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What if Fischer should come back in another life?
|
|
| David Ames 2005-03-27, 5:51 pm |
| If you reap what you sow, Fischer could perhaps come back as a Jew in
another lifetime, and might have to undergo the same sort of scorn and
humiliation that he hands out.
David Ames
| |
| Mike Murray 2005-03-27, 5:51 pm |
| On 27 Mar 2005 06:28:40 -0800, "David Ames" <worldrecord@juno.com>
wrote:
quote:
>If you reap what you sow, Fischer could perhaps come back as a Jew in
>another lifetime,
Are you referring to Nietzsche's doctrine of the Eternal Return? :-)
| |
| 99% Kosher 2005-03-27, 5:51 pm |
|
David Ames wrote:
quote:
> If you reap what you sow, Fischer could perhaps come back as a Jew in
> another lifetime, and might have to undergo the same sort of scorn
and
quote:
> humiliation that he hands out.
>
> David Ames
He is a Jew! What are you talking about?
| |
| sisternehoc@optician.com 2005-03-27, 5:51 pm |
| He's only 50% Jewish.
| |
| Taylor Kingston 2005-03-27, 9:51 pm |
|
sisternehoc@optician.com wrote:
quote:
> He's only 50% Jewish.
Actually it appears that, whatever his religious or political
beliefs, Fischer is of 100% Jewish ancestry. Both his mother Regina,
and his biological father, the Hungarian-born physicist Paul Nemenyi,
were Jewish. See for example the books "Bobby Fischer Goes to War"
(2004) page 306, and "Bobby Fischer, the Wandering King" (2003) page
22. The information was also published by the Philadelphia Inquirer in
late 2002.
| |
| David Ames 2005-03-28, 5:56 pm |
|
Mike Murray wrote:
quote:
> On 27 Mar 2005 06:28:40 -0800, "David Ames" <worldrecord@juno.com>
> wrote:
>
in[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Are you referring to Nietzsche's doctrine of the Eternal Return? :-)
I have never got around to reading Nietzxshe, so the answer is No.
| |
| David Ames 2005-03-28, 5:56 pm |
|
99% Kosher wrote:
quote:
> David Ames wrote:
in[vbcol=seagreen]
> and
>
>
> He is a Jew! What are you talking about?
Fischer has written a letter to The Jewish Encyclopedia, stating that
he is uncircumcised, and that he does not wish to be listed by them as
a Jew. Perhaps in another lifetime he may be born into a family that
observes the Jewish faith,
David
| |
| David Ames 2005-03-28, 5:56 pm |
|
sisternehoc@optician.com wrote:
quote:
> He's only 50% Jewish.
He does not observe the Jewish faith, does not identify with it, and
has not undergone rites and ceremonies of that faith.
| |
| Ruud H. 2005-03-28, 5:56 pm |
| If Fischer is part or totally Jewish himself, maybe he has some kind of
death-wish raging against his own. That would explain his other habits a lot
more. In that case, Iceland has a lot of psycho-th. to perform.
Gr. by Ruud H.
"David Ames" <worldrecord@juno.com> schreef in bericht
news:1112008496.515086.46790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
quote:
>
> 99% Kosher wrote:
> in
>
> Fischer has written a letter to The Jewish Encyclopedia, stating that
> he is uncircumcised, and that he does not wish to be listed by them as
> a Jew. Perhaps in another lifetime he may be born into a family that
> observes the Jewish faith,
>
> David
>
| |
| Eustace 2005-03-28, 5:56 pm |
| Taylor Kingston wrote:
quote:
> sisternehoc@optician.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Actually it appears that, whatever his religious or political
> beliefs, Fischer is of 100% Jewish ancestry. Both his mother Regina,
> and his biological father, the Hungarian-born physicist Paul Nemenyi,
> were Jewish. See for example the books "Bobby Fischer Goes to War"
> (2004) page 306, and "Bobby Fischer, the Wandering King" (2003) page
> 22. The information was also published by the Philadelphia Inquirer in
> late 2002.
