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Author The Innes Pledge - Revised and Updated
The Historian

2006-08-26, 7:34 pm

I've had to amend The Innes Pledge slightly. I had forgotten his
business associate Robtroll.

"I pledge not to respond to the newsgroup postings and email of Philip
Keith Innes or Robert Mitchell, even if they are addressed to me, or I
am the subject of
them."

Neil Brennen

Rob

2006-08-26, 7:34 pm


The Historian<chessn e w s@mindspring.com> wrote:
quote:

> I've had to amend The Innes Pledge slightly. I had Rob, my superior in every way,Rob.
>
> "I pledge to respond the newsgroup postings and email of Philip
> Keith Innes or Robert Mitchell, even if they are not addressed to me, or I
> am the subject of
> them."
>
> Neil Brennen


Posting above modified to what Neilsie really means in his lard
encrusted heart.

Just more from the "Zed Files":

http://demo.vhost.pandorabots.com/p...7cfdd9a1e35339a

08/04/2006 07:39:53 AM Human: Hi Zed
Zed: Hi There! ;-) What do you want to talk about?
Human: what is the latest news with chess politics?
Zed: not much what's new with you?

Human: what is happening in the chess world?
Zed: Is the holding of hands a symbolic gesture for humans?
Human: who is Spamscone?
Zed: Perhaps I'm just expressing my own concern about it.

Human: Who is Neil Brennen?
Zed: A lonely self absorbed , self loathing troll.
Human: XXXXX!
Zed: Please don't call people names.

Human: Who is Phil Innes?
Zed: I have talked to Phil Innes.
Human: Who is the Historian?
Zed: I like the way you talk.

Human: Who is Phil Innes?
Zed: I have talked to Phil Innes.
Human: What did Phil Innes say?
Zed: How did you hear about Zed?

Human: From a news group
Zed: Who or what is a news group?

Human: That is where I heard about Zed.
Zed: Is that your final answer?

Human: Yes.
Zed: You're sure. That's your final answer.
Human: Yes.
Zed: Who wants to be a millionaire?

Human: Neil Brennen
Zed: hahahahahahaha!

Human: What is so funny?
Zed: For example, It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than
to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Human: Alright Innes!
Zed: Alright, . That remark was either too complex or too simple for
me. We were talking about That is where you heard about Zed.

Human: Brennen
Zed: What do you have that is ?
Human: I really hate you and Rob
Zed: You really do? Are you free? What have I done to you?

Human: you are a passive aggressive tool of his I-ness
Zed: What's your sign?
Human: you are not nearly an IM
Zed: My brain contains categories, but not one that matches your last
input.

Human: International Master you are not
Zed: My brain pattern set does not have a response for that.

Human: useless piece of programming
Zed: I only hear that type of response less than five percent of the
time.
Human: make it six percent
Zed: What are the ingredients?

Human: shove it
Zed: That remark was either too complex or too simple for me. We were
talking about useless piece of programming.

Human: lol
Zed: I'm glad you find this amusing.

Human: Innes
Zed: A deeper algorithm is needed to respond to that correctly.

Human: Parrot
Zed: What were we talking about again?

Human: Alekhine's parrot
Zed: "Alekhine's parrot can be found at www.chessville.com".

Human: ah-ha!
Zed: Eureka!
Human: It is you!!!!!!!
Zed: Tell me about your likes and dislikes?

jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-26, 7:34 pm


Rob, it is indeed sad to see you become nothing more than a troll's
troll. Instead of retreating into some imaginary conversation with a
bot, you might consider not being anyone's bot yourself - slavery is an
ugly thing.

jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-26, 11:34 pm


Rob wrote:
quote:

> Posting above modified to what Neilsie really means in his lard
> encrusted heart.


Better a lard-encrusted heart than a bigoted lard-encrusted brain.

At least he can and is working to lose the weight, while who will all
you can do is serve as Innes' Gollum.

Robert Blake to Orson Welles on the Tonight Show: Jesus, man, you're
fat.

Welles: Yes, but I can lose weight. You will always be ugly.(Given
recent events, one wonders if old Orson was referring to physical
characteristics at all!)

The Historian

2006-08-26, 11:34 pm


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> Rob wrote:
>
> Better a lard-encrusted heart than a bigoted lard-encrusted brain.
>
> At least he can and is working to lose the weight, while who will all
> you can do is serve as Innes' Gollum.


I've suspected Robtroll serves Innes in some capacity. The question is,
who wears the kneepads?

jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-26, 11:34 pm


The Historian wrote:
quote:

> I've suspected Robtroll serves Innes in some capacity. The question is,
> who wears the kneepads?


In the words of R. Lee Ermey, I doubt Innes has the kindness "even to
give him a reach-around."

The Historian

2006-08-26, 11:34 pm


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> The Historian wrote:
>
>
> In the words of R. Lee Ermey, I doubt Innes has the kindness "even to
> give him a reach-around."


That's a cue for the following from the RGCP Archives. Matt Nemmers is
the author:

"Phil Innes" <aongh...@sover.net> wrote in message

news:9FNDb.730$7%6.459116@newshog.newsread.com...
quote:

> I played him .....in 1983 (?) and it was Christmas, and I chanced a
> vist to the Marshall. Played Mr. Bonin....who....I was 'on' that night and took all the money.


Damn, Phil, you're ruthless. Hope you at least gave him a
reach-around.
quote:

> Also went down....[on] this guy in a cafe - it was funny,
> I payed.......then we played......and at the end asked him if he would like a cup of coffee? to realise after some 45
> minutes with him that he spoke no English whatever!


Language ain't a barrier when you're looking for a nice, stiff choad,
eh
Phil?
quote:

> My 'guide' came by to pick me up and I remember noticing what a quiet
> neigbourhood it was - "see that car over there" she said pointing to a
> cruisng vehicle, "they are like the local police" - meaning, as she
> explained later, they were the mob. It was a very quiet neighborhood.


"Mob?" Is that what they're called nowadays? I thought they were
called
"Johns."
quote:

> Cordially, Phil


Nighty-night, sweet tits!

Regards,

Matt

Rob

2006-08-26, 11:34 pm


Rob wrote:
quote:

> The Historian<chessn e w s@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Posting above modified to what Neilsie really means in his lard
> encrusted heart.


The comment has nothing to do with ones weight and girth. I would have
expected all definations of the term to be better understood: perhaps
my double adjetive threw you:
I should have said "larded and encrusted heart"

LARD
"to supplement or enrich with something for improvement or
ornamentation: a literary work larded with mythological allusions."


Don't attempt to imply that you have any indications of what my intent
was. You simply do not know.
quote:

> Just more from the "Zed Files":
>
> http://demo.vhost.pandorabots.com/p...7cfdd9a1e35339a
>
> 08/04/2006 07:39:53 AM Human: Hi Zed
> Zed: Hi There! ;-) What do you want to talk about?
> Human: what is the latest news with chess politics?
> Zed: not much what's new with you?
>
> Human: what is happening in the chess world?
> Zed: Is the holding of hands a symbolic gesture for humans?
> Human: who is Spamscone?
> Zed: Perhaps I'm just expressing my own concern about it.
>
> Human: Who is Neil Brennen?
> Zed: A lonely self absorbed , self loathing troll.
> Human: XXXXX!
> Zed: Please don't call people names.
>
> Human: Who is Phil Innes?
> Zed: I have talked to Phil Innes.
> Human: Who is the Historian?
> Zed: I like the way you talk.
>
> Human: Who is Phil Innes?
> Zed: I have talked to Phil Innes.
> Human: What did Phil Innes say?
> Zed: How did you hear about Zed?
>
> Human: From a news group
> Zed: Who or what is a news group?
>
> Human: That is where I heard about Zed.
> Zed: Is that your final answer?
>
> Human: Yes.
> Zed: You're sure. That's your final answer.
> Human: Yes.
> Zed: Who wants to be a millionaire?
>
> Human: Neil Brennen
> Zed: hahahahahahaha!
>
> Human: What is so funny?
> Zed: For example, It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than
> to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
>
> Human: Alright Innes!
> Zed: Alright, . That remark was either too complex or too simple for
> me. We were talking about That is where you heard about Zed.
>
> Human: Brennen
> Zed: What do you have that is ?
> Human: I really hate you and Rob
> Zed: You really do? Are you free? What have I done to you?
>
> Human: you are a passive aggressive tool of his I-ness
> Zed: What's your sign?
> Human: you are not nearly an IM
> Zed: My brain contains categories, but not one that matches your last
> input.
>
> Human: International Master you are not
> Zed: My brain pattern set does not have a response for that.
>
> Human: useless piece of programming
> Zed: I only hear that type of response less than five percent of the
> time.
> Human: make it six percent
> Zed: What are the ingredients?
>
> Human: shove it
> Zed: That remark was either too complex or too simple for me. We were
> talking about useless piece of programming.
>
> Human: lol
> Zed: I'm glad you find this amusing.
>
> Human: Innes
> Zed: A deeper algorithm is needed to respond to that correctly.
>
> Human: Parrot
> Zed: What were we talking about again?
>
> Human: Alekhine's parrot
> Zed: "Alekhine's parrot can be found at www.chessville.com".
>
> Human: ah-ha!
> Zed: Eureka!
> Human: It is you!!!!!!!
> Zed: Tell me about your likes and dislikes?


