Chess politics - "Chess Life" author fees

Author

"Chess Life" author fees

Spam Scone

2004-10-31, 6:46 am

nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan) wrote in message news:<cm0jls$q7s$1@gw.tssi.com>...

quote:

> USCF currently spends about $70,000 on author fees.

I can't let this one pass without comment. It's strange that I, a
freelance writer, cannot get basic submission guidelines from the
Chess Life editor. Meanwhile Chess Life continues to be a feeding
trough for the favored few.

Would you be willing

quote:

> to double or triple that amount to come up with a solid base of top-flight
> editorial material for online publication?

How much does Chess Cafe pay for writers? Correspondence Chess News
(RIP) managed to run rings around Chess Life without paying writers.
I'm not saying Chess Life should not pay contributors, but your
argument that putting out an on-line USCF magazine requires 210K for
paying contributors smacks of the worst sort of USCF Old Guardism.

Neil Brennen

ASCACHESS

2004-10-31, 9:45 am

>I can't let this one pass without comment. It's strange that I, a

quote:

>freelance writer, cannot get basic submission guidelines from the
>Chess Life editor. Meanwhile Chess Life continues to be a feeding
>trough for the favored few.
>
>Would you be willing
>
>How much does Chess Cafe pay for writers? Correspondence Chess News
>(RIP) managed to run rings around Chess Life without paying writers.
>I'm not saying Chess Life should not pay contributors, but your
>argument that putting out an on-line USCF magazine requires 210K for
>paying contributors smacks of the worst sort of USCF Old Guardism.
>
>Neil Brennen
>

Perhaps if you said your name was Jerry Hanken and did interviews of class
section winners, you could get in on the Old Guard cafeteria line.

Rp

Sam Sloan

2004-10-31, 9:45 am

On 31 Oct 2004 03:18:15 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
wrote:

quote:

>nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan) wrote in message news:<cm0jls$q7s$1@gw.tssi.com>...
>
>
>I can't let this one pass without comment. It's strange that I, a
>freelance writer, cannot get basic submission guidelines from the
>Chess Life editor. Meanwhile Chess Life continues to be a feeding
>trough for the favored few.
>

Chess Life readers want to read articles written by Grandmasters. They
do not want to read articles written by 1571 players like you.

http://www.64.com/uscf/ratings/12672893

quote:

>Would you be willing
>
>How much does Chess Cafe pay for writers? Correspondence Chess News
>(RIP) managed to run rings around Chess Life without paying writers.
>I'm not saying Chess Life should not pay contributors, but your
>argument that putting out an on-line USCF magazine requires 210K for
>paying contributors smacks of the worst sort of USCF Old Guardism.
>
>Neil Brennen

Surprising. How many grandmasters have written for Correspondence
Chess News, and how many readers do you have?

Sam Sloan

Chess One

2004-10-31, 9:45 am

"Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:4184ea7f.4027468@ca.news.verio.net...

quote:

> On 31 Oct 2004 03:18:15 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
> wrote:
>
> Chess Life readers want to read articles written by Grandmasters. They
> do not want to read articles written by 1571 players like you.
>
> http://www.64.com/uscf/ratings/12672893

Neil Brennen will think I am a strange ally to support his question here.
However, I agree with many things he says:-

Why indeed can't anyone understand the basis for remuneration in CL and
thereby make a contribution to it? The magazine could certainly use some
cheering up by introducing new faces and new writing!!

I disagree with Sam Sloan - for chessic annotations its true, its preferable
to employ high-ranked players, however, interest in chess is more varied
than that, and a significant chunk of interest is in chess histories -
according to my own survey some 65% of people place 'chess history' in their
top 5 categories of chess subjects.

GMs are not necessarily better at writing historical material than other
players, and in fact are often not so good at it!

quote:

>
> Surprising. How many grandmasters have written for Correspondence
> Chess News, and how many readers do you have?

I write for an ezine. 4 of us produce more material per month than is in CL,
none of us are Grandmasters, although our columns are often used by GMs.
Recently we have featured columns notes and articles by GMs Ivanov,
Taimanov, S. Polgar, R. Keene, M. Ashley. We have also interviewed the USCF
President, allowing her more space to expound her views and visions of chess
at USCF than has ever been seen in the 'in-house' organ CL.

We have 10,000 subscribed newsletter readers and over 100,000 site visits
per month.