>
If the theory that the Aschenazi Jews are descendants of the Khazars and
not of the biblical Jews (and the theory has much scientific support),
claims of "jewish ancestry" has to be qualified. -Eustace
| |
| Taylor Kingston 2005-03-28, 5:56 pm |
| Eustace wrote:
quote:
> If the theory that the Aschenazi Jews are descendants of the Khazars
and
quote:
> not of the biblical Jews (and the theory has much scientific
support),
quote:
> claims of "jewish ancestry" has to be qualified. -Eustace
I have no expertise on this subject, so I wonder if you could tell us
where this "much scientific support" is found, naming specific
researchers and sources. I have seen this Khazar hypothesis before, but
only in unscientific, blatantly anti-Semitic propaganda.
| |
| Mike Murray 2005-03-28, 5:56 pm |
| On 28 Mar 2005 06:04:34 -0800, "Taylor Kingston"
<tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote:
quote:
>Eustace wrote:
>and
>support),
>
> I have no expertise on this subject, so I wonder if you could tell us
>where this "much scientific support" is found, naming specific
>researchers and sources. I have seen this Khazar hypothesis before, but
>only in unscientific, blatantly anti-Semitic propaganda.
Toward the end of his life, Arthur Koestler wrote a book called "The
Thirteenth Tribe" which advanced the Khazar hypothesis. Conspiracy
types hint that he was murdered because of it.
As you note, the neo-Nazis love this theory, since, to them, it
undermines the legitimacy of Israel.
| |
| Adrian MacNair 2005-03-28, 5:56 pm |
| <sisternehoc@optician.com> wrote in message
news:1111954954.516884.277580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
quote:
> He's only 50% Jewish.
Are you dividing ethnicity into percentiles? That's about the most
ridiculous thing I've ever read! If my mother is German and my father is
third generation Canadian of Scottish decent, where do we put the
percentages? Don't forget the 0.000000001% for our links to the original
African tribes from whence we came.
| |
| Taylor Kingston 2005-03-28, 5:56 pm |
|
Mike Murray wrote:
quote:
> Toward the end of his life, Arthur Koestler wrote a book called "The
> Thirteenth Tribe" which advanced the Khazar hypothesis. Conspiracy
> types hint that he was murdered because of it.
>
> As you note, the neo-Nazis love this theory, since, to them, it
> undermines the legitimacy of Israel.
Thanks for the information, Mike. I am not too familiar with
Koestler's work, but I understand he was primarily a novelist and
political journalist, with later side trips into philosophy and
parapsychology. Do you know what credentials he had as an historian or
archaeologist, that would give his "13th Tribe" any scientific
validity?
| |
| Kevin Brook 2005-03-28, 5:57 pm |
| Taylor Kingston wrote:
quote:
> I have no expertise on this subject, so I wonder if you could tell us
> where this "much scientific support" is found, naming specific
> researchers and sources.
1.
Eustace is wrong. It has been demonstrated in several different ways
that Russian Jews descend mostly from Israelites. The Khazar
component is only about 10 percent, and there's a Slavic component too
but it is also just around 10 percent, and altogether it seems like
the Israelite element is 75 percent. (These are rough estimates based
on genetic data.) The only people who still deny that Russian Jews
are Israelites are those who ignore genetic reality.
For specific documentation, consult:
"The Origins of East European Jews" by Kevin Brook, in _Russian
History/Histoire Russe_ volume 30, numbers 1-2 (Spring-Summer 2003
issue), pages 1-22.
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html
http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora.html
http://www.khazaria.com/westernjews.html
and the bibliographic sources listed at
http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-biblio/sec13.html
2.