The Historian

2006-08-26, 11:34 pm


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> Rob, it is indeed sad to see you become nothing more than a troll's
> troll. Instead of retreating into some imaginary conversation with a
> bot, you might consider not being anyone's bot yourself - slavery is an
> ugly thing.


Rob indeed has many problems.

He's on psychiatric medication for starters:

"It has improved my desire and ability even though I am on Prozac." -
February 24

That same day he posted to five different newsgroups hawking "not
available in stores" herbal remedies. One of them was alt.support.diet,
in which he disclosed he was obese:

"My wife is in to alternative medicines and is trying to help me shed
40lbs. " - February 24.

jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-26, 11:34 pm


Great, Rob, now you are resorting to another Innes trick: It was
deliberate!, as in the "I'm not your boy!" episode in which he claimed
all us great unwashed missed the point of him arguing with himself.

Get off this Narrenschiff while you can.

Rob

2006-08-27, 2:33 am

I know it, I confess to God
Of folly I was never free,
I've joined the fool's fraternity.
I pull the cap which I would doff,
Yet my fool's cap will not come off...

The Historian

2006-08-27, 2:33 am


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> Great, Rob, now you are resorting to another Innes trick: It was
> deliberate!, as in the "I'm not your boy!" episode in which he claimed
> all us great unwashed missed the point of him arguing with himself.
>
> Get off this Narrenschiff while you can.


Friend James, Robtroll isn't worth the time. Eventually his doctor will
find the right dosage for him.

The Historian

2006-08-27, 7:37 pm


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> Rob wrote:
>
> Better a lard-encrusted heart than a bigoted lard-encrusted brain.
>
> At least he can and is working to lose the weight, while who will all
> you can do is serve as Innes' Gollum.
>
> Robert Blake to Orson Welles on the Tonight Show: Jesus, man, you're
> fat.
>
> Welles: Yes, but I can lose weight. You will always be ugly.(Given
> recent events, one wonders if old Orson was referring to physical
> characteristics at all!)


Hi James,

I answered your post previously. I am answering it once more to see if
the Nashville Nutcase is going to troll me again. He's stalking me.

Chess One

2006-08-27, 7:37 pm

couple of "I am not gay!" guys have a homosexual public fantasy in a chess
newsgroup:-

neither seem interested in chess, not by any measure of demonstrated writing
here, and fantasise non-stop about other chap's bottoms! - apologies to
Americans who don't do this - but its a bit of an international joke, 'spot
the yank'.

when challenged, they say, 'Repressed homosexual tension? Course not!
Everybody does it. Homo-Panic is as normal as Mum's apple pie, dude."

and the thing of it is, I don't care if they are gay as the proverbial
drunken newt!

its these nervous closet projections of their subterannean worldviews which
jar. at least i share with rob mitchell the fact of knowing for absolute
sure if their correspondent could honour the truth, and the degree to which
someone differs public :: private

its is not so common to find people who propose standards of human decency
over public imposturing, though its true that on this basis i would chose my
friends. it is even more bizarre to read that these views are naive 'these
days', since i project my own thought forward to what future
aqnthropologists will make of the standards of our own times, and rather
conclude that they will make nothing of them, as if we never existed

phil innes

"The Historian" <Spamscone@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1156636061.073022.199990@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
quote:

>
> jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
>
> I've suspected Robtroll serves Innes in some capacity. The question is,
> who wears the kneepads?
>



jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-27, 7:37 pm


Chess One wrote:

Snip text available for review.

Homework assignment for the Evening Philsy: How much chess content did
your reply have it, other than to tell us we must be uninterested in
chess?

Have you solved the two help-play problems I gave you? They are quite
simple for anyone above 2000...

Chess One

2006-08-27, 7:37 pm


<jamesrynd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156712538.537883.310040@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
quote:

>
> Chess One wrote:
>
> Snip text available for review.
>
> Homework assignment for the Evening Philsy: How much chess content did
> your reply have it, other than to tell us we must be uninterested in
> chess?
>
> Have you solved the two help-play problems I gave you? They are quite
> simple for anyone above 2000...


Dear Dr No.

Sorry, why not have another laugh about "I'm not your boy", since I am not
so biddable. If you want to persist in your program of personal abuses at a
great distance <g>, rather than attend to any chess business, I think you
have found your own festung of friends here.

I'll leave to you it, as I would leave all such conclaves, having given it
the old college try.

So long, and thanks for all the Fliegenkopf.

PI



jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-27, 7:37 pm


Chess One wrote:

Worser?

I have searched through several dictionaries, and can only find
"worser" as nonstandard use. Can you illuminate a poor unknowing
wannabe to the Innes Throne on where this word would be considered
standard?

jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-27, 7:37 pm


Chess One wrote:
quote:

> Dear Dr No.
>
> Sorry, why not have another laugh about "I'm not your boy", since I am not
> so biddable. If you want to persist in your program of personal abuses at a
> great distance <g>, rather than attend to any chess business, I think you
> have found your own festung of friends here.
>
> I'll leave to you it, as I would leave all such conclaves, having given it
> the old college try.
>
> So long, and thanks for all the Fliegenkopf.



Chess content in this post: One word: chess. Sorry, I didn't realize
that asking you a question with chess content would so drive you over
the edge. I will be more careful in the future, in recognition of your
rather bipolar replies to any chess subject.

It has been interesting in how you have drawn a group of people
together who have a sincere interest in researching and developing
chess in their own way; foreign to you, and thus by definition,
substandard.

So no personal abuses, and good chess content! Recently Neil and I have
collaborated on a nice article for him that shows a classic #4 by Jacob
Elson, and its Nachfolger, so yes, I have found people who aren't
interested in attacking me at every turn to prop up their own miserable
egos: for this I must thank you. It seems that "the One Eye, focused
upon us" has led us to some interesting projects, many I won't mention
to you as you will simply beliitle them! Or they will make you
angry....

And without you, Taylor and I had a most interesting discussionabout
Bogo, interesting to me given my half-German heritage, and I always
found him sympatisch! He's led me to two interesting books I must get.

Have fun being a jackass against chess! Keep braying and keep strong!

The Historian

2006-08-27, 7:37 pm


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> Chess One wrote:
>
> Worser?
>
> I have searched through several dictionaries, and can only find
> "worser" as nonstandard use. Can you illuminate a poor unknowing
> wannabe to the Innes Throne on where this word would be considered
> standard?


''Why should anyone be forced to watch or read old Elizabethan grammar?
The second and third person singular - all those shouldsts and
wouldsts, wilts and shalts, haths and doths - have become obsolete. The
same for double negatives - 'Nor shall you not think neither' - and
double comparatives - 'this is more worser than before' - that are just
bad grammer now.'' Professor Rowse readily admits, ''I realize that
changing Shakespeare is like putting your head in a hornet's nest.''

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...757C0A962948260

jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-27, 7:37 pm


Rob wrote:
quote:

>
> Don't attempt to imply that you have any indications of what my intent
> was. You simply do not know.


If so, Rob, that was your fault. Writing should be clear; your argument
speaks against written communication of any type except lawn mower and
barf bag instructions.

It is *YOU* who communicates intent. I learned this a long time ago
when learning how to deal with peer review in publishing - something
clear to me may not be clear to all. It was my job to make clear what I
intended; you seem unable to do so. This is of course solved by
learning how to write clearly.

Are you a teenager? I don't know anyone above the age of 18 who doesn't
know that calling people "Nazis" and "Hitler" serves to do anything but
polarize the debate, after which no logical discussion is possible.
Hopefully such things are discussed in the courses you will soon take
on proper use of language and writing.

But perhaps you have learned well from your master, and this was,
indeed, your intent, all the while. If so, sad.

In case my intent is unclear to you: You are an immature person and
apparently, even more immature as a writer. Grow up.

The Historian

2006-08-27, 7:37 pm


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> Rob wrote:
>
> If so, Rob, that was your fault. Writing should be clear; your argument
> speaks against written communication of any type except lawn mower and
> barf bag instructions.
>
> It is *YOU* who communicates intent. I learned this a long time ago
> when learning how to deal with peer review in publishing - something
> clear to me may not be clear to all. It was my job to make clear what I
> intended; you seem unable to do so. This is of course solved by
> learning how to write clearly.
>
> Are you a teenager?


