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Deliverance from Cross-To-Bear
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| parrthenon@cs.com 2005-04-07, 6:09 pm |
| THE SPIN CONTINUES
<USCF President Beatriz Marinello moved from Florida to New York in
order to VOLUNTEER [emphasis mine] as Chief Operating Officer after
Bill Goichberg resigned as Executive Director, spending two to three
days a week in New Windsor, or Crossville, wherever she is needed.>
CHESS LIFE April 2005, page 12.
The essential difference between the current suppression of financial
information and earlier secrecy is that Randy Bauer has brought the
political scourge of spin to the debate, along with palpable lies.
After weeks of hectoring, the politicians finally felt obliged
to release NOT the suppressed cost estimates of the move to
Cross-to-Bear but a brief recital of what has been spent so far
($201,000) with no indication of what further spending will occur and
no record of what has yet to be included in the moving costs.
The spin attached to this release of information is that the
move is just slightly over the estimated cost of $150,000 to $200,000
-- an estimate offered as a personal approximation by Randy Bauer.
The truth is that the move is far from complete, and there are
bills still outstanding.
Take the small, new building in Cross-to-Bear. The first cost
figures that came to us were between $300,000 to $350,000, but the
Board majority is now very quiet on this subject, except to admit
through an office employee that no general contractor has been
appointed and that there are no real costings available. (That's due
diligence with a vengeance, all right.)
But one Board member quoted $110 per square foot as a possible
figure, putting the finished cost at about $550,000, though there would
be further fees and expenses yet to come. An insider told me $650,000
is considered possible and a still higher figure may yet be the final
one.
The Federation sold a 12,000 square foot -- if memory serves --
building in New Windsor for $515,000, though the final amount coming to
the Federation from the sale is unclear. There will likely be a loss
on the less than 5,000 square foot building in Cross-to-Bear of between
$150,000 to $250,000. This figure will balloon if the Federation needs
further space by having to add a wing or undertake erecting a econd
structure. Further, rental income in New Windsor of excess space
yields to paying for storage in Cross-to-Bear.
We don't know whether the fee of architect Phil Elmore, which
appears to be either $45,000 or possibly still $60,000 (stories vary
among the Board majority)is included in the moving expenses to
Cross-to-Bear.
The likes of Honest Randy Bauer and other members of the Board
majority will not answer the following questions:
1. Is Harry Sabine a friend of Phil Elmore,
the $60,000 man?
2. Did Mr. Sabine vet the original contract
with the large fee overrun?
3. Did Mr. Sabine keep his big bazoo shut to
help a friend and to injure the USCF?
4. If the answer to No. 3 is yes, has the
Board majority sought recourse with the Tennesse State
Bar Association? Are their plans to begin legal
action against Mr. Sabine?
5. Has a new contract been signed by both
parties with Famished Phil Elmore?
6. Was Randy Bauer telling the truth when he
wrote recently that Famished Phil was "receptive" to
renegotiation, suggesting that a new contract has not
yet been signed?
7. Has the new contract been vetted by Harry Sabine?
Another issue remains whether USCF President Beatriz
Marinello's annualized "expenses" of $60,000 is included among the
costs of the move to
Cross-to-Bear. Did the Board grant the $30,000 for six months to Mrs.
Marinello, or does she draw on a fund as she pays for these famous
plane tickets between New York or Florida and Cross-to-Bear? When will
we see an accounting of her expenditures as required by delegates'
mandate?
The USCF is leaving the center of chess in New York for the
middle of nowhere in the Cumberland mountains. It is leaving a large
building for a structure yet to be built that will be about 40% the
size of the New Windsor facility.
We are told that in this Internet age, it makes no difference
where an office is located, which is nonsense. But such is the
argument. Top-notch chess and marketing people, we are told, will love
to live in Cross-to-Bear. The executive director will also live there,
and he will fly regularly to New York, perhaps, to seek sponsorship and
represent chess in its center. That won't happen, of course. The ED
will be in the office in the middle of nowhere.
I think the opportunity costs of this move to Deliverance
country will be enormous in the coming years. We can only hope the move
will yet be undone, so long as the new headquarters have not yet been
built.
| |
| Tom Klem 2005-04-07, 6:09 pm |
| Goodness Larry, that's an interesting discourse.
Where do you get this stuff from? For example a cursory reading of your
posting suggests that the USCF lives and dies by "getting sponsorship" from
the center of the Chess world, New York (hint: Moscow, Russia has more
members in its Chess club, than the entire USCF).
And, how exactly does Chess need representing in the chess center of the
World? Do we have to vote at the Marshall Chess Club, or make quorum calls
at Sam Sloans cab stand in order to keep deep throat from cutting his own
throat and our funding?
Your seven points are fairly inflated as well. Really, what difference does
it make if Phil Elmore is a friend of Harry Sabine? In the first place, you
have to know that in a town the size of Crossville, there are such things as
the Kiwanis, Elks (BPOE), the Rod and Gun Club, and probably a chapter of
the Rose Society. Do you think these people living in a lovely rural
environement pass each other numbly on the streets like they do in New York,
where looking at someone ... just looking at them, can draw fire from real
guns or stabbing with pointy implements?
And what's all this stuff about vetting??? When can you tell me please, has
anything USCFian been exposed to forethought and deep planning. And for that
matter, who would the plans of the USCF be "vetted" to? President Bartlett?
Oh excuse me, he's the president in an alternate reality TV series.
Isn't it really true that the folks you vett your articles with, have great
disdain for the bucolic circumstances of the Cumberland Gap, and heaven
forbid, are upset because they will no longer have their own private set of
keys and alarm codes?
Let's just see how the membership does under the new regime. Away from the
distractions and private use of the facility for personal gains (contracting
our workers on company time for private publishing and marketing ventures,
for example), I have a feeling that within one to two years after the dust
settles, the ratings, office computing, and internet upgrades succeed, we
will have what we truly need: a membership organization that actually
services the members and not the cronies you think everything should have
been vetted for; a membership organization that actually gets the ratings
into the computer on time; delivers the mail to the committees in timely and
properly presented fashion; and, probably best of all, a set of books
regularly balanced to the penny; accurate and true by the competent
citizenry of The Cumberland Gap.
I should think we've had just enough of what we know of "vetting". All the
vetting in the world didn't prevent Don Schultz and Bill Goichberg from
gutting the USCF LMA.
I wonder what those two would be doing right now, if they were vetting
something from the USCF. Or is that getting something from the USCF?
Tom Klem
<parrthenon@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1112858041.874857.241910@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
quote:
> THE SPIN CONTINUES
>
> <USCF President Beatriz Marinello moved from Florida to New York in
> order to VOLUNTEER [emphasis mine] as Chief Operating Officer after
> Bill Goichberg resigned as Executive Director, spending two to three
> days a week in New Windsor, or Crossville, wherever she is needed.>
> CHESS LIFE April 2005, page 12.
>
> The essential difference between the current suppression of financial
> information and earlier secrecy is that Randy Bauer has brought the
> political scourge of spin to the debate, along with palpable lies.
>
> After weeks of hectoring, the politicians finally felt obliged
> to release NOT the suppressed cost estimates of the move to
> Cross-to-Bear but a brief recital of what has been spent so far
> ($201,000) with no indication of what further spending will occur and
> no record of what has yet to be included in the moving costs.
>
> The spin attached to this release of information is that the
> move is just slightly over the estimated cost of $150,000 to $200,000
> -- an estimate offered as a personal approximation by Randy Bauer.
>
> The truth is that the move is far from complete, and there are
> bills still outstanding.
>
> Take the small, new building in Cross-to-Bear. The first cost
> figures that came to us were between $300,000 to $350,000, but the
> Board majority is now very quiet on this subject, except to admit
> through an office employee that no general contractor has been
> appointed and that there are no real costings available. (That's due
> diligence with a vengeance, all right.)
>
> But one Board member quoted $110 per square foot as a possible
> figure, putting the finished cost at about $550,000, though there would
> be further fees and expenses yet to come. An insider told me $650,000
> is considered possible and a still higher figure may yet be the final
> one.
>
> The Federation sold a 12,000 square foot -- if memory serves --
> building in New Windsor for $515,000, though the final amount coming to
> the Federation from the sale is unclear. There will likely be a loss
> on the less than 5,000 square foot building in Cross-to-Bear of between
> $150,000 to $250,000. This figure will balloon if the Federation needs
> further space by having to add a wing or undertake erecting a econd
> structure. Further, rental income in New Windsor of excess space
> yields to paying for storage in Cross-to-Bear.
>
> We don't know whether the fee of architect Phil Elmore, which
> appears to be either $45,000 or possibly still $60,000 (stories vary
> among the Board majority)is included in the moving expenses to
> Cross-to-Bear.
>
> The likes of Honest Randy Bauer and other members of the Board
> majority will not answer the following questions:
>
> 1. Is Harry Sabine a friend of Phil Elmore,
> the $60,000 man?
>
> 2. Did Mr. Sabine vet the original contract
> with the large fee overrun?
>
> 3. Did Mr. Sabine keep his big bazoo shut to
> help a friend and to injure the USCF?
>
> 4. If the answer to No. 3 is yes, has the
> Board majority sought recourse with the Tennesse State
> Bar Association? Are their plans to begin legal
> action against Mr. Sabine?
>
> 5. Has a new contract been signed by both
> parties with Famished Phil Elmore?