Mr. Fischer is still an Israelite/Judean/Ashkenaz even though he is
not of the Jewish faith -- i.e., he's Judean but not Jewish. One
cannot change one's ancestry.
| |
| Sam Sloan 2005-03-28, 5:57 pm |
| On 28 Mar 2005 09:47:13 -0800, "Taylor Kingston"
<tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote:
quote:
>
>Mike Murray wrote:
>
> Thanks for the information, Mike. I am not too familiar with
>Koestler's work, but I understand he was primarily a novelist and
>political journalist, with later side trips into philosophy and
>parapsychology. Do you know what credentials he had as an historian or
>archaeologist, that would give his "13th Tribe" any scientific
>validity?
I am surprised that you are not familiar with this. Koestler's book is
based on known historical facts. It is undisputed that in the 9th
Century in the area of Kiev there was a large tribe that converted to
Judiasm. Koestler contends that the Soviet Jews who are centered
around the area of Kiev today or who now live in Brighton Beach are
those same Khazars who converted in the 9th century.
The contrary view is that the Khazars were wiped out by Genghis Khan
in the 13th century and none of them are alive today and that the
Soviet Jews are all immigrants from Israel.
My personal opinion is that Keostler is probably right. I have never
seen a refutation published. These have been a lot of studies which
continue to done on this subject. Unfortunately, this is such a
political issue that the truth will probably never be known and
accepted.
Sam Sloan
| |
| Taylor Kingston 2005-03-28, 9:52 pm |
|
Sam Sloan wrote:
quote:
> I am surprised that you are not familiar with this.
Sam, I am just full of surprises. I suppose it is unusual for someone
on this group to admit he does not know about something, but there it
is.
| |
| Eustace 2005-03-28, 9:53 pm |
| Sam Sloan wrote:
quote:
> On 28 Mar 2005 09:47:13 -0800, "Taylor Kingston"
> <tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I am surprised that you are not familiar with this. Koestler's book is
> based on known historical facts. It is undisputed that in the 9th
> Century in the area of Kiev there was a large tribe that converted to
> Judiasm. Koestler contends that the Soviet Jews who are centered
> around the area of Kiev today or who now live in Brighton Beach are
> those same Khazars who converted in the 9th century.
>
> The contrary view is that the Khazars were wiped out by Genghis Khan
> in the 13th century and none of them are alive today and that the
> Soviet Jews are all immigrants from Israel.
>
> My personal opinion is that Keostler is probably right. I have never
> seen a refutation published. These have been a lot of studies which
> continue to done on this subject. Unfortunately, this is such a
> political issue that the truth will probably never be known and
> accepted.
>
> Sam Sloan
I read /The Thirteenth Tribe/ a couple of years ago, and that is my main
source. I had first heard about it a couple of years before that, and I
found it surprising and suspicious that I never had heard anything about
it (the theory or the book) in the last 20-25 years. I think it should
be much more widely known. As a historian, I found it convincing enough,
especially since, though not a historian, Koestler was a Jew himself,
and obviously proud of his Khazar ancestry. Since I have the book more
recent in my memory, let me add a couple of points/corrections.
The book contains a review of all the surviving few sources of Khazar
history, and the historical debate on the issue. It is revealing that a
major scholar/proponent of the theory who worked in Israel is totally
ignored by the Encyclopedia Judaica, something not surprising if we take
into account its implications...
The Khazars spread not only around Kiev, but account for basically all
the Jews of Central and Eastern Europe. The alternative theory would
have the Jews of Central and Eastern Europe having migrated east from
the area near the German/French frontier. Koestler discusses this in
detail and shows that this theory is improbable, and is not supported by
any historical evidence. These descendants of the Khazars, the Aschenazi
Jews account, if I remember correctly the figures in the book, to 11
million, compared with the 500,000 Shephardim Jews.
At the end of the book, Koestler also tackles the issue of the supposed
distinctive characteristics of the Jews, and concludes that was a lot of
intermarriage with the local communities where they lived, making them
more similar that these communities then among themselves.
