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developers now have REAL Xbox360 hardware
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even though it is not FINAL hardware, at least developers have in their new
BETA KITS, the actual CPU, GPU and memory architectures that the actual Xbox
360 will have. the only changes made between BETA and FINAL hardware are
things like final clockspeeds, perhaps a few tweaks & adjustments here and
there. But now developers can finally start making REAL Xbox 360 games,
rather than developing games on modified G5 Macs or PCs, with old
(2003-2004) ATI graphics cards
.......................................................................................................
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/630/630649p1.html
Xbox 360 Beta Kits Arrive
Microsoft has sent the beta kits to developers.
by Douglass C. Perry
June 30, 2005 - IGN learned this week that Microsoft has finally sent Xbox
360 beta kits to its core development partners, who are currently analyzing
the new hardware.
Three independent sources confirmed the kits' arrival, and one source said
that his team is in the process of "wrapping their heads around the new
machines."
Prior to receiving the kits, Xbox 360 developers used G5 Macs or PCs with
approximate specs. The lack of beta kits at E3 had a profound affect on
Microsoft's and its partners' showings. None of the teams demonstrated games
using the beta kits, which contain the Xbox 360 chipsets, including the
powerful custom graphics ship. All of those games were running at 25% to 30%
of the chips actual potential -- and, well, it showed.
But if the visuals shown on Bizarre Creations are to be believed, then the
new beta kits will indeed materialize the graphic punch that Microsoft has
had planned all along.
None of the development teams would comment on the beta kits, however, as
they are under strict guidelines not to speak to the press. We will have
more on this development as soon as possible.
| |
| Blig Merk 2005-07-04, 12:31 am |
| Holy Crap! They are just NOW getting BETA DEVKITS!?!?! And xflop 1.5
full circle fanfairies were criticizing Sony for getting PS3 Beta
Devkits to over 100 developers over 3 months ago? The difference is
Sony is not claiming to get finished product on the shelves before the
end of this year while Micro$haft is. What the hell! When do they plan
to get a FINISHED xflop 1.5 full circle to developers? The day before
it goes on sale? LOL!!! It will be interesting to hear more about this
BETA DEVKIT. It isn't even a finished devkit, much less final hardware.
My bet is that it is a multi-processor motherboard with multiple CPUs
and an overclocked Radeon 850XT for the GPU. Geez, this whole thing
reeks of disaster. There isn't anything really being said about launch
titles except for a few and the better ones will be out on the PC long
before that. The other couple being mentioned look or sound mediocre as
hell. Now, at this late stage, it is guaranteed that any launch titles
will NOT be beta tested on actual hardware before being duped and
distributed. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! ROTFLMAO!!!
xenon wrote:
quote:
> even though it is not FINAL hardware, at least developers have in their new
> BETA KITS, the actual CPU, GPU and memory architectures that the actual Xbox
> 360 will have. the only changes made between BETA and FINAL hardware are
> things like final clockspeeds, perhaps a few tweaks & adjustments here and
> there. But now developers can finally start making REAL Xbox 360 games,
> rather than developing games on modified G5 Macs or PCs, with old
> (2003-2004) ATI graphics cards
>
> ......................................................................................................
> http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/630/630649p1.html
>
> Xbox 360 Beta Kits Arrive
> Microsoft has sent the beta kits to developers.
> by Douglass C. Perry
> June 30, 2005 - IGN learned this week that Microsoft has finally sent Xbox
> 360 beta kits to its core development partners, who are currently analyzing
> the new hardware.
>
>
>
> Three independent sources confirmed the kits' arrival, and one source said
> that his team is in the process of "wrapping their heads around the new
> machines."
>
> Prior to receiving the kits, Xbox 360 developers used G5 Macs or PCs with
> approximate specs. The lack of beta kits at E3 had a profound affect on
> Microsoft's and its partners' showings. None of the teams demonstrated games
> using the beta kits, which contain the Xbox 360 chipsets, including the
> powerful custom graphics ship. All of those games were running at 25% to 30%
> of the chips actual potential -- and, well, it showed.
