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Home > Archive > Chess politics > January 2005 > Chapter structure (Mensa model) (for RSH)
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Chapter structure (Mensa model) (for RSH)
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| petrelet@sbcglobal.net 2004-12-29, 5:46 pm |
| Haasie, I would like to demystify this whole "Mensa model" thing a bit,
and actually maybe discuss it some. Basically, what you're talking
about is a chapter structure, right? Where there would be local
chapters of the USCF, which are getting some funds out of national
dues? A lot of associations, including my employer, are in fact doing
that sort of thing, with the idea of promoting local events and
affiliation with the association on a local basis. Mensa didn't invent
this, btw, I don't think.
The first problem that comes up, though, is, what are you planning to
actually do with all the existing state and local chess associations
and clubs in existence? Are you suggesting that they reorganize
themselves and -become- chapters of the USCF? Do you think you will
convince them to do that? I rather suspect they value their autonomy
too much. Or are you suggesting that the USCF organize what would
essentially be a competing and parallel network of local entities? Do
you think that this is going to fly with the delegates, most of whom
are already organizers in the state and local associations? Or do you
have something else in mind?
Are there -elements- of this model, such as rebates on dues from the
national office to local affiliated groups, which you think could be
adopted without completely reorganizing everything?
By the way, I feel it's my duty to point out that when you write things
like "ONLY the Mensa model can save us", you begin to sound just a
teensy bit like a religious fanatic :-) All statements to the effect
that "ONLY" one particular organizational form will solve our problems
are false, in my view.
petrel
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| Altes Wiesel 2004-12-31, 12:46 am |
| <petrelet@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1104335163.262255.277100@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
quote:
> Haasie, I would like to demystify this whole "Mensa model" thing a bit,
> and actually maybe discuss it some.
Ah, the joy of watching the naive.
- Der Wiesel
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| RSHaas 2005-01-01, 12:46 am |
| I just found this message after several days. AOL's newsgroup service
leaves out many messages, particularly the root of a new thread.
Now.. I believe the ideal national chess federation would be one organized
somewhat along the lines of Mensa, at least to the extent that its HQ would
collect national dues and then share a portion with an umbrella org positioned
directly over the basic market for organized chess.. which in most cases would
be the metropolitan area. Sharing the dues saves the locals the agony of
raising local money in a second operation after having raised national dues.
If done by the USCF, for example, there would be in my area the Tampa Bay
Metropolitan District Organization (DO), similar to the Tampa Bay Mensa local
chapter. Club and individual affiliates would continue to exist.
Each DO would continually assess the condition of organized chess in its
area.. and do what it could to help maintain activity and to expand it if
possible. The DO could run events itself, partner with individual promoters,
partner with other DO's, and state associations. HQ would set out a list of
approved projects that a DO could take on. If there were say 25 different
kinds of acceptable projects, a DO would select a few to work on. No one in HQ
would expect the DO to engage all 25.. just some that were needed in the given
area. For example, if one District was already tournament rich, the DO would
engage non-tournament chess projects. Another District that was tournament
poor might run tournaments. Or there could be a blend. Suppose a given
District had a weak promoter, someone who couldn't really run tournaments that
were up to the District's potential. The DO might partner with the individual
promoter to improve the tournament offerings in that area.
Would the delegates et al approve of such a thing.. the Mensa treatment for
chess? Right now, I think not. In the distant future they might. They'd have
to see that a funded DO could benefit their effort if they chose to partner
with it and offset some of their risks.
Why would the state wonkies care? Few state associations actually front
money for chess tournaments statewide. Some, but not many, actually front
money for their own state opens, but not for a wide range of tournaments held
throughout a state. DO's, for example, could bid for the state open.
By the way, if this scheme were done Haasie style, one item forbidden to the
DO's would be the publication of "metro chess newsletters." Newsletters would
consume all of the $10 per and leave the DO's totally impotent, just like most
state associations are impotent after spending all their money on their
newsletters, one of my main complaints against state chess associations. They
all stink, in my opinion.
