Chess politics - Chess Drug Testing

Author

Chess Drug Testing

George John

2005-02-04, 12:41 pm

curtains wrote:

quote:

> Just in case anyone wonders, I'm very very anti-drug testing, and
> would support and endorse any public statement that denounces the
> practice.

Greg,

This is the starting point for me, too. I'm 100% opposed to any drug
testing at the amateur level. Where the discussion becomes more
complicated is how to handle professional chess. I would like that to
be 100% free of testing, too. That said, the USCF will need to be
careful to avoid adopting any hard-line, anti-drug testing policy that
might seriously hurt our professional players.

We need to talk with our professional players, whose livelihoods may be
on the line, first. If they fully support the USCF coming out 100%
against drug testing, then I all for it, except for one other concern.

The USCF is the FIDE chapter in the United States. If the USCF adopts
a sufficiently hard-line position against drug testing, that might
cause the USCF to lose its standing with FIDE.

We would need to fully understand what losing our FIDE standing might
mean to the USCF. It may be possible that we would want to take a 100%
hard-line, anti-drug testing stance even if it were to cost us our
standing with FIDE. It's possible that some day we might want to leave
FIDE for other reasons, too. My point is that's something that must be
sufficiently researched and discussed first, with a clear understanding
what the ramifications would be to the USCF and chess in the United
States, before we were to sign off on such a policy.

Best regards,

George John

[SNIP]

Chess One

2005-02-04, 12:41 pm

"George John" <george@neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:1107474409.746108.166970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

quote:

> The USCF is the FIDE chapter in the United States. If the USCF adopts
> a sufficiently hard-line position against drug testing, that might
> cause the USCF to lose its standing with FIDE.

But regain it with the players. Its a choice George. Phil

quote:

> We would need to fully understand what losing our FIDE standing might
> mean to the USCF. It may be possible that we would want to take a 100%
> hard-line, anti-drug testing stance even if it were to cost us our
> standing with FIDE. It's possible that some day we might want to leave
> FIDE for other reasons, too. My point is that's something that must be
> sufficiently researched and discussed first, with a clear understanding
> what the ramifications would be to the USCF and chess in the United
> States, before we were to sign off on such a policy.
>
> Best regards,
>
> George John
>
> [SNIP]
>

George John

2005-02-04, 12:41 pm

"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:LfzMd.5799$ya6.2072@trndny01...

quote:

>
> "George John" <george@neosoft.com> wrote in message
> news:1107474409.746108.166970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> But regain it with the players. Its a choice George. Phil

Phil,

If I had to choose between the FIDE and the players, I'd take the players in
a second.

Best regards,

George

[SNIP]

Parrthenon

2005-02-04, 12:41 pm

< "I can't think of a better way than drug testing to drive people away from
chess."> GM Larry Evans.

<If I had to choose between the FIDE and the players, I'd take the players in a
second.> -- George John

<We would need to fully understand what losing our FIDE standing might mean to
the USCF. It may be possible that we would want to take a 100% hard-line,
anti-drug testing stance even if it were to cost us our standing with FIDE.
It's possible that some day we might want to leave FIDE for other reasons, too.
My point is that's something that must be sufficiently researched and
discussed first, with a clear understanding what the ramifications would be
to the USCF and chess in the United States, before we were to sign off on
such a policy.> -- George John

If the USCF opts out of drug testing, our players can do as they wish. They
may have themselves tested until not a drop of blood remains in their depleted
bodies, if such is their wish. The threat of kicking the USCF out of FIDE and
recognizing some rump group is an absurdity. Every major chess politician in
Europe understands this point, but we hear the same poltroonery from our
politicians over here, depending on the calculation that the sheer ignorance of
international chess politics within our borders will make their claim
plausible.

As I have had occasion to note before, every time there has been
threatened uprisings among the Delegates against FIDE's lies and broken rules
(there is no rule of law in FIDE) FIDE has dispatched teams of emissaries,
including the crook Emanuel Omuku (much beloved by our FIDE "team" at one time)
and that chiropractor Dr. Press (who was paid by the USCF to attend the U.S.
Open on behalf of Tim Redman and other pro-drug testers) to tamp down the
opposition. These emissaries then work closely with our "team" to sell out
American and true chess interests to FIDE.