>
> But if the visuals shown on Bizarre Creations are to be believed, then the
> new beta kits will indeed materialize the graphic punch that Microsoft has
> had planned all along.
>
> None of the development teams would comment on the beta kits, however, as
> they are under strict guidelines not to speak to the press. We will have
> more on this development as soon as possible.
| |
| Mike B 2005-07-04, 3:33 am |
|
"Blig Merk" <blig_murk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120446475.317242.52610@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
quote:
> Holy Crap! They are just NOW getting BETA DEVKITS!?!?! And xflop 1.5
> full circle fanfairies were criticizing Sony for getting PS3 Beta
> Devkits to over 100 developers over 3 months ago? The difference is
> Sony is not claiming to get finished product on the shelves before the
> end of this year while Micro$haft is. What the hell! When do they plan
> to get a FINISHED xflop 1.5 full circle to developers? The day before
> it goes on sale? LOL!!! It will be interesting to hear more about this
> BETA DEVKIT. It isn't even a finished devkit, much less final hardware.
> My bet is that it is a multi-processor motherboard with multiple CPUs
> and an overclocked Radeon 850XT for the GPU. Geez, this whole thing
> reeks of disaster. There isn't anything really being said about launch
> titles except for a few and the better ones will be out on the PC long
> before that. The other couple being mentioned look or sound mediocre as
> hell. Now, at this late stage, it is guaranteed that any launch titles
> will NOT be beta tested on actual hardware before being duped and
> distributed. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! ROTFLMAO!!!
OMG!!!! LOL! OMG!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! ROTFLMAO!!! MS IS DEAD!!
LOL, OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! XBOX360 IS DEAD!!!!11!! BLIGGY BLIG!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! ROTFLMAO!!! MUKKY MUK RULES!!!
OOOOOOOOHHHHMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!1!111111!!!!!!!!!11!!
| |
|
| Mike B wrote:
quote:
> "Blig Merk" <blig_murk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1120446475.317242.52610@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
> OMG!!!! LOL! OMG!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! ROTFLMAO!!! MS IS DEAD!!
> LOL, OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! XBOX360 IS DEAD!!!!11!! BLIGGY BLIG!!!
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! ROTFLMAO!!! MUKKY MUK RULES!!!
> OOOOOOOOHHHHMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!1!111111!!!!!!!!!11!!
>
>
Telegram for Mongo
| |
| Donald Richter 2005-07-04, 8:31 pm |
|
"Bilge Merk" <bilge_murk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120446475.317242.52610@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
quote:
> Holy Crap! They are just NOW getting BETA DEVKITS!?!?! And xflop 1.5
> full circle fanfairies were criticizing Sony for getting PS3 Beta
> Devkits to over 100 developers over 3 months ago? The difference is
> Sony is not claiming to get finished product on the shelves before the
> end of this year while Micro$haft is. What the hell! When do they plan
> to get a FINISHED xflop 1.5 full circle to developers? The day before
> it goes on sale? LOL!!! It will be interesting to hear more about this
> BETA DEVKIT. It isn't even a finished devkit, much less final hardware.
> My bet is that it is a multi-processor motherboard with multiple CPUs
> and an overclocked Radeon 850XT for the GPU. Geez, this whole thing
> reeks of disaster. There isn't anything really being said about launch
> titles except for a few and the better ones will be out on the PC long
> before that. The other couple being mentioned look or sound mediocre as
> hell. Now, at this late stage, it is guaranteed that any launch titles
> will NOT be beta tested on actual hardware before being duped and
> distributed. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! ROTFLMAO!!!
Pay no attention to bilgefake. bilgefake's immature spamtrums lack both
truth and sanity.
| |
| Zackman 2005-07-04, 8:31 pm |
| Blig Merk wrote:
quote:
> Holy Crap! They are just NOW getting BETA DEVKITS!?!?!
Yep, and earlier in the process than developers had Xbox betas, too. Cool
huh? You really need to brush up on your console history before you make
yourself look like even more of a moron. Do you actually know this little
about first-gen game development? The majority of the work can easily be
done on alpha hardware. Art assets, animation, AI, story, all the
fundamental code, can all be done on machines that approximate the hardware.