OK,.. here is one of the real advantages of the Mensa scheme. Suppose a
would-be Tampa Bay DO started out with just $3000. Tampa is tournament poor,
so the DO might choose to run four tournaments a year. Suppose they judged
their area well.. and just broke even on four tournaments. They'd still have
their $3000 on hand at the end of the year. OK.. in year two Tampa gets
another $3000 in the DO kitty. They can take on new projects or maybe expand
the tournaments somewhat. Now... a typical individual promoter who might work
the Tampa area might risk $3000. But he is unlikely to add another $3000 in
his second year of operation.. whereas the DO would. OK... going back to year
one, suppose the Tampa Bay DO misjudged their area and lost $1500 in the year.
They produced four tournaments that would otherwise not be produced in chess
dead Tampa but they lost money. So, they end their first year with $1500 in
the kitty. At that point the typical individual promoter would pack it in...
and Tampa Bay would go chess dead again. But not the Tampa DO. They get
another $3000 for their second year.. and now they have $4500 for chess
promotional projects.
And.. what would those first year losses mean to me, a common member. In
effect, I would have seen $10 of my dues go from HQ to Tampa DO. They lost
half their money during the year, $5 of it my money. But... I got four
tournaments in which to play... four tournaments that are not there now and
have never been there in chess deal Tampa. $5.. big deal. Here's another $10
for year two. Go for it. I can't wait to see Tampa's new schedule. I know
that individual promoter Bozo Jones would have fled the scene after his first
loss. He is not going to stand in there and put up more of his own money.
Below Bill Goichberg, I for one am not impressed with individual tournament
promoters... not enough to take the position that they alone should have sole
access to the chess market. Too many can't take the risks for long. When they
leave, they take their chess working capital with them... and the player /
members have no mechanism by which they can revitalize or sustain activity.
But.. a DO would remain in place. The faces that ran the DO might change.. but
the DO and its money would still be there for a new crew to take over.
The Mensa scheme as it would be adapted for chess is really a fantastic
idea, the best ever for chess. But almost no one likes it now.
By the way, regarding the examples of losses... I accept the likelihood
that promoting chess will cost money. In USCF culture, we hope for corporate
sponsorship. In other words, we hope someone other than our chess playing
selves will take a big loss for the "great chess cause." Well, lacking broad
scale outside sponsorship (the loss taker), I take the postion that if chess is
such a "great cause," then the chess players themselves should put up enough
margin of chess oriented working capital to push chess along and promote it at
the local level at least. That can only be done via a Mensa type treatment...
and thus such a system should be organic to the ideal national chess
federation.
RSHaas
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| RSHaas 2005-01-01, 12:46 am |
| "A lot of associations, including my employer, are in fact doing that sort of
thing, with the idea of promoting local events and affiliation with the
association on a local basis. Mensa didn't invent
this, btw, I don't think." (petrel)
===========
I never claimed Mensa was the first at this sort of thing. It happens to be
the only one I knew about in the period 1985-1990 when I began to seriously
consider it for chess.
The evidence that many other associations share a portion of their national
dues is all the more reason for the USCF to take a serious look at the Mensa
type scheme. Maybe it should have been doing the same thing all these years.
By the way.. we can have a national chess federation without a Mensa
treatment. It just won't be an ideal national chess federation.
RSHaas
| |
| HAASpittle 2005-01-03, 5:46 pm |
| Days ago I posted a long reply to Petrel but it never made it onto rgcp due to
problems with AOL's ng service. I'm not sure this post will stick. Once I
have more confidence in AOL, I will reply again.
Haas
| |
| sandirhodes 2005-01-03, 5:46 pm |
| I saw it.
"HAASpittle" <haaspittle@aol.com> wrote in message news:20050103100617.06431.00001779@mb-m26.aol.com...
quote:
> Days ago I posted a long reply to Petrel but it never made it onto rgcp due to
> problems with AOL's ng service. I'm not sure this post will stick. Once I
> have more confidence in AOL, I will reply again.