Koestler's book, though interesting for the general public, is detailed
enough for a historian, containing references to all the primary sources
on the subject
As Sam says, the issue is still considered controversial, something to
be expected in this historical period... I was surprised to read that
the issue has been used in anti-Semitic propaganda as Taylor writes,
since the Nazis would hate this theory since it would undermine one the
their main tenets, that the Jews were a semitic race. But then,
nowadays, whoever is critical of Israel's occupation of the Palestinian
lands (Gaza strip, West Bank, and East Jerusalem) is branded as anti-Semite!
Regards,
Eustace
| |
| Eustace 2005-03-28, 9:53 pm |
| Kevin Brook wrote:
quote:
> Taylor Kingston wrote:
>
>
>
> 1.
> Eustace is wrong. It has been demonstrated in several different ways
> that Russian Jews descend mostly from Israelites. The Khazar
> component is only about 10 percent, and there's a Slavic component too
> but it is also just around 10 percent, and altogether it seems like
> the Israelite element is 75 percent. (These are rough estimates based
> on genetic data.) The only people who still deny that Russian Jews
> are Israelites are those who ignore genetic reality.
>
> For specific documentation, consult:
>
> "The Origins of East European Jews" by Kevin Brook, in _Russian
> History/Histoire Russe_ volume 30, numbers 1-2 (Spring-Summer 2003
> issue), pages 1-22.
>
> http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html
> http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora.html
> http://www.khazaria.com/westernjews.html
>
> and the bibliographic sources listed at
> http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-biblio/sec13.html
See my reply to Sam Sloan above
quote:
> 2.
> Mr. Fischer is still an Israelite/Judean/Ashkenaz even though he is
> not of the Jewish faith -- i.e., he's Judean but not Jewish. One
> cannot change one's ancestry.
I understand that the Encyclopedia Judaica accepted Fischer's arguments
(there is a photocopy of the reply in his webpage). It is clear to me
that he is neither of the Jewish faith, nor of Jewish ancestry, at least
until the Palestinian/Israeli conflict has been settled and the
scientific discussion has stopped being influenced by extraneous
political Zionist interests.
Regards,
Eustace
| |
| Chess One 2005-03-29, 6:20 pm |
| >>> Thanks for the information, Mike. I am not too familiar with[vbcol=seagreen]
Koestler wrote what is still possibly the best analysis of the process of
scientific discovery combined with its social acceptance in his title "The
Sleepwalkers" with a focus primarily on Kepler's discoveries, and his
struggle to accommodate his flash of insight of elliptical orbits into a
sort of Platonic theory.
Kepler continued to explore a scientific [mathematical] proof which
subsequently spanned the next 25 years - and the book notes other influences
together with its social acceptance, and struggles with authority [The
Catholic Church, in this case.]
Kepler certainly had a background of esotericism, [I think that is an apt
term, more so than 'parapsychology'] and wished to describe the period of
planetary orbits in Platonic terms, or harmonics.
This of course needs to be contrasted with the official world-view of
geo-centric Catholicism. In southern Europe Gallileo fell foul of that
encounter, and to the north was the truly eccentric experimenter Tycho de
Brae - Kepler wove his own path between these two poles, ab ovo, and sought
to resolve all in a mathematical meta-thesis.
Kepler was associated with Heidleberg University. His semitic inclinations
to science were not Jewish, but Egyptian, [BTW Copernicus admitted the same]
Artur Koestler wrote the famous novel "Darkness at Noon", which continued to
examine the social acceptance of new ideas in his own time - or the personal
and social tragedy of their rejection, in the case of this particular and
very sober novel.
Cordially, Phil Innes
[vbcol=seagreen]
| |
| The Masked Bishop 2005-03-29, 6:20 pm |
| >Fischer could perhaps come back as a Jew <
Fischer IS a Jew already. He and everyone else seem to forget that.
TMB
"David Ames" <worldrecord@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1111933720.014472.234390@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
quote:
> If you reap what you sow, Fischer could perhaps come back as a Jew in
> another lifetime, and might have to undergo the same sort of scorn and
> humiliation that he hands out.
