists and theists who believe in
> one will never know there isn't. If that carrot of an afterlife
> sustains them on their deathbeds, then I'm happy for them.

quote:

---

> You don't rape and kill people because you hurt them in doing so, and
> that is wrong. Not because you'll get punished in the afterlife.

quote:

---

>Apart from the complexity of this world, the nearly impossible odds
>involved with its creation and evolution out of nothingness, and all
>the major coincidences (for example, if our planet were slightly closer
>to the sun or slightly further away, a distance which is neglible
>compared to the size of the universe, it would not be capable of
>suporting life), the fact that we seem to have a "conscience" is
>further evidence (to me, anyway) that there is something else going on
>much bigger than ourselves.

quote:

---

>Whether you believe in a god or not, it bears investigation and serious
>study before you reach a conclusion. It is the height of human
>arrogance for a person to declare that he or she is 100% certain that
>there is no creator/God/higher power...especially since there is so
>much we still do not understand about life.

quote:

---

>
>One last thought--if there is a God who gave mankind free will (and who
>therefore values freedom of choice), wouldn't it make sense for Him to
>provide just enough evidence of His existence so that people who want
>to seek Him will find Him, and just enough uncertainty so that people
>who aren't interested in seeking Him can be comfortable with that
>decision?

quote:

---

>No one would feel coerced in either direction. If He
>provided too much evidence, we would almost have no choice but to
>believe; if He provided too little evidence, there would be no basis
>for faith.

quote:

---

> My question is why anyone IS a Christian based on these things.

quote:

---

> The vast majority of people and societies throughout history have
> viewed killing another human being as "wrong" behavior, despite
> differences in culture, geography, ethnicity, wealth, poverty, and so
> forth. This suggests that there are certain universal values (not a
> popular notion in this age of moral relativism) that are inherrent to
> human beings. We recognize injustice, we feel compassion, we know when
> we have done something wrong, and we get angry when we see that this
> world is "broken" and things aren't the way that they should be.

quote:

---

> Where did these values come from? Where does a "conscience" come from?
> It cannot be explained by evolution. After all, if survival of the
> individual and his lineage is paramount, murder would be an acceptible
> way to ensure the survival of the fittest, wouldn't it?

quote:

---

> If someone had
> more food than you, you should murder them to make sure that you live
> and your "competition" does not.

quote:

---

> If you wanted someone for a mate, but
> they were already with someone else, you could murder their spouse. Or
> you could murder the babies of another couple so that they don't
> compete with your offspring for scarce resources. Sounds gruesome,
> doesn't it? Yet this is the way that animals act, but not [most] human
> beings.

quote:

---

> Why not? Why were we given a conscience and the ability to
> discern right and wrong?

quote:

---

> Apart from the complexity of this world, the nearly impossible odds
> involved with its creation and evolution out of nothingness, and all
> the major coincidences (for example, if our planet were slightly closer
> to the sun or slightly further away, a distance which is neglible
> compared to the size of the universe, it would not be capable of
> suporting life),

quote:

---

> the fact that we seem to have a "conscience" is
> further evidence (to me, anyway) that there is something else going on
> much bigger than ourselves.

quote:

---

> Whether you believe in a god or not, it bears investigation and serious
> study before you reach a conclusion. It is the height of human
> arrogance for a person to declare that he or she is 100% certain that
> there is no creator/God/higher power...especially since there is so
> much we still do not understand about life.

quote:

---

> One last thought--if there is a God who gave mankind free will (and who
> therefore values freedom of choice), wouldn't it make sense for Him to
> provide just enough evidence of His existence so that people who want
> to seek Him will find Him, and just enough uncertainty so that people
> who aren't interested in seeking Him can be comfortable with that
> decision? No one would feel coerced in either direction. If He
> provided too much evidence, we would almost have no choice but to
> believe; if He provided too little evidence, there would be no basis
> for faith.

quote:

---

> All you have to do is look at xian history.

quote:

---

> Witch hunts, heresy hunts crusades. inquisitions, pogroms,
> torture, slavery, religous wars and forced conversions.
> Bigotry anti-Semitism, hate and brutality. We had the religous
> wars of the 1500's that raged for better part of 50 years
> and killed one quarter of all Europe.

quote:

---

> Nor is that old history. For teh last 30 years teh christian far
> right and GOP has supprted every mass murdering, genocidal
> bastrad it could embrace.
> Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot, Rios Montt of Guatemala, Pinochet,
> D'Aubisson of El Salvador and more.

