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Home > Archive > Chess politics > November 2004 > FIDE and Calvia
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| joe mccarron 2004-11-03, 5:47 pm |
| Ok so I understand USCF's no confidence motion, despite being timely
filed, wasn't addressed. Did USCF protest or did they just sit quietly
with thier hands in thier laps?
What about Kasparov or Kramniks statements? Were these also politely
ignored?
What about plans for a match cycle?
What about any of the dozen or so points raised in the ACP email?
Did they address *anything* of substance. Alls I hear about are the
extreme rhetoric from each side on the Azmaiparashvili beating.
Assumign nothing was done, did they at least give some sort of a
timeline when something might be done?
Other than Larry Parrs post, I can't find any information on this at
all.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can direct me to info on this.
| |
| Chess One 2004-11-03, 5:47 pm |
| Don e-mailed yesterday to say that he is on his way home, and will catch up
on his messages in a few days, presumably making a report here too, where he
often posts. Phil
"joe mccarron" <joemccarron@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5f195d2e.0411030926.40616c31@posting.google.com...
quote:
> Ok so I understand USCF's no confidence motion, despite being timely
> filed, wasn't addressed. Did USCF protest or did they just sit quietly
> with thier hands in thier laps?
>
> What about Kasparov or Kramniks statements? Were these also politely
> ignored?
>
> What about plans for a match cycle?
>
> What about any of the dozen or so points raised in the ACP email?
>
> Did they address *anything* of substance. Alls I hear about are the
> extreme rhetoric from each side on the Azmaiparashvili beating.
>
> Assumign nothing was done, did they at least give some sort of a
> timeline when something might be done?
>
> Other than Larry Parrs post, I can't find any information on this at
> all.
>
> Thanks in advance to anyone who can direct me to info on this.
| |
| Doctor SBD 2004-11-03, 5:47 pm |
| >Don e-mailed yesterday to say that he is on his way home, and will catch up
quote:
>on his messages in a few days, presumably making a report here too, where he
>often posts.
Wasn't he one of the people head-butted by the FIDE VP?
SBD
| |
| Chess One 2004-11-04, 5:47 pm |
|
"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:wS8id.4896$Ak2.4192@trndny02...
quote:
> Don e-mailed yesterday to say that he is on his way home, and will catch
> up on his messages in a few days, presumably making a report here too,
> where he often posts. Phil
and here is Don's message:-
What happened to USCF's no-confidence motion?
The US no-confidence motion was a two part motion. The first part was a
non-conditional expression of dissatisfaction in FIDE's leadership and a
conditional statement of no-confidence in FIDE President Ilyumzhinov. The
condition was that FIDE be paid the money owed to it by Ilyumzhinov. FIDE
unilaterally determined that a recent payment by President Ilyumzhinov to
FIDE satisfied the condition.
Whether the condition was satisfied is not the point as FIDE had no legal
right to remove the USCF motion from the agenda. The USCF motion was
submitted well in advance of any deadline and done in conformance with FIDE
regulations.
At the start of the Congress, we were told by FIDE that the motion would be
brought before the General Assembly.
There were four meetings/discussions relevant to the motion:
On the evening of July 27, in Calvia USCF leaders had a dinner meeting with
FIDE leaders, Our motion was discussed with FIDE Deputy President
Makropolos, Vice President Morten Sand and Treasurer David Jarrett.
Participating from the USCF side were President Marinello, FIDE VP Steve
Doyle, USCF FIDE Delegate Bill Kelleher, USCF Zonal President Robert Tanner
and USCF EB Members Elizabeth Shaughnessy and me. The meeting was
confrontational and direct. The discussion began with an expression by the
USCF of some of the reasons why we are disappointed in FIDE's leadership.
Specifically:
(1) FIDE's replacement of its Executive Director with a Troika composed of
three of its own Board member and providing not only expense money but
salary payments to Troika members Morten Sand, Davis Jarrett and Israel
Gelfer).
(2) FIDE's seemingly arbitrary decision to move the FIDE office to Athens
without competitive bidding
and
(3) The World Championship schism.