Its actually quite a modest venture, yet in terms of both quality and
quantity of articles we vastly outperform CL. We have sponsors for columns
and connections with several print publishers, and also friendly links with
an international bi-lingual site supplying very hi-quality chess
information.

Neil Brennen's questions deserve an answer not a rebuke. By popular acclaim,
CL is boring! How would any new writer get his foot in the door or the
editor try out new ideas if the process of writing for CL is obscure?

One part of the activities of my group [chessville] is to sponsor GM
annotations, and as a fee-based activity we offer about the same article
rate as chesscafe, which is about $125 to $150. Other columns at chessville
are between say $80 and $150, depending on their extent, and sometimes upon
available sponsorship.

Phil Innes

quote:

> Sam Sloan

Spam Scone

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

ascachess@aol.com (ASCACHESS) wrote in message news:<20041031064630.25170.00003437@mb-m04.aol.com>...

quote:

>
> Perhaps if you said your name was Jerry Hanken and did interviews of class
> section winners, you could get in on the Old Guard cafeteria line.
> Rp

Richard, I take it you agree that Nolan is showing his Old-Guard
training in his reply? It ranks up there with Schlich's blaming the
USPS for the lateness of Chess Life.

BTW, I hope you were kidding about my writing Hanken-style fluff.

Frisco Del Rosario

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

In article <9D6hd.515$Z22.356@trndny04>, "Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote:

quote:

> "Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
> news:4184ea7f.4027468@ca.news.verio.net...
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I disagree with Sam Sloan - for chessic annotations its true, its preferable
> to employ high-ranked players, however, interest in chess is more varied
> than that ... GMs are not necessarily better at writing historical

material than other

quote:

> players, and in fact are often not so good at it!

Neither are grandmasters necessarily better at writing instructive
material, though too many students and readers get a false sense of
improvement from reading a top player's unsuitable or poorly-presented
articles and books.

Chess Life probably ought to pay the same column inch rate to Huck
Historian as it does to Grandmaster Goose, especially since Huck probably
does more work on his piece -- or haven't you noticed that lots of
grandmaster annotations these days (in any publication) are
computer-generated.

Chess Life could also use an editor who writes an amount of technical
material that is equal to the amount of, um, sassy copy, and has as much
background in publication design as the publication designer.

--
Frisco Del Rosario
A First Book of Morphy http://www.trafford.com/robots/04-1714.html

Mike Nolan

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone) writes:

quote:

>BTW, I hope you were kidding about my writing Hanken-style fluff.

Not having seen (at least as far as I know) your writing other than in
this newsgroup, I don't know that your writing is up even to Jerry's
rather low quality standard of late. (If you go back 10-15 years,
his writing was better and less formulaic then.)

Writing, like fornicating, is something most people incorrectly think
they do well.
--
Mike Nolan

Sam Sloan

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

On 31 Oct 2004 08:39:42 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
wrote:

quote:

>ascachess@aol.com (ASCACHESS) wrote in message news:<20041031064630.25170.00003437@mb-m04.aol.com>...
>
>Richard, I take it you agree that Nolan is showing his Old-Guard
>training in his reply? It ranks up there with Schlich's blaming the
>USPS for the lateness of Chess Life.
>
>BTW, I hope you were kidding about my writing Hanken-style fluff.

I personally would be very upset if Chess Life started publishing
articles by Neil Brennen.

Grandmasters know something that I do not know, which is how to play
top level chess.

Neil Brennen knows absolutely nothing about chess that I do not know
and would be interested in learning.

Sam Sloan

Chess One

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

"Frisco Del Rosario" <frisco@appleisp.net> wrote in message
news:frisco-3110040859490001@meriweather...

quote:

> In article <9D6hd.515$Z22.356@trndny04>, "Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> material than other
>
> Neither are grandmasters necessarily better at writing instructive
> material, though too many students and readers get a false sense of
> improvement from reading a top player's unsuitable or poorly-presented
> articles and books.

I think I would agree with all your points Frisco, but on this one I would
primarily stick-it to the editor. In other newsgroups that discuss chess
learning there is often criticism of the teacher - in short, learning is not
learner-centered but teacher-centered, and driven too hard by commerce, cost
of the course and course materials, eg.

