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If Al Gore had won the 2000 election
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| Gactimus 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| 1) Would he have reacted differently to 9/11?
Yes. Like Clinton before him, Gore would have approached 9/11 as a police
matter, rather than as an act of war. Osama and his cohorts would have been
indicted for murder. There would be no invasion of Afghanistan.
2) Would Iraq have been invaded?
No. Gore would have left him in power after being pussywhipped by France
and Germany for threatening their lucrative oil contracts.
3) Would the economy have tanked?
Even more so. The economy would have already been going down by the time
Gore would have taken office. You could have expected him to kill any
recovery by across the board tax increases.
4) Would North Korea have been dealt with differently?
Gore would have cut another deal with the North Koreans that the North
Koreans would then violate.
5) Would we be under the threat of terrorism if Gore was President?
No, because we would all be dead.
| |
| Thrasher 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:20:40 -0400, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
quote:
>1) Would he have reacted differently to 9/11?
>
>Yes. Like Clinton before him, Gore would have approached 9/11 as a police
>matter, rather than as an act of war. Osama and his cohorts would have been
>indicted for murder. There would be no invasion of Afghanistan.
Couple of cruise missiles, which probably would have been mis-directed
at Northen Alliance positions by accident.
quote:
>2) Would Iraq have been invaded?
>
>No. Gore would have left him in power after being pussywhipped by France
>and Germany for threatening their lucrative oil contracts.
Wouldn't have been necessary. The no-fly zones and the UN Oil-for-Food
programs were working fine, weren't they?
quote:
>3) Would the economy have tanked?
>
>Even more so. The economy would have already been going down by the time
>Gore would have taken office. You could have expected him to kill any
>recovery by across the board tax increases.
The economy had already hit the skids before the 2000 election. In
fact, I pointed that out to a bunch of people in Florida recount
flamefests here on usenet, when they kept insisting Gore was
responsible for a wonderful economy and should be president. The
Nasdaq started tumbling in spring of 1999 and the DOW followed in
summer of 2000. I *was* pointing out that the economy wasn't really
very good going into the 2000 elections, and was nothing to run on.
But people don't have to search the archives to see what anyone was
saying on usenet. A 5 minute google search will generate the actual
numbers and chart the trends for the 18 month period heading up to the
2000 elections. Nobody wants to see that though, they'd rather blame
everything on whoever it is they don't like instead. Which is really a
very productive way to expend energy.
quote:
>4) Would North Korea have been dealt with differently?
>
>Gore would have cut another deal with the North Koreans that the North
>Koreans would then violate.
Isn't that what Bush did? Gore wouldn't have even noticed North Korea
had nukes. Because, if he noticed North Korea had nukes, he would have
had to explain how that had happened under the noses of him and his
buddy Bill.
quote:
>5) Would we be under the threat of terrorism if Gore was President?
>
>No, because we would all be dead.
Not me. Not here, at least. After the first nuke went off in the US
I'd have been in Russia or Israel, standing in the shadow of somebody
who gives a XXXX about survival. I don't have a herd instint and I
don't respond to attack by huddling down and hoping somebody else
besides me gets killed first. If I have to be either a sheep or a
wolf, I'm a wolf... and I don't care who thinks they are going to
inherit the earth. They can run for the hills and hope the nukes don't
find them there, but I'll be someplace else. I'm a loyal US citizen
and a combat vet and I'd fight for my country, but I won't fight for
anyone that isn't even willing to fight for themselves. If things ever
get that bad in America, I'm going to be an illegal alien sompelace
else.
| |
| Gandalf Parker 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in
news:1j950zuavvfis.dlg@alaska.local:
quote:
> 3) Would the economy have tanked?
> 5) Would we be under the threat of terrorism if Gore was President?
These are the only ones where I disagree with your answers. The others
would probably be true enough although I wouldnt consider them to be bad
things to have happened.
As far as I can see you are saying that Gore would have continued acting
like Clinton. Im not sure who this is aimed at since repubs would say YEAH
and think thats bad, and democs would say YEAH and consider it good.
Gandalf Parker
| |
| everlast 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| Gandalf Parker wrote:
quote:
> Im not sure who this is aimed at since repubs would say YEAH
> and think thats bad, and democs would say YEAH and consider it good.
This Gactimus idiot aimed it at people who respond to trolls.
My only question is will he go away after the election? Probably not,
as he most likely doesn't even have a political opinion one way or the
other and just enjoys being a (insignificant) disruption on usenet.
--
My NWN Work So Far: http://tinyurl.com/6xy2f
"Pits of red smoke and fog are usually bad."
- Tip from Doom3 Manual
| |
| Joe Ottoson 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in
news:1j950zuavvfis.dlg@alaska.local:
quote:
> 1) Would he have reacted differently to 9/11?
>
> Yes. Like Clinton before him, Gore would have approached 9/11 as a
> police matter, rather than as an act of war. Osama and his cohorts
> would have been indicted for murder. There would be no invasion of
> Afghanistan.
It was a police matter.
quote:
> 2) Would Iraq have been invaded?
>
> No. Gore would have left him in power after being pussywhipped by
> France and Germany for threatening their lucrative oil contracts.
Would've saved us billions of dollars in the process.
quote:
> 4) Would North Korea have been dealt with differently?
>
> Gore would have cut another deal with the North Koreans that the North
> Koreans would then violate.
So in other words, no difference. Just less saber rattling.
quote:
> 5) Would we be under the threat of terrorism if Gore was President?
>
> No, because we would all be dead.
'Cause Cheney says it, it is probably true...
| |
| Grackle 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| "Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:1j950zuavvfis.dlg@alaska.local...
quote:
>
> 5) Would we be under the threat of terrorism if Gore was President?
>
> No, because we would all be dead.
Yes, that's the heart of the Bush campaign. Vote for Bush or you will die.
I'd rather be dead than have to tolerate another 4 years of that dried out
turd, and I'm not even American!
| |
| Fred Liken 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| "everlast" <everlast@jmjservices.com> wrote
quote:
> This Gactimus idiot aimed it at people who respond to trolls.
.... which is you, obviously ...
| |
| Augustus 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
|
"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:1j950zuavvfis.dlg@alaska.local...
quote:
> 1) Would he have reacted differently to 9/11?
9/11 might not have happened... Gore might have actually done work as
President rather than just spend most of his first few months as president
on vacation. Maybe he would have reacted to reports instead of using them
as a golf scorecard?
quote:
> 2) Would Iraq have been invaded?
>
> No. Gore would have left him in power after being pussywhipped by France
> and Germany for threatening their lucrative oil contracts.
Correct: No. But not for the reasons you state... you seem to think that
the USA actually had grounds to invade Iraq and the world stood by
condemning the action. The outside terrorist threats weren't coming from
Iraq but other countries... Bush invaded Iraq because all of his advisors
were pretty much his daddy's cronies from the gulf war and knew no better...
and his father was at the height of his popularity while invading Iraq.
quote:
> 3) Would the economy have tanked?
>
> Even more so.
Probably less so. With an already established relationship with Canada,
Gore probably woulnd't have gone on to alienate the US's biggest trade
partner (I know being from Texas Bush thinks its Mexico... but in reality
its Canada)
quote:
> 4) Would North Korea have been dealt with differently?
>
> Gore would have cut another deal with the North Koreans that the North
> Koreans would then violate.
If that was the case... then Korea would have looked bad in the eyes of the
US and the world. Compare that to what happened: Bush did nothing and so
everybody around the world (including US citizens) starting up with the
whole "Ah... because Korea has no vast oil reserves we can steal..."
Bush and the US really came out of the whole Korea thing looking like stupid
bullies... if Gore did what you said above the US would have looked good and
Korea would have looked like stupid bullies.
quote:
> 5) Would we be under the threat of terrorism if Gore was President?
Are you under threat of terrorism? Or do you just think you are because
your president, a one trick pony, tells you that you are? Or do you think
you are because of the "risk of terror attacks" level was raised recently
because of 2 year old data?
| |
| everlast 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| Fred Liken wrote:
quote:
> "everlast" <everlast@jmjservices.com> wrote
>
>
>
>
> ... which is you, obviously ...
I don't see posts from Gactimus. I only see replies to them.
Learn how to use a threaded newsreader.
--
My NWN Work So Far: http://tinyurl.com/6xy2f
"Pits of red smoke and fog are usually bad."
- Tip from Doom3 Manual
| |
| massivegrooves 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
|
Augustus wrote:
quote:
> "Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
> news:1j950zuavvfis.dlg@alaska.local...
>
>
>
> 9/11 might not have happened... Gore might have actually done work as
> President rather than just spend most of his first few months as president
> on vacation. Maybe he would have reacted to reports instead of using them
> as a golf scorecard?
Sounds like someone has been watching/listening to a little too much
Micheal Moore ;) It doesn't matter who the president was at the time,
it still most likely would have happened. We were vulnerable to this
type of an attack and still are really...
quote:
>
>
>
> Correct: No. But not for the reasons you state... you seem to think that
> the USA actually had grounds to invade Iraq and the world stood by
> condemning the action. The outside terrorist threats weren't coming from
> Iraq but other countries... Bush invaded Iraq because all of his advisors
> were pretty much his daddy's cronies from the gulf war and knew no better...
> and his father was at the height of his popularity while invading Iraq.
We invaded Iraq due to Saddam not complying with the sanctions and
resolutions. He kept jerking around inspectors, and it is hard to tell
where or what might have happened to the stuff he had, or how much of it
he "actually" may have properly disposed of...
quote:
>
>
>
> Probably less so. With an already established relationship with Canada,
> Gore probably woulnd't have gone on to alienate the US's biggest trade
> partner (I know being from Texas Bush thinks its Mexico... but in reality
> its Canada)
After 9/11 it doesn't matter who was in office, the economy was going to
take a hit from that alone.
quote:
>
>
>
> If that was the case... then Korea would have looked bad in the eyes of the
> US and the world. Compare that to what happened: Bush did nothing and so
> everybody around the world (including US citizens) starting up with the
> whole "Ah... because Korea has no vast oil reserves we can steal..."
> Bush and the US really came out of the whole Korea thing looking like stupid
> bullies... if Gore did what you said above the US would have looked good and
> Korea would have looked like stupid bullies.
>
>
>
>
> Are you under threat of terrorism? Or do you just think you are because
> your president, a one trick pony, tells you that you are? Or do you think
> you are because of the "risk of terror attacks" level was raised recently
> because of 2 year old data?
