quote:

---

> Mandatory Bliggy panic reply in 3, 2, 1...
>

quote:

---

>
> John Carmack: "Xbox 360 has far and away the best development
> tools...and the hardware is comparable"
>
> Geoff: "So you don't think PS3 is going to more powerful [than Xbox
> 360]?"
> John Carmack: "PS3 is probably marginally more powerful, in terms of
> raw flops and graphic operations, but that's not really the best way
> to look at things. When you look at these development cycles that
> stretch over years and years, being 20% easier to develop on is much
> more important than being 20% more powerful."
>
> John Carmack: "I make little nitpicky decisions about say, well, I
> prefer the symmetric approach that MS has over the asymmetric Cell
> approach, but you can do great games on either one of them, and I make
> fundamental decisions based on development tools and depth of
> documentation, which Microsoft has been superior on."
>
> ---
> FREE Xbox 360 declared legit on CNN and Wired.com
> http://xbox360s.freepay.com/?r=23689706

quote:

---

>
> John Carmack: "Xbox 360 has far and away the best development
> tools...and the hardware is comparable"
>
> Geoff: "So you don't think PS3 is going to more powerful [than Xbox
> 360]?"
> John Carmack: "PS3 is probably marginally more powerful, in terms of
> raw flops and graphic operations, but that's not really the best way
> to look at things. When you look at these development cycles that
> stretch over years and years, being 20% easier to develop on is much
> more important than being 20% more powerful."

quote:

---

> listermonocle@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Unfortunately in the Xbox360's case, the PS3 is atleast 200% more
> powerful than the 360
>
> --
>

quote:

---

> "SO basically, Carmack is a lazy programmer. "
>
> And which ones aren't? Find the programmers who want to spend more time
> and effort to get the same results.More time spent programming means
> more money spent and less profit. This is a business.

quote:

---

>
> "Unfortunately in the Xbox360's case, the PS3 is atleast 200% more
> powerful than the 360 "
>
> Genius.
>
> ---
> Free Xbox 360 - declared legit by CNN and Wired
> http://xbox360s.freepay.com/?r=23689706
>

quote:

---

>
><listermonocle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1129693654.821544.142350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

quote:

---

>You never hear Hideo Kojima complaining about how hard it is to
>program on a playstation. LOL.
>
>Carmack is a non-innovative programmer i would say. He wants to be able to
>rehash, and reload, just like EA.
>--Brenden

quote:

---

> should i go on?? Plain and simple Carmack is a XXXXX. He can go 360
> exclusive for all i care. When was the last time he made anything
> worth posting about?

quote:

---

>
> "KillzoneBigNunts" <Killzone@sony.com> wrote in message
> news:87099$4355bdeb$42139216$6667@DIALUPUSA.NET...
>
> In the case of people programming for the PS3, it will be like like a
> gorilla trying to fly an F-22

quote:

---

>
>Strychnine wrote:
>
>
>So is that why MGS4 looks better than ANYTHING on the Xbox360?
>
>--
>

quote:

---

> What part of vaporware do you not understand tard boy?

quote:

---

> Carmack is a non-innovative programmer i would say.
> ... He shouldnt have to work hard to make a game. Right??

quote:

---

> Besides, who ever said it was going to get easier??

quote:

---

> Brenden D. Chase wrote:
>
>
> Your assumption is that Carmack was whining about how hard it is to
> develop
> for the PS3, he wasn't. Geoff asked him which console was easier to
> develop
> for and he answered the question. He wasn't whining or complaining, he was
> making a simple statement.
>
>
>

quote:

---

> John Carmack: "Xbox 360 has far and away the best development
> tools...and the hardware is comparable"
>
> Geoff: "So you don't think PS3 is going to more powerful [than Xbox
> 360]?"
> John Carmack: "PS3 is probably marginally more powerful, in terms of
> raw flops and graphic operations, but that's not really the best way
> to look at things. When you look at these development cycles that
> stretch over years and years, being 20% easier to develop on is much
> more important than being 20% more powerful."
>
> John Carmack: "I make little nitpicky decisions about say, well, I
> prefer the symmetric approach that MS has over the asymmetric Cell
> approach, but you can do great games on either one of them, and I make
> fundamental decisions based on development tools and depth of
> documentation, which Microsoft has been superior on."

quote:

---

> In a similar interview (maybe in PC Gamer, but I can't remember), he also
> said that the difference in the development environment between Xbox360
> and PS3 is much smaller than the the difference between Xbox and PS2. He
> thrashed the PS2's developer tools, then said PS3 made a lot of strides
> towards bringing the developer tools closer to those of Xbox.