In CL neither should be relevant, but equally this doesn't disqualify
high-rated players from writing, but does qualify who can and who can't
write instructional material. A friend in Holland says that a highly
successful Dutch course is taught by average 1450-rated players. It is
relatively perfunctory material, yet still addresses the needs of most
players! I think USCF's own list shows that 60% of the membership is under
1000-rated. [Ken Sloan can correct me on these numbers, but I think they are
correct].

quote:

> Chess Life probably ought to pay the same column inch rate to Huck
> Historian as it does to Grandmaster Goose, especially since Huck probably
> does more work on his piece -- or haven't you noticed that lots of
> grandmaster annotations these days (in any publication) are
> computer-generated.

Laugh. Fritz is at work everywhere! At Chessville we sponsored a Russia
co-champion to annotate a game he lost, and he wrote about his prep work
admitting relying too much on computer analysis, and not looking hard enough
at the merit of the resultant positions. In general I agree with your
sentiment. It is a bit skewed by the market - ie, some people have more
popular columns and might be expected to get paid more, I would accept this.
However, those people might not be GMs!

quote:

> Chess Life could also use an editor who writes an amount of technical
> material that is equal to the amount of, um, sassy copy, and has as much
> background in publication design as the publication designer.

I agree with all that.

Therefore, to return to the start, Neil Brennen's point about trying to
obtain publication rates is a reasonable one. The editor can try a new
writer, and if successful, bingo! Perhaps CL needs to do a little more
experimentation to liven itself up? Layout and Design has always been awful
compared to subscribed magazines and is perhaps another reason that CL is
not allowed to exist as a stand-alone subscription - no one would buy it.

Phil Innes

quote:

> --
> Frisco Del Rosario
> A First Book of Morphy http://www.trafford.com/robots/04-1714.html

Chess One

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

> I personally would be very upset if Chess Life started publishing

quote:

> articles by Neil Brennen.

Neil is certainly no friend of mine. <g> However, I would not be upset to
see his column in CL, and would try to assess each piece of his writing on
its own merits.

quote:

> Grandmasters know something that I do not know, which is how to play
> top level chess.
>
> Neil Brennen knows absolutely nothing about chess that I do not know
> and would be interested in learning.

But how do you know that Sam?

I have read some, not all, of Neil's material and I think it is well
prepared, properly cited, and, as far as I can see, written as well as
anyone else could achieve given the subject matter; in fact written rather
better than most, and to bench-mark his writing, in my opinion it is
certainly equivalent to anyone' else's at CL.

I completely fail to understand why someone like Neil Brennen shouldn't be
allowed to run, say 3 articles in 3 successive months, and let people make
up their own minds if they like his writing or not. I remind you Sam that
you are not a typical CL reader, and its necessary from an editorial p.o.v.
to keep your eye on who that reader is, not your own superior knowledge,
immersed as you have been in chess and chess politics your whole life,
rather than typically for a few years only!

Give the guy a chance! Give others like him a chance! It's lots of work, not
well paid, and everyone's a critic, even though they've never displayed much
quality or quantity in written material themselves! <g>

What's the matter with us, are we the bone-tiried writing to the
bored-stiff?

And I am really surprised by you, Sam, that you of all people could go to
sleep on something that could conceivably make CL more interesting to read,
[lol], just because of a personal antipathy to Neil. I emphasise that I have
never really got on with him either, but this does not inhibit a fair
assessment of his writing capabilities nor assessing a fit for CL's readers.

In fact I'm for the idea and for trying it out with NB as writer; to quote a
fellow countryman of mine, 'those who don't know their history are destined
to repeat it'.

Phil Innes

quote:

> Sam Sloan

Spam Scone

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote in message news:<4184ea7f.4027468@ca.news.verio.net>...

quote:

> On 31 Oct 2004 03:18:15 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
> wrote:
>
> Chess Life readers want to read articles written by Grandmasters.

Jerry Hanken, Alex Dunne, John Donaldson, Ira Riddle, and John Hilbert
are Grandmasters?

They

quote:

> do not want to read articles written by 1571 players like you.
>
> http://www.64.com/uscf/ratings/12672893

The CJA might not agree with you. How many CJA awards do you have,
Sammy?

quote:

>
> Surprising.

Not at all. Compare the July 2001 Chess Life and the July 2001 issues
of CCN. CCN had more chess content. Or do you prefer the CL interview
with Dustin Diamond to my CCN interview with USCCC Champion Robin
Smith?