>
The threat of another attack/incident is real, could happen any time and
us not know a freakin' thing about it. I do think it does help to some
degree to have someone in office like Bush right now who the potential
attackers know is definitely going to come after them if they do do
something and leave any trace or clue as to who it is that did it. Gore
I don't think would be as likely to do something, and I don't see Kerry
being that way either.
| |
| Gactimus 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| "Augustus" <Imperial.Palace@Rome.com> wrote in
news:2qeo1cFuf76oU1@uni-berlin.de:
quote:
> "Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
> news:1j950zuavvfis.dlg@alaska.local...
>
>
> 9/11 might not have happened...
Do you really believe this or is that what Michael Moore told you?
quote:
> Gore might have actually done work as President rather than just spend
> most of his first few months as president on vacation. Maybe he would
> have reacted to reports instead of using them as a golf scorecard?
"Hey look - there was a weekend every week of Bush's first eight months in
office. That means he was ON VACATION 29% of the time right there! And he
was at his ranch an additional 13% of the time. So he was ON VACATION all
that time too! What? Working vacation? No habla, senor! Weekend meetings
at Camp David with Tony Blair and his cabinet? LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR
YOU! He was at his ranch 13% of the time so he must have been ON VACATION
and no presidential work was performed at all! And an additional 29% of
the time was weekends so he was ON VACATION that time too. I don't care
how many meetings he was in, how many decisions he made, how many
documents he signed, how many official functions he attended - it was a
weekend so he was ON VACATION!!!!!"
You people are idiots.
Yes, Bush took lots of vaction days, 2/3 of which were on weekends. Even
on "vacation" presidents are never really on "vacation". They are
physically away from the White House and that is all.
They have briefings and meetings, visits from world leaders, all the same
things that would occur at the White House.
quote:
>
> Correct: No. But not for the reasons you state... you seem to think
> that the USA actually had grounds to invade Iraq and the world stood by
> condemning the action. The outside terrorist threats weren't coming
> from Iraq but other countries...
Russian intelligence indicated that Iraq was a threat to the United
States.
quote:
> Bush invaded Iraq because all of his advisors were pretty much his
> daddy's cronies from the gulf war and knew no better... and his father
> was at the height of his popularity while invading Iraq.
Bush invaded Iraq because of intelligence gathered by the CIA, which was
also corroberated by most of the world including, European intelligence.
Iraq was also involved in violating over 10 UN resolutions, violating the
Gulf War cease-fire, and an assassination attempt on a US president. Any
of those along were justification for war.
quote:
>
> Probably less so. With an already established relationship with Canada,
> Gore probably woulnd't have gone on to alienate the US's biggest trade
> partner (I know being from Texas Bush thinks its Mexico... but in
> reality its Canada)
The economy was going down fast and 9-11 along with Gore's likely tax
increases wouldn't have helped.
quote:
>
> If that was the case... then Korea would have looked bad in the eyes of
> the US and the world. Compare that to what happened: Bush did nothing
> and so everybody around the world (including US citizens) starting up
> with the whole "Ah... because Korea has no vast oil reserves we can
> steal..."
Only the ignorant ones.
quote:
> Bush and the US really came out of the whole Korea thing
> looking like stupid bullies... if Gore did what you said above the US
> would have looked good and Korea would have looked like stupid bullies.
North Korea doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks about them.
quote:
>
> Are you under threat of terrorism? Or do you just think you are because
> your president, a one trick pony, tells you that you are? Or do you
> think you are because of the "risk of terror attacks" level was raised
> recently because of 2 year old data?
What will it take for you and the Democrats to take the threat of
terrorism seriously? 9-11 part two? 9-11 part three?
| |
| Thrasher 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:40:41 GMT, everlast <everlast@jmjservices.com>
wrote:
quote:
>I don't see posts from Gactimus. I only see replies to them.
So, responding to people who respond to trolls is better than
responding to trolls?
| |
| Thrasher 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:08:11 -0400, "Grackle" <nospam@lalaland.com>
wrote:
quote:
>Yes, that's the heart of the Bush campaign. Vote for Bush or you will die.
>I'd rather be dead than have to tolerate another 4 years of that dried out
>turd, and I'm not even American!
Easily arranged :D
In fact, you can probably manage it yourself. Do us all a favor -
better you take yourself out clean than walk around with a "shoot me"
shirt on your back. Somebody might actually do it, and somebody you
actually care about might get caught in the collateral damage.
| |
| Tommy Stenberg 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
|
"Thrasher" <spectre911@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:v9h4k05rhkd46qdfouk8hh0c7u8lltkc8v@4ax.com...
quote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:08:11 -0400, "Grackle" <nospam@lalaland.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Easily arranged :D
>
> In fact, you can probably manage it yourself. Do us all a favor -
> better you take yourself out clean than walk around with a "shoot me"
> shirt on your back. Somebody might actually do it, and somebody you
> actually care about might get caught in the collateral damage.
In America? Probably. Elsewhere? Nah...
Tommy
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| |
| Tommy Stenberg 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| One question.
Is the world safer now, three years after 9-11?
Tommy
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| |
| Thrasher 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:22:05 -0700, "Augustus"
<Imperial.Palace@Rome.com> wrote:
quote:
>9/11 might not have happened... Gore might have actually done work as
>President rather than just spend most of his first few months as president
>on vacation. Maybe he would have reacted to reports instead of using them
>as a golf scorecard?
Joke? Bad.
quote:
>Correct: No. But not for the reasons you state... you seem to think that
>the USA actually had grounds to invade Iraq and the world stood by
>condemning the action.
The US *did* have grounds to invade Iraq. Iraq violated the ceasefire
agreement they signed at the end of the Gulf War and defied the UN for
10 years. Grounds don't get any better than that. I'm sorry you don't
like the war. It's not what I would have chosen to do, either. But to
say the US didn't have grounds is absurd.
quote:
>The outside terrorist threats weren't coming from Iraq but other countries...
Which ones? And which ones should we have invaded instead of Iraq?
I'll tell you which countries I think we should have invaded. You tell
me which wars you'd have supported:
Lebanon
Syria
Iran
In that order. Or, maybe:
Iran
Syria
Lebanon
Depending on whether you want to do your war fighting based onb
severity of the threat or ease of victory. I'm sure you'd have
endorsed that, right? I mean, the governments of all three of those
countries have either sponsored terror attacks that killed americans,
or directly committed the attacks, or both.
quote:
>Probably less so. With an already established relationship with Canada,
>Gore probably woulnd't have gone on to alienate the US's biggest trade
>partner (I know being from Texas Bush thinks its Mexico... but in reality
>its Canada)
Oh, so Canada is responsible for the bad economy! Add Canada to my
list.
quote:
>If that was the case... then Korea would have looked bad in the eyes of the
>US and the world.
Er.... I'm sure North Korea would have bowed down before Al Gore so
that they didn't look bad. You are right.
quote:
>Are you under threat of terrorism? Or do you just think you are because
>your president, a one trick pony, tells you that you are? Or do you think
>you are because of the "risk of terror attacks" level was raised recently
>because of 2 year old data?
OK, that last comment was close to reaching the limit of my patience.
This one is too much. Buh-bye.
| |
| Gandalf Parker 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| everlast <everlast@jmjservices.com> wrote in news:vUo0d.6105$_z4.4971
@fe1.columbus.rr.com:
quote:
> Gandalf Parker wrote:
>
> This Gactimus idiot aimed it at people who respond to trolls.
Well none of the newsgroups crossposted seem dead altho I didnt check.
Unless the cross-post includes alt.troll or one of the dead groups they
have taken over, then the trolling is no good for points.
Of course sometimes they will wait until the thread builds then try to
sneak alt.troll into it in order to have it be seen and counted but I
usually catch those and stop responding
Gandalf Parker
| |
|
|
"Augustus" <Imperial.Palace@Rome.com> wrote in message
news:2qeo1cFuf76oU1@uni-berlin.de...
quote:
>
> "Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
> news:1j950zuavvfis.dlg@alaska.local...
>
> 9/11 might not have happened... Gore might have actually done work as
> President rather than just spend most of his first few months as president
> on vacation. Maybe he would have reacted to reports instead of using them
> as a golf scorecard?
Raise your hand if you believed every bit of "Fahrenheit 9/11" without
question. Anyone?
Yes, you there in the pit-stained tee-shirt. Augustus, is it?
Okay, here's what you didn't see in Moore's movie (since he didn't want you
to and you lack the initiative or desire to verify his claims for yourself):
1) Bush did not spend "most of his first few months as president on
vacation." He spent just over 40 percent of his time at locations like his
Texas ranch and Camp David. Before we go any further, we should point out
that that figure includes weekends. Take away the weekend "vacations" and
all of a sudden it's only 13 percent of Bush's time that's spent "on
vacation." Now let's consider the fact that the office basically travels
with Bush and that when he's meeting with people like Tony Blair at Camp
David he's probably not "on vacation." Ditto for all the conference calls,
signing of documents, and briefings that were conducted on a daily basis
while at his ranch. It's a nice liberal lie, and fortunately most liberals
(Moore's target audience) are too stupid to question the numbers he
provides, but it's a far cry from the truth.
2) As for using "reports" as a golf scorecard, if Moore were being honest
(which has happened maybe a total of twice in the last two decades) he'd
point out that the "terrorists" being talked about in the famous "now watch
this drive" clip had attacked ISRAEL, not the US. It was Israel's situation
to respond to, not ours (unless they asked for our help.) And of course
Moore made sure to do a post-production zoom-in to start the scene, making
it appear Bush was conducting a "serious" interview and then instantly
switching to "golfer" mode when in fact he was simply being courteous and
answering a reporter's question about an attack that wasn't against the U.S.
before returning to his game. Neither Bush nor the reporter likely saw any
"absurdity" about the situation, which is why Moore had to massage the video
and leave out the fact that Bush wasn't talking about an attack on the U.S.
He also implied that Bush hadn't read the August report on terrorism and
that the report gave very specific information about the 9/11 attacks. Both
implications are wrong, which is why in typical Moore fashion he didn't come
right out and say it, but left it to his brain-dead supporters to connect
the dots.
quote:
>
> Correct: No. But not for the reasons you state... you seem to think that
> the USA actually had grounds to invade Iraq and the world stood by
> condemning the action. The outside terrorist threats weren't coming from
> Iraq but other countries... Bush invaded Iraq because all of his advisors
> were pretty much his daddy's cronies from the gulf war and knew no
> better...
> and his father was at the height of his popularity while invading Iraq.