FIDE understands that it needs the USCF or, more accurately, a
credible American branch far more than the USCF needs it. America needs deeds,
not more words from candidates who say they oppose testing but tacitcly go
along to get along once they get elected.

So it goes.

We have another candidate in George John who will do what he can to help
the FIDE politicians destroy the careers of those who will not crawl while
claiming he would choose the players over FIDE.

Of course I understand that George does not want careers to be destroyed or
bureaucracies of arrogant drug testers in chess, but he will do nothing about
it. His de facto position is to use whatever authority he will have, if
elected, to support the status quo backed by Doyle, Kelleher and Tanner,
members of our FIDE "team."

That status quo now includes out of competition drug testing in chess, as GM
Evans and I predicted it would years ago.. George will likely recollect that
when we wrote it was coming, the Messrs. Fernandez and Eade scoffed at us and
said we were just scare-mongering. "It can't happen here!" they insisted. "It
will never happen here!"

We replied that it would come -- in time -- unless the USCF takes a strong
stand against it now, including dropping out of FIDE.

Massive testing in scholastic tournaments, a sheer destructive force, is also
only a matter of time because that's where the real moolah and power resides.

________________________________________________________________
"FIDE has made its decision. Players who refuse to be drug tested will not be
able to play chess." -- Dr. Press, co-founder of the FIDE Medical Commission.

Fifiela

2005-02-04, 12:41 pm

<<<If the USCF adopts
a sufficiently hard-line position against drug testing, that might
cause the USCF to lose its standing with FIDE.>>>

So Sad.....Bye-Bye

Chess One

2005-02-04, 12:41 pm

"George John" <george@neosoft.com> wrote in message
news:TRBMd.6642$sr1.5022@fe2.texas.rr.com...

quote:

>
> "Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:LfzMd.5799$ya6.2072@trndny01...
>
> Phil,
>
> If I had to choose between the FIDE and the players, I'd take the players
> in a second.

I note that Larry Parr has also replied to your comment George. I began, and
he continued, to make the wider point that the choice might also be 'between
the USCF and the players'.

Not only for this reason, but for other even less creditable assaults on the
integrity of players which are inane distractions and inhibitions to
players, some current events are proceeding without either FIDE or USCF.

Its no longer a hypothetical situation - the game is on! Whether the subject
be drug testing or other nonsense foisted on players.

Phil Innes

quote:

> Best regards,
>
> George
>
> [SNIP]
>
>
>

George John

2005-02-04, 12:41 pm

"Parrthenon" <parrthenon@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20050203231901.04358.00000354@mb-m12.news.cs.com...

Larry,

[SNIP]

quote:

> Of course I understand that George does not want careers to be destroyed
> or
> bureaucracies of arrogant drug testers in chess, but he will do nothing
> about
> it.

Why do you think this? I have already stated that my starting position is
100% opposition to drug testing. So, my personal inclination is to take a
100% hard-line stance against it. However, I realize what I want isn't what
is always in the best interests of everyone else. If I'm in a position of
power, I want to make informed decisions, and that includes consulting with
those who are most affected, our professional chess players.

If opposition to drug testing is supported by our professional players,
whose livelihoods are on the line, and we can be reasonably certain the USCF
and chess in the United States would not be gravely injured, I am fully
prepared to move forward on a 100% hard-line, anti-drug testing policy.

WRT other country's chess federations taking a hard-line position, too, I'm
am prepared to go it alone, but think opposition to bad FIDE policy will be
more effective if our allies are with us, too, so reasonable steps should be
taken to bring as many other countries' federations into the fold first.
But, we can't wait forever for them to join us, and need to be prepared to
go forward on our own if necessary.

quote:

> His de facto position is to use whatever authority he will have, if
> elected, to support the status quo backed by Doyle, Kelleher and Tanner,
> members of our FIDE "team."