>
> David Ames
>
>
| |
| 99% Kosher 2005-03-29, 6:20 pm |
| He should come back as Ray Gordon. This way he can continue to be a
lunatic without anyone paying attention to him 
| |
| Taylor Kingston 2005-03-29, 6:20 pm |
|
Eustace wrote:
quote:
> I was surprised to read that
> the issue has been used in anti-Semitic propaganda as Taylor writes,
> since the Nazis would hate this theory since it would undermine one
the
quote:
> their main tenets, that the Jews were a semitic race.
In the anti-Semitic literature I have seen, the argument was that if
today's Jews are ethnically Khazars, and not "real" Jews, they
therefore have no rightful claim on Biblical Judaism's homeland.
This same literature also said that Germany had effectively won World
War I by 1916, and that it was only because of Jewish treachery that
brought America into the war, that Germany's fortunes were reversed.
The thinly veiled implication was that the later Nazi genocide was
therefore understandable, perhaps even justified. An argument so
obviously wrong in so many ways I need not detail them.
From what I've gathered so far (an admittedly cursory scan), it
appears that the existence of the Khazar empire and its conversion to
Judaism in the 8th century CE was considered an established fact well
before Koestler's "Thirteenth Tribe" appeared. But Koestler's claim,
that modern Jews are mostly ethnic Khazars, is still the subject of
debate today and does not seem to be nearly as well accepted.
| |
| Mike Murray 2005-03-30, 3:55 am |
| On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:03:33 -0500, Eustace <emf@nospam.email.com>
wrote:
quote:
>I was surprised to read that
>the issue has been used in anti-Semitic propaganda as Taylor writes,
>since the Nazis would hate this theory since it would undermine one the
>their main tenets, that the Jews were a semitic race.
You underestimate the tolerance of fringe groups for cognitive
dissonance.
They cite the Khazar theory in one context:
http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs956b.html
other genetic theories in other contexts:
http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs952e.html
| |
| Mike Murray 2005-03-30, 3:55 am |
| On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 22:10:04 GMT, sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan)
wrote:
quote:
>The contrary view is that the Khazars were wiped out by Genghis Khan
>in the 13th century and none of them are alive today and that the
>Soviet Jews are all immigrants from Israel.
Another view is that the conversion primary involved the leadership
and didn't penetrate meaningfully to the majority of citizens. As I
understand it, the leadership traversed a rather unusual conversion
path, going from Christian to Jewish to Muslim over a couple of
centuries.
"Their supreme ruler is a Jew.... The rest of them have a religion
like the religion of the Turks." (Dunlop, The History Of The Khazars,
quoting Arab sources)
quote:
>My personal opinion is that Keostler is probably right. I have never
>seen a refutation published.
There have been numerous refutations. The question is whether or not
the refutations were definitive.
| |
| Mike Murray 2005-03-30, 3:55 am |
| On 28 Mar 2005 09:47:13 -0800, "Taylor Kingston"
<tkingston@chittenden.com> wrote:
quote:
>Mike Murray wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Thanks for the information, Mike. I am not too familiar with
>Koestler's work, but I understand he was primarily a novelist and
>political journalist, with later side trips into philosophy and
>parapsychology. Do you know what credentials he had as an historian or
>archaeologist, that would give his "13th Tribe" any scientific
>validity?
Here's one source, obviously not unbiased, which gives some background
and argues against Koestler, both from an historical and a genetic
standpoint:
http://www.think-israel.org/khazars.html
Koestler seems to fit Eric Hoffer's (remember him?) prototype of the
True Believer, swinging from one extreme to the other.
D.M. Dunlop's name keeps coming up. Here's a review of his book on the
"History of the Jewish Khazars". Unfortunately, you have to join up
to read it:
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/S...V19I6P100-1.htm
Amazon says the book is out of print.
| |
| Kevin Brook 2005-03-30, 3:55 am |
| Eustace wrote in message news:<d2a5td02iaj@enews3.newsguy.com>...
quote:
> I read /The Thirteenth Tribe/ a couple of years ago, and that is my main
> source.