Really? When did Bush Senior invade Iraq? I remember a lot of people
(including a lot of Democrats, long after the fact) saying he should, but he
abided by his agreement with our allies and simply booted Saddam out of
Kuwait. If you can provide information about this Iraq invasion undertaken
by Bush Senior, please indulge us...
quote:
>
> Probably less so. With an already established relationship with Canada,
> Gore probably woulnd't have gone on to alienate the US's biggest trade
> partner (I know being from Texas Bush thinks its Mexico... but in reality
> its Canada)
How would Gore have prevented the stock market problems? Bush gave us back
some of our money, an incentive for more consumer spending. Gore would have
just raised taxes again, a tactic that has never improved an economy once in
any society since the dawn of civilization.
quote:
>
> If that was the case... then Korea would have looked bad in the eyes of
> the
> US and the world. Compare that to what happened: Bush did nothing and so
> everybody around the world (including US citizens) starting up with the
> whole "Ah... because Korea has no vast oil reserves we can steal..."
> Bush and the US really came out of the whole Korea thing looking like
> stupid
> bullies... if Gore did what you said above the US would have looked good
> and
> Korea would have looked like stupid bullies.
Yes, and we all know where being a stupid bully got Saddam - Gore and the UN
were happy to allow him to continue to violate terms of the ceasefire and
commit atrocities against his own people. Yes, if there's one thing the UN
and the Democrats can be counted on to go after, it's stupid bullies. Well,
at least theoretically, after the nine billionth iteration of "we really
really mean it this time, Saddam..."
quote:
>
> Are you under threat of terrorism? Or do you just think you are because
> your president, a one trick pony, tells you that you are? Or do you think
> you are because of the "risk of terror attacks" level was raised recently
> because of 2 year old data?
Right. There is no terrorist threat. Al Qaeda never intended a followup to
9/11.
The "threat" is diminished because George W. is in office. If Kerry were to
win, which at this point I can't see happening, then I'd expect an attack or
series of attacks within the first two years of his term, followed by
silence in the runup to the next election so the fickle public will forget
about the threat and re-elect Kerry. Hell, look at how many of the people
who were calling for more security in the wake of 9/11 are now complaining
about it.
I'm just glad the American public isn't as stupid as the liberals believe.
By embracing the leftist propoganda of shit merchants like Michael Moore,
they managed to alienate enough moderates to give Bush a clear advantage.
Thankfully, they probably won't learn from this mistake when 2008 rolls
around.
| |
| Grackle 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| "Tommy Stenberg" <nobodysfool@dont.exist> wrote in message
news:bJr0d.46317$Vf.2390471@news000.worldonline.dk...
quote:
>
> "Thrasher" <spectre911@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:v9h4k05rhkd46qdfouk8hh0c7u8lltkc8v@4ax.com...
out[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> In America? Probably. Elsewhere? Nah...
>
> Tommy
>
>
I'm an english speaking Canadian -- the most dangerous thing about that is
being mistaken for an American.
| |
| Michael Vondung 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| Gactimus wrote:
quote:
> You people are idiots.
You're the one who is trolling and spamming. These are gaming groups, in
case this escaped you. You are just an attention whore, and
unfortunately some people even take you seriously. Anyway, it's
pointless to tell you that. Maybe abuse@cox.net will actually care,
though I doubt it.
| |
| Einstine 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| So how much did the lobotomy cost?
| |
| zmike6 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:20:40 -0400, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
quote:
>1) Would he have reacted differently to 9/11?
>
You mean going into hiding, leaving the VP in charge, forcing the use
of an unconstitutional and improvised chain of command? Can't say for
sure. But I'm pretty sure he would have gone after the Taliban.
quote:
>2) Would Iraq have been invaded?
>
No, Gore would be smart enough to focus on real threats, not costly,
damaging diversions like Iraq.
3. Would the economy have tanked?
Not as badly, because there would not have been the huge financial
drain and economic uncertainty resulting from the war in Iraq. Can you
say "deficit"? I knew you could.
quote:
>
>4) Would North Korea have been dealt with differently?
>
And under Bush, NK has been transformed into a peaceful flower of
democracy?
quote:
>
>5) Would we be under the threat of terrorism if Gore was President?
Yes. Just like we are with Bush.
| |
| everlast 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| Gandalf Parker wrote:
quote:
> Well none of the newsgroups crossposted seem dead altho I didnt check.
> Unless the cross-post includes alt.troll or one of the dead groups they
> have taken over, then the trolling is no good for points.
I trimmed it out of my response. All of Gactimus's original posts are
crossposted to alt.spacebastards.
--
My NWN Work So Far: http://tinyurl.com/6xy2f
"Pits of red smoke and fog are usually bad."
- Tip from Doom3 Manual
| |
| Gandalf Parker 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| everlast <everlast@jmjservices.com> wrote in news:uQB0d.1238$MG3.767
@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
quote:
> Gandalf Parker wrote:
>
> I trimmed it out of my response. All of Gactimus's original posts are
> crossposted to alt.spacebastards.
Ahhh I missed that one. Thank you that is on my list of indicators.
I will try to keep a better eye out.
A friend of mine is working on a newsreader just for fun. I asked him to
include a "kill" list for newsgroups so I can be aware that Im about to
cross into the troll-owned territorys. Dont happen to know of one that does
that do you?
Gandalf Parker
| |
|
| By replying to this idiot's posts, you only encourage it to continue doing
so.
| |
| Jason Costa 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message news:<1j950zuavvfis.dlg@alaska.local>...
quote:
> 1) Would he have reacted differently to 9/11?
Who cares? George W Bush was responsible for what happened on
September 11th. The 9/11 commission report was watered down to not be
devisive in an election year, the person responsible for ignoring the
warnings was never held accountable.
Harry S Truman, "the buck stops here"
George W Bush, "the buck never got here"
quote:
> 2) Would Iraq have been invaded?
There was no need to invade Iraq.
quote:
> 3) Would the economy have tanked?
The economy did tank, so you saying it would have tanked "more" is
just assinine speculation that's insignificant.
quote:
> 4) Would North Korea have been dealt with differently?
What has George done? Nothing.
quote:
> 5) Would we be under the threat of terrorism if Gore was President?
George Bush was president when over 2700 people were murdered, then
he started an unnecessary war that has killed over 1000 US troops and
who knows how many innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan. From my
count, George W Bush has more bodies under his belt than Osama Bin
Laden, making him the bigger terrorist, and a stupid redneck XXX to
boot.
| |
| Gactimus 2004-09-12, 1:00 pm |
| zmike6 <zmike6@*SPAMBLOCK*yahoo.com> wrote in
news:ps75k0p4rd79g7cp0hoc2fdmijapvv1750@4ax.com:
quote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:20:40 -0400, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
>
>
> You mean going into hiding, leaving the VP in charge, forcing the use
> of an unconstitutional and improvised chain of command?
That never happened, you XXXXing moron.
| |
|
|
"Einstine" <hello@goodbye.net> wrote in message
news:KbednVHrsI7EEd_cRVn-tA@comcast.com...
quote:
> So how much did the lobotomy cost?
>
>
Hopefully not too much because it can still type.
| |
|
|
"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:1j950zuavvfis.dlg@alaska.local...
quote:
> 1) Would he have reacted differently to 9/11?
>
> Yes. Like Clinton before him, Gore would have approached 9/11 as a police
> matter, rather than as an act of war. Osama and his cohorts would have
> been
> indicted for murder. There would be no invasion of Afghanistan.
>
> 2) Would Iraq have been invaded?
>
> No. Gore would have left him in power after being pussywhipped by France
> and Germany for threatening their lucrative oil contracts.
>
> 3) Would the economy have tanked?
>
> Even more so. The economy would have already been going down by the time
> Gore would have taken office. You could have expected him to kill any
> recovery by across the board tax increases.
>
> 4) Would North Korea have been dealt with differently?
>
> Gore would have cut another deal with the North Koreans that the North
> Koreans would then violate.
>
> 5) Would we be under the threat of terrorism if Gore was President?
>
> No, because we would all be dead.
Who gives a XXXX about American politics? It's practically two identical
parties who run smear campaigns against each other, and whoever wins, we
(the rest of the world) lose.
| |
| Eric R. 2004-09-13, 5:46 pm |
| Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message news:<1j950zuavvfis.dlg@alaska.local>...
quote:
> 1) Would he have reacted differently to 9/11?
>
> Yes. Like Clinton before him, Gore would have approached 9/11 as a police
> matter, rather than as an act of war. Osama and his cohorts would have been
> indicted for murder. There would be no invasion of Afghanistan.
Bullshit. The only difference would have been that Gore would have
STAYED in Afghanistan after the war instead of diverting all the
troops to go fight in Iraq (and letting good old Osama just walk
away).
quote:
> 2) Would Iraq have been invaded?
>
> No. Gore would have left him in power after being pussywhipped by France
> and Germany for threatening their lucrative oil contracts.
Yes, and concentrated on the people who had ACTUALLY attacked us on
9-11 instead of worrying about kicking back money to his good buddies
at Halliburton.
quote:
> Even more so. The economy would have already been going down by the time
> Gore would have taken office. You could have expected him to kill any
> recovery by across the board tax increases.
Yeah, like Bill Clinton killed the economy during his 8 years. You
remember that 8 years don't you? You should, they were the most
prosperous ones in two decades.
quote:
> 4) Would North Korea have been dealt with differently?
>
> Gore would have cut another deal with the North Koreans that the North
> Koreans would then violate.
You mean just like your boy Bush is doing right now?
quote:
> 5) Would we be under the threat of terrorism if Gore was President?
>
> No, because we would all be dead.
You are truly deluded.
-Eric
| |
| No one 2004-09-13, 5:46 pm |
| Good call.
| |
|
| Gandalf Parker wrote:
quote:
> A friend of mine is working on a newsreader just for fun. I asked him to
> include a "kill" list for newsgroups so I can be aware that Im about to
> cross into the troll-owned territorys. Dont happen to know of one that does
> that do you?
NewsProxy. Not a newsreader, but a filtering program that can be used
with most any newsreader:
http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/software/newsproxy/
stePH
--
"A lion will exert himself to the utmost, even when entering the tiger's
den to throw baby rabbits off a cliff!" -- Moroboshi Ataru
| |
|
| Gandalf Parker wrote:
quote:
> A friend of mine is working on a newsreader just for fun. I asked him to
> include a "kill" list for newsgroups so I can be aware that Im about to
> cross into the troll-owned territorys. Dont happen to know of one that does
> that do you?
Oops, sorry, wrong NewsProxy. I didn't know there was more than one.