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> Mass murder is good says the GOP president, leaders of House and
> Senatem GOP rank and file, far right religous leaders, mainstream
> christian denomintaions leaders and rank and file christian GOP
> voters.

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> I don't know about you, but it has been making me sick to my
> stomach for 30 long years.

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> --
> The official spokesman of the Foxes said
> today that investigation into what happened
> to the henhouse may be needed.

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> Cheerful Charlie

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>"Mike V." <michaelav@SPAMcox.net> wrote in message
>
>
>Why? Are you projecting your carrot and stick?
>
>
>Maybe that's a sign?
>
>
>Yeah, they are followed by someone hitting them with the stick and eating
>the carrot. lol.
>
>Anyways, atheists are just riding the coat tails of the people with higher
>purpose who built them their cradles to sleep in.
>

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>
> Why would I bother doing good, though? I mean, it will earn me the

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> end result, anyway. Of course you're going to say "because it's just
> the right thing to do." But there's something deeper than just the
> incentives. People who do good without expecting rewards, do it

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afterlife.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> atheism is the belief that there is no god, and that when we die we
> cease to excist.

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>"raven1" <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in message
>
>
>Or..... a.... troll....

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> horror of ceasing to exist, I can't be motivated to care, love,
> believe, or have faith.
>

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> "Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote
>
>
> ...what wit...
>
>
> Um, did you ever hear of the fallacy of not making any sense since your
> comment doesn't have any logical application? Idiot.
>
> Humans learn quite a bit from observation and are taught lessons by
> examples all the time. You need to switch sides, because you are making
> the mystics look like the rational people by contrast.

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>
> will(from the reality based community) wrote:
>
> But atheism crushes spirit and when our spirits have been crushed, how can
> we be motivated? Why would I act out of love in a universe where love
> doesn't matter? The horrors of impending non existance have sucked all the
> faith out of me, now I can't have any faith in the concept of right or
> wrong, or love. Everything is meaningless, so why have positive
> motivation?

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>
> Jordan wrote:
>
> That's exactly my point. If we're going to cease to exist in oblivion,
> then caring, good, faith, love, believing in tommorrow, and "we owe it to
> our children" doesn't matter. Atheism says we're not going to be conscious
> again, we're never going to think or feel again. What happens to the world
> won't matter if we'll never feel emotions about it, or even exist to see
> it.

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> Atheism has a way of crushing one's spirit and encouraging jadeness and
> nihlism. What does having the right to do something or the lack thereof
> matter? What does murder being wrong matter? You say murder is wrong,
> but why does right or wrong matter? It's all meaningless. If atheism is
> reality, then why should I have faith in the concepts of right or
> wrong, or be inspired to avoid doing wrong acts.

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> If you look at the Bible, the requirements for getting into Heaven are
> pretty clear - the first is to accept God, the second is to give of
> yourself selflessly.

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>How so?
>
>I believe in aspirin because my headache goes away and my fever goes
>down after I take one, which is just what scientific studies say should
>happen. I don't believe the THEORY of evolution, however, because it
>does not adequately explain how life began and how it got to this
>stage.

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>Most genetic mutations are harmful, not beneficial, for example.

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>The
>laws of thermodynamics and entropy suggest that the universe moves
>towards disorder not a state of order. Then there is the idea of
>irreducable complexity of certain systems. And if animals and humans
>all evolved from common ancestors, where are the intermediate species?
>For example, we have dogs and we have horses, humans and apes. Horses
>are said to have evolved from dogs, and humans from apes. If each step
>in the