Deputy President Makropolos responded with a long monologue that appeared to
be aimed to divide our side. Makro spoke fast continually making his point
with rhetorical questions, allowing no interruptions and ridiculing USCF
leaders as seemingly not being of one mind but each having different
viewpoints. He claimed he did everything possible to involve USCF leaders in
the process.
Makro pointed out that he had put USCF past President Steve Doyle on their
PB (Presidential Board) and put me on the Verification Commission explaining
that the USCF would not have been able to get Doyle and me elected to those
posts without their active support. I was stunned by these
misrepresentations and succeeded in interrupting him to point out a couple
of distortions. For example, he did not help me get on the Verification
Commission but rather did everything possible to keep me off the VC
including failure to present my nomination to the Assembly. Only through the
intervention of USCF delegate Bill Kelleher and the Congress's delegates
expansion of the committee's membership from three to four was I elected to
the committee.
Doyle asked Makro to support a proposal to eliminate or curtail proxy voting
and support a call for an extraordinary 2005 General Assembly request. Makro
said he could go for curtailing proxy voting but not for the extraordinary
meeting. Over the years there have been abuses in the use of proxies.
Countries like Belize have never participated in a Congress, sent a team to
an Olympiad or organized an Olympiad event yet their proxy carries the same
weight as the votes of Russia, Germany, China, USA etc. Nevertheless, Makro
apparently tied his willingness to curtail use of proxies to the USCF
withdrawing its request for an extraordinary General Assembly for 2005. Was
there a deal struck to tie the two together? Apparently not, but in fairness
to Makro, the discussion became so convoluted that I can see how he may have
gotten that impression.
The next evening the USCF dinner with the Americas and some additional
country reps, primarily from Europe, took place. Using the Americas as the
base for the meeting was possible because the Americas were united as they
have never been in the 35 years that I have attended FIDE meetings. Our
Madame President Beatriz Marinello deserves the credit for this. Her country
of birth is Chile; their language and heritage are her's. At the meeting of
the Americas she was warmly greeted by virtually every latin American
representative.
About Sixty federation presidents/delegates to FIDE attended the dinner. I
invited Makro and David Jarrett as well and as a result I was criticized as
some felt this would stifle free discussion among us. Beatriz, Doyle, Arns
of Netherlands, GM Joel Lautier, president of the new player's "union" and
the recently deposed FIDE General Secretary Mr. Nourreddine Tabbane (he was
advocating the same reforms as us) all voiced that criticism. Joel Lautier
left (I believe partially because of this) before the dinner began saying
that he had to get back to his team but that he would still like to see us
later in the week without Makro (time did not permit and that meeting never
took place).
I was the emcee of the dinner meeting and explained that I asked Makro and
David Jarrett to attend so that they could hear the complaints direct from
all present rather than having them filtered through the USCF delegation. It
worked at least to some level. I did not see anyone present holding back
what they had to say because of FIDE's presence. Doyle gave a hard hitting
summary that was a prelude to what would come at the final day of the
General Assembly (see next paragraph).. Tabbane told me afterwards that
despite his earlier reservations I did the right thing by inviting Makro and
Jarrett. Nearly every person at the dinner spoke and aired his/her concerns.
The final day of the General Assembly was a disaster. When Makro saw the
USCF pushing for both the Proxy curtailment and the extraordinary General
Assembly he believed the US had double crossed him and were reneging on a
deal of curtail-proxies/but-don't-go-for-the-extraordinary-GA. Morten Sand
apparently felt the same and when this came up also felt his integrity was
being challenged. Thus begun an exchange with Doyle that got out of control
and totally disrupted the meeting. The meeting ended abruptly in virtual
chaos leaving no possibility for bringing up our motions or having FIDE get
the handbook (that they already wrote and had approved for sale.
In summary, those of us pushing for reform had an erratic start, but are now
in the game. We have a relatively strong base of support for whatever
direction we decide upon. During our discussion it became clear that one of
FIDE leadership's most vulnerable areas is the inappropriate payments to
members of their Presidential Board. Some very good people have allowed
themselves, out of apparent blindness, to become party to this abuse.