Newsproxy/Nfilter:
http://www.netaxs.com/home/h/nfilter/index.html
stePH
--
"A lion will exert himself to the utmost, even when entering the tiger's
den to throw baby rabbits off a cliff!" -- Moroboshi Ataru
| |
| Gactimus 2004-09-13, 5:46 pm |
| elrous0@pop.uky.edu (Eric R.) wrote in
news:7b67c5bc.0409130652.3c47b1c@posting.google.com:
quote:
> Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
> news:<1j950zuavvfis.dlg@alaska.local>...
>
>
> Bullshit. The only difference would have been that Gore would have
> STAYED in Afghanistan after the war instead of diverting all the
> troops to go fight in Iraq (and letting good old Osama just walk
> away).
We never left Afghanistan, you XXXXing moron.
quote:
>
> Yes, and concentrated on the people who had ACTUALLY attacked us on
> 9-11 instead of worrying about kicking back money to his good buddies
> at Halliburton.
And we all know that 9-11 was the only terrorist attack ever.
And why is it that the left never had a problem with Bill Clinton when he
gave Halliburton no-bid contracts?
quote:
>
> Yeah, like Bill Clinton killed the economy during his 8 years. You
> remember that 8 years don't you? You should, they were the most
> prosperous ones in two decades.
Until the stock market and dot com crash of 2000.
quote:
>
> You mean just like your boy Bush is doing right now?
And that deal would be...?
| |
| Fred Liken 2004-09-13, 5:46 pm |
| "everlast" <everlast@jmjservices.com> wrote in message
news:J3q0d.6449$_z4.6333@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
quote:
> Fred Liken wrote:
>
> I don't see posts from Gactimus. I only see replies to them.
>
> Learn how to use a threaded newsreader.
Sigh...
| |
| Gandalf Parker 2004-09-13, 5:46 pm |
| elrous0@pop.uky.edu (Eric R.) wrote in
news:7b67c5bc.0409130652.3c47b1c@posting.google.com:
quote:
>
> You mean just like your boy Bush is doing right now?
>
>
> You are truly deluded.
Now another one to consider...
6) Gore might have used the hurrican striking Cuba as a reason to lift the
american embargo and allow aid to enter the country.
Bush might use it as a sign to remove another one of those terrorist
supporting tyrannical regimes.
Gandalf Parker
| |
| Jordan Lund 2004-09-13, 5:46 pm |
| Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message news:<1j950zuavvfis.dlg@alaska.local>...
First off... "What do you mean 'If'?" :^)
quote:
> 1) Would he have reacted differently to 9/11?
>
> Yes. Like Clinton before him, Gore would have approached 9/11 as a police
> matter, rather than as an act of war. Osama and his cohorts would have been
> indicted for murder. There would be no invasion of Afghanistan.
You have no clue how Clinton handled terrorism, do you? Here's a short
history (pasted from my response to a right-wing nutter e-mail):
quote:
The person behind the 1993 WTC bombing, Ramzi Yousef, was hunted down,
captured and put on trial. He and a co-conspirator were convicted on
four counts on November 12, 1997. He is in jail to this day.
Meanwhile, the mastermind of 9/11, Osama Bin Laden is still on the
loose and George W. Bush says "So I don't know where he is. You know,
I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with
you." (Source: the White House
web page - http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/rele...20020313-8.html)
[vbcol=seagreen]
It turned out that Iranians were responsible for that bombing, what
did Clinton do?
http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/...30/6059788s.htm
"Undisclosed until now, Operation Sapphire took place in 1997. Though
the bombers who struck the Khobar Towers barracks were mostly Saudis,
U.S. investigators quickly determined that Iranian intelligence
officials had trained and organized the plotters. The former U.S.
official said Iran was intimidated enough by the U.S. counterspy
operation that it stopped targeting Americans after the bombing."
[vbcol=seagreen]
As of July 10, 2000 two of the six suspects were in custody and facing
trial, but the mastermind was Osama Bin Laden... Yup, the same guy
that Bush is "not spending much time on."
[vbcol=seagreen]
10 suspects were captured shortly after the bombing and remained in
custody through the end of the Clinton administration. Additional
suspects continue to be captured up until the present day.
What about the Oklahoma City bombing? Surely, even thought that was
domestic terrorism, it must show some flaw of Clintons... actually it
doesn't. Here's how he responeded to the closest thing to 9/11 in his
term:
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/leg06.htm
TO THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES:
Today I am transmitting for your immediate consideration and
enactment the "Antiterrorism Amendments Act of 1995." This
comprehensive Act, together with the "Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of
1995," which I transmitted to the Congress on February 9, 1995, are
critically important components of my Administration's effort to
combat domestic and international terrorism.
The tragic bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City
on April 19th stands as a challenge to all Americans to preserve a
safe society. In the wake of this cowardly attack on innocent men,
women, and children, following other terrorist incidents at home and
abroad over the past several years, we must ensure that law
enforcement authorities have the legal tools and resources they need
to fight terrorism. The Antiterrorism Amendments Act of 1995 will
help us to prevent terrorism through vigorous and effective
investigation and prosecution. Major provisions of this Act would:
* Permit law enforcement agencies to gain access to financial and
credit reports in antiterrorism cases, as is currently permitted with
bank records. This would allow such agencies to track the source and
use of funds by suspected terrorists.
* Apply the same legal standard in national security cases that is
currently used in other criminal cases for obtaining permission to
track telephone traffic with "pen registers" and "trap and trace"
devices.
* Enable law enforcement agencies to utilize the national security
letter process to obtain records critical to terrorism investigations
from hotels, motels, common carriers, storage facilities, and vehicle
rental facilities.
* Expand the authority of law enforcement agencies to conduct
electronic surveillance, within constitutional safeguards. Examples
of this increased authority include additions to the list of felonies
that can be used as the basis for a surveillance order, and
enhancement of law enforcement's ability to keep pace with
telecommunications technology by obtaining multiple point wiretaps
where it is impractical to specify the number of the phone to be
tapped (such as the use of a series of cellular phones).
* Require the Department of the Treasury's Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, and Firearms to study the inclusion of taggants (microscopic
particles) in standard explosive device raw materials to permit
tracing the source of those materials after an explosion; whether
common chemicals used to manufacture explosives can be rendered
inert; and whether controls can be imposed on certain basic chemicals
used to manufacture other explosives.
* Require the inclusion of taggants in standard explosive device raw
materials after the publication of implementing regulations by the
Secretary of the Treasury.
* Enable law enforcement agencies to call on the special expertise
of the Department of Defense in addressing offenses involving
chemical and biological weapons.
* Make mandatory at least a 10-year penalty for transferring
firearms or explosives with knowledge that they will be used to
commit a crime of violence and criminalize the possession of stolen
explosives.
* Impose enhanced penalties for terrorist attacks against current
and former Federal employees, and their families, when the crime is
committed because of the employee's official duties.
* Provide a source of funds for the digital telephony bill, which I
signed into law last year, ensuring court-authorized law enforcement
access to electronic surveillance of digitized communications.
These proposals are described in more detail in the enclosed section-
by-section analysis.
The Administration is prepared to work immediately with the Congress
to enact antiterrorism legislation. My legislation will provide an
effective and comprehensive response to the threat of terrorism,
while also protecting our precious civil liberties. I urge the
prompt and favorable consideration of the Administration's
legislative proposals by the Congress.
WILLIAM J. CLINTON
[vbcol=seagreen]
> 2) Would Iraq have been invaded?
>
> No. Gore would have left him in power after being pussywhipped by France
> and Germany for threatening their lucrative oil contracts.
Since Iraq wasn't engaged in 9/11, had no illegal weapons, had no
connection to Osama Bin Laden and had no way of attacking the United
States then no... we never would have invaded Iraq. There was no need
to.
quote:
> 3) Would the economy have tanked?
>
> Even more so. The economy would have already been going down by the time
> Gore would have taken office. You could have expected him to kill any
> recovery by across the board tax increases.
Gore's economic plan didn't call for tax increases. Bush's
mis-understanding of economics thought it was all "fuzzy math", but in
the end it made more sense than the plans Bush implemented.
quote:
> 4) Would North Korea have been dealt with differently?
>
> Gore would have cut another deal with the North Koreans that the North
> Koreans would then violate.
Beats ignoring them.
quote:
> 5) Would we be under the threat of terrorism if Gore was President?
>
> No, because we would all be dead.
Are you on crack? No terrorist organization is capable of killing
260,000,000 people.
- Jordan
| |
| Jordan Lund 2004-09-13, 5:46 pm |
| Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message news:<Xns9561D92026B94XP@alaska.local>...
quote:
> zmike6 <zmike6@*SPAMBLOCK*yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:ps75k0p4rd79g7cp0hoc2fdmijapvv1750@4ax.com:
>
>
> That never happened, you XXXXing moron.
You have very strong opinions about things that you have no knowledge
of:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...restingday.html
An Interesting Day:
President Bush's Movements and Actions on 9/11
By Allan Wood and Paul Thompson
May 9, 2003
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White
House, 1/5/02]
At approximately 8:48 a.m. on the morning of September 11, 2001, the
first pictures of the burning World Trade Center were broadcast on
live television. The news anchors, reporters, and viewers had little
idea what had happened in lower Manhattan, but there were some people
who did know. By that time, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA),
the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), the National
Military Command Center, the Pentagon, the White House, the Secret
Service, and Canada's Strategic Command all knew that three commercial
airplanes had been hijacked. They knew that one plane had been flown
deliberately into the World Trade Center's North Tower; a second plane
was wildly off course and also heading toward Manhattan; and a third
plane had abruptly turned around over Ohio and was flying back toward
Washington, DC.
So why, at 9:03 a.m. - fifteen minutes after it was clear the United
States was under terrorist attack - did President Bush sit down with a
classroom of second-graders and begin a 20-minute pre-planned photo
op? No one knows the answer to that question. In fact, no one has even
asked Bush about it.
Bush's actions on September 11 have been the subject of lively debate,
mostly on the internet. Details reported that day and in the week
after the attacks - both the media reports and accounts given by Bush
himself - have changed radically over the past 18 months. Culling
hundreds of reports from newspapers, magazines, and the internet has
only made finding the "truth" of what happened and when it happened
more confusing. In the changed political climate after 9/11, few have
dared raise challenging questions about Bush's actions. A journalist
who said Bush was "flying around the country like a scared child,
seeking refuge in his mother's bed after having a nightmare" and
another who said Bush "skedaddled" were fired. [Washington Post,
9/29/01 (B)] We should have a concise record of where President Bush
was throughout the day the US was attacked, but we do not.
What follows is an attempt to give the most complete account of Bush's
actions - from Florida to Louisiana to Nebraska to Washington, DC.