Four months is plenty of time to fine-tune that code on near-final hardware.
And hey, guess what? Consoles don't launch with 100% of their entire
five-year libraries available on day one, dipshit.
quote:
> And xflop 1.5
> full circle fanfairies were criticizing Sony for getting PS3 Beta
> Devkits to over 100 developers over 3 months ago?
Except that was the FIRST PS3 hardware they got. Those Linux PCs with off
the shelf Nvidia cards are Sony's version of Microsoft's Xbox 360 alphas. If
they want to call them beta kits, that's their choice. I can call you sane.
Doesn't mean it's accurate.
quote:
> Geez, this
> whole thing reeks of disaster.
quote:
> There isn't anything really being said
> about launch titles except for a few and the better ones will be out
> on the PC long before that.
quote:
> The other couple being mentioned look or
> sound mediocre as hell.
Bligmerk Full Circle, so hard up for anything new that he's cutting and
pasting his Xbox diatribes from 2001 now.
You're not saying anything you didn't say back then, my little man-child.
History will again prove you wrong, and you will again fail to learn from
it. What is it they say about insanity? Doing the same thing over and over
again but expecting a different result? If so, you truly are insane.
-Z-
| |
| Strychnine 2005-07-04, 8:31 pm |
|
"Blig Merk" <blig_murk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120446475.317242.52610@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
quote:
> Holy Crap! They are just NOW getting BETA DEVKITS!?!?! And xflop 1.5
> full circle fanfairies were criticizing Sony for getting PS3 Beta
> Devkits to over 100 developers over 3 months ago? The difference is
> Sony is not claiming to get finished product on the shelves before the
> end of this year while Micro$haft is. What the hell! When do they plan
> to get a FINISHED xflop 1.5 full circle to developers? The day before
> it goes on sale? LOL!!! It will be interesting to hear more about this
> BETA DEVKIT. It isn't even a finished devkit, much less final hardware.
> My bet is that it is a multi-processor motherboard with multiple CPUs
> and an overclocked Radeon 850XT for the GPU. Geez, this whole thing
> reeks of disaster. There isn't anything really being said about launch
> titles except for a few and the better ones will be out on the PC long
> before that. The other couple being mentioned look or sound mediocre as
> hell. Now, at this late stage, it is guaranteed that any launch titles
> will NOT be beta tested on actual hardware before being duped and
> distributed. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! ROTFLMAO!!!
>
quote:
>Yawn<
| |
| Doug Jacobs 2005-07-07, 8:32 pm |
| In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Zackman <zackman@spamisevilearthling.net> wrote:
quote:
> Blig Merk wrote:
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Yep, and earlier in the process than developers had Xbox betas, too. Cool
> huh? You really need to brush up on your console history before you make
> yourself look like even more of a moron. Do you actually know this little
> about first-gen game development? The majority of the work can easily be
> done on alpha hardware. Art assets, animation, AI, story, all the
> fundamental code, can all be done on machines that approximate the hardware.
> Four months is plenty of time to fine-tune that code on near-final hardware.
Blig Merk still has somewhat of a valid point. He just isn't very good at
articulating it...
Why is it that it's taken Microsoft so long to get beta kits to their
developers? If I were Ballmer, I'd be pretty embearassed that the best
they could show at E3 was a couple of hacked-up Macintoshes.
While it is true that you can certainly do a large amount of development
without final hardware, you're essentially banking on the fact that it
won't be very difficult to move the project from one platform to another.
Also, much of the fine-tuning you talk about will take place in drivers
and graphic libraries. 4 months is not a long time to fine tune a system
like that. Wait, what am I saying? 4 months? Make that 3 - maybe even 2.
Manufacturing and shipping takes time too. The game's gotta go gold in
LESS than 4 months.
Yeah, it can be done...but I gotta tell you, projects that are put under
that much pressure rarely turn out as good as they could have if given a
realistic schedule.
Remember, Microsoft is only going to have 1 holiday season to itself, and
unlike the PS2, the Xbox360 isn't going to have the full benefit of
backwards compatibility to help cover up a poor launch library. A poor
launch library is the last thing Xbox360 needs.
quote:
> And hey, guess what? Consoles don't launch with 100% of their entire
> five-year libraries available on day one, dipshit.