>
> Haas
| |
| Kiddon 2005-01-03, 5:46 pm |
|
RSHaas wrote:
quote:
> I just found this message after several days. AOL's newsgroup
service
quote:
> leaves out many messages, particularly the root of a new thread.
______________________________
Haasie:
It's time to dump your AOL service and try something new. I just
switched to Verison/MSN DSL with a wireless network in my house. It
has been much, much faster than my old AOL dial-up service, and only
costs $5 bucks more per month. Plus they threw in the hardware I
needed to go wireless. (No, I'm not a salesman). My AOL e-mail will
go dark in a couple of weeks. One side benefit to the wireless
network: now that my 13 yr. old son can pop open his laptop anywhere
in the house, he has taken back to chess (on-line at least) after a
nearly 2 yr. layoff. Rather than one of the pay services, he has been
playing for free on Yahoo and likes it.
kiddon
p.s. Yes, I am aware of the dangers of the internet and am monitoring
the sites he visits.
kd
| |
|
|
Kiddon wrote:
quote:
> RSHaas wrote:
> service
>
> ______________________________
>
> Haasie:
>
> It's time to dump your AOL service and try something new. I just
> switched to Verison/MSN DSL with a wireless network in my house. It
> has been much, much faster than my old AOL dial-up service, and only
> costs $5 bucks more per month. Plus they threw in the hardware I
> needed to go wireless. (No, I'm not a salesman). My AOL e-mail will
> go dark in a couple of weeks. One side benefit to the wireless
> network: now that my 13 yr. old son can pop open his laptop anywhere
> in the house, he has taken back to chess (on-line at least) after a
> nearly 2 yr. layoff. Rather than one of the pay services, he has
been
quote:
> playing for free on Yahoo and likes it.
He may also want to try the gamecolony site. It has a pretty decent set
up as well.
Rob
quote:
> kiddon
>
> p.s. Yes, I am aware of the dangers of the internet and am
monitoring
quote:
> the sites he visits.
>
> kd
| |
| Kiddon 2005-01-03, 5:46 pm |
|
Rob wrote:
quote:
> Kiddon wrote:
It[vbcol=seagreen]
only[vbcol=seagreen]
will[vbcol=seagreen]
anywhere[vbcol=seagreen]
> been
>
> He may also want to try the gamecolony site. It has a pretty decent
set[vbcol=seagreen]
> up as well.
> Rob
> monitoring
___________________________
I did check out gamecolony.com and played a free game there myself
earlier today. The only problem I noted was the focus on $$ and
"fee-based" games associated with the site. Even though he has played
in several fee-based OTB tournaments and won a few small prizes, I
don't think I'll point him in that direction for internet play.
kiddon
| |
| Kiddon 2005-01-06, 5:46 pm |
|
Rob wrote:
quote:
> Kiddon wrote:
It[vbcol=seagreen]
only[vbcol=seagreen]
will[vbcol=seagreen]
anywhere[vbcol=seagreen]
> been
>
> He may also want to try the gamecolony site. It has a pretty decent
set[vbcol=seagreen]
> up as well.
> Rob
> monitoring
___________________________
I did check out gamecolony.com and played a free game there myself
earlier today. The only problem I noted was the focus on $$ and
"fee-based" games associated with the site. Even though he has played
in several fee-based OTB tournaments and won a few small prizes, I
don't think I'll point him in that direction for internet play.
kiddon
| |
| sandirhodes 2005-01-08, 6:46 am |
| I saw it.
"HAASpittle" <haaspittle@aol.com> wrote in message news:20050103100617.06431.00001779@mb-m26.aol.com...
quote:
> Days ago I posted a long reply to Petrel but it never made it onto rgcp due to
> problems with AOL's ng service. I'm not sure this post will stick. Once I
> have more confidence in AOL, I will reply again.