Is what I have stated the status quo policy? If so, please refer me to the
posted, current policy so that I may read it.

quote:

> That status quo now includes out of competition drug testing in chess, as
> GM
> Evans and I predicted it would years ago.. George will likely recollect
> that
> when we wrote it was coming, the Messrs. Fernandez and Eade scoffed at us
> and
> said we were just scare-mongering. "It can't happen here!" they insisted.
> "It
> will never happen here!"

SFAIK, it has not happened here. Has it?

quote:

> We replied that it would come -- in time -- unless the USCF takes a strong
> stand against it now, including dropping out of FIDE.
>
> Massive testing in scholastic tournaments, a sheer destructive force, is
> also
> only a matter of time because that's where the real moolah and power
> resides.

You have argued this before. I have seen no evidence that there is any risk
of the current, limited FIDE drug testing at the professional level spilling
over into scholastic chess in the United States. I am interested in
learning if FIDE has done any recent testing at world youth events. I was
shocked when I learned they had been doing that, although that was years
ago. I haven't heard of anything recent, nor of any plans to do so.

Best regards,

George John

George John

2005-02-04, 12:41 pm

"Fifiela" <fifiela@aol.comNOWAY> wrote in message
news:20050204023757.04956.00000369@mb-m25.aol.com...

quote:

> <<<If the USCF adopts
> a sufficiently hard-line position against drug testing, that might
> cause the USCF to lose its standing with FIDE.>>>
>
> So Sad.....Bye-Bye

Just to be VERY clear, I am fully prepared to lose our standing with FIDE
for this and/or other reasons. I only want to make reasonably certain that
in doing so we won't gravely hurt the USCF and chess in the United States,
and ruin the lives of our professional players.

My natural inclination is to oppose drug testing, because I see absolutely
no reason to have it. It was the result of FIDE's attempt to get chess into
the Olympics, which seems to have been similar to trying to push a square
peg into a round hole. Drug testing makes sense in athletics. SFAIK, it
makes no sense in chess.

Best regards,

George John

George John

2005-02-04, 12:41 pm

All,

For those who either do not know or may have forgotten, the 2001 Board
of Delegates passed the following motions (which I voted in favor of):

*************************************************************
DM01-07 NDM 01-117 (Substitute for ADM01-61) - Joel Benjamin (NY), Mike
Goodall (CA/N) - The Delegates believe that drug testing is unnecessary
in chess and urge FIDE to limit testing only to events where it is
absolutely essential for qualification into the Olympic Games. PASSED.
**************************************************************
DM01-10 ADM01-64 - Bill Goichberg (NY), and Joel Benjamin (NY) - USCF's
FIDE representatives are instructed to actively campaign at all FIDE
meetings against the practice of requiring drug testing at any chess
tournament or match. PASSED
***************************************************************

Two motions failed (which I voted against):

***************************************************************
DM01-08 ADM01-62 - Mike Goodall (CA/N), Sam Sloan (NY / PA) - That the
United States Chess Federation shall not require, participate in or be
in any way involved in any program which involves the drug testing of
chess-players. No chessplayer shall ever be required to submit to any
drug or anti-doping test as a condition for participating in or
receiving a prize in any chess event rated, conducted or reported by
the United Chess Federation. No chess event held anywhere within the
territorial jurisdiction of the United States of America shall require
or be involved in the drug testing of chessplayers in any way whatever.
FAILED
*****************************************************************
DM01-09 ADM 01-63 - Bill Goichberg, ( NY), Joel Benjamin, (NY) -
Mandatory or random drug testing is prohibited at all USCF-rated
events. FAILED
*****************************************************************

I could not find any drug testing motions in the minutes of the 2002,
2003, and 2004 Board of Delegates meetings. The only mention of drug
testing is in the 2002 and 2003 FIDE and Olympic Participation
Committee reports.

One possible conclusion is only the USCF Board of Delegates could vote
in favor of a 100% hard-line, anti-drug policy, since it seems they
explicitly rejected such a policy in 2001, and adopted a compromise
policy instead, one which is strongly opposed to drug testing in nearly
all events, but not all.

Best regards,

George John