>
> 6. Was Randy Bauer telling the truth when he
> wrote recently that Famished Phil was "receptive" to
> renegotiation, suggesting that a new contract has not
> yet been signed?
>
> 7. Has the new contract been vetted by Harry Sabine?
>
> Another issue remains whether USCF President Beatriz
> Marinello's annualized "expenses" of $60,000 is included among the
> costs of the move to
> Cross-to-Bear. Did the Board grant the $30,000 for six months to Mrs.
> Marinello, or does she draw on a fund as she pays for these famous
> plane tickets between New York or Florida and Cross-to-Bear? When will
> we see an accounting of her expenditures as required by delegates'
> mandate?
>
> The USCF is leaving the center of chess in New York for the
> middle of nowhere in the Cumberland mountains. It is leaving a large
> building for a structure yet to be built that will be about 40% the
> size of the New Windsor facility.
>
> We are told that in this Internet age, it makes no difference
> where an office is located, which is nonsense. But such is the
> argument. Top-notch chess and marketing people, we are told, will love
> to live in Cross-to-Bear. The executive director will also live there,
> and he will fly regularly to New York, perhaps, to seek sponsorship and
> represent chess in its center. That won't happen, of course. The ED
> will be in the office in the middle of nowhere.
>
> I think the opportunity costs of this move to Deliverance
> country will be enormous in the coming years. We can only hope the move
> will yet be undone, so long as the new headquarters have not yet been
> built.
>
| |
| Chess One 2005-04-07, 6:09 pm |
|
"Tom Klem" <thewiz@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:eS65e.92828$AN1.48489@fed1read03...
quote:
> Goodness Larry, that's an interesting discourse.
>
> Where do you get this stuff from? For example a cursory reading of your
> posting suggests that the USCF lives and dies by "getting sponsorship"
> from
> the center of the Chess world, New York (hint: Moscow, Russia has more
> members in its Chess club, than the entire USCF).
This was also the /potential/ of USCF. Big Metro region of NY city primes
the national pump. Perhaps it is a moot point, since USCF ignored that
potential.
quote:
> And, how exactly does Chess need representing in the chess center of the
> World? Do we have to vote at the Marshall Chess Club, or make quorum calls
> at Sam Sloans cab stand in order to keep deep throat from cutting his own
> throat and our funding?
Another moot point. there are no sponsors - haven't been any for yonks. But
if you did want sponsorship, surely NY City is the place?
quote:
> Your seven points are fairly inflated as well. Really, what difference
> does
> it make if Phil Elmore is a friend of Harry Sabine? In the first place,
> you
> have to know that in a town the size of Crossville, there are such things
> as
> the Kiwanis, Elks (BPOE), the Rod and Gun Club, and probably a chapter of
> the Rose Society. Do you think these people living in a lovely rural
> environement pass each other numbly on the streets like they do in New
> York,
> where looking at someone ... just looking at them, can draw fire from real
> guns or stabbing with pointy implements?
You mean we should get used to a little small-town action from the good ol'
boys, as a suitable modus for the national organisation?
quote:
> And what's all this stuff about vetting??? When can you tell me please,
> has
> anything USCFian been exposed to forethought and deep planning. And for
> that
> matter, who would the plans of the USCF be "vetted" to? President
> Bartlett?
> Oh excuse me, he's the president in an alternate reality TV series.
Disaster as usual is no reason to complain? Surely an independent agent
could vet expenditure which is about a quarter million for the move to a
temporary place, then an unknown amount to remove, then what, another
half-million for the new joint. Would you allow three quarters of a million
dollars to go unreceipted? With no up-front budget, normal comparisons, nor
milestone checks? While spending other people's money - where do you think
you are, Enron?
quote:
> Isn't it really true that the folks you vett your articles with, have
> great
> disdain for the bucolic circumstances of the Cumberland Gap, and heaven
> forbid, are upset because they will no longer have their own private set
> of
> keys and alarm codes?
>
> Let's just see how the membership does under the new regime. Away from the
> distractions and private use of the facility for personal gains
> (contracting
> our workers on company time for private publishing and marketing ventures,
> for example), I have a feeling that within one to two years after the dust
> settles, the ratings, office computing, and internet upgrades succeed, we
> will have what we truly need: a membership organization that actually
> services the members and not the cronies you think everything should have
> been vetted for; a membership organization that actually gets the ratings
> into the computer on time; delivers the mail to the committees in timely
> and
> properly presented fashion; and, probably best of all, a set of books
> regularly balanced to the penny; accurate and true by the competent
> citizenry of The Cumberland Gap.
Not bad. Essentially Tom, you have cited the only function that another
person wrote here, the ratings service - and while I agree that it is a
necessary function at USCF, and that it should run more efficiently than
now - the cost of achieving this can't really be less than 3/4million,
<right?>
I personally wonder what else will be had for the money.
quote:
> I should think we've had just enough of what we know of "vetting". All the
> vetting in the world didn't prevent Don Schultz and Bill Goichberg from
> gutting the USCF LMA.
>
> I wonder what those two would be doing right now, if they were vetting
> something from the USCF. Or is that getting something from the USCF?
I suppose by making your own worst-case scenario equivalent with the current
tribe's activities, you answer your own question.
Cordially, Phil Innes
quote:
> Tom Klem
>
>
>
> <parrthenon@cs.com> wrote in message
> news:1112858041.874857.241910@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
| |
| Grant Perks 2005-04-07, 6:09 pm |
| parrthenon@cs.com wrote:
quote:
> THE SPIN CONTINUES
>
> <USCF President Beatriz Marinello moved from Florida to New York in
> order to VOLUNTEER [emphasis mine] as Chief Operating Officer after
> Bill Goichberg resigned as Executive Director, spending two to three
> days a week in New Windsor, or Crossville, wherever she is needed.>
> CHESS LIFE April 2005, page 12.
>
> The essential difference between the current suppression of
financial
quote:
> information and earlier secrecy is that Randy Bauer has brought the
> political scourge of spin to the debate, along with palpable lies.
>
> After weeks of hectoring, the politicians finally felt
obliged
quote:
> to release NOT the suppressed cost estimates of the move to
> Cross-to-Bear but a brief recital of what has been spent so far
> ($201,000) with no indication of what further spending will occur and
> no record of what has yet to be included in the moving costs.
The $201,000 is not what has been spent so far, it is an estimate of
what the move will cost. Anything more detailed would have listed each
check written.
quote:
> The spin attached to this release of information is that the
> move is just slightly over the estimated cost of $150,000 to $200,000
> -- an estimate offered as a personal approximation by Randy Bauer.
>
> The truth is that the move is far from complete, and there are
> bills still outstanding.
>
> Take the small, new building in Cross-to-Bear. The first cost
> figures that came to us were between $300,000 to $350,000, but the
> Board majority is now very quiet on this subject, except to admit
> through an office employee that no general contractor has been
> appointed and that there are no real costings available. (That's due
> diligence with a vengeance, all right.)
>
> But one Board member quoted $110 per square foot as a
possible
quote:
> figure, putting the finished cost at about $550,000, though there
would
quote:
> be further fees and expenses yet to come. An insider told me $650,000
> is considered possible and a still higher figure may yet be the final
> one.
>
I personally think there are some corners to be cut that will reduce
the total cost. Whether those corners are cut is up to the board.
quote:
> The Federation sold a 12,000 square foot -- if memory serves
--
quote:
> building in New Windsor for $515,000, though the final amount coming
to
quote:
> the Federation from the sale is unclear. There will likely be a loss
> on the less than 5,000 square foot building in Cross-to-Bear of
between
quote:
> $150,000 to $250,000. This figure will balloon if the Federation
needs
quote:
> further space by having to add a wing or undertake erecting a econd
> structure. Further, rental income in New Windsor of excess space
> yields to paying for storage in Cross-to-Bear.
>
As I recall, the building in New Windsor was 6,000 square foot, with a
6,000 square foot basement. I remember being in New Windsor when it
rained, one employee had to build a tent over his desk to keep the rain
water from frying his computer. The other employees were a bit more
fortunate, they just needed to get mulitiple buckets to place around
their desk. The carpet was patched in various spots with duct tape. A
great work environ.
Fixing the roof, new HVAC, repairing the parking lot, new carpet,
paving new parking areas, etc would have cost at least $100,000.
quote:
> We don't know whether the fee of architect Phil Elmore, which
> appears to be either $45,000 or possibly still $60,000 (stories vary
> among the Board majority)is included in the moving expenses to
> Cross-to-Bear.
>
> The likes of Honest Randy Bauer and other members of the
Board
quote:
> majority will not answer the following questions:
>
> 1. Is Harry Sabine a friend of Phil Elmore,
> the $60,000 man?
>
No they aren't friends.
quote:
> 2. Did Mr. Sabine vet the original contract
> with the large fee overrun?
>
The original contract was based on a much bigger building that included
the Books and Equipment business.
quote:
> 3. Did Mr. Sabine keep his big bazoo shut to
> help a friend and to injure the USCF?
>
The architects contract is AIA boilerplate. Not much to comment on with
regard to a legal review.
quote:
> 4. If the answer to No. 3 is yes, has the
> Board majority sought recourse with the Tennesse State
> Bar Association? Are their plans to begin legal
> action against Mr. Sabine?
>
> 5. Has a new contract been signed by both
> parties with Famished Phil Elmore?