Preparations
Bush's appearance at the Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota,
Florida, on September 11, 2001 had been in the planning stages since
August [Booker web site], but was only publicly announced on the
morning of September 7. [White House, 9/7/01] Later that same day,
9/11 hijackers Mohamed Atta and Marwan Alshehhi traveled to Sarasota
and enjoyed drinks and dinner at a Holiday Inn only two miles down the
sandy beach from where Bush was scheduled to stay during his Sarasota
visit. [Longboat Observer, 11/21/01, Washington Post, 1/27/02]
On the night of September 10th, Bush stayed at the Colony Beach Resort
- "an upscale and relatively pristine tropical island enclave located
directly on the Gulf of Mexico, a spindly coral island ... off
Sarasota, Florida." [AP, 07/29/01] Zainlabdeen Omer, a Sudanese native
living in Sarasota, told the local police that night that someone he
knew who had made violent threats against Bush was in town and Omer
was worried about Bush's safety. The man was identified only as
"Ghandi." A police report states the Secret Service was informed
immediately. [Hopsicker, 7/22/02]
After a private dinner with various Florida politicians (including his
brother Jeb) and Republican donors, Bush went to bed around 10:00 p.m.
[Sarasota Magazine, 11/01, Washington Post, 1/27/02] Surface-to-air
missiles were placed on the roof of the resort [Sarasota
Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02], and an Airborne Warning and Control System
(AWACS) plane circled high overhead. [Fighting Back: The War on
Terrorism - From Inside the Bush White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02,
p. 25] It's not clear if this type of protection was standard for the
president or whether security was increased because of possible
threats.
An Assassination Attempt?
Bush awoke a little before 6:00 a.m. on September 11, pulled on shorts
and an old T-shirt and laced up his running shoes. [CBS, 11/1/02] At
6:30 a.m., Bush, a reporter friend, and his Secret Service crew took a
four-mile jog in the half-light of dawn around a nearby golf course.
[Washington Post, 1/27/02, Washington Post, 09/11/01]
At about the same time Bush was getting ready for his jog, a van
carrying several Middle Eastern men pulled up to the Colony's guard
station. The men said they were a television news crew with a
scheduled "poolside" interview with the president. They asked for a
certain Secret Service agent by name. The message was relayed to a
Secret Service agent inside the resort, who hadn't heard of the agent
mentioned or of plans for an interview. He told the men to contact the
president's public relations office in Washington, DC, and had the van
turned away. [Longboat Observer, 9/26/01]
The Secret Service may have foiled an assassination attempt. Two days
earlier, Ahmed Shah Massoud, leader of Afghanistan's Northern
Alliance, had been murdered by a similar ruse. Two North African men,
posing as journalists from "Arabic News International," had been
requesting an interview with Massoud since late August. Ahmad
Jamsheed, Massoud's secretary, said that by the night of September 8,
"they were so worried and excitable, they were begging us." An
interview was arranged for the following day. As it began, a bomb
hidden in the video camera exploded, killing the two journalists.
Massoud was rushed by helicopter to a hospital in Tajikistan, but was
pronounced dead on arrival (although his death was not acknowledged
until September 15). [International Policy Institute for
Counter-Terrorism, 10/30/01, Newsday, 10/26/01] The assassination is
widely believed to have been timed to remove the Taliban's most
popular and respected opponent in anticipation of the backlash that
would occur after the 9/11 attacks. [BBC, 9/10/01, BBC, 9/10/01 (B),
Time, 8/4/02, St. Petersburg Times, 9/9/02] The Northern Alliance
blamed al-Qaeda and the ISI, Pakistan's secret service, for the
attacks. [Radio Free Europe, 9/10/01, Newsday, 9/15/01, Reuters,
10/4/01]
Nearly three hours after the incident at the Colony, another Longboat
Key resident reported a run-in with possibly the same men. At about
8:50 (when reports of the first World Trade Center crash were first
broadcast), while standing on the Sarasota bay front waiting for the
presidential motorcade to pass by, this man saw two Middle Eastern men
in a dilapidated van "screaming out the windows 'Down with Bush' and
raising their fists in the air." The FBI questioned the man, but it's
not known if this was the same van that had visited the Colony.
[Longboat Observer, 9/26/01]
Later on the morning of September 11, the Secret Service searched a
Sarasota apartment looking for further corroboration of Zainlabdeen
Omer's report of an assassination threat. Three Sudanese men were
questioned for about ten hours. The Secret Service also raided a
beauty supply store in Sarasota, whose owner, identified as "Hakim,"
told the agents that "Ghandi" was a member of the Sudanese People's
Liberation Army, a group fighting against the fundamentalist Muslim
government in Sudan. [Hopsicker, 7/22/02]
Monica Yadav of Sarasota's ABC News 40 reported that a few days after
the Secret Service visit, the beauty supply store was closed up and
Hakim was long gone. Yadav also learned that Zainlabdeen Omer had
suddenly quit his jobs and vacated his apartment. "All I know is he
can't leave town," a friend of Omer's told Yadav. "Omer got in a lot
of trouble with the law." The Special Agent in charge of the
Presidential detail in Sarasota told Yadav that Bush was never in any
danger and the various warnings and possible terrorist connections
were all "just a coincidence." [Hopsicker, 7/22/02] Yet, as we will
see below, there are more details of a threat against Bush before he
left Sarasota.
Bush Is Briefed as the Hijackings Begin
After his jog, Bush showered, then sat down for his daily intelligence
briefing around 8 a.m. "The President's briefing appears to have
included some reference to the heightened terrorist risk reported
throughout the summer, but contained nothing specific, severe or
imminent enough to necessitate a call to [National Security Advisor]
Condoleezza Rice." [Telegraph, 12/16/01]
While Bush was being briefed, the planes that would be hijacked began
taking off. American Airlines Flight 11 was first, leaving Boston's
Logan Airport at 7:59 a.m. The others soon followed, except for United
Flight 93, scheduled to leave at 8:01, but which was delayed on the
runway for about 40 minutes. [Boston Globe, 11/23/01] (For more
information on the four flights, see Flight 11, Flight 175, Flight 77,
Flight 93.)
At approximately 8:13, Flight 11 was instructed by air traffic
controllers at the FAA's Boston Center, in Nashua, New Hampshire, to
climb to 35,000 feet. The plane did not obey the order and its
transponder was turned off. Air traffic control manager Glenn Michael
said, "we considered it at that time to be a possible hijacking." [AP,
8/12/02, emphasis added] According to FAA regulations, that was the
correct decision: "Consider that an aircraft emergency exists ... when
.... there is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications
with any ... aircraft." [FAA Air Traffic Control Regulations, Chapter
10, Section 2-5 ]
If air traffic controllers believed Flight 11 had been hijacked at
8:13, NORAD should have been informed immediately, so military planes
could be scrambled to investigate. However, NORAD and the FAA both
claimed NORAD was not informed until 8:40 - 27 minutes later. [NORAD,
9/18/01, AP, 8/12/02, AP, 8/19/02, Newsday, 9/10/02; one NORAD
employee said it took place at 8:31, ABC News, 9/11/02] Indeed, before
contacting NORAD, Boston air traffic controllers watched Flight 11
make an unexpected 100-degree turn and head south toward New York City
[Christian Science Monitor, 9/13/01], told other controllers of the
hijacking at 8:25 [Guardian, 10/17/01], continued to hear highly
suspicious dialogue from the cockpit (such as, "Nobody move, please,
we are going back to the airport. Don't try to make any stupid moves")
[Guardian, 10/17/01, New York Times, 10/16/01], and even asked the
pilots of Flight 175 to scan the skies for the errant plane.
[Guardian, 10/17/01, Boston Globe, 11/23/01]
Is NORAD's claim credible? If so, the air traffic controllers
(including Mr. Michael) should have been fired and subject to possible
criminal charges for their inaction. To date, however, there has been
no word of any person being disciplined at any institution at any
level for what happened on 9/11.
If NORAD's claim is false, and it was indeed informed within the time
frame outlined in FAA regulations that Flight 11 may have been
hijacked, that would mean NORAD did absolutely nothing for almost
thirty minutes while a hijacked commercial airliner flew off course
through some of the most congested airspace in the world. Presumably,
that would warrant some very serious charges. Again, no one associated
with NORAD or the FAA has been punished.
According to phone calls made by fight attendants Betty Ong and Amy
Sweeney, the hijackers had stabbed and killed at least one passenger
and two flight attendants by about 8:21. [ABC News, 7/18/02, Boston
Globe, 11/23/01, AP, 10/5/01, Los Angeles Times, 9/20/01] (One
hijacker may have been riding in the cockpit and begun the hijacking
earlier.) After 8:21, both women apparently remained on the phone with
American Airlines' headquarters for 25 minutes, until their plane
crashed into the World Trade Center's North Tower. [ABC News, 7/18/02,
AP, 10/5/01] These calls make NORAD's supposed ignorance of a crisis
even more dubious.
Bush Leaves for Booker Elementary
Around the same time the Flight 11 hijackers were stabbing passenger
Daniel Lewin - at 8:20 a.m. - Bush's briefing ended and he said
good-bye to the Colony's general manager. [Telegraph, 12/16/01,
Sarasota Magazine, 11/01] The first event on Bush's schedule was what
is known as a "soft event" – a photo-op with children at Emma Booker
Elementary School - promoting his proposed education bill. [Sarasota
Herald-Tribune, 9/11/01] After spending about 20 minutes with the
children, Bush was scheduled to give a short press conference at about
9:30. [White House, 9/7/01, Federal News Service, 9/10/01]
Accounts of when Bush's motorcade left for the school vary from 8:30
to 8:39. [8:30, Washington Post, 1/27/02, 8:35, Sarasota Magazine,
9/19/01, 8:39, Washington Times, 10/7/02] One account has the Bush
party leave the Colony suite at 8:30 and drive away at 8:39. Whenever
he left, the motorcade traveled quickly: "The police shut down traffic
in both directions, leaving roads utterly deserted for Bush's long
motorcade, which barreled along at 40 mph, running red lights with
impunity." [Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism - From Inside the Bush
White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02, pp. 37-38] At 40 mph, it would
take about 14 minutes to travel the nine-mile distance to the school.
Several accounts say the journey took about 20 minutes [New York
Times, 9/16/01 (B), St. Petersburg Times, 9/8/02 (B), MSNBC,
10/29/02], which means that Bush arrived shortly before 9:00. [8:46,
ABC News, 9/11/02, 8:55, Washington Times, 10/7/02, 8:55, Sarasota
Magazine, 9/19/01, "just before 9:00," Telegraph, 12/16/01, "shortly
before 9:00," Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02, "just before 9:00,"
New York Times, 9/16/01 (B), 9:00, Albuquerque Tribune, 9/10/02]
When Did Bush First Learn of the Attacks?