Hey, guess what? That still doesn't mean you can launch half-finished,
unpolished games on launch day.
If Microsoft expects to have a chance at gaining against Sony, they cannot
mess up the launch. Period. They already missed E3, which I still feel
was their best opportunity to really hype the market about their console.
| |
| Zackman 2005-07-14, 6:31 am |
| Doug Jacobs wrote:
quote:
> Blig Merk still has somewhat of a valid point. He just isn't very
> good at articulating it...
Bligmerk rarely has any point, valid or otherwise.
quote:
> Why is it that it's taken Microsoft so long to get beta kits to their
> developers? If I were Ballmer, I'd be pretty embearassed that the
> best
> they could show at E3 was a couple of hacked-up Macintoshes.
Why? E3 attendees don't buy consoles. And 80% of a console's sales are made
after the first year. What else were they supposed to do? Not show anything?
Show CGI bullshit like Sony did? What?
And as I'm sure you know, Xbox developers got their Xbox beta kits even
closer to the launch date than this.
quote:
> The game's gotta
> go gold in
> LESS than 4 months.
Given that more than 90% of the work has already been done on most of the
launch games, that's not unreasonable.
quote:
> Remember, Microsoft is only going to have 1 holiday season to itself,
> and
> unlike the PS2, the Xbox360 isn't going to have the full benefit of
> backwards compatibility to help cover up a poor launch library.
An overstated advantage in my opinion, but yeah. Still, as long as they make
the top-tier games backwards compatible, I'll be happy to disconnect my Xbox
the day I get my Xbox 360.
quote:
> A
> poor
> launch library is the last thing Xbox360 needs.
The PS2 had one of the worst launch libraries in recent console history, and
it didn't seem to hurt sales. The Xbox 360s launch library is already
looking better than the Xbox's did.
Halo looked like crap at E3 in May 2001 and launched in November 2001 as one
of the best reviewed games of this console generation. Maybe, just maybe,
the multi-billion dollar corporation that is Microsoft knows what they're
doing.
quote:
> Hey, guess what? That still doesn't mean you can launch
> half-finished,
> unpolished games on launch day.
I'm still not understanding why you think they would be. The Xbox went from
*concept* to *retail* in well under two years, and the launch games were
fine. Not all were great, but that's the reality of a console launch. None
of them were what you'd call half-finished though. Look at stuff like Kameo
and Perfect Dark Zero. These games have both been in development for more
than two years. EA can crank out games in 12 minutes flat, for better or for
worse. Full Auto already looks great, ditto for Gears of War and Condemned
and Elder Scrolls IV and Call of Duty 2 and Ghost Recon 3 -- they just need
to be seen on full-powered hardware. Etc etc.
quote:
> If Microsoft expects to have a chance at gaining against Sony, they
> cannot
> mess up the launch. Period.
Even if the launch was a little rocky, they have a year to get a head start
before the PS3 comes to the US. And the Xbox is already a household name.
Hell, this week alone I saw Xbox prominently featured in HBO's Entourage and
the movie The Island.
The console race is a marathon, not a sprint. Look at the Xbox... its best
year was last year, both sales wise and games wise.
quote:
> They already missed E3, which I still
> feel
> was their best opportunity to really hype the market about their
> console.
Um, what? Missed E3? What are you talking about? I ask you again, what were
they SUPPOSED to do? Go back in time three years and start work on the Xbox
360 six months earlier? Tell the E3 organizers to have the show in November?
Any showing is better than no showing. What are you comparing it to? Sony's
bullshit smoke and mirrors show? People's memories are so short. PS2
promised the moon, remember?
-Z-
| |
| Doug Jacobs 2005-07-15, 12:30 am |
| In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Zackman <zackman@spamisevilearthling.net> wrote:
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Why? E3 attendees don't buy consoles. And 80% of a console's sales are made
> after the first year. What else were they supposed to do? Not show anything?
> Show CGI bullshit like Sony did? What?