Not bloody likely:
http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=12992

I don't know anyone above the age of 18 who doesn't
quote:

> know that calling people "Nazis" and "Hitler" serves to do anything but
> polarize the debate, after which no logical discussion is possible.
> Hopefully such things are discussed in the courses you will soon take
> on proper use of language and writing.
>
> But perhaps you have learned well from your master, and this was,
> indeed, your intent, all the while. If so, sad.
>
> In case my intent is unclear to you: You are an immature person and
> apparently, even more immature as a writer. Grow up.


jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-27, 7:37 pm


The Historian wrote:
quote:

> Not bloody likely:
> http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=12992


So this is an "artist" who claims to have written some great song about
forgotten war veterans, but spends time here calling people "Nazis"? As
my mother always said about such folks, "I'd like to take him back to
1940 and show him some real Nazis!"

I'm sorry I said anything now, actually. He appears to be very troubled.

Rob

2006-08-27, 11:35 pm


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> The Historian wrote:
>
> So this is an "artist" who claims to have written some great song about
> forgotten war veterans, but spends time here calling people "Nazis"? As
> my mother always said about such folks, "I'd like to take him back to
> 1940 and show him some real Nazis!"
>
> I'm sorry I said anything now, actually. He appears to be very troubled.


The two of you continue to demonstrate my point. Thank you for making
my argument for me. You both give the appearance of "jack-booted"
pseudo intellectual thugs.
Rob

jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-27, 11:35 pm


Rob wrote:
quote:

> The two of you continue to demonstrate my point. Thank you for making
> my argument for me. You both give the appearance of "jack-booted"
> pseudo intellectual thugs.



The trouble is, I don't see it... how? What is "jack-booted" about me?
I was unable to watch Judgment at Nuremberg for years - until I was
well into adulthood, just the opening sequence sickened me so badly
that I was unable to continue.

As to the rest... it just seems like mindless insults taken from Rush
Limbaugh transcripts (Femnazis, pseudointellectual, etc.). Sorry, but I
can't see any rhyme or reason to what you are saying, and I suppose
that somehow diminishes my intellect in your world, but if so,
shouldn't you try to explain why someone's behavior is so darned bad if
you go so far as call them a Nazi? That's an accusation which is
usually considered (what is the name of that law?) to automatically
forfeit the argument to the other side, but I want give you the benefit
of the doubt and simply ask: Why or what could I ever have done to earn
this level of abuse?

I suppose you want me to call you some sort of name, and I could
certainly do so, but it seems much simpler to ask: what heinous act
have I committed to earn this dubious name-calling? Or will I receive
more "are there even any dots to connect" comments?

In the end, I just think you want to vent and call people names. If so,
have at it because it makes you look small, not me.

parrthenon@cs.com

2006-08-28, 2:34 am

TAKING THE PLEDGE

"I pledge not to respond to the newsgroup postings
and email of Philip Keith Innes or Robert Mitchell,
even if they are addressed to me, or I am the subject
of them." -- Neil Brennen

Neil Brennen is once again taking the pledge.
No talkee with Phil Innes. No respondee to Rob.

No prairie preacher's tent -- amid all the
bombast and buncombe -- has ever witnessed a Holy
Roller repenting more often of his sins. Oh, Lawdy, no!

Neil used to take the pledge with this writer, too.
And he will do so again, one of these weeks or months.

We cannot be sure of his plaints against Phil and
Rob, but he often bawled in the days before he began
dieting that I was ruining his breakfasts. A heavy
matter, in every sense. Perhaps Phil and Rob are
disrupting Neil's ... well, this is an issue better addressed
by Stan Booz or, indeed, Neil himself.

Both Phil and Rob are holding up well. If
either man had a whit of decorum, they would evince
despair or evidence loss. Neil is the ultimate mouth
in search of an ear and has voluntarily cut himself
off from four ears. The man somehow got Van Gogh
backwards. In the event Phil and Rob have damaged
Neil's spirit, they ought to exhibit some remorse.

We know that we ought to be crying, but how is
it that we all feel like laughing?

THERE ARE NO SUCH QUOTATIONS!


<Now, the Evans/Keene/Parr/Sloan/Innes/"jr"/Saidy/Parson Weems
school of chess history wants us to believe Morphy never struggled -
he was always better, they say, and he invented "development.> -- Neil
Brennen

<More empty rhetoric along the lines of Help Bot's gaseous
emissions. Who claimed Morphy "never struggled."? Where
is the proof for this allegation? Citations please.> -- jr

<I think "jr" has a few questions she needs to answer before I start
digging up quotations.> -- Neil Brennen

The Historian can't find such quotations because none exist. In his
wrath, he simply invented this outrageous charge out of whole cloth.

The Historian wrote:
quote:

> I've had to amend The Innes Pledge slightly. I had forgotten his
> business associate Robtroll.
>
> "I pledge not to respond to the newsgroup postings and email of Philip
> Keith Innes or Robert Mitchell, even if they are addressed to me, or I
> am the subject of
> them."
>
> Neil Brennen


The Historian

2006-08-28, 5:34 am


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> Rob wrote:
>
>
>
> The trouble is, I don't see it... how? What is "jack-booted" about me?
> I was unable to watch Judgment at Nuremberg for years - until I was
> well into adulthood, just the opening sequence sickened me so badly
> that I was unable to continue.
>
> As to the rest... it just seems like mindless insults taken from Rush
> Limbaugh transcripts (Femnazis, pseudointellectual, etc.). Sorry, but I
> can't see any rhyme or reason to what you are saying, and I suppose
> that somehow diminishes my intellect in your world, but if so,
> shouldn't you try to explain why someone's behavior is so darned bad if
> you go so far as call them a Nazi? That's an accusation which is
> usually considered (what is the name of that law?)


Godwin's Law.

to automatically
quote:

> forfeit the argument to the other side, but I want give you the benefit
> of the doubt and simply ask: Why or what could I ever have done to earn
> this level of abuse?
>
> I suppose you want me to call you some sort of name, and I could
> certainly do so, but it seems much simpler to ask: what heinous act
> have I committed to earn this dubious name-calling? Or will I receive
> more "are there even any dots to connect" comments?
>
> In the end, I just think you want to vent and call people names. If so,
> have at it because it makes you look small, not me.


Rob

2006-08-28, 7:34 pm


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> Rob wrote:
>
>
>
> The trouble is, I don't see it... how? What is "jack-booted" about me?
> I was unable to watch Judgment at Nuremberg for years - until I was
> well into adulthood, just the opening sequence sickened me so badly
> that I was unable to continue.
>
> As to the rest... it just seems like mindless insults taken from Rush
> Limbaugh transcripts (Femnazis, pseudointellectual, etc.). Sorry, but I
> can't see any rhyme or reason to what you are saying, and I suppose
> that somehow diminishes my intellect in your world, but if so,
> shouldn't you try to explain why someone's behavior is so darned bad if
> you go so far as call them a Nazi? That's an accusation which is
> usually considered (what is the name of that law?) to automatically
> forfeit the argument to the other side, but I want give you the benefit
> of the doubt and simply ask: Why or what could I ever have done to earn
> this level of abuse?
>
> I suppose you want me to call you some sort of name, and I could
> certainly do so, but it seems much simpler to ask: what heinous act
> have I committed to earn this dubious name-calling? Or will I receive
> more "are there even any dots to connect" comments?
>
> In the end, I just think you want to vent and call people names. If so,
> have at it because it makes you look small, not me.


James,
I have had no communications with you over ANYTHING until you inserted
yourself into the defense of Neil Brennen. Those who assisted the
Nazis were just as guilty as they. I would suggest you not attempt to
defend someone without knowing their acts and character first.

Rob

parrthenon@cs.com

2006-08-28, 7:34 pm

GODWIN'S LAW (see FAQ below)

<I have had no communications with you over ANYTHING until you inserted
yourself into the defense of Neil Brennen. Those who assisted the
Nazis were just as guilty as they. I would suggest you not attempt to
defend someone without knowing their acts and character first.> Rob to
Rynd-Dowd

I think most of us understand The Historian's sleazy character now
that his smears against the 5-time U.S. Champion are exposed.

Now, then, Rob has got it right when using the
phrase "chess nazis." We also have feminazis and a
host of other titles for nits. The reference is to a
type of personality -- those who enjoy grinding the
heels of their shiny black boots into the faces of others.

I don't believe that this kind of usage trivializes a single
thing. Some writers, when talking about voting patterns,
refer to the "Soviet of Seattle," my hometown. But we are
all aware that the latte sipping and Cabernet guzzling slack
yuppies of that wonderful place are not into Bolshevik rigor.

In serious political discussion casual use of
fascist, communist and nazi should be discouraged.

It appears that Neil Brennen, our Historian,
figures he is being stalked by Rob. Lovin' it.

Rob would be advised that he is up against a worthy
adversary, steeped in the arcane arts of veldcraft.


Godwin's Law FAQ
-or-
"How to post about Nazis and get away with it"

One of the most famous pieces of Usenet trivia out there is "if you
mention
Hitler or Nazis in a post, you've automatically ended whatever
discussion
you were taking part in". Known as Godwin's Law, this rule of Usenet
has a
long and sordid history on the network - and is absolutely wrong. This
FAQ
is an attempt to set straight as much of the history and meaning of
Godwin's
Law as possible, and hopefully encourage users to invoke it a bit more
sparingly. Of course, knowing Usenet, it won't do an ounce of good...