>
> 6. Was Randy Bauer telling the truth when he
> wrote recently that Famished Phil was "receptive" to
> renegotiation, suggesting that a new contract has not
> yet been signed?
>
> 7. Has the new contract been vetted by Harry Sabine?
>
> Another issue remains whether USCF President Beatriz
> Marinello's annualized "expenses" of $60,000 is included among the
> costs of the move to
> Cross-to-Bear. Did the Board grant the $30,000 for six months to
Mrs.
quote:
> Marinello, or does she draw on a fund as she pays for these famous
> plane tickets between New York or Florida and Cross-to-Bear? When
will
quote:
> we see an accounting of her expenditures as required by delegates'
> mandate?
>
You will see them with the delegates' call.
quote:
> The USCF is leaving the center of chess in New York for the
> middle of nowhere in the Cumberland mountains. It is leaving a large
> building for a structure yet to be built that will be about 40% the
> size of the New Windsor facility.
>
> We are told that in this Internet age, it makes no
difference
quote:
> where an office is located, which is nonsense. But such is the
> argument. Top-notch chess and marketing people, we are told, will
love
quote:
> to live in Cross-to-Bear. The executive director will also live
there,
quote:
> and he will fly regularly to New York, perhaps, to seek sponsorship
and
quote:
> represent chess in its center. That won't happen, of course. The ED
> will be in the office in the middle of nowhere.
>
> I think the opportunity costs of this move to Deliverance
> country will be enormous in the coming years. We can only hope the
move
quote:
> will yet be undone, so long as the new headquarters have not yet been
> built.
| |
| George John 2005-04-07, 6:09 pm |
| Grant Perks wrote:
Grant,
[SNIP]
quote:
> The $201,000 is not what has been spent so far, it is an estimate of
> what the move will cost. [SNIP]
Another point, which has been mentioned elsewhere, is this number
includes costs that would have occurred even if the USCF had not moved,
most notably the $30,868.71 for the new computer equipment. After
subtracting this number, your $201K figure is reduced to roughly $170K,
well within the $150K-$200K estimate we have already seen on rgcp.
[SNIP]
Best regards,
George John
| |
| chessdon@aol.com 2005-04-07, 6:09 pm |
| Grant Perks said: "The architects contract is AIA boilerplate. Not much
to comment on with
regard to a legal review."
Maybe so, but the absence of a formal legal review bothers me as does
the entire architect's contract.
As I read the contract, the architect won't represent the USCF to the
builder either in the choosing of the builder or conformance to local
building codes. The step to choose a builder is an important one
affecting quality, cost and inclusion of expansion needs. I would think
we would want additional storage space rather than continuing paying
$500 per month for 2,500 square feet of storage. iwould think we would
want that stored stuff (whatever it is) nearby.
I voted against signing the new contract with the architect simply
because of the absence of a signed legal sign off even though Grant
satisfied one of my concerns that our insurance covers us in the event
of liabilities caused by mistakes by the architecture - this is
important because the architect specifically removes any liability on
the his part whether or not there was negligence on his part and I find
that hard to accept as normal boilerplate..
But there is some good news and it is not that I got a deal on my car
insurance. The good news is that Randy Bauer almost cut it at the EB
meeting this past weekend. His positions on the candidates for the ED
job was brilliant. He analyzed all of them correctly. He was right on
virtually everything brought up. I thought for a minute that it was
Brady who was sitting across from me. I started to think that maybe I
should vote for this guy.
But then Randy blew it. Would you believe that Randy doesn't realize he
should bet ACC for basketball and Big Ten for Football. The man bet on
the Big Ten team, he even gave my ACC North Carolina team two points. I
will enjoy the wine he now owes me.
Don Schultz
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
| |
| Tom Klem 2005-04-07, 6:09 pm |
| Hi Phil,
You make several humorous points. I enjoy both your writing style, and your
intellect.
I think you have reached much the same conclusions as I, though you suffer
from the idea that something is being lost in this necessary
reorganizational step. One should examine with gusto, in my opinion, the
truly unique idea, that less is more. The USCF tried it the other way,
squandering both the Fischer boom, and the surge in scholastic memberships
called for by Denis Barry. Even Denis, at long last, was unfaithful to his
own discourse on the subject of how to acquire and retain new members---"a
child who beats an adult ... will be a member retained (rough paraphrase)"
(see: 1995 Annual Delegates or Report to the Delegates---I have forgotten
the exact name, though I have a copy of it out in the garage). In the end,
Denis caved to fashion, custom and Goichberg's cronies and vicious
destruction of competitors. Instead of embracing the very people who
embraced enthusiastically his ideas as presented in his report to the
delegates, he meekly went into the night and allowed them to be destroyed
for doing the very things which he had asked them to. So much for big USCF
politics and growth. A total failure.
There exists in the move to Crossville, not only new vistas, but new
opportunities to shake off the old and embrace the new. Service and
solitude, again in my humble opinion, make for a more friendly and decent
USCF.
As far as the sponsorship arguement you make below, you actually make my own
point rather handily, namely, there is no sponsorship. So, why endure the
costs and influences of New York City?
It is not the small town mentality that I am promoting here, though I truly
enjoy such places when I live in them. It is the idea that an organization
which follows its charter, doesn't eat its most active organizers because
the biggest organizer from a financial perspective says so, and produces
value and services rendered for monies received. That---is the idyllic charm
which we seek.
If this move costs three quarters of a million dollars, I would not be the
least bit surprised; and, I might add, that the consolidation of
efficiencies and economies of scale derived from such a move, if not
destroyed by the political forces gathering to devour the new born, will
more than justify the costs.
It is not that I wish to answer my own questions; but rather, only that they
be considered in the light of the disastrous fire and sulphur raining down
at the moment. Clouds of smoke and debri are rising from Mount Parthenon
daily, and should not pass for the only thoughts on the subject, in my
opinion.
Cordially,
Tom Klem
"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bp75e.654$Fm5.498@trndny09...
quote:
>
> "Tom Klem" <thewiz@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:eS65e.92828$AN1.48489@fed1read03...
>
>
> This was also the /potential/ of USCF. Big Metro region of NY city primes
> the national pump. Perhaps it is a moot point, since USCF ignored that
> potential.
>
calls[vbcol=seagreen]
own[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Another moot point. there are no sponsors - haven't been any for yonks.
But
quote:
> if you did want sponsorship, surely NY City is the place?
>
things[vbcol=seagreen]
of[vbcol=seagreen]
real[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> You mean we should get used to a little small-town action from the good
ol'
quote:
> boys, as a suitable modus for the national organisation?
>
>
> Disaster as usual is no reason to complain? Surely an independent agent
> could vet expenditure which is about a quarter million for the move to a
> temporary place, then an unknown amount to remove, then what, another
> half-million for the new joint. Would you allow three quarters of a
million
quote:
> dollars to go unreceipted? With no up-front budget, normal comparisons,
nor
quote:
> milestone checks? While spending other people's money - where do you think
> you are, Enron?
>
the[vbcol=seagreen]
ventures,[vbcol=seagreen]
dust[vbcol=seagreen]
we[vbcol=seagreen]
have[vbcol=seagreen]
ratings[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Not bad. Essentially Tom, you have cited the only function that another
> person wrote here, the ratings service - and while I agree that it is a
> necessary function at USCF, and that it should run more efficiently than
> now - the cost of achieving this can't really be less than 3/4million,
> <right?>
>
> I personally wonder what else will be had for the money.
>
the[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I suppose by making your own worst-case scenario equivalent with the
current
quote:
> tribe's activities, you answer your own question.
>
> Cordially, Phil Innes
>
>
>
>
| |
| Chess One 2005-04-07, 6:09 pm |
|
"Tom Klem" <thewiz@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:pTd5e.15$Xs.4@fed1read03...
quote:
> Hi Phil,
>
> You make several humorous points. I enjoy both your writing style, and
> your
> intellect.
Make up your mind Tom, which one?
quote:
> I think you have reached much the same conclusions as I, though you suffer
> from the idea that something is being lost in this necessary
> reorganizational step. One should examine with gusto, in my opinion, the
> truly unique idea, that less is more. The USCF tried it the other way,
> squandering both the Fischer boom, and the surge in scholastic memberships
> called for by Denis Barry. Even Denis, at long last, was unfaithful to his
> own discourse on the subject of how to acquire and retain new members---"a
> child who beats an adult ... will be a member retained (rough paraphrase)"
> (see: 1995 Annual Delegates or Report to the Delegates---I have forgotten
> the exact name, though I have a copy of it out in the garage). In the end,
> Denis caved to fashion, custom and Goichberg's cronies and vicious
> destruction of competitors. Instead of embracing the very people who
> embraced enthusiastically his ideas as presented in his report to the
> delegates, he meekly went into the night and allowed them to be destroyed
> for doing the very things which he had asked them to. So much for big USCF
> politics and growth. A total failure.
I'm catching your drift...
quote:
> There exists in the move to Crossville, not only new vistas, but new
> opportunities to shake off the old and embrace the new. Service and
> solitude, again in my humble opinion, make for a more friendly and decent
> USCF.
Slim-down, get-fit, boot-camp. You'll break Larry Parr's heart. In a
nutshell; ratings, print magazine to members, acquisition program for
juniors, outsource everything else.
quote:
> As far as the sponsorship arguement you make below, you actually make my
> own
> point rather handily, namely, there is no sponsorship. So, why endure the
> costs and influences of New York City?
Yes. If there is no intention to rock and roll then might as well move shop.