How many grandmasters have written for Correspondence

quote:

> Chess News, and how many readers do you have?
> Sam Sloan

Had, not have; we turned the lights out with Issue 100. We had over 5k
readers at our peak. We had occasional FIDE and ICCF GM contributors,
but most of the writing was done by our international staff of ICCF
titled players. Some of them are now writing for New In Chess, Chess
Cafe, and other magazines.

Spam Scone

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<9D6hd.515$Z22.356@trndny04>...

quote:

> "Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
> news:4184ea7f.4027468@ca.news.verio.net...
>
> Neil Brennen will think I am a strange ally to support his question here.

Neil Brennen thinks you are strange, period.

quote:

> However, I agree with many things he says:-
>
> Why indeed can't anyone understand the basis for remuneration in CL and
> thereby make a contribution to it? The magazine could certainly use some
> cheering up by introducing new faces and new writing!!
> I disagree with Sam Sloan - for chessic annotations its true, its preferable
> to employ high-ranked players, however, interest in chess is more varied
> than that, and a significant chunk of interest is in chess histories -
> according to my own survey some 65% of people place 'chess history' in their
> top 5 categories of chess subjects.
> GMs are not necessarily better at writing historical material than other
> players, and in fact are often not so good at it!

Some titled players are also top-notch historians, such as Donaldson
and Forster.

quote:

>
> I write for an ezine. 4 of us produce more material per month than is in CL,
> none of us are Grandmasters, although our columns are often used by GMs.
> Recently we have featured columns notes and articles by GMs Ivanov,
> Taimanov, S. Polgar, R. Keene, M. Ashley. We have also interviewed the USCF
> President, allowing her more space to expound her views and visions of chess
> at USCF than has ever been seen in the 'in-house' organ CL.
>
> We have 10,000 subscribed newsletter readers and over 100,000 site visits
> per month.
>
> Its actually quite a modest venture, yet in terms of both quality and
> quantity of articles we vastly outperform CL.

Aside from your dreadful book reviews, you mean.

We have sponsors for columns

quote:

> and connections with several print publishers, and also friendly links with
> an international bi-lingual site supplying very hi-quality chess
> information.
>
> Neil Brennen's questions deserve an answer not a rebuke. By popular acclaim,
> CL is boring! How would any new writer get his foot in the door or the
> editor try out new ideas if the process of writing for CL is obscure?

They would go elsewhere, as you and I did.

quote:

> One part of the activities of my group [chessville] is to sponsor GM
> annotations, and as a fee-based activity we offer about the same article
> rate as chesscafe, which is about $125 to $150. Other columns at chessville
> are between say $80 and $150, depending on their extent, and sometimes upon
> available sponsorship.

What seems to have been lost in this thread is my main point about
Nolan's projected 210K payout to writers for an ezine.

ASCACHESS

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

>Richard, I take it you agree that Nolan is showing his Old-Guard

quote:

>training in his reply? It ranks up there with Schlich's blaming the
>USPS for the lateness of Chess Life.
>
>BTW, I hope you were kidding about my writing Hanken-style fluff.

I wasn't referring to you at all.
Just a reference to one of the old timers who constantly feeds and has never
felt any compunction about calling to bust the ED's cylindricals to get his
checks.

A funny note.
Former trough tender Frank Niro gave me his cell phone number but with the
condition that I not give it to Jerry Hanken who was harassing him over checks
for his drivel.
Bet you thought Niro liked to write checks to everybody. Even Frank had some
limits.
Of course, Hanken does not have that problem with the current ED.

Rp

Sam Sloan

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

On 31 Oct 2004 13:28:08 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
wrote:

quote:

>
>Jerry Hanken, Alex Dunne, John Donaldson, Ira Riddle, and John Hilbert
>are Grandmasters?

Donaldson is a solid International Master with a GM norm. Dunne and
Hanken are solid masters who have been masters for more than 40 years
since the 1960s.

Riddle and Hilbert are Class C players. I do not recall seeing any
articles by them in Chess Life.

So, your examples prove my case, not yours.

quote:

>
>The CJA might not agree with you. How many CJA awards do you have,
>Sammy?

None. I very likely would have except that my many political opponents
have squashed that, but that is not the issue here in any case.

quote:

>Not at all. Compare the July 2001 Chess Life and the July 2001 issues
>of CCN. CCN had more chess content. Or do you prefer the CL interview
>with Dustin Diamond to my CCN interview with USCCC Champion Robin
>Smith?