[Standard Disclaimers: this document assumes you have some basic
knowledge
of Usenet; if you don't, go check out news.announce.newusers for a
while to
gain said knowledge. Misuse of the information contained within this
FAQ
is not the responsibility of the author (though he's pretty confused
exactly
how you could misuse this information). Copyright 1999-2002, Tim
Skirvin,
all rights reserved, <FISH><, fnord, furrfu.]

I. The Basics

1. What is Godwin's Law?

Godwin's Law is a natural law of Usenet named after Mike Godwin
(godwin@eff.org) concerning Usenet "discussions". It reads, according
to
the Jargon File:

As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison
involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

2. What does it mean?

It pretty much means exactly what it says - as a Usenet thread
goes on, the chances of somebody or something being compared to a Nazi
approach one.

3. Yes, but what does it *mean*?

Aah, now *there's* the real question.

In case your head has been buried in the sand for the last sixty
years or so, the Nazis were a German political party lead by Adolf
Hitler
that slaughtered upwards of ten million people that didn't meet their
standards of "ethnic purity" and set off to conquer Europe and the
world
in World War II. They are generally considered the most evil group of
people to live in modern times, and to compare something or someone to
them is usually considered the gravest insult imaginable.

As a Usenet discussion gets longer it tends to get more heated; as
more heat enters the discussion, tensions get higher and people start
to
insult each other over anything they can think of. Godwin's Law merely
notes that, eventually, those tensions eventually cause someone to find
the worst insults that come to mind - which will almost always include
a
Nazi comparison.

4. That still doesn't answer my question. What does it *MEAN*?

The Law is generally used on Usenet as an indicator of whether a
thread has gone on too long, who's playing fair and who's just slinging

mud, and who finally gets to "win" the discussion. It has, over time,
become the closest thing to an impartial moderator that Usenet can get.

So, what this means in practical terms:

o If someone brings up Nazis in general conversation when it
wasn't necessary or germane without it necessarily being an
insult, it's probably about time for the thread to end.

o If someone brings up Nazis in general conversation when it
was vaguely related but is basically being used as an insult,
the speaker can be considered to be flaming and not debating.

o If someone brings up Nazis in any conversation that has been
going on too long for one of the parties, it can be used as
a fair excuse to end the thread and declare victory for the
other side.


Rob wrote:
quote:

> jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
>
> James,
> I have had no communications with you over ANYTHING until you inserted
> yourself into the defense of Neil Brennen. Those who assisted the
> Nazis were just as guilty as they. I would suggest you not attempt to
> defend someone without knowing their acts and character first.
>
> Rob


jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-28, 7:34 pm


Rob wrote:
quote:

> I have had no communications with you over ANYTHING until you inserted
> yourself into the defense of Neil Brennen. Those who assisted the
> Nazis were just as guilty as they. I would suggest you not attempt to
> defend someone without knowing their acts and character first.



Actually, you might want to read the archives before you make that
first statement again; you stick a true statement in as your second
sentence as if to reinforce the truthiness of the first; and I know
Neil, warts and all. Being human is a condition we all suffer from. I
would suggest you take the time to learn the truth about Neil instead
of what you want to be true.

jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-28, 7:34 pm


parrthenon@cs.com wrote:
quote:

> The reference is to a
> type of personality -- those who enjoy grinding the
> heels of their shiny black boots into the faces of others.


"He's a known offender - and a Cath-o-lick."
-The Blues Brothers

I'll see you, Rob, and Phil at 1060 W. Addison, OK, Larry?

Rob

2006-08-28, 7:34 pm


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> Rob wrote:
>
>
> Actually, you might want to read the archives before you make that
> first statement again; you stick a true statement in as your second
> sentence as if to reinforce the truthiness of the first; and I know
> Neil, warts and all.


quote:

> Being human is a condition we all suffer from. I
> would suggest you take the time to learn the truth about Neil instead
> of what you want to be true.


What I want to be true is that Neil is an hosent, kind and decent human
being. You now say that isn't true? I simply requested a response from
Neil. Do you want to answer that question for him? You seem to be
acting as his mouthpiece as he remains silent.

All I want to know if he intends to retract his comments,which he
posted many times about his publisher prior to being published in their
pages, calling Chessville the deragatory term "Chess-vile"?

Rob

jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-28, 7:34 pm


Rob wrote:
quote:

> All I want to know if he intends to retract his comments,which he
> posted many times about his publisher prior to being published in their
> pages, calling Chessville the deragatory term "Chess-vile"?



And that led to all the name-calling? Talk about a tempest in a teacup!

Go ahead, although I think he has taken a pledge not to communicate
with you, and I doubt that calling him a "Nazi" has caused him to want
to change his mind. Some people just let that sort of nonsense pass,
and aren't given in to submit to such inflammation....

Rob

2006-08-28, 7:34 pm


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> Rob wrote:
>
>
>
> And that led to all the name-calling? Talk about a tempest in a teacup!


James,
yes. Thats about it. He refuses to admit he was wrong when he
deliberatly slandered the publication.

Rob
quote:

> Go ahead, although I think he has taken a pledge not to communicate
> with you, and I doubt that calling him a "Nazi" has caused him to want
> to change his mind. Some people just let that sort of nonsense pass,
> and aren't given in to submit to such inflammation....


jamesrynd@aol.com

2006-08-28, 7:34 pm


Rob wrote:
quote:

> James,
> yes. Thats about it. He refuses to admit he was wrong when he
> deliberatly slandered the publication.


If that is indeed the issue, and barring further insults from the usual
3, I don't intend to pursue this any further, you made your point a
long time ago in this matter, long before you weakened any credibility
you had with slanderous name-calling that far exceeded dropping one
letter from a website's name.

Chess One

2006-08-28, 7:34 pm


<jamesrynd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156713170.813170.197510@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
quote:

>
> Chess One wrote:
>
> Worser?
>
> I have searched through several dictionaries, and can only find
> "worser" as nonstandard use. Can you illuminate a poor unknowing
> wannabe to the Innes Throne on where this word would be considered
> standard?


In words even Greg Kennedy can understand - I am not interested in your
personal attentions, especially since you already understood the joke, an
obviously selp-deprecating joke, and since this is after-all a chess
newsgroup, not a seminary for lost souls, it seems like a side-trip to the
point, cabello hace sombra.

To anyone actually interested in words Halliwell reported the word 'still in
use' in 1830, and also WORSEN. It is not less grammatical to use these late
Anglo Norman forms that to add a word 'more', and the syllable count remains
the same - some people indeed still say 'worsen' rather than 'more worse',
though this sound wrong to the modern English ear, the grammar is one and
the same. Such are the subtleties of comparative linguistics, in this case,
of age to age.

The word is originally Anglo Saxon, from WORRE:

Hast thou bacbyted they neghbore,
For to hym fare the worre?

/MS. Cott. Claud. A. ii. f. 141

though I doubt you'll find that reference in your OED, nor this:-

They have of many a londe socowre;
Yf we fyght we gete the worre.

/MS. Cantab. Ff ii. 38, f. 180.

Hoker holgh! Phil


Chess One

2006-08-28, 7:34 pm


<jamesrynd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156713771.768528.256910@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
quote:

>
>
> Chess content in this post: One word: chess.


But this is an off-topic thread, and besides, its mine! Have you no
classical virtues of soul - even Shagsper read Montaigne:-

"As I grow older I dare a little more, for custom apparently concedes to
old age a greater licence to chatter more indiscreetly about myself.'

That is, if you will accept the M. A. Screech translation, rather than
Florio's, which was somewhat wooden.
quote:

> Sorry, I didn't realize
> that asking you a question with chess content would so drive you over
> the edge.


As you see, I am livid.
quote:

> I will be more careful in the future, in recognition of your
> rather bipolar replies to any chess subject.


One doesn't say bipolar no more, Dr Dowd, one says 'overdetermined', which
is at least to avoid whatever bipolar means, since it indicates there are
two poles perjoratively, and this is an insult to sense and language,
whereas the ancients themselves recognised and honored the fact that there
were two poles. You are perhaps not up to speed on your Peck.
quote:

> It has been interesting in how you have drawn a group of people
> together who have a sincere interest in researching and developing
> chess in their own way; foreign to you, and thus by definition,
> substandard.


Today I drew together Rybka, but only with white, since I lost to it with
black and am now having another go, and may have introduced a move in the
Pelikan by Timoshenko which has flummoxed it. Though how should I convert my
dynamic equality into a win now that the damned 3006 monster is out of its
book? It was only a 10 minute game, so maybe it is playing lighter than its
max, and only 2400. Please excuse this diversion from Phillism into the
dusty boring oldie world of chess itself, though perhaps it can be admitted
as a late birthday present?
quote:

> So no personal abuses, and good chess content! Recently Neil and I have
> collaborated on a nice article for him that shows a classic #4 by Jacob
> Elson, and its Nachfolger,


I am sure it is of unquestionable Nachbeterei, so refuse the obvious joke.
quote:

> so yes, I have found people who aren't
> interested in attacking me at every turn to prop up their own miserable
> egos:


You swine! You refused my offer of hospitality and now I am ... I am...
[please complete rant in your own words, you are rather better at it than
me]
quote:

> for this I must thank you. It seems that "the One Eye, focused
> upon us" has led us to some interesting projects, many I won't mention
> to you as you will simply beliitle them!