Proximity benefits to NY city always remained as unrealised potentials,
rather than actualities.
quote:
> It is not the small town mentality that I am promoting here, though I
> truly
> enjoy such places when I live in them.
I live in a town about the same size, 12,000. We have 4 nobel winners here -
well, 3 now, Saul Bellow just died. It might depend on the town. Several
towns away within 50 miles, are old brick-built mill towns that look like
film-sets for 1949 after the bomb went off. They are not 'quiet', they are
eerie!
quote:
> It is the idea that an organization
> which follows its charter, doesn't eat its most active organizers because
> the biggest organizer from a financial perspective says so, and produces
> value and services rendered for monies received. That---is the idyllic
> charm
> which we seek.
In another newsgroup there is a strong argument for the support of USCF's
2,000 clubs, and by sheer volume of comment, I would say that is the main
reason USCF is appreciated as an organisation. You were thinking more of
national organisers, for larger events?
quote:
> If this move costs three quarters of a million dollars, I would not be the
> least bit surprised; and, I might add, that the consolidation of
> efficiencies and economies of scale derived from such a move, if not
> destroyed by the political forces gathering to devour the new born, will
> more than justify the costs.
You see, I would not mind this stance for a re-newed USCF. It has utterly
nothing to do with chess development, and all to do with maintenance
management, which is, as we have been agreeing above, its metier.
This alone is insufficient, and somewhat naive, imo, since it neglects the
main source of chess encouragement in the country - which are its strong
players. These folks are at the top of the chain of skill and also of
influence. Maurice Ashley as an example, has just manifested $1,000,000
prize fund for an open tournament all by himself!
But there is a rift between USCF's general membership, and even the
mid-upper reaches of masters and IMs. It is very hard for stronger players
to devote enough time at the game to fulfill and sustain their potential. No
handy revenue streams available to them. Some go overseas for monied
tournaments [which means playing their peers at equal strength], or teach
[much, much lower rated players]. But as a consistent stimulus to chess in
the States, there are no cohesive vehicles of communication among them so
that they can act with a collective force, and reamain in contact with the
main body of chess players.
With the exceptions of big metro districts such as NY City!
The current chess news here and chat at ICC is of Kasparov, and Nakamura,
who, to illustrate my example is off to Sweden to play the big guys. The
epicentre of chess seems elsewhere. Very rarely do large groups of strong
players visit the US - long gone is Lone Pine - and the general stimulus is
downward, to ratings, administrative efficiencies, and - we agree again - to
the defensive measure of staying alive.
quote:
> It is not that I wish to answer my own questions; but rather, only that
> they
> be considered in the light of the disastrous fire and sulphur raining down
> at the moment. Clouds of smoke and debri are rising from Mount Parthenon
> daily, and should not pass for the only thoughts on the subject, in my
> opinion.
Larry Parr still thinks USCF can fulfill a greater potential than you or I.
It is a respectable point of view. But as with Fide, I am not someone who
wants to wait around for the next series of circumlocutions, which
distresses the potential of our world game, so I took a different tack.
A few years ago, I decided to pursue chess development quite independently
from USCF. It truly is not a competition, since these arenas hardly overlap.
It is a parallel development. I only hope that as the receiving agency for
new chess players, USCF can regain basic competencies of timely
administrative skills to accommodate them.
It is frankly difficult to judge how well this will come off, since any real
independent measurement and transparency of administrative affairs is
currently occluded. While this may allow current incumbents a space of time
free from distraction, not all the signs are good ones. To make only a very
base point, when finances are hidden as they have been, there really are
only two motives in business for doing so <right?>, and I discount thievery
in this case, which leaves the other one; that the barky may be nearer a
lee-shore than the officers claim.
What writing in this and another moderated ng has revealed overall - is much
as you say - a very narrowed agenda for the future, and the overall argument
is between those who think this is itself a disaster, and those who claim
expedient cause.
My conflict with either case is that it does not address what stimulates
chess. And it becomes a conflict since USCF's position is not formally as we
have described it here, it is still the all-and-everything of chess in the
USA. This is what needs to change. If it has abandoned even the potential of
developing chess in the country, it should not obstruct those who would do
so, and should not claim that it does so itself.
Cordially, Phil Innes
quote:
> Cordially,
> Tom Klem
| |
| Randy Bauer 2005-04-07, 9:53 pm |
|
"Tom Klem" <thewiz@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:pTd5e.15$Xs.4@fed1read03...
(snip much good discussion)
quote:
>
> It is not the small town mentality that I am promoting here, though I
> truly
> enjoy such places when I live in them. It is the idea that an organization
> which follows its charter, doesn't eat its most active organizers because
> the biggest organizer from a financial perspective says so, and produces
> value and services rendered for monies received. That---is the idyllic
> charm
> which we seek.
I've never in my life lived in a small town, but when the Executive Board
held its meeting in Crossville, I was impressed with the community. They
have an active arts community, a retirement community full of former execs
that are looking for new challenges, a supportive business community, and a
growing population. It's also a very pretty area, with lots of lakes,
trees, hills, and a temperate climate.
quote:
>
> If this move costs three quarters of a million dollars, I would not be the
> least bit surprised; and, I might add, that the consolidation of
> efficiencies and economies of scale derived from such a move, if not
> destroyed by the political forces gathering to devour the new born, will
> more than justify the costs.
The figure of about $200,000 for the move includes items like new computers
that the organization needed anyway. The new building will run in the
$500-600,000 range, but you should net that from the proceeds of the sale of
the previous building and accept the fact that we would have been paying
rent in New Windsor. We also are benefiting from the investment income on
the $500,000 proceeds from the building sale.
quote:
>
> It is not that I wish to answer my own questions; but rather, only that
> they
> be considered in the light of the disastrous fire and sulphur raining down
> at the moment. Clouds of smoke and debri are rising from Mount Parthenon
> daily, and should not pass for the only thoughts on the subject, in my
> opinion.
I most appreciate your willingness to weigh the entirety of the move. The
Parrgumentative bombastic bullhorn rants and raves, but provides nothing
approaching a business case for staying in the former location. Meanwhile,
the current Board reduces expenses that weren't our doing (like
renegotiating the architect's fee from $60,000 to $45,000), secures free
rent in our temporary headquarters for a year or more, and reorganizes our
staff in a way that makes sense given our current operations. While the
USCF closes in on its second consecutive balanced budget after EIGHT YEARS
OF DEFICITS, Parr does the blue smoke and mirrors dance and claims the sky
is falling. What a joke.
Randy Bauer
quote:
>
> Cordially,
> Tom Klem
>
>
> "Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:bp75e.654$Fm5.498@trndny09...
> calls
> own
> But
> things
> of
> real
> ol'
> million
> nor
> the
> ventures,
> dust
> we
> have
> ratings
> the
> current
>
>
| |
| Randy Bauer 2005-04-07, 9:53 pm |
|
<chessdon@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112889612.947535.290990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
quote:
>
> But there is some good news and it is not that I got a deal on my car
> insurance. The good news is that Randy Bauer almost cut it at the EB
> meeting this past weekend. His positions on the candidates for the ED
> job was brilliant. He analyzed all of them correctly. He was right on
> virtually everything brought up. I thought for a minute that it was
> Brady who was sitting across from me. I started to think that maybe I
> should vote for this guy.
I suppose the phrase "damning with faint praise" comes to mind.
At this past weekend's Executive Board meeting, we interviewed 5 candidates
for Executive Director. I greatly appreciate all the candidates making time
to join us for interviews, and I think they all had their strong points. I
think there is something of a philosophical disagreement among the 5 Board
members present for the interviews (Tim Hanke was not able to be there due
to military obligations, and we are down to 6 members with the resignation
of Frank Brady) as to what are the most important qualities and strengths
for the ED. I believe that both Don and I greatly valued general management
experience and an ability to develop, articulate, and implement an
organiziational strategic plan. I think others may have put a greater
premium on being able to develop new marketing and other revenue generating
proposals.
Personally, I would like to see the USCF Executive Director concentrate on
developing a strategic plan and an organizational culture based on
membership service. There is a time for more expansive thinking, but I'm
not sure that the ED is the best person for that job anyway. We most likely
need a marketing director or a public relations director for that task. I
know of few organizations where the ED is primarily tasked with that
responsibility.
quote:
>
> But then Randy blew it. Would you believe that Randy doesn't realize he
> should bet ACC for basketball and Big Ten for Football. The man bet on
> the Big Ten team, he even gave my ACC North Carolina team two points. I
> will enjoy the wine he now owes me.
The Illinois-North Carolina NCAA men's basketball championship game was
entertaining and well played. I'm happy to make good on my bet, which is to
purchase a bottle of wine for us both to enjoy at the next Board meeting.
I'm hoping that Don gets off the Merlot and accepts a nice Pinot Noire
instead.
Randy Bauer
quote:
>
> Don Schultz
| |
| Tom Klem 2005-04-07, 9:53 pm |
| Agree with most of what you said.
Let me take exception to supposed accounting secrecy.
In the first place, the process involves the collection of minutae from the
petty cash drawer, up to the mortgage payment, salaries, expenditures, and
beyond. This normally, in any small to medium sized business is accounted
for along the thirty day accounting period we know as a month. For business
planning purposes, the smallest common denominator is the week, but for a
business as complicated as USCF was, I would say quarterlies produced on
time should have been the standard of excellence.