Why does it matter when Bush left the resort and arrived at the
school? Because this is the crucial time when Bush was first told, or
should have been told, of the attacks. Official accounts, including
the words of Bush himself, say Bush was first told of what was
happening in New York City after he arrived at the school. [Telegraph,
12/16/01, CBS, 9/11/02] However, this statement does not stand up to
scrutiny. There are at least four reports that Bush was told of the
first crash before he arrived at the school.
Two accounts explicitly state Bush was told while in the motorcade.
"The President was on Highway 301, just north of Main Street ...
[when] he received the news that a plane had crashed in New York
City." [Sarasota Magazine, 11/01] (See adjacent map for the location
where he is told.) Another account states, "Bush was driving to the
school in a motorcade when the phone rang. An airline accident
appeared to have happened. He pressed on with his visit." [Observer,
9/16/01]
The first media reports of Flight 11's crash into the World Trade
Center began around 8:48, two minutes after the crash happened. [New
York Times, 9/15/01] CNN broke into its regular programming at that
time [CNN, 9/11/01], though other networks, such as ABC, took a few
more minutes to begin reporting. [ABC, 9/14/02] So within minutes,
millions were aware of the story, yet Bush supposedly remained unaware
for about another ten minutes.
Claims of Bush's ignorance become harder to believe when one learns
that others in his motorcade were immediately told of the attack. For
instance, Kia Baskerville, a CBS News producer traveling with Bush
that morning, received a message about a plane crash "as the
presidential motorcade headed to President Bush's first event."
Baskerville said, "Fifteen minutes later I was standing in a second
grade classroom [waiting for Bush's entrance]" - which means she got
the news at about 8:47 - right as the story was first being reported.
[CBS, 8/19/02] A news photographer in the motorcade overheard a radio
transmission that Press Secretary Ari Fleischer would be needed on
arrival at the school to discuss reports of some sort of crash.
[Christian Science Monitor, 9/17/01] Another account notes Fleischer
got the news that the crash had occurred "just minutes before," but
notes that Bush was not in the same car as Fleischer. [CBS, 11/1/02]
Senior presidential communications officer Thomas Herman said, "Just
as we were arriving at the school, I received a notification from our
operations center than [sic] an airliner had struck one of the
towers...." [Marist college Magazine, Fall 2002]
Meanwhile, CIA Director George Tenet was told of the crash a few
minutes after it happened. A messenger gave him the news as he was
eating breakfast with former Senator David Boren in a Washington
restaurant three blocks from the White House. Boren says Tenet was
told that the World Trade Center had been attacked by an airplane: "I
was struck by the fact that [the messenger] used the word attacked."
An aide then handed a cell phone to Tenet, and Tenet made some calls,
showing that at least some at the highest levels of the Bush
administration were talking about an attack at this time. Tenet then
said to Boren, "You know, this has bin Laden's fingerprints all over
it." [ABC, 9/14/02]
Some people at the school also heard of the news before Bush arrived.
Around 8:50, Tampa Bay's Channel 8 reporter Jackie Barron was on the
phone with her mother, who mentioned the first news reports. At almost
the same time, Brian Goff, a Fox reporter from Tampa, heard the same
thing on his cell phone. [Sarasota Magazine, 11/01] Associated Press
reporter Sonia Ross was also told of the crash by phone from a
colleague. [AP, 9/12/01 (D)] Florida Congressman Dan Miller, waiting
in front of the school as part of the official greeting party, was
told by an aide about the crash at 8:55, before Bush arrived.
[Sarasota Magazine, 11/01]
Given all this, how could Bush have remained ignorant? Could he have
been out of the loop because he was in a car? No. The previous night,
Colony Resort manager Katie Klauber Moulon toured the presidential
limousine and marveled "at all the phones and electronic equipment."
[Sarasota Magazine, 11/01] Karl Rove, Bush's "chief political
strategist," who presumably was riding with Bush, used a wireless
e-mail device on 9/11 as well. [Newsweek, 10/14/02] There seems to
have been ample opportunity and the means to alert Bush.
Another Warning
If Bush wasn't told while in his limousine, he certainly was told
immediately after he got out of it. US Navy Captain Deborah Loewer,
the director of the White House Situation Room, was traveling in the
motorcade when she received a message from an assistant back in
Washington about the first crash. Loewer said that as soon as the car
arrived at Booker, she ran quickly over to Bush. "It's a very good
thing the Secret Service knows who I am," Loewer later said. She told
Bush that an aircraft had "impacted the World Trade Center. This is
all we know." [Catholic Telegraph, 12/7/01, AP, 11/26/01]
Meanwhile, More Hijackings
Even though Flight 175 left about the same time as Flight 11, it
appears to have been hijacked much later. At 8:41, its pilot was still
talking to ground control [New York Times, 10/16/01], but at 8:42 it
sharply veered off course, and a flight controller noted that its
transponder had been turned off and communication cut. [Boston Globe,
11/23/01, New York Times, 10/16/01] One minute later, at 8:43, NORAD
was notified the plane had been hijacked. [NORAD, 9/18/01] The
hijackers turned the transponder back on but used a different signal
code. This allowed flight controllers to "easily" track the plane as
it flew toward New York City. [Washington Post, 9/17/01] At about
8:46, Flight 77 began to go severely off course. According to
regulations, a fighter is required to be dispatched if a plane strays
from its official course by more than two miles or 15 degrees [MSNBC,
9/12/01]. As the adjacent map shows, Flight 77 returned to its proper
course for a time, but its last radio contact occurred at 8:50.
[Guardian, 10/17/01] Supposedly, NORAD was not officially notified
that Flight 77 has been hijacked until 9:24 [NORAD, 9/18/01], but the
New York Times reported that by around 8:50, military officials at the
Pentagon were already discussing what to do about Flight 77. [New York
Times, 9/15/01] Note the difference in notification times: 27 minutes
for Flight 11, 1 minute for Flight 175 and 38 minutes for Flight 77.
Flight 93 wasn't hijacked until about 9:16, but by about 8:50, it was
clear that at least three planes had been hijacked. Vice President
Dick Cheney, speaking on NBC's Meet the Press, said, "The Secret
Service has an arrangement with the FAA. They had open lines after the
World Trade Center was ..." [Meet the Press, 9/16/01] Cheney never
finished his sentence (interesting in itself - did he say too much?),
but it seems safe to say that his next word would have been "hit."
Cheney's statement makes it clear the Secret Service knew the extent
of the situation well before 9:00 am.
An Accident?
Intelligence agencies were suffering "warning fatigue" from so many
warnings of an al-Qaeda attack [Independent, 9/7/02], some
specifically mentioning the use of hijacked airplanes as missiles (see
this essay). Bush himself was given an intelligence briefing a month
earlier entitled "Bin Laden to Strike in US," and it contained a
warning from the British government that the US should expect multiple
airline hijackings from al-Qaeda. [Sunday Herald, 5/19/02] So with the
clear knowledge that three planes had been hijacked, with one of them
already crashed into the World Trade Center, who would have possibly
assumed that Flight 11's crash was an accident? Yet that is precisely
what the official story claims. There are a number of different
"official" accounts, but all of them stress that Bush wasn't told
until after he arrived inside the school (contrary to the account of
Captain Loewer) and that it was assumed to be an accident
(contradicting Tenet being told that it was an attack).
In some accounts, "President Bush had emerged from his car and was
shaking hands with local officials standing outside the school when
Chief of Staff Andrew Card sidled up to him with the news." [CBS,
11/1/02] Bush later recalled that it was Card who first notified him:
"'Here's what you're going to be doing; you're going to meet
so-and-so, such-and-such.' Then Andy Card said, 'By the way, an
aircraft flew into the World Trade Center.'" [Washington Times,
10/7/02] At a press conference later that day, Press Secretary Ari
Fleischer also claimed it was Andy Card who first informed him, "as
the President finished shaking hands in a hallway of school
officials." [Knoxville News Sentinel, 9/11/01]
In other accounts, it was advisor Karl Rove who first told Bush.
According to photographer Eric Draper, who was standing nearby, Rove
rushed up, took Bush aside in a corridor inside the school and said
the cause of the crash was unclear. Bush replied, "What a horrible
accident!" Bush also suggested the pilot may have had a heart attack.
[Daily Mail, 9/8/02] Dan Bartlett, White House Communications
Director, says he was there when Bush was told: "[Bush] being a former
pilot, had kind of the same reaction, going, was it bad weather? And I
said no, apparently not." [ABC News, 9/11/02] A reporter who was
standing nearby later said, "From the demeanor of the President,
grinning at the children, it appeared that the enormity of what he had
been told was taking a while to sink in." [Daily Mail, 9/8/02] One
account explicitly says that Rove told Bush the World Trade Center had
been hit by a large commercial airliner. [Telegraph, 12/16/01]
However, Bush later remembered Rove saying it appeared to be an
accident involving a small, twin-engine plane. [Washington Post,
1/27/02, MSNBC, 9/02]
In yet another account, Blake Gottesman, Bush's personal assistant,
while giving the president some final instructions as they walked to
the school, remarked, "Andy Card says, 'By the way, an aircraft flew
into the World Trade Center.'" [Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism -
From Inside the Bush White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02, pp. 41-42]
Told Again, Yet Still Clueless
Booker principal Gwen Tose-Rigell was waiting for Bush outside the
school. "The limousine stops and the president comes out. He walks
toward me. I'm standing there in a lineup; there are about five
people. He walks over and says he has to make a phone call, and he'll
be right back." [MSNBC, 09/02, Telegraph, 12/16/01] The phone call was
with National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. From a room with
secure communications, Rice updated Bush on the situation. [Christian
Science Monitor, 9/17/01, Time, 9/12/01] The fact that Bush
immediately said he had to make an important call strongly suggests he
was told about the situation while in the motorcade. But some accounts
have Andrew Card saying to Bush as he gets out of his limousine, "Mr.
President, you really need to take this phone call," thereby implying
that Card knows what's going on, but Bush doesn't. [St. Petersburg
Times, 9/8/02 (B)]
As National Security Advisor, Rice had to have had as much information
as anyone. By the time she spoke to Bush, she must have known that
three planes had been hijacked and that the country was under attack.