There were a lot of objections to the articles about Dustin Diamond.
The Chess Life editor who published those articles was fired and will
not be back. Good riddance.

We have never heard of Robin Smith. Don't care to hear of him either.

quote:

>How many grandmasters have written for Correspondence
>
>Had, not have; we turned the lights out with Issue 100.

See. You went out of business. You are in no position to tell Chess
Life what its editorial policy should be.

Sam Sloan

Taylor Kingston

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<9D6hd.515$Z22.356@trndny04>...

quote:

> Neil Brennen will think I am a strange ally to support his question here.
> However, I agree with many things he says: Why indeed can't anyone understand

the basis for remuneration in CL and thereby make a contribution to
it? >>

In the case of the one article I have written for CL (The
Keres-Botvinnik Case, May 1998), I never asked about guidelines or
payment. I just submitted my MS and asked if they were interested.
There was a delay of several months before I got a response, but
ultimately things worked out, and they paid $100 per page after
publication. That, however, was under Glenn Petersen; how things are
under Pehme I don't know.

< The magazine could certainly use some cheering up by introducing new
faces and new writing!! >

I quite agree. I spend maybe ten minutes on each new issue, then
file it away only on the odd chance it may be useful for some
historical reference in the future.

quote:

> I disagree with Sam Sloan - for chessic annotations its true, its preferable
> to employ high-ranked players, however ... GMs are not necessarily better at

writing historical material than other players, and in fact are often
not so good at it! >

Innes is right and Sloan is wrong (not to mention insulting to
Brennen). A high rating or a two-letter title is absolutely no
guarantee of literary or historical competence (Matthew Sadler in NiC
being a prime example), and the lack of either is no indicator of
incompetence. In counting living titled players who are both excellent
writers and serious, sound historians, the list pretty much starts and
stops with IM Richard Forster, whereas the list of good historians who
are/were nowhere near IM/GM strength is long.

quote:

Odd as it might sound from someone who's written over 100 items for
ChessCafe, I don't know. There is some payment for the regular
columns, but not for reviews and Skittles Room articles. I don't think
most ChessCafe contributors do it for the money; it's more for the
pleasure of participating in a web-site that treats the game with the
respect it deserves.
[vbcol=seagreen]

Hear, hear.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Neil Brennen's questions deserve an answer not a rebuke. >>

Same comment. Taylor Kingston

HAASpittle

2004-11-01, 12:45 am

"Neil Brennen knows absolutely nothing about chess that I do not know
and would be interested in learning. (Sam Sloan)
============
Because Neil is a state eyecandy type, he can teach you how to add "!!!" onto
every fifth move in your own games.

Old Haasie

Paul Rubin

2004-11-01, 12:45 am

sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) writes:

quote:

>
> See. You went out of business. You are in no position to tell Chess
> Life what its editorial policy should be.

See, make 30,000 chessplayers subscribe to my magazine at the threat
of losing their ratings access if they don't subscribe, and I'll survive
way past 100 issues too.

Tom Martinak

2004-11-01, 12:45 am

nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan) wrote

quote:

> Not having seen (at least as far as I know) your writing other than in
> this newsgroup, I don't know that your writing is up even to Jerry's
> rather low quality standard of late. (If you go back 10-15 years,
> his writing was better and less formulaic then.)

The 2004 PSCF Annual can be downloaded at:
http://www.pscfchess.org/pscfannual/
including Champion for a Half-Century by Durwood Hatch, with Neil Brennen.

Back issues of Pennswoodpusher can be downloaded at:
http://www.pscfchess.org/pennswoodpusher/

- Tom Martinak

Spam Scone

2004-11-01, 12:45 am

nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan) wrote in message news:<cm35mn$f91$1@gw.tssi.com>...

quote:

> tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone) writes:
>
>
> Not having seen (at least as far as I know) your writing other than in
> this newsgroup,

Translation: "Not having any interest in reading your writing..."

I don't know that your writing is up even to Jerry's

quote:

> rather low quality standard of late. (If you go back 10-15 years,
> his writing was better and less formulaic then.)
>
> Writing, like fornicating, is something most people incorrectly think
> they do well.

Care to defend your claim about 210K for authors at an online chess magazine?