Instead of setting this goal and attempting to reach it, chaos was allowed
to set in. This is not necessarily the current managements fault.
Now, the real point of this is simply that knee jerk accounting is ALWAYS
wrong. Why? Because just gathering the documents you need each accounting
cycle to account for the transactions at the bank, and every other
tranaction involved in the chain of data which comprise a typical accounting
period is a non trivial task requiring (I would estimate) at least half of
the accounting staff's allotted time during any given accounting period.
Once collation and summation have occurred, and everything has been
explained satisfactorially to the authority in charge of producing the true
and certifiable General Ledger (from AP, AR, Payroll, and Inventory when
there was a B&E) of a business, then the real work begins.
An honest stewardship means hard work each accounting period. No
obfuscation. No making things up. Every penny accounted for, every
accounting period, and every expenditure justified.
When these things take place, at some great effort, you can rest assured
that your federation is in the hands of an honest broker. Not only in the
business realm, but the political one as well. Because accounting scandald
and political skullduggery are the evil twin brothers of a co-opted
governance organization, and a the very least should be a bell weather
indicator as to which way the wind is blowing. Either we are completely
honest, or we are just another too typical human mess.
Cordially,
Tom Klem
"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:uTg5e.723$ha3.673@trndny02...
quote:
>
> "Tom Klem" <thewiz@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:pTd5e.15$Xs.4@fed1read03...
>
> Make up your mind Tom, which one?
>
suffer[vbcol=seagreen]
memberships[vbcol=seagreen]
his[vbcol=seagreen]
members---"a[vbcol=seagreen]
paraphrase)"[vbcol=seagreen]
forgotten[vbcol=seagreen]
end,[vbcol=seagreen]
destroyed[vbcol=seagreen]
USCF[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I'm catching your drift...
>
decent[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Slim-down, get-fit, boot-camp. You'll break Larry Parr's heart. In a
> nutshell; ratings, print magazine to members, acquisition program for
> juniors, outsource everything else.
>
the[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Yes. If there is no intention to rock and roll then might as well move
shop.
quote:
> Proximity benefits to NY city always remained as unrealised potentials,
> rather than actualities.
>
>
> I live in a town about the same size, 12,000. We have 4 nobel winners
here -
quote:
> well, 3 now, Saul Bellow just died. It might depend on the town. Several
> towns away within 50 miles, are old brick-built mill towns that look like
> film-sets for 1949 after the bomb went off. They are not 'quiet', they are
> eerie!
>
because[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> In another newsgroup there is a strong argument for the support of USCF's
> 2,000 clubs, and by sheer volume of comment, I would say that is the main
> reason USCF is appreciated as an organisation. You were thinking more of
> national organisers, for larger events?
>
the[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> You see, I would not mind this stance for a re-newed USCF. It has utterly
> nothing to do with chess development, and all to do with maintenance
> management, which is, as we have been agreeing above, its metier.
>
> This alone is insufficient, and somewhat naive, imo, since it neglects the
> main source of chess encouragement in the country - which are its strong
> players. These folks are at the top of the chain of skill and also of
> influence. Maurice Ashley as an example, has just manifested $1,000,000
> prize fund for an open tournament all by himself!
>
> But there is a rift between USCF's general membership, and even the
> mid-upper reaches of masters and IMs. It is very hard for stronger players
> to devote enough time at the game to fulfill and sustain their potential.
No
quote:
> handy revenue streams available to them. Some go overseas for monied
> tournaments [which means playing their peers at equal strength], or teach
> [much, much lower rated players]. But as a consistent stimulus to chess in
> the States, there are no cohesive vehicles of communication among them so
> that they can act with a collective force, and reamain in contact with the
> main body of chess players.
>
> With the exceptions of big metro districts such as NY City!
>
> The current chess news here and chat at ICC is of Kasparov, and Nakamura,
> who, to illustrate my example is off to Sweden to play the big guys. The
> epicentre of chess seems elsewhere. Very rarely do large groups of strong
> players visit the US - long gone is Lone Pine - and the general stimulus
is
quote:
> downward, to ratings, administrative efficiencies, and - we agree again -
to
quote:
> the defensive measure of staying alive.
>
down[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Larry Parr still thinks USCF can fulfill a greater potential than you or
I.
quote:
> It is a respectable point of view. But as with Fide, I am not someone who
> wants to wait around for the next series of circumlocutions, which
> distresses the potential of our world game, so I took a different tack.
>
> A few years ago, I decided to pursue chess development quite independently
> from USCF. It truly is not a competition, since these arenas hardly
overlap.
quote:
> It is a parallel development. I only hope that as the receiving agency for
> new chess players, USCF can regain basic competencies of timely
> administrative skills to accommodate them.
>
> It is frankly difficult to judge how well this will come off, since any
real
quote:
> independent measurement and transparency of administrative affairs is
> currently occluded. While this may allow current incumbents a space of
time
quote:
> free from distraction, not all the signs are good ones. To make only a
very
quote:
> base point, when finances are hidden as they have been, there really are
> only two motives in business for doing so <right?>, and I discount
thievery
quote:
> in this case, which leaves the other one; that the barky may be nearer a
> lee-shore than the officers claim.
>
> What writing in this and another moderated ng has revealed overall - is
much
quote:
> as you say - a very narrowed agenda for the future, and the overall
argument
quote:
> is between those who think this is itself a disaster, and those who claim
> expedient cause.
>
> My conflict with either case is that it does not address what stimulates
> chess. And it becomes a conflict since USCF's position is not formally as
we
quote:
> have described it here, it is still the all-and-everything of chess in the
> USA. This is what needs to change. If it has abandoned even the potential
of
quote:
> developing chess in the country, it should not obstruct those who would do
> so, and should not claim that it does so itself.
>
> Cordially, Phil Innes
>
>
>
| |
| Tom Klem 2005-04-08, 3:55 am |
| Ditto.
I wish you every success, and hope for a federation we can ALL be proud of.
Tom Klem
"Randy Bauer" <randybauer2300@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Ipk5e.542$8Z6.179@attbi_s21...
quote:
>
> "Tom Klem" <thewiz@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:pTd5e.15$Xs.4@fed1read03...
>
> (snip much good discussion)
organization[vbcol=seagreen]
because[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I've never in my life lived in a small town, but when the Executive Board
> held its meeting in Crossville, I was impressed with the community. They
> have an active arts community, a retirement community full of former execs
> that are looking for new challenges, a supportive business community, and
a
quote:
> growing population. It's also a very pretty area, with lots of lakes,
> trees, hills, and a temperate climate.
the[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> The figure of about $200,000 for the move includes items like new
computers
quote:
> that the organization needed anyway. The new building will run in the
> $500-600,000 range, but you should net that from the proceeds of the sale
of
quote:
> the previous building and accept the fact that we would have been paying
> rent in New Windsor. We also are benefiting from the investment income on
> the $500,000 proceeds from the building sale.
down[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I most appreciate your willingness to weigh the entirety of the move. The
> Parrgumentative bombastic bullhorn rants and raves, but provides nothing
> approaching a business case for staying in the former location.
Meanwhile,
quote:
> the current Board reduces expenses that weren't our doing (like
> renegotiating the architect's fee from $60,000 to $45,000), secures free
> rent in our temporary headquarters for a year or more, and reorganizes our
> staff in a way that makes sense given our current operations. While the
> USCF closes in on its second consecutive balanced budget after EIGHT YEARS
> OF DEFICITS, Parr does the blue smoke and mirrors dance and claims the sky
> is falling. What a joke.
>
> Randy Bauer
your[vbcol=seagreen]
sponsorship"[vbcol=seagreen]
more[vbcol=seagreen]
primes[vbcol=seagreen]
difference[vbcol=seagreen]
place,[vbcol=seagreen]
chapter[vbcol=seagreen]
New[vbcol=seagreen]
please,[vbcol=seagreen]
for[vbcol=seagreen]
a[vbcol=seagreen]
heaven[vbcol=seagreen]
from[vbcol=seagreen]
succeed,[vbcol=seagreen]
than[vbcol=seagreen]
All[vbcol=seagreen]
from[vbcol=seagreen]
vetting[vbcol=seagreen]
obliged[vbcol=seagreen]
and[vbcol=seagreen]
$200,000[vbcol=seagreen]
are[vbcol=seagreen]
due[vbcol=seagreen]
possible[vbcol=seagreen]
$650,000[vbcol=seagreen]
final[vbcol=seagreen]
serves --[vbcol=seagreen]
loss[vbcol=seagreen]
Board[vbcol=seagreen]
Mrs.[vbcol=seagreen]
large[vbcol=seagreen]
love[vbcol=seagreen]
there,[vbcol=seagreen]
ED[vbcol=seagreen]
been[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
| |
| chessdon@aol.com 2005-04-08, 3:55 am |
| I'm hoping that Don gets off the Merlot and accepts a nice Pinot Noire
instead.
Randy Bauer
Good point Randy. I've sung the Merlot song too long. One must evolve
lest one become irrelevant; Pinot Noir is an excellent choice.
Don
| |
| Don C. Aldrich 2005-04-08, 3:55 am |
| On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 00:40:08 GMT, "Randy Bauer"
<randybauer2300@yahoo.com> wrote:
quote:
> I've never in my life lived in a small town,
Uh, Randy, don't you live in Iowa?