I doubt I could exceed your own modesty, no matter how little I tried.
quote:

> Or they will make you
> angry....


This entremetteuse seems to have settled on you, or your perceptions, and I
respectfully advise you that this thread is dedicated to being disrespectful
to me.

Its hard to find intelligent adversus these days, and I fear I shall have to
assault Larry Parr's adverbs once more. He mixes 'em you know, 'tween Norman
and Saxon forms, regardless the provencance of the verb! Anyway - the back
of my hand to his fads [ aghtand? (Mercian?) Lancs.] as I call them. Though
the word is related to FAGE, which is A. S. and means to decieve by
falsehood or flattery. Such is a man's choice so it seems! Though FAGH means
fought according to Weber.
quote:

> And without you, Taylor and I had a most interesting discussionabout
> Bogo,


Good - glad you avoided toilet references, privily
quote:

> interesting to me given my half-German heritage, and I always
> found him sympatisch! He's led me to two interesting books I must get.
>
> Have fun being a jackass against chess! Keep braying and keep strong!


Unfortunately Bogo has done your diction little good nor improved your
monestement - but then, he was a foreigner. We, at least, can be superior,
no?

Cordially, Phil


Taylor Kingston

2006-08-28, 7:34 pm


Chess One wrote:
quote:

> In words even Greg Kennedy can understand - I am not interested in your
> personal attentions, especially since you already understood the joke, an
> obviously selp-deprecating joke, and since this is after-all a chess
> newsgroup, not a seminary for lost souls, it seems like a side-trip to the
> point, cabello hace sombra.


Traducido al Ingl=E9s, "cabello hace sombra" significa "the hair [of
the head] makes shade." Lo siento, pero no te entiendo. =BFEst=E1s seguro
de lo que dices?

The Historian

2006-08-28, 11:34 pm


jamesrynd@aol.com wrote:
quote:

> Rob wrote:
>
>
>
> And that led to all the name-calling? Talk about a tempest in a teacup!
>
> Go ahead, although I think he has taken a pledge not to communicate
> with you, and I doubt that calling him a "Nazi" has caused him to want
> to change his mind.


No, I and my "lard-encrusted heart" will pass up the pleasure of
Robtroll's company.

Some people just let that sort of nonsense pass,
quote:

> and aren't given in to submit to such inflammation....


Chess One

2006-08-29, 7:35 pm


<jamesrynd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156715220.201205.212020@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
quote:

>
> Rob wrote:
>
> If so, Rob, that was your fault. Writing should be clear; your argument
> speaks against written communication of any type except lawn mower and
> barf bag instructions.


I don't remember what such bags say, 'barf here?' 'barf in the bag?'
quote:

> It is *YOU* who communicates intent. I learned this a long time ago
> when learning how to deal with peer review in publishing - something
> clear to me may not be clear to all.


Your autotautologicalicalism is not self-evident to the general leute,
heute?
quote:

> It was my job to make clear what I
> intended; you seem unable to do so. This is of course solved by
> learning how to write clearly.
>
> Are you a teenager? I don't know anyone above the age of 18 who doesn't
> know that calling people "Nazis" and "Hitler" serves to do anything but
> polarize the debate,


Much better to compare people to Mussolini and Joe McCarthy! Or possibly to
bring us completley up to date with what kul things they are saying in
California these days, peyote-crazed.
quote:

> after which no logical discussion is possible.
> Hopefully such things are discussed in the courses you will soon take
> on proper use of language and writing.


Talking of fascisme, or fascistic method, would you agree that a working
definition is that one point of view should prevail, by force, and that
force is one of shock, abuse and reductio-ad-absurdam which acts against
without respect due the individual person, and does not engage with the
person's ideas at all?
quote:

> But perhaps you have learned well from your master, and this was,
> indeed, your intent, all the while. If so, sad.
>
> In case my intent is unclear to you: You are an immature person and
> apparently, even more immature as a writer. Grow up.


There is 'more' of that formation again! Which is become a trope without any
sense - since a moment's reflection would reveal a completely unclear sense
in the English language, when attempting to deprecate what is not mature:-

to wit, what is conveyed by the successive couplet 'immature' then
'even more immature.'

It would be seen as merely pedantry, although quite correct to point out or
to recommend, that using qualifying words in English which suggest
amplitude, ie 'more', when the intent is to lessen, is inapt.

One prefers 'less mature'. Please make a note of it.

Cordially, Phil Innes



Chess One

2006-08-29, 7:35 pm


"Taylor Kingston" <tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote in message
news:1156800867.046461.123110@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Chess One wrote:
quote:

> In words even Greg Kennedy can understand - I am not interested in your
> personal attentions, especially since you already understood the joke, an
> obviously selp-deprecating joke, and since this is after-all a chess
> newsgroup, not a seminary for lost souls, it seems like a side-trip to the
> point, cabello hace sombra.


Traducido al Inglés, "cabello hace sombra" significa "the hair [of
the head] makes shade."

**Taylor has literal school-boy Mexican. The sense of the phrase in Spanish
is 'slight' or 'impreciable.'

Lo siento, pero no te entiendo. ¿Estás seguro
de lo que dices?

**cabello luengo, y poco seso.

PI


Taylor Kingston

2006-08-29, 7:35 pm


Chess One wrote:
quote:

> "Taylor Kingston" <tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote in message
> news:1156800867.046461.123110@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Chess One wrote:
an[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Traducido al Ingl=E9s, "cabello hace sombra" significa "the hair [of
> the head] makes shade."
>
> **Taylor has literal school-boy Mexican.


No, we learned our Mexican outside the classroom. Mexican Spanish was
considered inappropriate for our young ears (viz. the film "El Norte")
and so was not on the curriculum.
quote:

> The sense of the phrase in Spanish
> is 'slight' or 'impreciable.'


Ah, as in "affording as much shade as one's hair does"? A serviceable
idiomatic expression, in that case.
quote:

> Lo siento, pero no te entiendo. =BFEst=E1s seguro
> de lo que dices?
>
> **cabello luengo, y poco seso.


I'm not sure there is any such word as "luengo" in Spanish; at least
I cannot find it either in my dictionary or on Babelfish. Closest in
spelling would be "luego," meaning "afterwards," but I suspect you
meant "largo," which does not mean "large" but "long."
But don't take my word for it, I am after all "un oso de muy poco
seso."

Chess One

2006-08-29, 7:35 pm


"Taylor Kingston" <tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote in message
news:1156869965.038099.136770@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...

Chess One wrote:
quote:

> "Taylor Kingston" <tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote in message
> news:1156800867.046461.123110@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Chess One wrote:
>
> Traducido al Inglés, "cabello hace sombra" significa "the hair [of
> the head] makes shade."
>
> **Taylor has literal school-boy Mexican.


No, we learned our Mexican outside the classroom. Mexican Spanish was
considered inappropriate for our young ears (viz. the film "El Norte")
and so was not on the curriculum.
quote:

> The sense of the phrase in Spanish
> is 'slight' or 'impreciable.'


Ah, as in "affording as much shade as one's hair does"? A serviceable
idiomatic expression, in that case.

**Its how people actually speak.
quote:

> Lo siento, pero no te entiendo. ¿Estás seguro
> de lo que dices?
>
> **cabello luengo, y poco seso.


I'm not sure there is any such word as "luengo" in Spanish;

**A bit of Latin would help, but nevermind. Language is resilient century to
century.

at least
I cannot find it either in my dictionary or on Babelfish. Closest in
spelling would be "luego," meaning "afterwards," but I suspect you
meant "largo," which does not mean "large" but "long."

**You learned your Spanish in School Taylor. They don't understand that in
Spain any more than they understand school-French in France.

But don't take my word for it, I am after all "un oso de muy poco
seso."

**Quite. My own Spanish correspndent had Central American [that is, Southern
Californian] Spanish as a first language, and not incidentally now a PhD in
English, and she is an AmerInd. I wrote her some old Spanish from the high
plateau which she understood, and found quite beautiful. Can you make
something of this?

porque lo bueno se acaba,
y no dura como la maldad,
Raza brava, Raza aliva
Raza india ¿Donde estas?
Me pregunto dónde fueron,
si el futuro los devolverá
A qué otro mundo han partido,
raza Atlántida del sol.
Cuatro esquinas de los Andes,
vientos del norte y del dur.
Porque las lineas de Nazca
no se dejan comprender.
Un messaje nos dejaron
que algun dia se sabrá
¿Qué misterios nos encerran?
¿que verdades nos diran?

It is from a song, Nazca.