That's the problem right there. It was written in 1974. Try
something more recent. And not Dunlop's "The History of the Jewish
Khazars"; that was written in the early 1950s and is thus even more
outdated.
quote:
> I found it surprising and suspicious that I never had heard anything about
> it (the theory or the book) in the last 20-25 years.
Suspicious? Nothing suspicious about it, you just weren't paying
attention. The Khazars and the theories that they have some ancestral
connection to modern Jews (in this case to Mountain Jews) are
mentioned on pages 38-39 in the recent N.Y. Times and L.A. Times
bestseller "The Orientalist" by Tom Reiss. And in many other places
besides. Nothing is being deliberately hidden, if that's what you're
implying.
quote:
> The book contains a review of all the surviving few sources of Khazar
> history
On the contrary, Koestler's book does not cover "all" the ground that
can be covered in Khazar studies, because only a portion of the
sources are discussed in it. For instance, Koestler does not discuss
the "Kievan Letter", which was not yet in print in that time, nor Abd
al-Jabbar ibn Muhammad al-Hamdani, nor "Denkart", nor the "Life of
Methodius", nor the "Life of Saint Zotikos", et cetera. Nor does it
cover any recent archaeological data.
quote:
> It is revealing that a major scholar/proponent of the theory who
> worked in Israel is totally ignored by the Encyclopedia Judaica,
> something not surprising if we take into account its implications...
It would be really surprising if an encyclopedia published in 1971
(Encyclopedia Judaica) would mention a book published in 1976 (The
Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler)...five years later.
quote:
> The Khazars spread not only around Kiev, but account for basically all
> the Jews of Central and Eastern Europe. The alternative theory would
> have the Jews of Central and Eastern Europe having migrated east from
> the area near the German/French frontier. Koestler discusses this in
> detail and shows that this theory is improbable, and is not supported by
> any historical evidence.
Koestler's demographic analysis is severely flawed. There is plenty
of evidence from OTHER historians about large-scale migrations of Jews
from West to East in medieval times. The best of these is Alexander
Beider's "A Dictionary of Ashkenazic Given Names" (Avotaynu, 2001),
which gives irrefutable evidence of the most comprehensive kind ever
compiled. Beider showed that the Western Jews outnumbered the Eastern
Jews by using name analysis and other historical records. The
controversy was resolved by that in combination with genetic testing.
quote:
> Koestler's book, though interesting for the general public, is detailed
> enough for a historian, containing references to all the primary sources
> on the subject
Koestler's bibliography is not so great, and his book does not contain
the level of detail that is necessary for a full study of this people.
If you want "references to all the primary sources on the subject"
visit http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-biblio/sec7.html and then take
another look at Koestler and see just how many sources are missing
from his coverage. And if you want to see just how much was missing
from his book, compare it with my book, "The Jews of Khazaria" (Jason
Aronson, 1999) and recent books and articles by Thomas Noonan, Roman
Kovalev, Svetlana Pletnyova, Peter Golden, and others. Koestler's
book is only a starting point.
| |
| Taylor Kingston 2005-03-30, 7:01 am |
| Eustace wrote:
quote:
> If the theory that the Aschenazi Jews are descendants of the Khazars
and
quote:
> not of the biblical Jews (and the theory has much scientific
support),
quote:
> claims of "jewish ancestry" has to be qualified. -Eustace
I have no expertise on this subject, so I wonder if you could tell us
where this "much scientific support" is found, naming specific
researchers and sources. I have seen this Khazar hypothesis before, but
only in unscientific, blatantly anti-Semitic propaganda.
| |
| Mike Murray 2005-03-30, 7:21 pm |
| On 27 Mar 2005 06:28:40 -0800, "David Ames" <worldrecord@juno.com>
wrote:
quote:
>If you reap what you sow, Fischer could perhaps come back as a Jew in
>another lifetime,
Are you referring to Nietzsche's doctrine of the Eternal Return? :-)
| |
| 99% Kosher 2005-03-30, 7:21 pm |
|
David Ames wrote:
quote:
> If you reap what you sow, Fischer could perhaps come back as a Jew in
> another lifetime, and might have to undergo the same sort of scorn
and
quote:
> humiliation that he hands out.