<oops>
dondo
| |
| Spam Scone 2005-04-08, 3:55 am |
|
Chess One wrote:
quote:
>
make my[vbcol=seagreen]
endure the[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Yes. If there is no intention to rock and roll then might as well
move shop.
quote:
> Proximity benefits to NY city always remained as unrealised
potentials,
quote:
> rather than actualities.
Again the Phixation on New York. It's hardly earthshaking news that
USCF has squandered its chances, but I don't understand this mantra
chanted by Parr/Innes that sponsorship depends on being close to NYC.
quote:
I[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I live in a town about the same size, 12,000. We have 4 nobel winners
here -
quote:
> well, 3 now, Saul Bellow just died. It might depend on the town.
Several
quote:
> towns away within 50 miles, are old brick-built mill towns that look
like
quote:
> film-sets for 1949 after the bomb went off. They are not 'quiet',
they are
quote:
> eerie!
>
because[vbcol=seagreen]
produces[vbcol=seagreen]
idyllic[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> In another newsgroup there is a strong argument for the support of
USCF's
quote:
> 2,000 clubs, and by sheer volume of comment, I would say that is the
main
quote:
> reason USCF is appreciated as an organisation. You were thinking more
of
quote:
> national organisers, for larger events?
No, Tom was off on his typical Goichberg rant.
quote:
be the[vbcol=seagreen]
not[vbcol=seagreen]
will[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> You see, I would not mind this stance for a re-newed USCF. It has
utterly
quote:
> nothing to do with chess development, and all to do with maintenance
> management, which is, as we have been agreeing above, its metier.
>
> This alone is insufficient, and somewhat naive, imo, since it
neglects the
quote:
> main source of chess encouragement in the country - which are its
strong
quote:
> players. These folks are at the top of the chain of skill and also of
quote:
> influence. Maurice Ashley as an example, has just manifested
$1,000,000
quote:
> prize fund for an open tournament all by himself!
Uh, Phil, how does an OPEN tournament benefit "strong players"?
quote:
> But there is a rift between USCF's general membership, and even the
> mid-upper reaches of masters and IMs. It is very hard for stronger
players
quote:
> to devote enough time at the game to fulfill and sustain their
potential. No
quote:
> handy revenue streams available to them. Some go overseas for monied
> tournaments [which means playing their peers at equal strength], or
teach
quote:
> [much, much lower rated players]. But as a consistent stimulus to
chess in
quote:
> the States, there are no cohesive vehicles of communication among
them so
quote:
> that they can act with a collective force, and reamain in contact
with the
quote:
> main body of chess players.
YAWN!
quote:
> With the exceptions of big metro districts such as NY City!
So the maintenence of an office in NYC to enter player ratings is
essential to the health of chess in the USA? Phil, there's a big bridge
over the East River I'd like to sell you.
quote:
> The current chess news here and chat at ICC is of Kasparov, and
Nakamura,
quote:
> who, to illustrate my example is off to Sweden to play the big guys.
The
quote:
> epicentre of chess seems elsewhere. Very rarely do large groups of
strong
quote:
> players visit the US - long gone is Lone Pine - and the general
stimulus is
quote:
> downward, to ratings, administrative efficiencies, and - we agree
again - to
quote:
> the defensive measure of staying alive.
Staying alive is an admirable measure. The dead rarely, if ever,
accomplish anything.
quote:
that[vbcol=seagreen]
raining down[vbcol=seagreen]
Parthenon[vbcol=seagreen]
my[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Larry Parr still thinks USCF can fulfill a greater potential than you
or I.
quote:
> It is a respectable point of view. But as with Fide, I am not someone
who
quote:
> wants to wait around for the next series of circumlocutions, which
> distresses the potential of our world game, so I took a different
tack.
quote:
>
> A few years ago, I decided to pursue chess development quite
independently
quote:
> from USCF. It truly is not a competition, since these arenas hardly
overlap.
And since you have yet to show anything for your "chess development"
efforts.
(Snip Phil speaking ex cathedra and saying nothing.)
| |
| Spam Scone 2005-04-08, 3:55 am |
|
Don C. Aldrich wrote:
quote:
> On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 00:40:08 GMT, "Randy Bauer"
> <randybauer2300@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Uh, Randy, don't you live in Iowa?
>
> <oops>
>
> dondo
Oh the irony of someone from MN taunting an Iowan about small towns!
| |
| Tom Klem 2005-04-08, 3:55 am |
|
"Spam Scone" <Spamscone@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112937401.908323.67740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
quote:
>
> No, Tom was off on his typical Goichberg rant.
>
You still insist, after years of me telling what happened here in Nevada, in
every detail exactly the same when asked, on believing the lies which the
USCF told in 1996, 1997 and 1998. After all of the proof of what we were
attempting to correct at the local and national level has hit you in the
face, you still insist. After the financial ruin of the USCF by these very
same people who promoted the lies which you believed back then, you still
insist on branding what I say as a rant.
You still believe?
If anyone needed proof of why the libel laws need to be enforced in this
country, you are certainly extent and the poster boy du jour. Once a lie has
been told about someone, even after being proven false by time and
circumstance, there will always be a doubt in the minds of anyone having
heard that lie, about the subject of the lie. The fact that the libel laws
have gone the way of the dodo (no police department would even consider
enforcing them, no prosecutor would bandy about the notion that libel is an
evil that society can do without), is just one of the factors which plague
both the country, and the USCF.
I guess you need a sign in your office, if you don't already have one like
Mulder on the X-Files used to have: "I want to believe"
The question would be then, "what ... do you want to believe?"
--
Tom Klem
"Trust no one, Mr Mulder!"
---Xfiles movie, The well groomed man
| |
| Chess One 2005-04-08, 6:54 am |
|
"Randy Bauer" <randybauer2300@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:EAk5e.19901$Vx1.8536@attbi_s01...
quote:
> Personally, I would like to see the USCF Executive Director concentrate on
> developing a strategic plan and an organizational culture based on
> membership service. There is a time for more expansive thinking, but I'm
> not sure that the ED is the best person for that job anyway. We most
> likely need a marketing director or a public relations director for that
> task. I know of few organizations where the ED is primarily tasked with
> that responsibility.
Does this paragraph display a clear idea of what the Ed's job is? How can
someone be selected on this basis?
Phil Innes
quote:
> Randy Bauer
>
>
| |
| Spam Scone 2005-04-08, 6:54 am |
|
Tom Klem wrote:
quote:
> "Spam Scone" <Spamscone@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1112937401.908323.67740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
> You still insist, after years of me telling what happened here in
Nevada,
Ah, Nevada. That paradise of chess that Stan Vaughan created. You will,
I hope, pardon me for not genuflecting before the image of St. Stan;
the simple fact is that I don't believe your posts on this topic, Tom.
in
quote:
> every detail exactly the same when asked, on believing the lies which
the
quote:
> USCF told in 1996, 1997 and 1998. After all of the proof of what we
were
quote:
> attempting to correct at the local and national level has hit you in
the
quote:
> face, you still insist.
Is this where you post links to the club newsletters you published? I
always find it a fascinating study in self-delusion that someone would
present as evidence a magazine they wrote themselves.
After the financial ruin of the USCF by these very
quote:
> same people who promoted the lies which you believed back then, you
still
quote:
> insist on branding what I say as a rant.
You are purposely muddling the Nevada situation with the mismanagement
of the USCF.
quote:
> You still believe?
>
> If anyone needed proof of why the libel laws need to be enforced in
this
quote:
> country, you are certainly extent and the poster boy du jour.
No wonder you like Phil!
Once a lie has
quote:
> been told about someone, even after being proven false by time and
> circumstance, there will always be a doubt in the minds of anyone
having
quote:
> heard that lie, about the subject of the lie. The fact that the libel
laws
quote:
> have gone the way of the dodo (no police department would even
consider
quote:
> enforcing them, no prosecutor would bandy about the notion that libel
is an
quote:
> evil that society can do without), is just one of the factors which
plague
quote:
> both the country, and the USCF.
>
> I guess you need a sign in your office, if you don't already have one
like
quote:
> Mulder on the X-Files used to have: "I want to believe"
>
> The question would be then, "what ... do you want to believe?"
| |
| Chess One 2005-04-08, 6:54 am |
|
"Spam Scone" <Spamscone@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112937401.908323.67740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
quote:
>
> Chess One wrote:
quote:
> move shop.
> potentials,
>
> Again the Phixation on New York. It's hardly earthshaking news that
> USCF has squandered its chances, but I don't understand this mantra
> chanted by Parr/Innes that sponsorship depends on being close to NYC.
It doesn't. It optimises it rather than depends on it. You also don't
understand that its an unused resource in any case - which is why I wrote
that the issue is moot. It is also untrue that Parr/Innes wrote only of
sponsorships. NY Metro chess influence is larger than that.
quote:
> USCF's
> main
> of
>
> No, Tom was off on his typical Goichberg rant.
Yes. I didn't develop the point that heretorfore there has been USCF and CCA
as prime movers of chess activity. If I wanted to disagree with Tom I would
have said that USCF can't do what CCA does.
quote:
>
> $1,000,000
>
> Uh, Phil, how does an OPEN tournament benefit "strong players"?
60 Grandmasters signed up. Lots of international players too, who haven't
visited the US in a long time, if ever.
----------
quote:
>
> YAWN!
Yes. Chess development needs to be a continuous spectrum. No one ever talks
about it here since getting players into the game is too boring.
quote:
>
> So the maintenence of an office in NYC to enter player ratings is
> essential to the health of chess in the USA? Phil, there's a big bridge
> over the East River I'd like to sell you.