We know very little about the conversation - only that Rice later
claimed, "[Bush] said, what a terrible, it sounds like a terrible
accident. Keep me informed." [ABC News, 9/11/02] One reporter noted:
"Bush did not appear preoccupied [after the phone call] … There was no
sign that Rice had just told [him] about the first attack [on the
World Trade Center]." [Cox News, 9/12/01 (B)] Tose-Rigell was then
summoned to a room to talk with Bush: "He said a commercial plane has
hit the World Trade Center, and we're going to go ahead and go on,
we're going on to do the reading thing anyway." [AP, 8/19/02 (D)]
One local reporter notes that at this point, "He could and arguably
should have left Emma E. Booker Elementary School immediately, gotten
onto Air Force One and left Sarasota without a moment's delay ... But
he didn't." [Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/12/01 (B)] The only possible
excuse is that Bush was completely clueless as to what was happening.
Sure enough, at a press conference on the evening of 9/11, Press
Secretary Ari Fleischer was asked by a reporter, "And then this
morning, when Andy Card told him about the first accident, was Andy
Card or Condi Rice or any of those aware of the hijackings? What did
they know when they --" Fleischer cut in and replied, "No, at that
point they were not." [Knoxville News Sentinel, 9/11/01] So
supposedly, 15 minutes after the first crash, none of Bush's aides,
not even Rice back in Washington, DC, knew a thing about the
hijackings that had been reported to NORAD 20 minutes earlier? This
simply is not plausible.
Bush's Confused Recollection
Bush's own recollection of the first crash only complicates the
picture. Less than two months after the attacks, Bush made the
preposterous claim that he had watched the first attack as it happened
on live television. This is the seventh different account of how Bush
learned about the first crash (in his limousine, from Loewer, from
Card, from Rove, from Gottesman, from Rice, from television). On
December 4, 2001, Bush was asked: "How did you feel when you heard
about the terrorist attack?" Bush replied, "I was sitting outside the
classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower - the
TV was obviously on. And I used to fly, myself, and I said, well,
there's one terrible pilot. I said, it must have been a horrible
accident. But I was whisked off there, I didn't have much time to
think about it." [White House, 12/4/01]
There was no film footage of the first attack until at least the
following day, and Bush didn't have access to a television until 15 or
so minutes later. [Washington Times, 10/7/02] The Boston Herald later
noted, "Think about that. Bush's remark implies he saw the first plane
hit the tower. But we all know that video of the first plane hitting
did not surface until the next day. Could Bush have meant he saw the
second plane hit - which many Americans witnessed? No, because he said
that he was in the classroom when Card whispered in his ear that a
second plane hit." [Boston Herald, 10/22/02] Bush's recollection has
many precise details. Is he simply confused? It's doubly strange why
his advisors didn't correct him or - at the very least - stop him from
repeating the same story only four weeks later. [White House, 1/5/02,
CBS, 9/11/02] On January 5, 2002, Bush stated: "Well, I was sitting in
a schoolhouse in Florida ... and my Chief of Staff – well, first of
all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into
the first building. There was a TV set on. And you know, I thought it
was pilot error and I was amazed that anybody could make such a
terrible mistake. And something was wrong with the plane..." [White
House, 1/5/02]
Unfortunately, Bush has never been asked - not even once - to explain
these statements. His memory not only contradicts every single media
report, it also contradicts what he said that evening. In his speech
to the nation that evening, Bush said: "Immediately following the
first attack, I implemented our government's emergency response
plans." [White House, 9/11/01] It's not known what these emergency
plans were, because neither Bush nor anyone in his administration
mentioned this immediate response again. Implementing "emergency
response plans" seems to completely contradict Bush's "by the way"
recollection of a small airplane accident.
Inside the Classroom and the Second Plane Crash
Shortly after his call with National Security Advisor Rice, Bush
entered Sandra Kay Daniels's second-grade class for a photo-op to
promote Bush's education policies. [Daily Mail, 9/8/02] The event was
to begin precisely at 9:00, but the call pushed it back to about 9:03.
[Washington Times, 10/8/02, Telegraph, 12/16/01, Daily Mail, 9/8/02]
Numerous reporters who were traveling with the president, as well as
members of the local media, watched from the back of the room. [AP,
8/19/02 (D)] Altogether there were about 150 people in the room, only
16 of them students. Bush was introduced to the children and then
posed for a number of pictures. Daniels then led the students through
some reading exercises (video footage shows this lasted about three
minutes). [Salon, 9/12/01 (B)] Bush later related what he was thinking
at the time: "I was concentrating on the program at this point,
thinking about what I was going to say [about the plane crash].
Obviously, I felt it was an accident. I was concerned about it, but
there were no alarm bells." [Washington Times, 10/7/02]
At 9:03, Flight 175 crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade
Center. News of this traveled extremely rapidly. In fact, some of
Bush's Secret Service agents watched the second crash live on
television in an adjacent room. [Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02]
Press Secretary Ari Fleischer, in the same room as Bush but not near
him, immediately received the news on his pager. [CBS, 9/11/02] Other
pagers were going off as well.
Chief of Staff Andrew Card was in a nearby room when he heard the
news. He waited until there was a pause in the reading drill to walk
in and tell Bush. [Washington Times, 10/7/02, Washington Times,
10/8/02] The children were getting their books from under their seats
to read a story together when Card came in. [Daily Mail, 9/8/02] Card
whispered to Bush: "A second plane hit the second tower. America is
under attack." [San Francisco Chronicle, 9/11/02] Another account has
Card saying: "A second plane has hit the World Trade Center. America
is under attack." [Telegraph, 12/16/01] Accounts vary as to when Card
gave Bush the news. Some say 9:05 [Salon 9/11/01, New York Times,
9/16/01 (B), Telegraph, 12/16/01, Albuquerque Tribune, 9/10/02], and
some say 9:07. [Washington Post, 9/11/01, Washington Times, 10/8/02]
ABC News reporter Ann Compton, who was in the room, said she was
surprised by the interruption and "wrote [the time] down in my
reporter's notebook, by my watch, 9:07 a.m." [ABC News, 9/11/02]
The Reaction - Or Lack of One
Descriptions vary greatly as to how Bush responded to the news. It is
said he "blanched" [Richmond Times-Dispatch, 10/1/02], "the color
drained from the president's face" [AP, 9/12/01 (D)], he "wore a
bemused smile" [Orlando Sentinel, 9/12/01], "because visibly tense and
serious" [Time, 9/12/01], and so on. Watch the video and draw your own
conclusions (the 11-minute video can be viewed at the Center for
Cooperative Research, Buzzflash, Global Free Press, The Emperor's New
Clothes, or Liberty DYNU). Bush later recalled his own reaction: "I am
very aware of the cameras. I'm trying to absorb that knowledge. I have
nobody to talk to. I'm sitting in the midst of a classroom with little
kids, listening to a children's story and I realize I'm the Commander
in Chief and the country has just come under attack." [Telegraph,
12/16/01, CBS, 11/1/02] Asked again what he thought after he heard the
news, Bush said, "We're at war and somebody has dared attack us and
we're going to do something about it. I realized I was in a unique
setting to receive a message that somebody attacked us … [I]t became
evident that we were, you know, that the world had changed." [CBS,
9/11/02]
So what did the Commander in Chief do with the knowledge that the
United States was under attack?
He did nothing.
Bush did not say one word. He did not ask Card any questions. He did
not give any orders. He did not know who (or which country) was
attacking, whether there would be more attacks, what military plans
had been taken, what military actions should be taken - indeed, he
knew virtually nothing about what was going on outside the room. He
just sat there. Bush later recalled: "There was no time for discussion
or anything." [Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism - From Inside the
Bush White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02, pp. 83-84] Even stranger, as
one newspaper put it, although the nation was under terrorist attack,
"for some reason, Secret Service agents [did] not bustle him away."
[Globe and Mail, 9/12/01]
Military pilots must have "permission from the White House because
only the president has the authority to order a civilian aircraft shot
down." [CNN, 10/26/99] But if retaliatory strikes needed to the
authorized, Bush was not available. If one of the planes had to be
shot down to save more lives on the ground, Bush was not available.
Although several fighters had been dispatched to defend New York City,
the pilot of one of the planes flying to catch Flight 175 later noted
that it wouldn't have mattered if he caught up with it, because only
Bush could order a shootdown, and Bush could not be reached in the
classroom. [Cape Cod Times, 8/21/02]
Secret Service agents and other security personnel had set up a
television in a nearby classroom. They turned on the TV just as Flight
175 crashed into the World Trade Center. According to Sarasota County
Sheriff Bill Balkwill, who was in the room, a Marine responsible for
carrying Bush's phone immediately said to Balkwill, "We're out of
here. Can you get everyone ready?" [Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02]
But he must have been overruled by someone, because Bush did not
leave.
Meanwhile, Secret Service agents burst into Vice President Cheney's
White House office. They carried him under his arms - nearly lifting
him off the ground - and propelled him down the steps into the White
House basement and through a long tunnel toward an underground bunker.
Accounts of when this happened vary greatly, from 9:06 [New York
Times, 9/16/01 (B), Telegraph, 12/16/01] to after 9:30. [CBS, 9/11/02,
Washington Post, 1/27/02] Cheney's own account is vague and
contradictory. [Meet the Press, 9/16/01] The one eyewitness account,
by White House photographer David Bohrer, said it happened just after
9:00. [ABC, 9/14/02 (B)] It's easy to see why the White House would
have wanted this event placed at a later time (after Bush's initial
statement to the nation rather than after the second crash) to avoid
the obvious question: if Cheney was immediately evacuated, why wasn't
Bush?
The Photo-Op Goes On
After Card told Bush about the second plane and quickly left, the
classroom was silent for about 30 seconds or so. [Tampa Tribune,
9/1/02] The children were about to take turns reading from a story
called The Pet Goat. [AFP, 9/7/02] Bush picked up the book and began
to read with the children. [Tampa Tribune, 9/1/02] In unison, the
children read out loud, "The - Pet - Goat. A - girl - got - a - pet -
goat. But - the - goat - did - some - things - that - made - the -
girl's - dad - mad." Bush mostly listened, but occasionally asked the
children a few questions to encourage them. [Washington Times,
10/7/02] At one point he said, "Really good readers, whew! ... These
must be sixth-graders!" [Time, 9/12/01]
Who was really in control? Certainly not Bush. In the back of the
room, Press Secretary Ari Fleischer caught Bush's eye and held up a
pad of paper for him to see, with "DON'T SAY ANYTHING YET" written on
it in big block letters. [Washington Times, 10/7/02] Some person or
people had overruled the security who wanted Bush evacuated
immediately, even as Vice President Cheney was taken from his White
House office to a safe location. Bush's security overruled Bush on
security matters later in the day on Air Force One, but who overruled
them that morning?