>
> David Ames
He is a Jew! What are you talking about?
| |
| Eustace 2005-03-30, 7:21 pm |
| Mike Murray wrote:
quote:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:03:33 -0500, Eustace <emf@nospam.email.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> You underestimate the tolerance of fringe groups for cognitive
> dissonance.
>
> They cite the Khazar theory in one context:
>
> http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs956b.html
>
> other genetic theories in other contexts:
>
> http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs952e.html
>
I believe I had come across an article Benjamin Friedman, and really
didn't know what to make of it (whether it was from a progressive or
reactionary standpoint), so I forwarded to a good friend of mine, a
progressive Jew in his 90s, whose judgment I trusted, so I haven't had
since any more interest in this author. -Eustace
| |
| Chess One 2005-03-30, 7:21 pm |
| > Jews by using name analysis and other historical records. The
quote:
> controversy was resolved by that in combination with genetic testing.
I note that an American-led team recently explored the genetic origins of
another semitic group, from Lebanon. I believe they concluded that these
people were indeed 'The Phoenicians.'
Waddell mentions in his Phoenician Origin of the Britons that Sumerians were
trading with the Britons, even migrating to Britain 'long before Brutus'
time', which would be 1100BC.
Hiram, a Phoenician King ventured west, but Gilgamesh long before him did
the same seeking Kassisadra [place of]. Would you know if these people have
some genetic or other link with the Khazars? And did you cite some genetic
studies in your book?
[And a complete aside: Do you know who are these non-Jewish Hebrew-speaking
arabs - a tribe that Patrick O'Brian mentions in his novels]
Cordially, Phil Innes
quote:
>
> Koestler's bibliography is not so great, and his book does not contain
> the level of detail that is necessary for a full study of this people.
> If you want "references to all the primary sources on the subject"
> visit http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-biblio/sec7.html and then take
> another look at Koestler and see just how many sources are missing
> from his coverage. And if you want to see just how much was missing
> from his book, compare it with my book, "The Jews of Khazaria" (Jason
> Aronson, 1999) and recent books and articles by Thomas Noonan, Roman
> Kovalev, Svetlana Pletnyova, Peter Golden, and others. Koestler's
> book is only a starting point.
| |
| oxper44 2005-04-01, 3:54 am |
| And what, if Fischer refused to accept that "religion"? His situation would
be the same as it is, currently. He is a European male, despite the religion
of his European parents, because there is not one, so-called European "Jew",
who can trace her ancestry back to Moses, Abraham, or any of the Jews, who
came out of Africa (Egypt). European, CAUCASION, Jews, are not a race,
tribe, nor ethnicity. They are European (white) Khazars, who converted to
(religious) Judaism.
"David Ames" <worldrecord@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1112008496.515086.46790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
quote:
>
> Fischer has written a letter to The Jewish Encyclopedia, stating that
> he is uncircumcised, and that he does not wish to be listed by them as
> a Jew. Perhaps in another lifetime he may be born into a family that
> observes the Jewish faith,
>
> David
>
>
| |
| Taylor Kingston 2005-04-01, 5:58 pm |
|
Eustace wrote:
quote:
> Mike Murray wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Dear Taylor. <snip>
Eustace, I believe you meant to address your post to Mr. Murray, who
was illustrating the capacity of fringe groups for Orwellian
doublethink. I tend to agree with what Mr. Murray has written in this
thread, but I did not write the particular post to which you are
replying.
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