I think you misunderstood. A few posts ago someone wrote that Moscow has
more players than the entire USCF. It is a linked system of players - a
continuous spectrum. NY City is the nearest thing US has to this - this was
not a comment about ratings.
quote:
> the general
> stimulus is
> again - to
>
> Staying alive is an admirable measure. The dead rarely, if ever,
> accomplish anything.
Yes. It is not an argument, it is an observation about USCF's activity
range.
quote:
> independently
> overlap.
>
> And since you have yet to show anything for your "chess development"
> efforts.
But that would be name-dropping Neil, and who cares about this subject
anyway?
Phil Innes
quote:
> (Snip Phil speaking ex cathedra and saying nothing.)
>
| |
| Spam Scone 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
|
Chess One wrote:
quote:
> "Randy Bauer" <randybauer2300@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:EAk5e.19901$Vx1.8536@attbi_s01...
>
concentrate on[vbcol=seagreen]
but I'm[vbcol=seagreen]
most[vbcol=seagreen]
that[vbcol=seagreen]
with[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Does this paragraph display a clear idea of what the Ed's job is?
Does it need to? It's a newsgroup post, not an ad.
How can
quote:
> someone be selected on this basis?
Easily. The idea that a membership service organization should function
as a membership service organization isn't that strange a concept,
Phil. Even you should be able to understand it.
| |
| Spam Scone 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
|
Chess One wrote:
quote:
> "Spam Scone" <Spamscone@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1112937401.908323.67740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
NYC.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> It doesn't. It optimises it rather than depends on it. You also don't
quote:
> understand that its an unused resource in any case - which is why I
wrote
quote:
> that the issue is moot.
Actually Phil, I DO understand it's a moot point. "It's hardly
earthshaking news that USCF has squandered its chances..."
It is also untrue that Parr/Innes wrote only of
quote:
> sponsorships. NY Metro chess influence is larger than that.
We've been over this before, and neither you nor Larry has presented
anything.
quote:
the[vbcol=seagreen]
more[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Yes. I didn't develop the point that heretorfore there has been USCF
and CCA
quote:
> as prime movers of chess activity. If I wanted to disagree with Tom I
would
quote:
> have said that USCF can't do what CCA does.
Agreed. But traditionally the USCF has had independent organizers run
chess events. USCF, aside from US Championships, hasn't held them. It's
my understanding the BCF's practice is the same.
quote:
of[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> 60 Grandmasters signed up.
US GMs?
Lots of international players too, who haven't
quote:
> visited the US in a long time, if ever.
Good. It will help US chess immensely to have all these "international
players" playing A players in a swiss.
quote:
>
> Yes. Chess development needs to be a continuous spectrum. No one ever
talks
quote:
> about it here since getting players into the game is too boring.
Chess development comes up from time to time on rgcp - see the
"lifetime title" thread now in progress.
quote:
bridge[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I think you misunderstood. A few posts ago someone wrote that Moscow
has
quote:
> more players than the entire USCF.
Any verification for that claim? Unless you mean "people who know chess
but do not play organized chess." In that case Brattleboro, VT, and
Spring City, PA probably have more chessplayers than all of VT and PA
have USCF members. If this is the point then bringing Moscow and NYC
into the argument is pointless.
It is a linked system of players - a
quote:
> continuous spectrum. NY City is the nearest thing US has to this -
this was
quote:
> not a comment about ratings.
This is probably a bogus argument. See above comments on VT and PA.
quote:
>
> Yes. It is not an argument, it is an observation about USCF's
activity
quote:
> range.
Agreed.
quote:
hardly[vbcol=seagreen]
development"[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> But that would be name-dropping Neil,
Yes, it would be name-dropping, Phil. But at least then you would have
SOMETHING to point at for your "efforts".
and who cares about this subject
quote:
> anyway?
| |
| Chess One 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
|
"Spam Scone" <Spamscone@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112957862.503344.115080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
quote:
>
> US GMs?
Wouldn't that be lovely? I think the site lists em - they're from all over
the shop.
quote:
> Lots of international players too, who haven't
quote:
> has
>
> Any verification for that claim?
I didn't ask him. But the stats on rgcm state US has about 4.5% of the
world's rated players, and eastern Europe and the Russias 44%. It doesn't
seem absurd to think Moscow may have over 100,000 rated players.
quote:
> development"
>
> Yes, it would be name-dropping, Phil. But at least then you would have
> SOMETHING to point at for your "efforts".
Something to 'prove' in public maybe. There are some people here who
otherwise know about my activities as part of a group effort to unfreeze
chess from its icy slumbers. [yes, that is a mixed-metaphor, but a clever
one] ;)
[vbcol=seagreen]
> and who cares about this subject
I must have missed the implication of the chess-development thread you
mentioned Neil - do you remember what happened?
Phil
| |
| Sam Sloan 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:33:03 -0700, "Tom Klem" <thewiz@nowhere.com>
wrote:
quote:
>If anyone needed proof of why the libel laws need to be enforced in this
>country,
>--
>Tom Klem
If the libel laws were enforced in this country, Tom Klem would be
in jail.
Nobody on this group has told more lies than Tom Klem. Hekeeps telling
the same lies over and over again hundreds of times.
Here are a few examples:
1. There were 1600 or 1700 disenfranchised chess players in Nevada.
(These were the players who were supposedly yearning to be led by Stan
Vaughan and Tom Klem. In reality there have never been much more than
700 USCF members in Nevada.)
2. Al Lawrence recognized Stan Vaughan andTom Klem as the rightful
leaders of all Nevada chess. (Al Lawrence did no such thing.)
3. Tom Klem has proof of the above in a storage locker. (Amazingly,
Tom Klem has been writing about this storage locker for 9 years since
1996. Why has not he got around to going there and getting out the
proof?)
Sam Sloan
| |
| Sam Sloan 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| On 7 Apr 2005 08:52:28 -0700, "George John" <george@neosoft.com>
wrote:
quote:
>Grant Perks wrote:
>
>Grant,
>
>[SNIP]
>
>
>Another point, which has been mentioned elsewhere, is this number
>includes costs that would have occurred even if the USCF had not moved,
>most notably the $30,868.71 for the new computer equipment. After
>subtracting this number, your $201K figure is reduced to roughly $170K,
>well within the $150K-$200K estimate we have already seen on rgcp.
>
>[SNIP]
>
>Best regards,
>
>George John
According to George John, $170,000 is chicken feed. An amount so
small that the USCF should not be concerned about spending it.
Of course, we could have stayed in New Windsor for free.
Sam Sloan
| |
| Sam Sloan 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| On 7 Apr 2005 04:46:51 -0700, "Grant Perks" <gperks2@aol.com> wrote:
quote:
>As I recall, the building in New Windsor was 6,000 square foot, with a
>6,000 square foot basement. I remember being in New Windsor when it
>rained, one employee had to build a tent over his desk to keep the rain
>water from frying his computer. The other employees were a bit more
>fortunate, they just needed to get mulitiple buckets to place around
>their desk. The carpet was patched in various spots with duct tape. A
>great work environ.
>
>Fixing the roof, new HVAC, repairing the parking lot, new carpet,
>paving new parking areas, etc would have cost at least $100,000.
I recently visited the old building, which is now a day care center.
The new owners told me that they had spent several hundred thousand
dollars renovating the place, but had not found anything wrong with
the roof.
Sam Sloan
| |
| Tom Klem 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| Frankly Sam, you're just not worth the trouble.
That's why.
--
Tom Klem
"Slanders, Libels and Defamations are our business!"
---sign hanging up in the back of Spam Sloan's rusting cab.
"Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:42567ef7.5901453@ca.news.verio.net...
quote:
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:33:03 -0700, "Tom Klem" <thewiz@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> If the libel laws were enforced in this country, Tom Klem would be
> in jail.
>
> Nobody on this group has told more lies than Tom Klem. Hekeeps telling
> the same lies over and over again hundreds of times.
>
> Here are a few examples:
>
> 1. There were 1600 or 1700 disenfranchised chess players in Nevada.
> (These were the players who were supposedly yearning to be led by Stan
> Vaughan and Tom Klem. In reality there have never been much more than
> 700 USCF members in Nevada.)
>
> 2. Al Lawrence recognized Stan Vaughan andTom Klem as the rightful
> leaders of all Nevada chess. (Al Lawrence did no such thing.)
>
> 3. Tom Klem has proof of the above in a storage locker. (Amazingly,
> Tom Klem has been writing about this storage locker for 9 years since
> 1996. Why has not he got around to going there and getting out the
> proof?)
>
> Sam Sloan
| |
| Tom Klem 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| Naturally, it is your right (and I defended your right by risking my life
for years) to believe the liars and thieves that sacked the USCF treasury.
The embezzlers and governance ambushers who took the USCF hostage and used
the membership monies to promote their own lavish life styles of expensive
trips, visits to Rio with the girl friend for a nice week or two fornicating
in the fun and sun of Latin America. Whose padded expense reports are winked
at to this very day. Who desire nothing more than to be back in the lap of
luxury and lifestyles of the rich and ruinous provided by the membership. If
only they can get back into power.
I no longer defend your rights. I am free of that obligation. I will regret
to my dying day that I did.
--
Tom Klem
"Perhaps you think I'm treating you unfairly. IT WOULD BE TOO BAD if I had
to leave a garrison here ..."