When Did Bush Leave the Classroom?
Nearly every news account fails to mention when Bush left the
classroom after being told America was under attack. Three mention
9:12 a.m. [New York Times, 9/16/01 (B), Telegraph, 12/16/01, Daily
Mail, 9/8/02] Remaining in the classroom for approximately five to
seven minutes is inexcusable, but the video of Bush in the classroom
suggests he stayed longer than that. The video contains several edits
and ends before Bush leaves the room, so it also doesn't tell us
exactly how long he stayed. One newspaper suggested he remained "for
eight or nine minutes" - sometime between 9:13 and 9:16, since Card's
arrival is uncertain. [Tampa Tribune, 9/1/02]
When Bush finally did leave, he didn't act like a man in a hurry. In
fact, he was described as "openly stretching out the moment."
[Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism - From Inside the Bush White
House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02, p. 89] When the lesson was over, Bush
said to the children: "Hoo! These are great readers. Very impressive!
Thank you all so much for showing me your reading skills. I bet they
practice too. Don't you? Reading more than they watch TV? Anybody do
that? Read more than you watch TV? [Hands go up] Oh that's great! Very
good. Very important to practice! Thanks for having me. Very
impressed." [Transcribed from Booker video, Fighting Back: The War on
Terrorism - From Inside the Bush White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02,
pp. 89-90] Bush still continued to talk, advising the children to stay
in school and be good citizens. [Tampa Tribune, 9/1/02, St. Petersburg
Times, 9/8/02 (B)] One student asked Bush a question, and he gave a
quick response on his education policy. [New York Post, 9/12/02]
The only source to describe what happened next is Fighting Back by
Bill Sammon. Publishers Weekly described Sammon's book as an "inside
account of the Bush administration's reaction to 9-11 [and] a
breathless, highly complimentary portrait of the president [showing]
the great merit and unwavering moral vision of his inner circle."
[Publisher's Weekly, 10/15/02] Sammon's conservative perspective makes
his account of Bush's behavior at the end of the photo-op all the more
surprising. Bush is described as smiling and chatting with the
children "as if he didn't have a care in the world" and "in the most
relaxed manner imaginable." White House aide Gordon Johndroe, then
came in as he usually does at the end of press conferences, and said,
"Thank you, press. If you could step out the door we came in, please."
A reporter then asked, "Mr. President, are you aware of the reports of
the plane crash in New York? Is there anything...", But Bush
interrupted, and no doubt recalling his order, "DON'T SAY ANYTHING
YET," Bush responded, "I'll talk about it later." But still the
president did not leave. "He stepped forward and shook hands with
[classroom teacher] Daniels, slipping his left hand behind her in
another photo-op pose. He was taking his good old time. ... Bush
lingered until the press was gone." [Fighting Back: The War on
Terrorism - From Inside the Bush White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02,
p. 90]
Think about that: rather than rush out of the room at the first
chance, Bush actually stayed until after all the dozens of reporters
had left! Having just been told of a Pearl Harbor-type attack on US
soil, Bush was indeed "openly stretching out the moment." But he still
wasn't done. Bush then turned to principal Tose-Rigell, who was
waiting to take him to the library for his speech on education. He
explained to her about the terror attacks and why he had to leave.
[Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism - From Inside the Bush White
House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02, p. 90] Finally, he went to an empty
classroom next door where his staff was based. [ABC News, 9/11/02]
Given that Bush's program was supposed to end at 9:20, he left the
classroom only a couple of minutes earlier than planned, if even that.
[Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/16/01]
Why Stay?
The reason given why Bush didn't leave as soon as Card told him the
news is: "Without all the facts at hand, George Bush had no intention
of upsetting the schoolchildren who had come to read for him." [MSNBC,
10/29/02] Advisor Karl Rove said, "The President thought for a second
or two about getting up and walking out of the room. But the drill was
coming to a close and he didn't want to alarm the children." [ABC,
9/11/02] This excuse is patently absurd, given the security risks and
importance of Bush being informed and making decisions as Commander in
Chief. Nor was the drill coming to a close: one drill had ended and
another was about to begin - it was a perfect time to simply say,
"Excuse me" and leave the room. Sarasota-Bradenton International
Airport is only 3½ miles away; in fact, Booker was chosen as the
location for the photo-op partly because of its proximity to the
airport. [Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/12/02] Hijackers could have
crashed a plane into Bush's publicized location and his security would
have been completely helpless to stop it. Remember, Bush's schedule
had been announced on September 7 and two of the 9/11 hijackers came
to Sarasota that same day. [White House, 9/7/01, Longboat Observer,
11/21/01, Washington Post, 1/27/02] Furthermore, the Secret Service
was aware of the strange request for an interview a few hours earlier
and the previous night's report of a person in town who had made
violent threats against Bush.
Indeed, a few days after 9/11, Sarasota's main newspaper reported,
"Sarasota barely skirted its own disaster. As it turns out, terrorists
targeted the president and Air Force One on Tuesday, maybe even while
they were on the ground in Sarasota and certainly not long after. The
Secret Service learned of the threat just minutes after Bush left
Booker Elementary." [Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/16/01]
Bush Lingers On
Once he was out of the classroom, did Bush immediately leave Booker?
No. He stayed in the adjacent room with his staff, calling Vice
President Cheney and National Security Advisor Rice, and preparing a
speech. [Telegraph, 12/16/01, St. Petersburg Times 9/8/02] Incredibly,
even as uncertain information began to surface, suggesting that more
planes had been hijacked (eventually 11 planes would be suspected)
[CBS, 9/11/02], Bush was allowed to make his remarks at 9:30 - exactly
the time and place stated on his advance schedule. [Federal News
Service, 9/10/01, see the transcript of his speech here] Why hasn't
Bush's security staff been criticized for their completely
inexplicable decision to stay at the school? And why didn't Bush's
concern for the children extend to not making them and the rest of the
200 or so people at the school terrorist targets?
At 9:16, NORAD was notified that Flight 93 had been hijacked, and at
9:24 it was notified that Flight 77 had also been hijacked and was
heading toward Washington (though, as discussed above, the hijacking
was known long before this). [NORAD, 9/18/01] No media report has
suggested that the possible shooting down of hijacked airplanes was
discussed at this time, however. It appears the discussion was not
broached until after 9:55. [Washington Post, 1/27/02, CBS, 9/11/02] At
about 9:26, it was either FAA head Jane Garvey or FAA administrator
Ben Sliney (and not Bush) who decided to halt all airplane takeoffs in
the US. [Time, 9/14/01, USA Today, 8/13/02] Additionally, no evidence
has appeared suggesting Bush had a role in ordering any fighters into
the skies.
Finally, to the Airport
By 9:35, Bush's motorcade was ready to take him to the Sarasota
airport where Air Force One was waiting. [Telegraph, 12/16/01] At
9:37, Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon. Bush was informed as his
motorcade got near the airport. (Apparently Bush could be reached by
phone in his limousine at this time.) [Washington Times, 10/8/02,
Telegraph, 12/16/01] The motorcade arrived around 9:43 and pulled up
close to Air Force One. Security conducted an extra-thorough search of
all the baggage for the other passengers, delaying takeoff until 9:55.
[St. Petersburg Times, 9/8/02 (B)]
A year later, Chief of Staff Andrew Card recalled that, "As we were
heading to Air Force One... [we] learned, what turned out to be a
mistake, but we learned that the Air Force One package could in fact
be a target." [MSNBC, 9/9/02] This echoes the report mentioned above
that "terrorists targeted the president and Air Force One... maybe
even while they were on the ground in Sarasota ..." [Sarasota
Herald-Tribune, 9/16/01] This only increases the strangeness that Bush
wasn't immediately evacuated at 9:03 as some of his security had
recommended.
Bush spoke by telephone to Cheney as the motorcade raced to the
airport. [St. Petersburg Times 9/8/02] Supposedly, during this call
Bush issued an order to ground all flights within the country.
[Sarasota Magazine, 11/01] The FAA did shut down the nationwide air
traffic system at around 9:45. [MSNBC, 9/22/01, CNN, 9/12/01, New York
Times, 9/12/01, Newsday, 9/10/02, Washington Post, 9/12/01] But other
reports state that it was FAA administrator Ben Sliney who made the
decision without consulting anyone. [USA Today, 8/13/02, USA Today,
8/13/02 (B)] For some time it was claimed that Transportation
Secretary Norman Mineta had made the decision, but it was later
revealed that Mineta didn't even know of the order until 15 minutes
later. Apparently, "FAA officials had begged [the reporter] to
maintain the fiction." [Slate, 4/2/02] The idea that Bush made the
decision is even less plausible. In fact, there is no evidence at all
to suggest that Bush had by this point made even one decision relevant
to his security or that of the country.
Air Force One Takes Off Without Fighter Escort
Air Force One took off at either 9:55 or 9:57 a.m. [CNN, 9/12/01, New
York Times, 9/12/01, Telegraph, 12/16/01, CBS, 9/11/02, Washington
Post, 9/12/01, Washington Post, 1/27/02, AP, 9/12/01] Communications
Director Dan Bartlett remembered, "It was like a rocket. For a good
ten minutes, the plane was going almost straight up." [CBS, 9/11/02]
But, incredibly, Air Force One took off without any military fighter
protection. This defies all explanation. Recall that at 9:03 a.m., one
of Bush's security people said, "We're out of here. Can you get
everyone ready?" [Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02] Certainly, long
before Bush left the elementary school at 9:35 a.m., arrangements
would have been made to get fighters to Sarasota as soon as possible.
Not only would it have been advisable to protect Air Force One, but it
would have been only sensible as another way to protect Bush on the
ground from terrorist attack even before he left the school. In
Florida, there were two bases said to have fighters on 24-hour alert,
capable of getting airborne in approximately five minutes. Homestead
Air Station, 185 miles from Sarasota, and Tyndall Air Station, 235
miles from Sarasota; both had the highest readiness status on 9/11.
Presumably, as happened at other bases across the country, just after
9:03, base commanders throughout Florida would have immediately begun
preparations to get their fighters ready. [Aviation Week and Space
Technology, 6/3/02] Fighters left bases on the same alert status and
traveled similar distances to reach Washington, DC, well before 10:00,
so why were the fighters delayed in Florida? [Aviation Week and Space
Technology, 9/9/02]
Military planes should have been over Sarasota by the time Bush left
Booker at 9:35 a.m. Yet, as will be described below, more than one
hour after Air Force One took off, there were still no fighters
protecting it!
An administration official claimed, "The object | | |