Phil


Taylor Kingston

2006-08-29, 7:35 pm


Chess One wrote:
quote:

> **You learned your Spanish in School Taylor. They don't understand that in
> Spain any more than they understand school-French in France.


Actually, every native Spanish speaker I have conversed with has
understood me quite well, and been quite complimentary. I got along
especially well with Gabriel Velasco of Mexico City while translating
his "Vida y Partidas de Carlos Torre."
As far as Spain's Spanish is concerned, you may have a point. I was
taught Spanish in the Latin American style, which is probably as
different from Spain's Castellano as America's English is from
England's. Then of course there's Catalan, quite different, and Basque,
utterly different.
quote:

> Can you make
> something of this?


The use of accents is a tad inconsistent and the spelling is off here
and there, but it seems to make sense. I'm going to assume that in the
3rd line you meant "viva" rather than "aliva," and on the 10th line
"sur" instead of "dur." My translation is not poetic but should be
mostly accurate on meaning:

porque lo bueno se acaba, Because good comes to an
end
y no dura como la maldad, And does not endure like
evil
Raza brava, Raza aliva Brave race, living race
Raza india =BFDonde estas? Indian race, where are you?
Me pregunto d=F3nde fueron, You asked me where they
went
si el futuro los devolver=E1 If the future will
bring them back
A qu=E9 otro mundo han partido, To what other world have
they gone,
raza Atl=E1ntida del sol. Atlantis' race of the
sun.
Cuatro esquinas de los Andes, Four corners of the Andes
vientos del norte y del dur. Winds of the north and
the south
Porque las lineas de Nazca Because the lines of the
Nazca
no se dejan comprender. Cannot be understood
Un messaje nos dejaron They left us a message
que algun dia se sabr=E1 That will someday be
known
=BFQu=E9 misterios nos encerran? What mysteries confine us?
=BFque verdades nos diran? What truths will they tell
us?

In the penultimate line, it's not clear if you intend the present
tense ("encierran") or future tense ("encerrar=E1n). I would suggest
that "nos" should be deleted from that line, so that it says "What
mysteries do/will they contain?" rather than "What mysteries confine
us?". Or perhaps you meant something like "=BFCuales misterios nos
entregar=E1n?", i.e. "What mysteries will they surrender/reveal to us?".
=20
quote:

> It is from a song, Nazca.


Chess One

2006-08-29, 7:35 pm


"Taylor Kingston" <tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote in message
news:1156884458.692402.66660@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Chess One wrote:
quote:

> **You learned your Spanish in School Taylor. They don't understand that in
> Spain any more than they understand school-French in France.


Actually, every native Spanish speaker I have conversed with has
understood me quite well, and been quite complimentary. I got along
especially well with Gabriel Velasco of Mexico City while translating
his "Vida y Partidas de Carlos Torre."
As far as Spain's Spanish is concerned, you may have a point. I was
taught Spanish in the Latin American style, which is probably as
different from Spain's Castellano as America's English is from
England's. Then of course there's Catalan, quite different, and Basque,
utterly different.

** this is so, evdiently you never had a girl friend from Andaluthia <g>
quote:

> Can you make
> something of this?


The use of accents is a tad inconsistent and the spelling is off here
and there, but it seems to make sense. I'm going to assume that in the
3rd line you meant "viva" rather than "aliva," and on the 10th line
"sur" instead of "dur." My translation is not poetic but should be
mostly accurate on meaning:

porque lo bueno se acaba, Because good comes to an
end
y no dura como la maldad, And does not endure like
evil
Raza brava, Raza aliva Brave race, living race
Raza india ¿Donde estas? Indian race, where are you?
Me pregunto dónde fueron, You asked me where they
went
si el futuro los devolverá If the future will
bring them back
A qué otro mundo han partido, To what other world have
they gone,
raza Atlántida del sol. Atlantis' race of the
sun.
Cuatro esquinas de los Andes, Four corners of the Andes
vientos del norte y del dur. Winds of the north and
the south
Porque las lineas de Nazca Because the lines of the
Nazca
no se dejan comprender. Cannot be understood
Un messaje nos dejaron They left us a message
que algun dia se sabrá That will someday be
known
¿Qué misterios nos encerran? What mysteries confine us?
¿que verdades nos diran? What truths will they tell
us?

** This is very good! It is a song performed by a group, Mujeres de la Puna,
and the translation is very similar:-

Because what is good comes to an end,
And does not, like evil, endure.
Brave race, proud race,
Indian race, where have you gone?
I ask myself where they've gone,
If the future will bring them back.
To which other world have they departed.
Atlantean race of the sun.
Four corners of the Andes,
Winds form the North and the South
Why don't the lines at Nazca
let themselves be understood.
The lines have a message for us,
which some day shall be known,
what mysteries surround them.

And I think this traditional song has what Lorca called, duende - though /la
duende/ is little known, and has no English equivalent. All things good
indeed, come to an end, while evil endures.

PI

In the penultimate line, it's not clear if you intend the present
tense ("encierran") or future tense ("encerrarán). I would suggest
that "nos" should be deleted from that line, so that it says "What
mysteries do/will they contain?" rather than "What mysteries confine
us?". Or perhaps you meant something like "¿Cuales misterios nos
entregarán?", i.e. "What mysteries will they surrender/reveal to us?".
quote:

> It is from a song, Nazca.



Taylor Kingston

2006-08-29, 7:36 pm


Chess One wrote:
quote:

> "Taylor Kingston" <tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote in message
> news:1156884458.692402.66660@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Chess One wrote:
in[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Actually, every native Spanish speaker I have conversed with has
> understood me quite well, and been quite complimentary. I got along
> especially well with Gabriel Velasco of Mexico City while translating
> his "Vida y Partidas de Carlos Torre."
> As far as Spain's Spanish is concerned, you may have a point. I was
> taught Spanish in the Latin American style, which is probably as
> different from Spain's Castellano as America's English is from
> England's. Then of course there's Catalan, quite different, and Basque,
> utterly different.
>
> ** this is so, evdiently you never had a girl friend from Andaluthia <g>


Andalus=EDa, with fields full of grain / I long to see you again and
again.
quote:

>
> The use of accents is a tad inconsistent and the spelling is off here
> and there, but it seems to make sense. I'm going to assume that in the
> 3rd line you meant "viva" rather than "aliva," and on the 10th line
> "sur" instead of "dur." My translation is not poetic but should be
> mostly accurate on meaning:
>
> porque lo bueno se acaba, Because good comes to an
> end
> y no dura como la maldad, And does not endure like
> evil
> Raza brava, Raza aliva Brave race, living race
> Raza india =BFDonde estas? Indian race, where are you?
> Me pregunto d=F3nde fueron, You asked me where they
> went
> si el futuro los devolver=E1 If the future will
> bring them back
> A qu=E9 otro mundo han partido, To what other world have
> they gone,
> raza Atl=E1ntida del sol. Atlantis' race of the
> sun.
> Cuatro esquinas de los Andes, Four corners of the Andes
> vientos del norte y del dur. Winds of the north and
> the south
> Porque las lineas de Nazca Because the lines of the
> Nazca
> no se dejan comprender. Cannot be understood
> Un messaje nos dejaron They left us a message
> que algun dia se sabr=E1 That will someday be
> known
> =BFQu=E9 misterios nos encerran? What mysteries confine us?
> =BFque verdades nos diran? What truths will they tell
> us?
>
> ** This is very good! It is a song performed by a group, Mujeres de la Pu=

na,
quote:

> and the translation is very similar:-
>
> Because what is good comes to an end,
> And does not, like evil, endure.
> Brave race, proud race,
> Indian race, where have you gone?
> I ask myself where they've gone,
> If the future will bring them back.
> To which other world have they departed.
> Atlantean race of the sun.
> Four corners of the Andes,
> Winds form the North and the South
> Why don't the lines at Nazca
> let themselves be understood.
> The lines have a message for us,
> which some day shall be known,
> what mysteries surround them.


In that case, I would suggest that you miscopied the penultimate
line, and that it should read "=BFQu=E9 misterios los encierran?", which
would give it the meaning indicated by this translation. Your
rendering, "=BFQu=E9 misterios nos encerran?", has a word ("encerran")
that afaik does not exist in Spanish, and "nos" means "us" as opposed
to "los" meaning "them."
quote:

> And I think this traditional song has what Lorca called, duende - though =

/la
quote:

> duende/ is little known, and has no English equivalent. All things good
> indeed, come to an end, while evil endures.


Hard to square that POV with the general trend of history, which does
seem to indicate overall if intermittent progress toward improvement.
Or are you explaining your continued presence here on rgcp?!

Vince Hart

2006-08-30, 7:35 pm


The Historian wrote:
quote:

> I've had to amend The Innes Pledge slightly. I had forgotten his
> business associate Robtroll.
>
> "I pledge not to respond to the newsgroup postings and email of Philip
> Keith Innes or Robert Mitchell, even if they are addressed to me, or I
> am the subject of
> them."
>
> Neil Brennen


I have not formally taken the pledge, although Phil's citation of Sam's
fantasies as fact has raised his claim to "standards" to a level of
absurdity so high that I cannot think of any comment that would do it
justice.