>
> Haas
| |
| HAASpittle 2005-01-08, 6:46 am |
| Days ago I posted a long reply to Petrel but it never made it onto rgcp due to
problems with AOL's ng service. I'm not sure this post will stick. Once I
have more confidence in AOL, I will reply again.
Haas
| |
|
|
Kiddon wrote:
quote:
> RSHaas wrote:
> service
>
> ______________________________
>
> Haasie:
>
> It's time to dump your AOL service and try something new. I just
> switched to Verison/MSN DSL with a wireless network in my house. It
> has been much, much faster than my old AOL dial-up service, and only
> costs $5 bucks more per month. Plus they threw in the hardware I
> needed to go wireless. (No, I'm not a salesman). My AOL e-mail will
> go dark in a couple of weeks. One side benefit to the wireless
> network: now that my 13 yr. old son can pop open his laptop anywhere
> in the house, he has taken back to chess (on-line at least) after a
> nearly 2 yr. layoff. Rather than one of the pay services, he has
been
quote:
> playing for free on Yahoo and likes it.
He may also want to try the gamecolony site. It has a pretty decent set
up as well.
Rob
quote:
> kiddon
>
> p.s. Yes, I am aware of the dangers of the internet and am
monitoring
quote:
> the sites he visits.
>
> kd
| |
| Kiddon 2005-01-08, 6:46 am |
|
RSHaas wrote:
quote:
> I just found this message after several days. AOL's newsgroup
service
quote:
> leaves out many messages, particularly the root of a new thread.
______________________________
Haasie:
It's time to dump your AOL service and try something new. I just
switched to Verison/MSN DSL with a wireless network in my house. It
has been much, much faster than my old AOL dial-up service, and only
costs $5 bucks more per month. Plus they threw in the hardware I
needed to go wireless. (No, I'm not a salesman). My AOL e-mail will
go dark in a couple of weeks. One side benefit to the wireless
network: now that my 13 yr. old son can pop open his laptop anywhere
in the house, he has taken back to chess (on-line at least) after a
nearly 2 yr. layoff. Rather than one of the pay services, he has been
playing for free on Yahoo and likes it.
kiddon
p.s. Yes, I am aware of the dangers of the internet and am monitoring
the sites he visits.
kd
| |
| OldHaasie 2005-01-09, 12:45 am |
| Interesting. My reply took eight days to show up on this ng.
Old Haasie
| |
|
|
OldHaasie wrote:
quote:
> Interesting. My reply took eight days to show up on this ng.
>
> Old Haasie
Post using Google. It's much more reliable.
| |
| sandirhodes 2005-01-09, 5:46 pm |
| More precisely, it took 8 days for you to see it posted on this ng, regardless of when it did.
"OldHaasie" <oldhaasie@aol.com> wrote in message news:20050108200506.26083.00000030@mb-m05.aol.com...
quote:
> Interesting. My reply took eight days to show up on this ng.
>
> Old Haasie
| |
| HAASpittle 2005-01-10, 6:45 am |
| Days ago I posted a long reply to Petrel but it never made it onto rgcp due to
problems with AOL's ng service. I'm not sure this post will stick. Once I
have more confidence in AOL, I will reply again.
Haas
| |
|
|
OldHaasie wrote:
quote:
> Interesting. My reply took eight days to show up on this ng.
>
> Old Haasie
Post using Google. It's much more reliable.
| |
| OldHaasie 2005-01-15, 12:46 am |
| Interesting. My reply took eight days to show up on this ng.
Old Haasie
| |
|
|
OldHaasie wrote:
quote:
> Interesting. My reply took eight days to show up on this ng.
>
> Old Haasie
Post using Google. It's much more reliable.
| |
| sandirhodes 2005-01-15, 12:46 am |
| More precisely, it took 8 days for you to see it posted on this ng, regardless of when it did.
"OldHaasie" <oldhaasie@aol.com> wrote in message news:20050108200506.26083.00000030@mb-m05.aol.com...
quote:
> Interesting. My reply took eight days to show up on this ng.
>
> Old Haasie
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