Sam Sloan

2004-11-01, 6:45 am

On 31 Oct 2004 18:31:43 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
wrote:

quote:

>nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan) wrote in message news:<cm35mn$f91$1@gw.tssi.com>...
>
>Translation: "Not having any interest in reading your writing..."

Why would any reader of Chess Life magazine possibly have any interest
in reading your writing?

Spam Scone

2004-11-01, 6:45 am

sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote in message news:<4185604e.12792515@ca.news.verio.net>...

quote:

> On 31 Oct 2004 13:28:08 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
> wrote:
>
>
> Donaldson is a solid International Master with a GM norm. Dunne and
> Hanken are solid masters who have been masters for more than 40 years
> since the 1960s.

Beside the point. The claim was "written by Grandmasters".

quote:

> Riddle and Hilbert are Class C players. I do not recall seeing any
> articles by them in Chess Life.

Riddle has been published several times over the years. Hilbert won a
CJA award for one of his articles in CL.

quote:

> So, your examples prove my case, not yours.
>
>
> None. I very likely would have except that my many political opponents
> have squashed that, but that is not the issue here in any case.

There are probably other reasons....

quote:

>
> There were a lot of objections to the articles about Dustin Diamond.
> The Chess Life editor who published those articles was fired and will
> not be back. Good riddance.
> We have never heard of Robin Smith. Don't care to hear of him either.

I don't suppose you will be reading his book?

quote:

>
> See. You went out of business. You are in no position to tell Chess
> Life what its editorial policy should be.
> Sam Sloan

You moron, I am not dicating editorial policy to CL. Booz what right
when he warned me years ago that communicating with you was like
talking to a wall.

Spam Scone

2004-11-01, 6:45 am

ascachess@aol.com (ASCACHESS) wrote in message news:<20041031170900.29577.00001792@mb-m05.aol.com>...

quote:

>
> I wasn't referring to you at all.

Thank you.

quote:

> Just a reference to one of the old timers who constantly feeds and has never
> felt any compunction about calling to bust the ED's cylindricals to get his
> checks.

Or doing his political bidding - I recall a World Open tournament
report that included a cheap shot at Tom Dorsch.

quote:

> A funny note.
> Former trough tender Frank Niro gave me his cell phone number but with the
> condition that I not give it to Jerry Hanken who was harassing him over checks
> for his drivel.
> Bet you thought Niro liked to write checks to everybody.

Niro even thought using Sam Sloan to release USCF press releases was
OK.

Even Frank had some

quote:

> limits.
> Of course, Hanken does not have that problem with the current ED.

But our current ED is working for free! Lucky us!

StanB

2004-11-01, 9:45 am

"Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:4185e4e5.9655093@ca.news.verio.net...

quote:

> Why would any reader of Chess Life magazine possibly have any interest
> in reading your writing?

Why would anyone possibly have any interest in reading your writings or
postings? Their relevancy and credibility rival only that of Parr and
Bibuld.

StanB

2004-11-01, 9:45 am

"Spam Scone" <tartakover11@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:76ba5964.0411010229.1bcb16c6@posting.google.com...

quote:

>
> You moron, I am not dicating editorial policy to CL. Booz what right
> when he warned me years ago that communicating with you was like
> talking to a wall.

At least with the wall you get an echo.

Chess One

2004-11-01, 9:45 am

quote:

> < The magazine could certainly use some cheering up by introducing new
> faces and new writing!! >
>
> I quite agree. I spend maybe ten minutes on each new issue, then
> file it away only on the odd chance it may be useful for some
> historical reference in the future.

Some form of index would also make old copies of CL into a useful archive.
Either individually indexed or an annual summary of material.

I think there has to be a realisation that the magazine CL as a print entity
cannot really serve all the members. Certainly historical articles on
players may be relevant to all, especially if you haven't previously read
anything on the subject, and could encourage a reader to buy a good chessic
bio on a player or an event. But CL doesn't really supply these articles in
any consistent editorial format.

The main problem with a print mag is in commenting on the chess itself. How
to properly engage the majority of readers [under 1000 rating] with analysis
that is also suitable for the average adult club chess player [say
1450-1650] and also more advanced players? This is a technical difficulty
inherent in print media, and commentary goes over the top or is so anodyne
that advanced players needn't read it.