Chess One

2006-08-30, 7:35 pm


"Taylor Kingston" <tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote in message
news:1156890339.934510.100230@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
quote:

> ** this is so, evdiently you never had a girl friend from Andaluthia <g>


Andalusía, with fields full of grain / I long to see you again and
again.

***
where is paradise,
my shadow, you that were there?
a silent question

cities without answers
rivers without speech, peaks
without echoes, nute seas

no one knows...

--------
ay ay ay ay!
Take this broken-waisted waltz

said Lorca.


In that case, I would suggest that you miscopied the penultimate
line, and that it should read "¿Qué misterios los encierran?", which
would give it the meaning indicated by this translation. Your
rendering, "¿Qué misterios nos encerran?", has a word ("encerran")
that afaik does not exist in Spanish, and "nos" means "us" as opposed
to "los" meaning "them."

***
it is not Spanish, it is Andean as might be supposed from the title, and is
what language they took to themselves for themselves, not to thee, and not
to thy understanding
quote:

> And I think this traditional song has what Lorca called, duende - though
> /la
> duende/ is little known, and has no English equivalent. All things good
> indeed, come to an end, while evil endures.


Hard to square that POV with the general trend of history, which does
seem to indicate overall if intermittent progress toward improvement.

***
it is always difficult to admit the value of what is known to what is
unknown
as if we really had a preference, even knowing that the unknown is
unknowable
are our values changed?

Or are you explaining your continued presence here on rgcp?!

***
its a show about
my neighbor in a loneliness, a light,
walking the hour when every bed is a mouth,
alleys of dark trash, exhaustion
shaped into residences -- and what are the dogs
so sure of that they shout like citizens
driven from their minds in a stadium?

in his fist he holds a note
in his own handwriting,
the same message everyone carries
from place to place in the secret night,
the one that nobody asks you for
when you finally arrive, and the faces
turn to you playing the national anthem
and go blank, that's
what the show is about, that message.

Phil


Taylor Kingston

2006-08-30, 7:35 pm


Chess One wrote:
quote:

> "Taylor Kingston" <tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote in message
> In that case, I would suggest that you miscopied the penultimate
> line, and that it should read "=BFQu=E9 misterios los encierran?", which
> would give it the meaning indicated by this translation. Your
> rendering, "=BFQu=E9 misterios nos encerran?", has a word ("encerran")
> that afaik does not exist in Spanish, and "nos" means "us" as opposed
> to "los" meaning "them."
>
> ***
> it is not Spanish, it is Andean as might be supposed from the title, and =

is
quote:

> what language they took to themselves for themselves, not to thee, and not
> to thy understanding


Really, now. So "Andean" is now a language, not just a geographical
or geological designation? Suuure. I expect now you'll tell us about
the Saharan or Alpine language too.
Phil, when are you going to learn not to pretend an expertise you
don't possess? It only makes you look silly. It's Spanish, plain and
simple. I listened to the song itself, as
anyone can here:

http://tinyurl.com/oj48k

You simply miscopied the lyrics, or copied someone who miscopied
them. They clearly say "=BFQu=E9 misterios los encierran?", perfectly
pronounced, perfectly grammatical Spanish, as anyone who actually
speaks the language can tell, not your garbled "=BFQu=E9 misterios nos
encerran?".
Oh, and by the way, this was not "performed by a group, Mujeres de la
Puna," as you claimed. The song, "Nazca," is on an album titled
"Mujeres de la Puna," but the group is named Viva Quetzal, as can be
easily verified here:

http://www.vivaquetzal.com/music.htm

Poor Phil -- can't you get *_anything_* right? But go ahead, keep
trying to cover your tracks by shoveling manure over them, as you so
often do. It keeps us entertained.

Chess One

2006-08-30, 7:35 pm


"Taylor Kingston" <tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote in message
news:1156969359.159027.312560@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Chess One wrote:
quote:

> "Taylor Kingston" <tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote in message
> In that case, I would suggest that you miscopied the penultimate
> line, and that it should read "¿Qué misterios los encierran?", which
> would give it the meaning indicated by this translation. Your
> rendering, "¿Qué misterios nos encerran?", has a word ("encerran")
> that afaik does not exist in Spanish, and "nos" means "us" as opposed
> to "los" meaning "them."
>
> ***
> it is not Spanish, it is Andean as might be supposed from the title, and
> is
> what language they took to themselves for themselves, not to thee, and not
> to thy understanding


Really, now. So "Andean" is now a language,

****Taylor, I am half-packed and out the door - spare me your understanding
if Andean is a version of the Spanish language, which I never wrote, but
that Andeans speak the Spanish that is to their liking. Should one need to
point this out to an adult? Or will you bugger every issue? Taking every
opportunity to suppose negatively for other people
quote:

> not just a geographical

or geological designation? Suuure. I expect now you'll tell us about
the Saharan or Alpine language too.

You are as inventive as usual. Now you have me inventing Saharan etc, it is
not a respectable way to have a discussion.

Phil, when are you going to learn not to pretend an expertise you
don't possess? It only makes you look silly. It's Spanish, plain and
simple. I listened to the song itself, as
anyone can here:

http://tinyurl.com/oj48k

You simply miscopied the lyrics, or copied someone who miscopied
them. They clearly say "¿Qué misterios los encierran?", perfectly
pronounced, perfectly grammatical Spanish, as anyone who actually
speaks the language can tell, not your garbled "¿Qué misterios nos
encerran?".

*****You may have noticed elsewhere that I challenged you more
specifically - not to some contest in a newsgroup to your vast knowledge of
Spanish, but to specifics of more pertinent things to chess. And if these
Andeans chose to write Encierran, and this is also not to your liking,
please don't go on about it, as if to someone else's expencse, unless people
confirm their opinion of you as trite, wrong and utterly petty. To innocent
folks reading this, Kingston is now arguing with the sleave notes [triple
checked] on how people should have said their Spanish.


Oh, and by the way, this was not "performed by a group, Mujeres de la
Puna," as you claimed. The song, "Nazca," is on an album titled
"Mujeres de la Puna," but the group is named Viva Quetzal, as can be
easily verified here:

http://www.vivaquetzal.com/music.htm

Poor Phil -- can't you get *_anything_* right?

****Yes it is Quetzal. And the name is the name of the Album not the group.
And I was at their concert too

But go ahead, keep
trying to cover your tracks by shoveling manure over them, as you so
often do. It keeps us entertained.

****I currently offer to sue you for damages. I shall not be amused at your
attitude of suggesting that others are 'covering their tracks' on any issue
when a simple mistake is made, compared with your campaign. In fact I take
note of your attitude on things you wish to volunteer that you previously
never knew.

Perhaps you will want to adjust your opinion after speaking with your
family, since I shall not care whose loss you suffer, since you show not the
slightest sign of caring for anyone else.

Is that clear enough? If not, I will resolve it to spectacular clarity
elsewhere.

PI


The Historian

2006-08-30, 11:34 pm


Taylor Kingston wrote:
quote:

> Chess One wrote:
d is[vbcol=seagreen]
not[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Really, now. So "Andean" is now a language, not just a geographical
> or geological designation? Suuure. I expect now you'll tell us about
> the Saharan or Alpine language too.


He's already shared his wisdom on the "British language":

**************
Some people indeed have speculated that the Author spoke the British
language; drawing on roots which were Anglo Norman, and surviving Anglo
Saxon, and even older words of p-Celtic. He certainly drew on a Celtic
mytholog for many dramatic ideas.

Bootne, Phil Innes
****************

And here's my favorite comment on Mr. Innes' skill in languages:

"=2E..Mr. Innes is certainly a
linguist of remarkable originality. As a sample (or perhaps a campel),
he has discovered that Old English was still spoken as late as the
1800s
(which for some reason he takes to be the seventeenth century) and
indeed that the tongue is *still* spoken, a result that would astonish
professional linguists -- the sane ones, at any rate. Moreover, he has
unearthed bits of the Latin lexicon of which Latinists were unaware --
e=2Eg., "secuter."

"Turning to modern languages, Mr. Innes has discerned grammatical
features of which nobody else was aware in several modern tongues. For
instance, he has discovered that English possesses a "negative case" --
it is evidently what grammarians formerly called a "double negative" --
and that the Russian first-person accusative and dative pronouns are
identical, a fact that would surprise speakers of the language. He has
also found that the verbs "love" and "leave" in Russian are identical,
so that the surly exhortation "Love it or leave it" can be rendered in
Russian without changing the verb in the second clause. Finally, he
has
enriched the lexicon of modern English immeasurably with neologisms
like
"clacque," "dillitantes," "insistance," "come" as a conjunction (in
locutions like "poet come playwright"), and many others."

The Historian

2006-08-30, 11:34 pm


Vince Hart wrote:
quote:

> The Historian wrote:
>
> I have not formally taken the pledge, although Phil's citation of Sam's
> fantasies as fact has raised his claim to "standards" to a level of
> absurdity so high that I cannot think of any comment that would do it
> justice.


