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Home > Archive > Nintendo gamecube > March 2005 > Re: Revolution controller: No Buttons, No Sticks, All Touch Screen
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Re: Revolution controller: No Buttons, No Sticks, All Touch Screen
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| Leon Dexter 2005-03-30, 3:47 am |
| "Michael Cargill" <mikementalist@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
quote:
> The fact that you keep attributing things like the use of the analogue
stick
quote:
> and rumble pack to Nintendo says to me that you think Nintendo should get
> the most credit.
We've been talking about Nintendo this whole time, and we're in a Nintendo
group (and a lot of other console groups as well, I see). I think talking
about Nintendo is relevant, and they certainly deserve credit for the analog
thumbstick and rumble found in all of our controllers today.
quote:
> I owe him for my continued existance, yes - but my parents were obviously
to
quote:
> credit for my existance in the first place.
Yeah, I said that. And you've just said that you owe the guy who saved your
life. So wouldn't it be the same case with Sony, in the hypothetical DVD
situation, and Nintendo, in the not-hypothetical console market situation?
quote:
> In all essence, it doesn't really make any difference which way round your
> hands go. People got on fine with the Atari stick arrangement, but
swapping
quote:
> them round is no big deal.
But it was a switch, and it was Nintendo who did it. Nobody's switched
back--they've all copied Nintendo instead. And every modification
Nintendo's made to the thing (other than removing the select button) has
also been copied.
quote:
> I am talking about the number of different designs of controller. Most
> don't have a Select button at all.
Which ones would those be? Most of them do--the only one of the current
three (assuming all third-party ones conform to the console they're made
for) that doesn't is the Gamecube controller.
quote:
> But you could then say that some of the things were already in place
before
quote:
> Nintendo had them. Controllers already had one button, so Nintendo adding
> more is nothing major - you said so yourself when saying that modern
> controllers only added to the number from the NES pad.
Some were, sure. I certainly never credited Nintendo with inventing
buttons. Shoulder buttons were a good add-on, though. But Nintendo's NES
pad was very different from the Atari joystick, and from the other designs
at the time as well--and it was copied all the way up 'till now.
quote:
> And how many times do you have to be told - the analogue stick is NOT down
> to Nintendo.
Repeat that all you want. I know you're not dumb enough to think that all
console controllers would have analog sticks today even if Nintendo hadn't
put one on the N64 controller. You just refuse to admit it. Come on, admit
you're not that dumb.
quote:
> The differences between modern controllers and the NES controller is
perhaps
quote:
> bigger than the difference between the Atari joysticks and the NES
> controller.
Yes, perhaps--but there have been 3 versions of Nintendo controllers along
the way, all of which had features copied by the rest of the industry.
quote:
>
> Popular arcade games had already made use of dual sticks - Robotron and
> Smash TV spring to mind, with Virutal On having dual analogue sticks. Not
> to mention PC games like Descent using dual analogue sticks as well.
Yes, but those were A) all fairly rare, B) not thumbsticks, and C) not
nigh-universally copied.
quote:
> What complete and utter ignorance. If MagicStickCo came up with the
concept
quote:
> and design first, then how can you say that Nintendo or Sony did? How can
> you say "it doesn't matter"...? It doesn't matter that much of what you
are
quote:
> attributing to Nintendo and Sony had already been invented, developed,
> designed and established up to 20 years before they did it?
Let me ask you a question. With that attitude, why would you credit
ANYTHING console-related, including the invention of the console itself?
Why? A console is a computer--there is nothing original about it by the
standards you are arguing. Why don't you just say that NO console company
has ever invented anything, and leave it at that?
quote:
> The person who put a radio in the car did not create anything new.
But he did have an idea that is now universally accepted as normal. That
may mean nothing to you, but it means a lot to people in the radio industry,
I bet. And to music fans who have cars, I'm thinking.
quote:
>
> Radio waves existed, but the radio itself did not. You need a radio in
> order to read the radio waves.
I know, I was just trying to show you how ridiculous you sound when you
claim that every idea is unoriginal and derivative of something else, and
unworthy of any credit whatsoever.
quote:
> Yes they can take credit for doing their homework, but they can't claim to
> have invented anything.
And Einstein? You left that part out. He came up with new concepts using
previous people's work as a base. Do you think he deserves any credit?
quote:
> I didn't ask for that, I asked what their influence was in the games I
> listed.
Before that, look back and see for yourself. Meanwhile, even though you
didn't take me up on it, I'm on a diatribe about Nintendo's bad points (only
the recent ones) in another thread. It's called "Metroid Prime 2
impressions". Take a look if you like and then call me a fanboy again--if
that was you. Too many people in this thread now.
quote:
> Partly that, but also partly from hearing your peers say it. If a couple
> young developers work with some older ones and he keeps on hearing them
> saying how influential Nintendo has been then they might naturally say it
as
quote:
> well, without necessarily knowing what this influence is.
Okay--but again, what's it take for that to happen? Why aren't those peers
going on about other companies instead of Nintendo? They have a reputation,
yes, but it's not a big accident or conspiracy.
quote:
>
> What are you on about? The only thing I said that I knew was how bad
> Nintendo has been over the years.
"The only thing I said". You've said a lot more than one thing. You've
basically tried to refute every thing I've said in this ridiculously long
thread.
quote:
> You yourself just said it - so please, tell me where the Nintendo
influence
quote:
> is in the games I mentioned before. If you cannot tell me this influence,
> then you are precisly the type of person I am talking about who doesn't
> allways know what this alleged influence actually is.
I mentioned one--Panzer Dragoon is very similar to Starfox. The rest of
them were mostly FPS games, a genre Nintendo has never done--which I'm sure
you know. It seems to me you hand-picked games that you think are very
different from Nintendo's games on purpose--and you still ended up with a
no-brainer.
quote:
> They did, actually. I have already stated that I had Quickshot (who are
NOT
quote:
> obscure) control pad that had a screw-on thumbstick for the D-pad. It
just
quote:
> wasn't analog.
Oh--it wasn't analog. And it also wasn't accepted as the universal
standard. And it also wasn't the newfangled digital "analog" that we use
today. I see.
quote:
> Actually, you could say that it wasn't until Sony put the analog sticks on
> their controller that it actually took off.
Okay, go ahead. That's not completely unfair, since they are the market
leader, a position they took after Nintendo introduced the N64 controller.
But there's some evidence against that--SEGA copied Nintendo's single
thumbstick, not once but twice, before Nintendo and Microsoft copied Sony's
addition.
quote:
> sticks
enough.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> 'Theory'? This is no theory, this is FACT. And if you want to get really
> pedantic you could say that no such thing as an analog stick exists at all
> because it still uses ones and zeros to calculate the movement.
Well, go ahead. You've already used every other argument to discredit
Nintendo for the most widely copied controller modification in the last
decade. Tell us the whole story. At what point did analog devices stop
using wires? When did they become truly digital to the point of having a
specific number of degrees? Who made the first thumbstick? What was the
first device to combine all these qualities? We'd all like to know who to
credit. You're so big on giving credit, name some names.
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