Its interesting comparing that sort of presentation with e-presentations,
especially receiving and editing material in Chessbase or similar format,
where the viewer can play through moves on-screen and choose to follow
complex analytical lines and associated commentary, or skip it entirely and
simply plug away at the game moves. This isn't perfect, but offers more
chessic analysis not limited by the cost/extent of paper copy.

quote:

> writing historical material than other players, and in fact are often
> not so good at it! >
>
> Innes is right and Sloan is wrong (not to mention insulting to
> Brennen). A high rating or a two-letter title is absolutely no
> guarantee of literary or historical competence (Matthew Sadler in NiC
> being a prime example), and the lack of either is no indicator of
> incompetence. In counting living titled players who are both excellent
> writers and serious, sound historians, the list pretty much starts and
> stops with IM Richard Forster, whereas the list of good historians who
> are/were nowhere near IM/GM strength is long.

Another notable exception is Stephan Gerzadowicz who, in my opinion, has
written the most entertaining and honest chess title of the past 25 years in
his /Journal of a Chess Master/ which was published in a [very] limited
editon by The Thinkers Press, 1975. I have a copy if you haven't seen it.
Its not really a history, but a memoire of his own playing experience -
candid, amusing, and good chess analysis which gets the reader to speculate
with him on the next series of moves. Top marks!

Best GM writers on chess I have encountered are GM Alexei Bezgodov who is a
professional journalist <lol> [I asked him for a piece comprising an
annotation of a game he had lost, I liked it so asked for 100 words or so of
biographical material about himself, he sent 800] and also GM Mark Taimanov
who writes almost uniquely [?] about the person who plays the game, rather
than that part of the person we call the chess player.

quote:

I have no idea what that 210k number can represent either. By some
coincidence my estimate of the cost of the new CL office is about the same
number, $200,000+.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Hear, hear.
>
>
> Same comment. Taylor Kingston

There are a good number of people in this newsgroup who seem to me to be
entirely capable of writing more than mere entertainments, and could supply
interesting material to CL, perhaps on a rotating basis of guest articles
and columns.

Unfortunately, like most USCF topics seem to be, there is no advance
discussion of the policy basis of this or any of its actions, and
potentially interesting subjects become typically buried under a heap of
personal invective.

I think it is the job of a good editor to reserve his own opinion, likes and
dislikes, and stimulate all sorts of responses /in others/ by covering the
spectrum with a variety of writers. In this respect I think Larry Parr was
probably the last editor to properly understand and deploy this editorial
function.

More recently CL has been Snooze-Light. 12 months ago as part of a survey I
asked people their preferences of print magazine, and no one put CL first in
their list, even though its circulation is relatively huge, and expenditure
on CL journalism also proportionally larger than its competition.

Phil Innes

Jeremy Spinrad

2004-11-01, 9:45 am

Hilbert wrote some of the best articles I have ever seen in Chess Life.

In my opinion, the only serious case that can be made in favor of vastly
preferring GM articles is that we need to help support those people who are
trying to eke out a living through chess. We have very limited funds to help
them, and the aythor's fees for Chess Life are one place where we can
support them. However, this should not get in the way of the primary goal of
making CL a magazine we want to read. I would object to any policy that would
exclude someone like Hilbert, who is in his own field of chess hostory America's
one equivalent of a GM.

Jerry Spinrad

Jeremy Spinrad

2004-11-01, 9:45 am

Since Sam has advocated a policy which rules out most chess historians (since
they are too weak as players), and this is fairly close to the CL view, there are
many like myself who prefer Neil's writing.

I am a little surprised, since Sam at times seems interested in chess history,
that he takes this view. For those who haven't read Neil's articles, and are
interested in more about chess than the latest fashionable view of a hot opening
line, I can highly recommend his articles.

Jerry Spinrad

In article <4185e4e5.9655093@ca.news.verio.net>, sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) writes:
|> On 31 Oct 2004 18:31:43 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
|> wrote:
|>
|> >nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan) wrote in message news:<cm35mn$f91$1@gw.tssi.com>...
|> >> tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone) writes:
|> >>
|> >> >BTW, I hope you were kidding about my writing Hanken-style fluff.
|> >>
|> >> Not having seen (at least as far as I know) your writing other than in
|> >> this newsgroup,
|> >
|> >Translation: "Not having any interest in reading your writing..."
|>
|> Why would any reader of Chess Life magazine possibly have any interest
|> in reading your writing?