Elected FIDE officials VP Morten Sand, FIDE Treasurer David Jarrett, my
Verification Committee Chairman, FIDE Auditor Lakhdar Mazouz, FIDE VP and
leading Asian organizer Ignatius Leong, and Israel Gelfer fall into this
category. Aside from the substantial Troika salary and expenses Sand, Gelfer
and Jarrett receive, members of this group receive payments for
contributions to the directory, handbook, participation on appeals
committees and running tournaments.
Next steps: Decide whether we go for an Extraordinary Assembly. Do we
attempt to change the proxy rule? Tabbane says this is unimportant since GM
Kouatly proved in 1995 that the current insiders can be out-proxied. And
most important of all, begin putting together a ticket for the 2006 FIDE
elections.
For now, that's all I have to report.
| |
| joe mccarron 2004-11-05, 5:47 pm |
| Thank you very much for posting this and keeping us up to date.
| |
| joe mccarron 2004-11-10, 6:47 am |
| Thank you very much for posting this and keeping us up to date.
| |
| Chess One 2004-11-11, 6:46 am |
|
"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:wS8id.4896$Ak2.4192@trndny02...
quote:
> Don e-mailed yesterday to say that he is on his way home, and will catch
> up on his messages in a few days, presumably making a report here too,
> where he often posts. Phil
and here is Don's message:-
What happened to USCF's no-confidence motion?
The US no-confidence motion was a two part motion. The first part was a
non-conditional expression of dissatisfaction in FIDE's leadership and a
conditional statement of no-confidence in FIDE President Ilyumzhinov. The
condition was that FIDE be paid the money owed to it by Ilyumzhinov. FIDE
unilaterally determined that a recent payment by President Ilyumzhinov to
FIDE satisfied the condition.
Whether the condition was satisfied is not the point as FIDE had no legal
right to remove the USCF motion from the agenda. The USCF motion was
submitted well in advance of any deadline and done in conformance with FIDE
regulations.
At the start of the Congress, we were told by FIDE that the motion would be
brought before the General Assembly.
There were four meetings/discussions relevant to the motion:
On the evening of July 27, in Calvia USCF leaders had a dinner meeting with
FIDE leaders, Our motion was discussed with FIDE Deputy President
Makropolos, Vice President Morten Sand and Treasurer David Jarrett.
Participating from the USCF side were President Marinello, FIDE VP Steve
Doyle, USCF FIDE Delegate Bill Kelleher, USCF Zonal President Robert Tanner
and USCF EB Members Elizabeth Shaughnessy and me. The meeting was
confrontational and direct. The discussion began with an expression by the
USCF of some of the reasons why we are disappointed in FIDE's leadership.
Specifically:
(1) FIDE's replacement of its Executive Director with a Troika composed of
three of its own Board member and providing not only expense money but
salary payments to Troika members Morten Sand, Davis Jarrett and Israel
Gelfer).
(2) FIDE's seemingly arbitrary decision to move the FIDE office to Athens
without competitive bidding
and
(3) The World Championship schism.
Deputy President Makropolos responded with a long monologue that appeared to
be aimed to divide our side. Makro spoke fast continually making his point
with rhetorical questions, allowing no interruptions and ridiculing USCF
leaders as seemingly not being of one mind but each having different
viewpoints. He claimed he did everything possible to involve USCF leaders in
the process.
Makro pointed out that he had put USCF past President Steve Doyle on their
PB (Presidential Board) and put me on the Verification Commission explaining
that the USCF would not have been able to get Doyle and me elected to those
posts without their active support. I was stunned by these
misrepresentations and succeeded in interrupting him to point out a couple
of distortions. For example, he did not help me get on the Verification
Commission but rather did everything possible to keep me off the VC
including failure to present my nomination to the Assembly. Only through the
intervention of USCF delegate Bill Kelleher and the Congress's delegates
expansion of the committee's membership from three to four was I elected to
the committee.
