Nintendo gamecube - Re: Revolution controller: No Buttons, No Sticks, All Touch Screen

Author

Re: Revolution controller: No Buttons, No Sticks, All Touch Screen

Michael Cargill

2005-03-30, 6:35 pm

"Leon Dexter" <leondexterNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Lb41e.4127$gI5.2034@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

quote:

> "Michael Cargill" <mikementalist@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
>
and[vbcol=seagreen]
is[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Thanks for the insult. I never stoop to that, even on Usenet, but don't
> worry, you're forgiven.
> Now, I never said it's "wrong" to think that Pac-Man isn't a classic. But
> the overall consensus is obviously that it is. Collective opinion is the
> only fair measurement--otherwise every single game ever made would have to
> be considered "classic", because someone liked it.

Correct, every single game could easily be considered a classic because at
the end of the day it is all down to the individual opinions of people.
There is no 'fair measurement' at all for something like this because it is
down to individual opinion. Declaring a game as a classic is not
fact-based, it is opinion-based. Giving something 'classic' status is
partly meaningless - it isn't a tangible thing, you can't describe it. What
makes a game a classic for you may be completely different to what makes
another game a classic to me.

It is like declaring 'best graphics' - not everyone could agree on which
game had the best graphics. If 60% of people voted saying that Zelda WW had
better graphics over Doom 3, would that mean WW really did have better
graphics just because they are in the majority? Does that mean the people
who think that Doom 3 looks better are wrong?

quote:

> So Pac-Man IS a classic. The majority of us think so. That's a fact. Go
> ahead and call me an idiot again. I'll just call you wrong. Which you

are.

You really don't get it do you? If something is down to opinion then it is
NOT a fact, no matter how many people have the same opinion.

And who is this 'majority' that you are referring to? Majority of what? If
I get 10 people into a room and 6 of them say that ET on the Atari 2600 is a
classic, does that mean the other four are wrong if they disagree? What
about if I then add another 10 people and it turns out they hate ET with a
passion - that makes it 6 vs 14, so are the ET fans now wrong when
previously they were right?

And I never called you an idiot. I said that people who try to pass of
their opinion as fact are idiots. Going back to my original ET example -
the six who like ET are not idiots by default, and neither are the four who
do not like it. The idiots are those on either side who say to the other
"your opinion is wrong and mine is right, this game is/is not a classic and
that's a fact".

There are millions of Christians in the world who believe that God exists.
If this belief became the majority would that mean that God really does
exist, purely because the majority think so...?

quote:

> Europe,
>
> I said console games market. The PC/Amiga/Commodore market was fine. And
> the UK console market lags by about a year anyway--more back then,

probably.

So if there were large segments of the games market doing fine without
Nintendo (and continued to be fine even with Nintendo as a competitor) then
it suggests that Nintendo were not quite as important as you think.

quote:

Nintendo[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> "How did Nintendo define video games?" Let's see, where to start. They
> single-handedly revived the market with the most successful console in
> history, the NES.

So if they revived it, that means it was around before they were - so they
didn't define video games, someone else did.

quote:

> The NES controller design is still what we use today,
> albeit with enhancements like shoulder buttons (added by Nintendo) and
> 'analog' thumbsticks (added by Nintendo).

Erm, we most certainly do not use the NES controller design anymore.
Current console controllers have very little in common with the NES
controller - hardly any games use the D-Pad and I cannot remember the last
time I needed to press the Start or Select buttons either. And we have
already established that it was not Nintendo who came up the concept of
analog sticks.

quote:

> They redefined platform games (which they invented--ever hear of
> Game&Watch?) again, with Super Mario Bros, one of the most popular and
> copied games ever. For the next 10 years (and even onward till today),
> other companies would struggle to invent their own versions of

mascot-based

quote:

> platform games. Sonic, Bubsy, Aero, Cool Spot, even a new Pac-Man with

legs

quote:

> all got into the act, and many other better forgotten ones.

Companies trying to establish themselves with a brand or a mascot is a
concept that has been around for far longer than the games industry has.

quote:

> They made Duck Hunt, the first home light gun game.

I seem to remember light guns being on those TV Games systems before the NES
was around.

quote:

> Mario Kart invented the Kart genre, and also popularized weapons-based
> racers in general.

MK might have invented the 'gimmick' kart genre, but it wasn't the first
racer to have karts in it.

quote:

> Nintendo's game designs have inspired an entire generation of developers,
> and inspired hundreds of games from good to bad. The creators of Wipeout
> admit to being inspired by F-Zero.

But F-Zero certainly wasn't the first futuristic racer and racers were a
genre that had been around for years anyway.

quote:

> Daikatana's main character was named
> after Mr. Miyamoto. I could go on, but I doubt you'd care to hear

more--you

quote:

> might have to admit I'm right. Why don't you write to your favorite game
> developers and ask whether or not Nintendo was a big influence on their
> work? Maybe that would convince you.

And no doubt I would get replies from them saying that Nintendo did
influence them - but would that really mean anything? Time and again I have
read reviews and articles that say something like "Nintendo's influence is
present in all modern games..." but I sit there and wonder what this
actually means. It has been repeated so many times that I wonder if the
people who keep saying really know what they mean as it is just like an old
cliche. If something is repeated often enough then many people start
believing it without even knowing what they mean. In some quarters, to
oppose this idea is tantamount to blasphemy and the person who says it is
then challenged en masse and has to justify themselves. However, if they
just follow the party line then no-one even thinks about it or even bats an
eye-lid. To comment positively on Nintendo is almost expected.

Think to how many reviewers gave Black and White scores of 9/10 when it was
released - and how many of those very same reviewers looked back two months
later and wondered what they were on about. At the time of the games
release there was so much hype and positive talk about the new game
mechanics that just about everyone who reviewed it said how great it was. I
get the feeling that the same thing is going on when many people say
"Nintendo's influence is present in all modern games...".

Here are some games off the top of my head that I think are truly excellent:
Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Project Gotham Racing, Wolfenstein: Enemy
Territory, Command and Conquer, Rise of Nations, Civilisation, Call of Duty,
Baldurs Gate 2, Morrowind, Sega Rally, NiGHTS, Shenmue, Rez, Panzer Dragoon
Orta, Red Dog, Jet Force Gemini, Goldeneye 64, Perfect Dark, and Pro
Evoloution Soccer 4.

Obviously there are far more that I really like, but I would like to know
where the heavy Nintendo influence is in those titles. I cannot think how
any of those games can have been particulary influenced by anything that
Nintendo has done other than the fact that they are a competitor in the
games industry - but then so is every other developer in the world and so
they could claim the credit just the same.

quote:

certainly[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Game & Watch. Name a platform game prior to that. Checkers?

Game and Watch isn't the same at all, but it seems someone else has answered
this question already.