---Darth Vader (the only character in Star Wars who knew what he was about)
"Spam Scone" <Spamscone@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112954819.472255.190210@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
quote:
>
> Tom Klem wrote:
> Nevada,
>
> Ah, Nevada. That paradise of chess that Stan Vaughan created. You will,
> I hope, pardon me for not genuflecting before the image of St. Stan;
> the simple fact is that I don't believe your posts on this topic, Tom.
>
> in
> the
> were
> the
>
> Is this where you post links to the club newsletters you published? I
> always find it a fascinating study in self-delusion that someone would
> present as evidence a magazine they wrote themselves.
>
> After the financial ruin of the USCF by these very
> still
>
> You are purposely muddling the Nevada situation with the mismanagement
> of the USCF.
>
> this
>
> No wonder you like Phil!
>
> Once a lie has
> having
> laws
> consider
> is an
> plague
> like
>
| |
| Randy Bauer 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| In article <42568ac6.8923765@ca.news.verio.net>, Sam Sloan says...
quote:
>
>On 7 Apr 2005 04:46:51 -0700, "Grant Perks" <gperks2@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>I recently visited the old building, which is now a day care center.
>
>The new owners told me that they had spent several hundred thousand
>dollars renovating the place, but had not found anything wrong with
>the roof.
They spent several hundred thousand dollars renovating the building you said we
could stay in "for free."
That about sums up the Sloan method of accounting.
Randy Bauer
quote:
>
>Sam Sloan
| |
| Sam Sloan 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:36:44 -0700, "Tom Klem" <thewiz@nowhere.com>
wrote:
quote:
>Naturally, it is your right (and I defended your right by risking my life
>for years) to believe the liars and thieves that sacked the USCF treasury.
>The embezzlers and governance ambushers who took the USCF hostage and used
>the membership monies to promote their own lavish life styles of expensive
>trips, visits to Rio with the girl friend for a nice week or two fornicating
>in the fun and sun of Latin America.
quote:
>Tom Klem
Tom Klem is referring to a FIDE Congress that took place in Curitiba,
Brazil in 1993. Naturally, the USCF sent representatives.there.
Tom Klem does not know his geography well. Caritiba is far from any
beach and far from Rio.
Too bad he does not complain about something more recent, like the $2
million the USCF lost between 1999 and 2003.
Sam Sloan
| |
| George John 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| Sam Sloan wrote:
quote:
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:36:44 -0700, "Tom Klem" <thewiz@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
[SNIP]
quote:
> Too bad he does not complain about something more recent, like the $2
> million the USCF lost between 1999 and 2003.
Operations lost a significant amount of money in 1997 and 1998, too. A
bullish stock market partially masked this, just as losses in the LMA
during bearish times made some future administrations' operational
performance look financially worse than they actually were.
Best regards,
George John
| |
| Tom Klem 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| I guess you just missed the memo.
A short search of Google will show exactly what I had to say about all that.
Why repeat it?
--
Tom Klem
"Slanders, Libels and Defamations are our business!"
---sign hanging up in the back of Spam Sloan's rusting cab.
"Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:4256c45c.23665734@ca.news.verio.net...
quote:
> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:36:44 -0700, "Tom Klem" <thewiz@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
treasury.[vbcol=seagreen]
used[vbcol=seagreen]
expensive[vbcol=seagreen]
fornicating[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> Tom Klem is referring to a FIDE Congress that took place in Curitiba,
> Brazil in 1993. Naturally, the USCF sent representatives.there.
>
> Tom Klem does not know his geography well. Caritiba is far from any
> beach and far from Rio.
>
> Too bad he does not complain about something more recent, like the $2
> million the USCF lost between 1999 and 2003.
>
> Sam Sloan
| |
| Tom Klem 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| Game, set, and point: Randy Bauer.
Plonck!! Pfstzzzzzzzz!!
;)
Tom Klem
"Randy Bauer" <Randy_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:d368r902arl@drn.newsguy.com...
quote:
> In article <42568ac6.8923765@ca.news.verio.net>, Sam Sloan says...
>
> They spent several hundred thousand dollars renovating the building you
said we
quote:
> could stay in "for free."
>
> That about sums up the Sloan method of accounting.
>
> Randy Bauer
>
| |
| Paul Rubin 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| "Spam Scone" <Spamscone@yahoo.com> writes:
quote:
> Easily. The idea that a membership service organization should function
> as a membership service organization isn't that strange a concept,
> Phil. Even you should be able to understand it.
It does represent a change in direction. Despite any marketing claims
to the contrary, the USCF has traditionally been a service
organization for tournament operators, rather than for players. A lot
of its problems come from the tension between relying on one group
(players) for revenue while basing its policies on the requirements of
another group (operators).
| |
| Sam Sloan 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| On 8 Apr 2005 11:41:06 -0700, "George John" <george@neosoft.com>
wrote:
quote:
>Sam Sloan wrote:
>
>[SNIP]
>
>
>Operations lost a significant amount of money in 1997 and 1998, too. A
>bullish stock market partially masked this, just as losses in the LMA
>during bearish times made some future administrations' operational
>performance look financially worse than they actually were.
>
>Best regards,
>
>George John
George John tries to explain that his lover-boy De Feis was not so bad
and it was actually his enemy Cavallo that lost the money.
Sam Sloan
| |
| George John 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
|
Sam Sloan wrote:
[SNIP]
quote:
> George John tries to explain that his lover-boy De Feis was not so
bad
quote:
> and it was actually his enemy Cavallo that lost the money.
I consider neither a "lover-boy" or "enemy". I had significant issues
with the performance of both.
My objective here is to help assure that the accountability for past
operational losses, which nearly bankrupt the USCF, is assigned in a
fair and complete manner.
Sincerely,
George John
| |
| Tom Klem 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
| And lest we forget ... at the time, Sloan said there was no problem.
Look it up in Google.
Randy Bauer has him pegged for his accounting acumen.
--
Tom Klem
"What's that humming?"
---Susan, "What Planet are you from?"
"George John" <george@neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:1112990919.389639.203480@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
quote:
>
> Sam Sloan wrote:
>
> [SNIP]
>
> bad
>
> I consider neither a "lover-boy" or "enemy". I had significant issues
> with the performance of both.
>
> My objective here is to help assure that the accountability for past
> operational losses, which nearly bankrupt the USCF, is assigned in a
> fair and complete manner.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> George John
>
| |
| Chess One 2005-04-08, 5:58 pm |
|
quote:
> Randy Bauer has him pegged for his accounting acumen.
All that happened Tom is that Randy says just moving to Crossville costs
about $200,000, while Sam says renovating the other larger building costs
the same.
Did anyone make any other substantial points?
What does this have to do with 'accounting'?
Phil
quote:
> Tom Klem
>
> "What's that humming?"
> ---Susan, "What Planet are you from?"
| |
| Sam Sloan 2005-04-08, 9:53 pm |
| On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:43:45 -0700, "Tom Klem" <thewiz@nowhere.com>
wrote:
quote:
>And lest we forget ... at the time, Sloan said there was no problem.
>
>Look it up in Google.
>
>Randy Bauer has him pegged for his accounting acumen.
>
>--
>Tom Klem
Tom Klem is referring to lies perpetrated primarily by Bruce Draney
during the1999 election campaign in which Draney claimed that I had
stated that the the USCF did not have financial problems.
I made no such statement. I did state that the USCF's problems were
not as severe and were different from what Tom Dorsch said they were.
Sam Sloan
| |
| Randy Bauer 2005-04-08, 9:53 pm |
|
"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:EiC5e.1146$1p4.692@trndny06...
quote:
>
>
> All that happened Tom is that Randy says just moving to Crossville costs
> about $200,000, while Sam says renovating the other larger building costs
> the same.
>
> Did anyone make any other substantial points?
>
> What does this have to do with 'accounting'?
Sam said we could have stayed in New Windsor "for free." An accountant
would tell you that shelling out a couple hundred grand to renovate the
building is not free.
Randy Bauer
quote:
>
> Phil
>
>
>
| |
| Sam Sloan 2005-04-08, 9:53 pm |
| On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 22:04:45 GMT, "Randy Bauer"
<randybauer2300@yahoo.com> wrote:
quote:
>
>"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:EiC5e.1146$1p4.692@trndny06...
>
>Sam said we could have stayed in New Windsor "for free." An accountant
>would tell you that shelling out a couple hundred grand to renovate the
>building is not free.
>
>Randy Bauer
Wrong. An accountant will tell you that making $200,000 worth of
capital improvements makes the building worth more and therefore is
free.
Sam Sloan
| |
| Tom Martinak 2005-04-08, 9:53 pm |
| Sam Sloan wrote:
quote:
> Wrong. An accountant will tell you that making $200,000 worth of
> capital improvements makes the building worth more and therefore is
> free.
Therefore you must also believe that construction of a new $500,000
makes a building worth more then the empty lot and therefore is free.
- Tom Martinak
| |
| Tom Klem 2005-04-08, 9:53 pm |
| I guess you didn't get the memo either.
Cordially,
Tom Klem
"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:EiC5e.1146$1p4.692@trndny06...
quote:
>
>
> All that happened Tom is that Randy says just moving to Crossville costs
> about $200,000, while Sam says renovating the other larger building costs
> the same.
>
> Did anyone make any other substantial points?
>
> What does this have to do with 'accounting'?
>
> Phil
>
>
>
| |
|
| |