One of the goals of E3 is to get people excited about upcoming releases,
is it not? Do you remember all the excitement and hype that was generated
for Sony when that movie for MGS2 showed up at E3? The PS2 wasn't even
out yet, and there were people writing glowing articles about how
wonderful the PS2 was... If Microsoft expects to have even a half-serious
chance of putting a dent in the lead that Sony has in the market,
Microsoft really could have used something as awe-inspiring as that.
And they blew it, in my opinion.
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> An overstated advantage in my opinion, but yeah. Still, as long as they make
> the top-tier games backwards compatible, I'll be happy to disconnect my Xbox
> the day I get my Xbox 360.
Why do you think it's an overstated advantage? Videogames have tended to
be among the top sellers during the holiday shopping season. This holiday
season will be the first - and last - time that Microsoft won't have to
share the spot light with another company's next-gen console. Since you
claim that the majority of the consoles sold are sold within the first
year of release, I would expect you to see the importance of this holiday
shopping season for Microsoft. In 2006 it'll be Sony and Microsoft in
their first real head-to-head competition.
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> The PS2 had one of the worst launch libraries in recent console history, and
> it didn't seem to hurt sales. The Xbox 360s launch library is already
> looking better than the Xbox's did.
I'll grant you that the PS2's launch library was pretty awful, but the
Xbox's wasn't much better in my opinion. For the longest time the Halo
continued to be considered among the best games for XBox, even as the PS2
had slowly but surely shaken off its lanuch titles and had moved on.
quote:
> Halo looked like crap at E3 in May 2001 and launched in November 2001 as one
> of the best reviewed games of this console generation. Maybe, just maybe,
> the multi-billion dollar corporation that is Microsoft knows what they're
> doing.
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I'm still not understanding why you think they would be. The Xbox went from
> *concept* to *retail* in well under two years, and the launch games were
> fine. Not all were great, but that's the reality of a console launch. None
> of them were what you'd call half-finished though. Look at stuff like Kameo
> and Perfect Dark Zero. These games have both been in development for more
> than two years. EA can crank out games in 12 minutes flat, for better or for
> worse. Full Auto already looks great, ditto for Gears of War and Condemned
> and Elder Scrolls IV and Call of Duty 2 and Ghost Recon 3 -- they just need
> to be seen on full-powered hardware. Etc etc.
To be honest, the stuff I've seen for the 360 hasn't really impressed me
at all. (then again, the same could be said of the PS3 too.) I think
Microsoft is really in for a shock if the best they can do for the launch
is "slightly better graphics than the XBox." I'm sure things will get
better as time goes one...but then again, that raises the question as to
why bother with any of the consoles at luanch time. Especially since you
know the hardware will drop in a year or so, when the "real" games are due
out...
quote:
> Even if the launch was a little rocky, they have a year to get a head start
> before the PS3 comes to the US. And the Xbox is already a household name.
> Hell, this week alone I saw Xbox prominently featured in HBO's Entourage and
> the movie The Island.
Ooh. Product placement. Glad to see Microsoft spending its millions on
advertising...but what about the games? Afterall, who wants a pretty, but
boring, game
quote:
> The console race is a marathon, not a sprint. Look at the Xbox... its best
> year was last year, both sales wise and games wise.
That's true, but the PS2 had already long since won the race. All Xbox
managed to do was move up sligthly.
kk
| |
| Blig Merk 2005-07-15, 3:32 am |
| Zackcrybabybitch wrote:
quote:
> Doug Jacobs wrote:
>
>
> Bligmerk rarely has any point, valid or otherwise.
Better than being totally pointless like you.
quote:
>
> Why? E3 attendees don't buy consoles. And 80% of a console's sales are made
> after the first year. What else were they supposed to do? Not show anything?
> Show CGI bullshit like Sony did? What?
It only shows your desperation that you have to constantly lie like
this. It has been clearly pointed out that all the tech demos were in
real-time on an actual Cell processor in the alpha dev kit. The Final
Fantasy VII movie scene, which is being software rendered for the movie
release, was run in real-time using the hardware render engine. And you
are still a stupid idiot. CGI stands for Computer Graphic Image, which
can be hardware or software rendered, dolt.
quote:
> And as I'm sure you know, Xbox developers got their Xbox beta kits even
> closer to the launch date than this.