quote:

---

> Brenden's a dumbass.

quote:

---

>
>MS#1Fanboy-JoJo wrote:
>
>
>That's being unfair... The demo they showed of MGS4 had enough
>slow-down and frame stutter to satisfy me that it was running on actual
>hardware. :^)
>
>- Jordan
>

quote:

---

>
> Fred Liken wrote:
>
> Nice call Fred, IAWTP.

quote:

---

>
>"Robert P Holley" <holleyrp@delanet.com> wrote in message
>news:1129752946.981102.22170@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>Yep. Anyone that would be stupid enough to call Carmack a lazy developer is
>a certified dumbass. No reversies. No tag backs.
>
>

quote:

---

> Still, I fail to see why Carmack's comments about console programming are
> given so much attention.
>
> Yeah, he was a bigshot in the PC industry.
>
> Was.
>
> A long time ago.

quote:

---

> Cranked out Doom & Doom2 and after that...?

quote:

---

> Quake and just about every
> game since has basically just been a tech demo for the graphics engine.

quote:

---

> Most gamers don't want to buy a game engine, they want to buy a GAME.

quote:

---

> Fred Liken wrote:
>
> Nice call Fred, IAWTP.

quote:

---

>My point being: The best games come from the developers that push the
>limits. The ones who arent afraid to get dirty. The ones who arent

quote:

---

>When they are having that first meeting about the design of the game, i
>doubt there is some guy named Carmack in the back of the room stopping
>the meeting at every idea and saying... i'm sorry boss, that's just too
>hard to do, i dont want to do it. People like that get fired. I guess

quote:

---

>
> Commander Keen was done at a time when people thought SNES-quality
>blitting was impossible on a PC. Wolfenstein and Doom did raycasting
>pseudo 3D before anyone else got it going at fast enough speeds for

quote:

---

>games. Quake was one of the first software 3D renderers for FPS games
>(yes, and Abrash deserves a _lot_ of the credit too). Moreover,

quote:

---

>was ahead of his time with lightmaps (as opposed to vertex-based
>lighting). GLQuake was _the_ game that pushed 3D accelerators for PCs.
>
> From practically the beginning of his career, he's pushed hardware
>to the limits. He is the guy you are extolling, not the guy
>you're excoriating.
>
>
> Yeeeesh.

quote:

---

> not his job. I do not know.
> But i feel, that what he said is more like a signal to develop on the
> Xbox rather than on PS platform.

quote:

---

> Which developer do you work for Fred?

quote:

---

> Robert P Holley wrote:
>
> Would you like some mouthwash, miss?

quote:

---

> How anyone can call Carmack a lazy programmer is beyond me.

quote:

---

>Personally, i do not understand it eighter. Sure, i have played Doom
>on the PC and all the follow-ups. But somehow i got annoyed playing
>everytime the same ol games (plus, there was not even a story).
>For me, i found out, that you get on consoles better games in terms of
>story.

quote:

---

>I do not think, that a game is just graphics, its the story to it. In
>this terms, i think Carmack is not a great programmer. Perhaps its not
>his job. I do not know.

quote:

---

> should i go on?? Plain and simple Carmack is a XXXXX. He can go 360
> exclusive for all i care. When was the last time he made anything worth
> posting about?

quote:

---

>
>That was my point. Yes, I know about his past accomplishments, but lately
>it just seems that people consider him to be some sort of god even though
>his last big game was a joke (Daikatana) in terms of graphics, performance,
>concept, and execution.

quote:

---

>
> That was my point. Yes, I know about his past accomplishments, but lately
> it just seems that people consider him to be some sort of god even though
> his last big game was a joke (Daikatana) in terms of graphics,
> performance,
> concept, and execution.
>
> The guy's become all hype, ego and no substance.

quote:

---

>
>"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
>
>
>John Romero made Daikatana, you sad tool. Damn, you are XXXXing stupid.
>
>
>

quote:

---

> Damn Fred. You sure can be harsh.

quote:

---

> I wonder what his secret project is now?
> LOL! Probably Daikatana 2.
>
> http://www.rome.ro/

quote:

---

>"Joerg Jaeger" wrote:
>
>Played Deus Ex, Half Life/Half Life 2/FEAR? Not that im saying PC is
>better than console, there are good games with good storys on both

quote:

---

>
>No, writting a story isnt the programmers job. Or designing the game
>for that matter, not these days. Besides in 1994 story wasn not
>considered important in a first person shooter it was just tacked onto
>to explain things.

quote:

---

>
>Story and game design is little to do with the technically ability to
>program. Have you ever programmed or have any idea what it invloves?

quote:

---

> Again, stunningly ignorant.

quote:

---

> His last game was Quake 4 (insofar as the Doom 3 engine was
> expanded for Q4), and before that, Doom 3.

quote:

---

> Daikatana was John Romero, who had left id by that point.

quote:

---

> "FooAtari" <fooatari.usenet@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:RJO5f.441
>
>
> Ignorance, plain and simple. No effort to actually educate themselves
> before they run their mouths. Par for the course for Brenden and Jacobs.
> They're both spouting nonsense left and right.
>

quote:

---

> "Brenden D. Chase" <brenden.chase@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
>
> I'm not allowed to tell. You can look it up.
>

quote:

---

>
> Just because Carmack is well known, you assume he's not a lazy programmer,

quote:

---

> for all you know he could have had some assistant tighten up the coding
> for him. You all make it sound like he's a god to you.. or your best
> friend.

quote:

---

> The one good thing he did was doom. and yes it was revolutionary at the
> time. Well technically wolfenstien came first.. but Doom was his bread and
> butter.

quote:

---

>
> up where??? Carmacks XXX??

quote:

---

> I may be the only one laughing at that... but hey.. at least i'm laughing.

quote:

---

> You and the stoog are all serious and hard up about one guy... calm down,
> damn!

quote:

---

>
>Well, i played Deus Ex and Halflife. Yes, you are right. Except Fear,
>which i did not play so far.
>My point was, that the most games on the pc do not have a well
>developed story. At least not a story what consumed me.

quote:

---

>
>Well, that maybe. But there were games that showed at story to
>progress. I remember from my Amiga the game Wings. I just loved the
>game and the story it had.
>Well Doom was what it was. A shooter with no story and yes, it
>impressed me with the graphic at the time.
>Which i believe hypend the demand on new cpu's, because of the
>graphics.
>Besides, Carmack was not just a simple programer. He designed the game
>as well.
>I choose Halflife over Doom.

quote:

---

[vbcol=seagreen]
>No, do i have to? I don't think. As a consumer, i decide if i like the
>product or not. I don't have to know how hard or easy it is to
>program. I don't care how hard it is to develop a car eighter.
>Programer are no gods.

quote:

---

> "Brenden D. Chase" <brenden.chaseREMOVE@THISgmail.com> wrote
>
>
> ??
>
>
> Yeah, you are laughable.
>
>
> lol. Nice attempt to save face. Sadly, you've lost all credibility.
>

quote:

---

>doom II? Pardon my 'ignorance'!)
>
>Actually, i dont really think i'd classify it as ignorance. I would rather
>call it a lack of caring. I dont have the time or the patience to research
>the Carmack experience. But i thank you for the brief lesson. Any final
>words??? OF COURSE THERE ARE... LOL.

quote:

---

>
> Sadly, you have to come on a internet newsgroup to 'prove' that you have
> credibility.
>
> I look at it as entertainment. Heck, what else is it good for? You can
> hardly ever trust a word anyone says around here.

quote:

---

> To make you feel warranted; i do not know of the technical significants of
> Commander Keen.

quote:

---

> I HAVE played all of the games you've touted for Carmack, but at that time
> in my life, it was more about the games than the technology.

quote:

---

> Actually, i dont really think i'd classify it as ignorance. I would rather
> call it a lack of caring. I dont have the time or the patience to research
> the Carmack experience.

quote:

---

> But i thank you for the brief lesson. Any final words??? OF COURSE THERE
> ARE... LOL.

quote:

---

> So if you don't know and you don't care, why are you wasting our
> time?

quote:

---

>"Joerg Jaeger" wrote:
>
>
>Most games or most FPS games? The storys in HL and Deus EX were quite
>good IMO.

quote:

---

>
>I would choose Half-Life over Doom as well. My only point being that
>there was pretty much no storys to FPS game in the early nineties and
>none was expected.
>
>He did also design the game, but game design was also simpler then and
>was relatively easy to cope with once he had programmed the enigne.

quote:

---

>
>
>My point about the programming was that how does this -
>
>"I do not think, that a game is just graphics, its the story to it. In
>this terms, i think Carmack is not a great programmer."
>
>relate to programming. Where does the story in a game involve the
>programmers skill? If you have never programmed and do not know what it
>invloves why pass comment on why you think Carmack is not a good
>programmer? The ability of the programmer has no relation to the story
>of a game whats so ever. Perhaps the lack of story in Doom shows that
>he is not good at creating a story for a game, but that has no relation
>to his programming skills at all.