Doyle asked Makro to support a proposal to eliminate or curtail proxy voting
and support a call for an extraordinary 2005 General Assembly request. Makro
said he could go for curtailing proxy voting but not for the extraordinary
meeting. Over the years there have been abuses in the use of proxies.
Countries like Belize have never participated in a Congress, sent a team to
an Olympiad or organized an Olympiad event yet their proxy carries the same
weight as the votes of Russia, Germany, China, USA etc. Nevertheless, Makro
apparently tied his willingness to curtail use of proxies to the USCF
withdrawing its request for an extraordinary General Assembly for 2005. Was
there a deal struck to tie the two together? Apparently not, but in fairness
to Makro, the discussion became so convoluted that I can see how he may have
gotten that impression.
The next evening the USCF dinner with the Americas and some additional
country reps, primarily from Europe, took place. Using the Americas as the
base for the meeting was possible because the Americas were united as they
have never been in the 35 years that I have attended FIDE meetings. Our
Madame President Beatriz Marinello deserves the credit for this. Her country
of birth is Chile; their language and heritage are her's. At the meeting of
the Americas she was warmly greeted by virtually every latin American
representative.
About Sixty federation presidents/delegates to FIDE attended the dinner. I
invited Makro and David Jarrett as well and as a result I was criticized as
some felt this would stifle free discussion among us. Beatriz, Doyle, Arns
of Netherlands, GM Joel Lautier, president of the new player's "union" and
the recently deposed FIDE General Secretary Mr. Nourreddine Tabbane (he was
advocating the same reforms as us) all voiced that criticism. Joel Lautier
left (I believe partially because of this) before the dinner began saying
that he had to get back to his team but that he would still like to see us
later in the week without Makro (time did not permit and that meeting never
took place).
I was the emcee of the dinner meeting and explained that I asked Makro and
David Jarrett to attend so that they could hear the complaints direct from
all present rather than having them filtered through the USCF delegation. It
worked at least to some level. I did not see anyone present holding back
what they had to say because of FIDE's presence. Doyle gave a hard hitting
summary that was a prelude to what would come at the final day of the
General Assembly (see next paragraph).. Tabbane told me afterwards that
despite his earlier reservations I did the right thing by inviting Makro and
Jarrett. Nearly every person at the dinner spoke and aired his/her concerns.
The final day of the General Assembly was a disaster. When Makro saw the
USCF pushing for both the Proxy curtailment and the extraordinary General
Assembly he believed the US had double crossed him and were reneging on a
deal of curtail-proxies/but-don't-go-for-the-extraordinary-GA. Morten Sand
apparently felt the same and when this came up also felt his integrity was
being challenged. Thus begun an exchange with Doyle that got out of control
and totally disrupted the meeting. The meeting ended abruptly in virtual
chaos leaving no possibility for bringing up our motions or having FIDE get
the handbook (that they already wrote and had approved for sale.
In summary, those of us pushing for reform had an erratic start, but are now
in the game. We have a relatively strong base of support for whatever
direction we decide upon. During our discussion it became clear that one of
FIDE leadership's most vulnerable areas is the inappropriate payments to
members of their Presidential Board. Some very good people have allowed
themselves, out of apparent blindness, to become party to this abuse.
Elected FIDE officials VP Morten Sand, FIDE Treasurer David Jarrett, my
Verification Committee Chairman, FIDE Auditor Lakhdar Mazouz, FIDE VP and
leading Asian organizer Ignatius Leong, and Israel Gelfer fall into this
category. Aside from the substantial Troika salary and expenses Sand, Gelfer
and Jarrett receive, members of this group receive payments for
contributions to the directory, handbook, participation on appeals
committees and running tournaments.
Next steps: Decide whether we go for an Extraordinary Assembly. Do we
attempt to change the proxy rule? Tabbane says this is unimportant since GM
Kouatly proved in 1995 that the current insiders can be out-proxied. And
most important of all, begin putting together a ticket for the 2006 FIDE
elections.
For now, that's all I have to report.
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