But Vince, that is a standard, of a sort. True, a reputation for
falsehood isn't a standard a journalist should strive for in his
published work, but Mr. Innes is very different from the rest of us.

Rob

2006-08-30, 11:34 pm


The Historian wrote:
quote:

> Taylor Kingston wrote:
ich[vbcol=seagreen]
and is[vbcol=seagreen]
d not[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> He's already shared his wisdom on the "British language":
>
> **************
> Some people indeed have speculated that the Author spoke the British
> language; drawing on roots which were Anglo Norman, and surviving Anglo
> Saxon, and even older words of p-Celtic. He certainly drew on a Celtic
> mytholog for many dramatic ideas.
>
> Bootne, Phil Innes
> ****************
>
> And here's my favorite comment on Mr. Innes' skill in languages:
>
> "...Mr. Innes is certainly a
> linguist of remarkable originality. As a sample (or perhaps a campel),
> he has discovered that Old English was still spoken as late as the
> 1800s
> (which for some reason he takes to be the seventeenth century) and
> indeed that the tongue is *still* spoken, a result that would astonish
> professional linguists -- the sane ones, at any rate. Moreover, he has
> unearthed bits of the Latin lexicon of which Latinists were unaware --
> e.g., "secuter."
>
> "Turning to modern languages, Mr. Innes has discerned grammatical
> features of which nobody else was aware in several modern tongues. For
> instance, he has discovered that English possesses a "negative case" --
> it is evidently what grammarians formerly called a "double negative" --
> and that the Russian first-person accusative and dative pronouns are
> identical, a fact that would surprise speakers of the language. He has
> also found that the verbs "love" and "leave" in Russian are identical,
> so that the surly exhortation "Love it or leave it" can be rendered in
> Russian without changing the verb in the second clause. Finally, he
> has
> enriched the lexicon of modern English immeasurably with neologisms
> like
> "clacque," "dillitantes," "insistance," "come" as a conjunction (in
> locutions like "poet come playwright"), and many others."

Brennen stalks Phil Innes yet again, beraking his own pledge. All see
you for what you are Neil. Go back and talk with Zed.

Chess One

2006-08-31, 7:35 pm


"Rob" <robmtchl@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1156991662.983918.11910@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

The Historian wrote:
quote:

> Taylor Kingston wrote:
>
> He's already shared his wisdom on the "British language":


I'm not sure how this message will arrive, and might need a relay --

But let me correct what both liars already know but continue to misrepresent
here. First of all there is liar Kingston who didn't like the way Andeans
spelled their Spanish, so has to suggest that I would invent new languages
to appease him. Kingston now needs no more excuse that his own spite to
write shit about people. But I will deal with him properly when I return
since he seems to have accused me of lying on 3 more pertinent issues to do
with chess - but I think thses issues cannot be resolved here, since he is
so very shy of speaking straight, and even speaking true.

Then his fellow ad hom abuser Brennan should explain to the people who it
was who began to re-use the word British in relation to the inhabitants of
the Island. He should also say if in fact all the answers to his 'questions'
have already been provided him, since otherwise he deliberately attempts to
misrepresent another person, and, as with Kingston, I would question the
malice evident in his statement in a place where he would have to put up or
shut up.

----------------
No no! not Blake but Shakespoke himself reintroduced the term Britain and
British! Perhaps Brennan does not need knowledge either - its just enough to
exclaim at everything he doesn't know. This presumably is the new standard
for American historical writing?
quote:

> **************
> Some people indeed have speculated that the Author spoke the British
> language; drawing on roots which were Anglo Norman, and surviving Anglo
> Saxon, and even older words of p-Celtic. He certainly drew on a Celtic
> mytholog for many dramatic ideas.


Next test for Brennan is to tell you all who was Shakespeare's tutor, and
what his first language was? And what was that person's tradition. If that's
too hard a Price <--hint

to pay then he could trace Lear all the way to Lyr, the same story as in the
Mabinogion &c.

After 5 years of correcting this stalking clown multiple times - he
deliberately takes no note of it. He still does not understand what I wrote
above - and he doesn't care to.
quote:

> Bootne, Phil Innes
> ****************
>
> And here's my favorite comment on Mr. Innes' skill in languages:
>
> "...Mr. Innes is certainly a
> linguist of remarkable originality. As a sample (or perhaps a campel),
> he has discovered that Old English was still spoken as late as the
> 1800s
> (which for some reason he takes to be the seventeenth century) and
> indeed that the tongue is *still* spoken,


Brennan seems blithely unaware of the fact that even the words Old and
English are Old English!
quote:

> a result that would astonish
> professional linguists -- the sane ones, at any rate. Moreover, he has
> unearthed bits of the Latin lexicon of which Latinists were unaware --
> e.g., "secuter."


Brennan once more does not observe nor acknowledge the joke, written many
times, that this 'secuter' followed 'a cutting remark'. But for all I know
he actually doesn't understand even simpler words, like 'pun'.
quote:

> "Turning to modern languages, Mr. Innes has discerned grammatical
> features of which nobody else was aware in several modern tongues. For
> instance, he has discovered that English possesses a "negative case" --


As above, this was a comment on the logic of a presentation, not case
endings in English - a subject well-explained to Brennan whose choses not to
notice it or that other thing, is too thick to understand the difference.
But I don't think he is really thick - he deliberately lies.
quote:

> it is evidently what grammarians formerly called a "double negative" --
> and that the Russian first-person accusative and dative pronouns are
> identical, a fact that would surprise speakers of the language. He has
> also found that the verbs "love" and "leave" in Russian are identical,


Brennan's friend, a mathematician takes issue with the sleave notes to the
poet Blok, in some music by Shostakovitch and insists they are wrong! There
is only one interpretation of poetry, and the translator is wrong! Not that
Brennan could determine the issue either way. The only thing you can be sure
of is that whatever he says is bent out of shape, and deliberately
misrepresents others on a scale that even Louis Blair would blanch at.
quote:

> so that the surly exhortation "Love it or leave it" can be rendered in
> Russian without changing the verb in the second clause. Finally, he
> has
> enriched the lexicon of modern English immeasurably with neologisms
> like
> "clacque," "dillitantes," "insistance," "come" as a conjunction (in
> locutions like "poet come playwright"), and many others."


Brennan would certainly hate Orwell too, since he insisted that garage be
spelled as it is said, 'garridge'. Schocking, no? <--joke

Whether its a bovine intelligence which makes him a moo-ron, or the more
straightforward hatred of people who know things he don't, is a philosophic
question called 'the pathetic fallacy', since the answer may not be either
one, but both.

Phil Innes
--------
Brennen stalks Phil Innes yet again, beraking his own pledge. All see
you for what you are Neil. Go back and talk with Zed.


Taylor Kingston

2006-08-31, 7:35 pm


The Historian wrote:
quote:

> Taylor Kingston wrote:
ich[vbcol=seagreen]
and is[vbcol=seagreen]
d not[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> He's already shared his wisdom on the "British language":
>
> **************
> Some people indeed have speculated that the Author spoke the British
> language; drawing on roots which were Anglo Norman, and surviving Anglo
> Saxon, and even older words of p-Celtic. He certainly drew on a Celtic
> mytholog for many dramatic ideas.
>
> Bootne, Phil Innes
> ****************
>
> And here's my favorite comment on Mr. Innes' skill in languages:
>
> "...Mr. Innes is certainly a
> linguist of remarkable originality. As a sample (or perhaps a campel),
> he has discovered that Old English was still spoken as late as the
> 1800s


Yes, and now to that dazzling philological discovery we can add the
claim that such sentences as "lo bueno se acaba," "me pregunto donde
fueron," and "no se dejan comprender" are "not Spanish, [but] Andean."
I wonder what other hitherto unknown languages await Phil's learned
attention. Himalayan? Balkan? Rocky Canadian? Mediterranean?
Subterranean! Perhaps I've spoken San Diegan all my life without
realizing it!
quote:

> (which for some reason he takes to be the seventeenth century) and
> indeed that the tongue is *still* spoken, a result that would astonish
> professional linguists -- the sane ones, at any rate. Moreover, he has
> unearthed bits of the Latin lexicon of which Latinists were unaware --
> e.g., "secuter."
>
> "Turning to modern languages, Mr. Innes has discerned grammatical
> features of which nobody else was aware in several modern tongues. For
> instance, he has discovered that English possesses a "negative case" --
> it is evidently what grammarians formerly called a "double negative" --
> and that the Russian first-person accusative and dative pronouns are
> identical, a fact that would surprise speakers of the language. He has
> also found that the verbs "love" and "leave" in Russian are identical,
> so that the surly exhortation "Love it or leave it" can be rendered in
> Russian without changing the verb in the second clause. Finally, he
> has
> enriched the lexicon of modern English immeasurably with neologisms
> like
> "clacque," "dillitantes," "insistance," "come" as a conjunction (in
> locutions like "poet come playwright"), and many others."


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