>
>
> Given that more than 90% of the work has already been done on most of the
> launch games, that's not unreasonable.
You have no idea how much is done and pulling a figure like 90% out of
your XXX only shows again that your desperation causes you to make up
numbers.
quote:
>
> An overstated advantage in my opinion, but yeah. Still, as long as they make
> the top-tier games backwards compatible, I'll be happy to disconnect my Xbox
> the day I get my Xbox 360.
>
>
> The PS2 had one of the worst launch libraries in recent console history, and
> it didn't seem to hurt sales. The Xbox 360s launch library is already
> looking better than the Xbox's did.
More lies.
quote:
> Halo looked like crap at E3 in May 2001 and launched in November 2001 as one
> of the best reviewed games of this console generation. Maybe, just maybe,
> the multi-billion dollar corporation that is Microsoft knows what they're
> doing.
The original Halo that was originally intended and being developed for
the PC looked fine, it was the downgrading to wedge into a crap console
is what caused it to look like crap. Their early alpha demo is still
around on the web and it still looks better than the load that came
from porting it to the XFLop.
quote:
>
> I'm still not understanding why you think they would be. The Xbox went from
> *concept* to *retail* in well under two years, and the launch games were
> fine. Not all were great, but that's the reality of a console launch. None
> of them were what you'd call half-finished though.
More bullshit. If the games had been any good, there would have been
more acceptance. There were some real stinkers in that launch line up
and no matter how much you lie to yourself, there are many people that
remember how bad that lineup was.
quote:
> Look at stuff like Kameo
> and Perfect Dark Zero. These games have both been in development for more
> than two years.
Another lie. Closer to 4 years. You are talking about Rare there. Both
those games were supposed to be for the XFLop. BTW, Kameo looks gay and
PDZ looks like XXX.
quote:
>EA can crank out games in 12 minutes flat, for better or for
>worse.
More over exaggerated bullshit. You think you make yourself sound cool
by making such stupid, assinine statements?
quote:
> Full Auto already looks great,
Looks very mediocre.
quote:
> ditto for Gears of War
A PC game that will be out on the PC before the xflop 1.5 full circle,
also not a launch game.
quote:
> and Condemned
Out on the PC before the xflop 1.5 full circle, also not a launch game.
quote:
> and Elder Scrolls IV
Definitely out on the PC before the xflop 1.5 full circle, looking and
playing much better on the PC and doubtful as a launch game.
quote:
> and Call of Duty 2
Out on the PC before the xflop 1.5 full circle, also looking and
playing much better on the PC
quote:
>and Ghost Recon 3 -- they just need
Possibly out on the xflop 1.5 full circle before the PC but looking and
playing much better on the PC.
quote:
> to be seen on full-powered hardware. Etc etc.
Yeah, like a good gaming PC.
quote:
>
>
> Even if the launch was a little rocky, they have a year to get a head start
> before the PS3 comes to the US.
More like six months. Always stretching and slithering like a snake,
aren't you?
quote:
>And the Xbox is already a household name.
> Hell, this week alone I saw Xbox prominently featured in HBO's Entourage and
> the movie The Island.
>
> The console race is a marathon, not a sprint. Look at the Xbox... its best
> year was last year, both sales wise and games wise.
Micro$haft proved they could lose $5 Billion dollars to make last place
in the console market and buy a household name. And that is strong
wise, phuktard?
quote:
>
> Um, what? Missed E3? What are you talking about? I ask you again, what were
> they SUPPOSED to do? Go back in time three years and start work on the Xbox
> 360 six months earlier? Tell the E3 organizers to have the show in November?
> Any showing is better than no showing. What are you comparing it to? Sony's
> bullshit smoke and mirrors show? People's memories are so short. PS2
> promised the moon, remember?
No, they didn't, you phukheaded bullshitting liar. You are so full of
shit there aren't enough waste treatment plants in the world to process
the shit you spew.
quote:
> -Z-
Z for Zackcrybabybitch
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