Sam Sloan

2004-11-01, 5:46 pm

On 1 Nov 2004 13:31:29 GMT, spin@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jeremy Spinrad)
wrote:

quote:

>Hilbert wrote some of the best articles I have ever seen in Chess Life.
>
>In my opinion, the only serious case that can be made in favor of vastly
>preferring GM articles is that we need to help support those people who are
>trying to eke out a living through chess. We have very limited funds to help
>them, and the aythor's fees for Chess Life are one place where we can
>support them. However, this should not get in the way of the primary goal of
>making CL a magazine we want to read. I would object to any policy that would
>exclude someone like Hilbert, who is in his own field of chess hostory America's
>one equivalent of a GM.
>
>Jerry Spinrad

I am not talking abut Hilbert. Hilbert is a real historian who wrote
an excelent book about Whitaker which I have.

I am talking about Brennen. Brennen is a beginner at chess who just
took up the game a few years ago, who spends all of his time on this
group attacking people, who never contributes anything interesting or
useful, and who has the arrogance to expect Chess Life magazine to pay
him for his articles.

Sam Sloan

Frisco Del Rosario

2004-11-01, 5:46 pm

In article <418678f4.2955453@ca.news.verio.net>, sloan@ishipress.com wrote:

quote:

> Brennen is a beginner at chess who just
> took up the game a few years ago

His experience at the game has nothing to do with the quality of his
historical research.

quote:

> who spends all of his time on this
> group attacking people

I once joked to Tom Dorsch, "Man, what happened to Neil Brennen? He turned
into the new .... you," while Tom finished the sentence with "me" at the
same time.

The last time Neil took a jab at me, I deserved it. He's also been
complimentary if he thought I deserved that, so I can't agree that he
spends all of his time on the group attacking people.

quote:

> who never contributes anything interesting or
> useful

Not true. For instance, I just haven't had the guts to say what Neil has
said about the Chess Journalists of America, its members, or its
practices. (Then again, maybe anything to do with the CJA isn't
interesting or useful by definition.)

quote:

> and who has the arrogance to expect Chess Life magazine to pay
> him for his articles.

If there's a line item in the Chess Life budget for freelance writers, he
ought to expect so.

--
Frisco Del Rosario
A First Book of Morphy http://www.trafford.com/robots/04-1714.html

Sam Sloan

2004-11-01, 5:46 pm

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 18:30:07 GMT, frisco@appleisp.net (Frisco Del
Rosario) wrote:

quote:

>In article <418678f4.2955453@ca.news.verio.net>, sloan@ishipress.com wrote:
>
>
>His experience at the game has nothing to do with the quality of his
>historical research.

The question is not whether Brennen does good quality historical
research. The question is whether the paid subscribers to Chess Life
magazine are interested in reading what Brennen has to say. Chess Life
readers are in general not interested in historical research. John
McCrary, while he was USCF President, got Chess Life to publish his
articles on chess history. These articles were not well liked and were
not often read. The editor had to publish these articles because
McCrary was the president. As soon as McCrary resigned as president,
the articles stopped.

Andy Soltis and Larry Evans often write about chess history and their
articles are popular because they are writing from the point of view
of grandmasters who participated in the events in question. However, I
do not believe that many Chess Life readers would be interested in
reading articles by Neal Brennen regardless of how well written they
were. I certainly would not.

Sam Sloan

Mike Nolan

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone) writes:

quote:

[vbcol=seagreen]
>Translation: "Not having any interest in reading your writing..."

The quality of that writing which I have seen in this newsgroup is abysmal.
It has been my experience that good writers tend to be good writers
everywhere their writing appears, and vice versa.

quote:

>Care to defend your claim about 210K for authors at an online chess magazine?

I might have been willing to if you hadn't already misquoted me, but
you've already indicated your lack of interest in an honest discussion
of the issues.

BTW, what I wrote was not a claim, it was a query that reflects my
opinion that well-researched and well-written material won't be free,
nor should anyone expect it to be. What I wrote was:

quote:

> USCF currently spends about $70,000 on author fees. Would you be willing
> to double or triple that amount to come up with a solid base of top-flight
> editorial material for online publication?

--
Mike Nolan

Mike Nolan

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

frisco@appleisp.net (Frisco Del Rosario) writes:

quote:

>Chess Life probably ought to pay the same column inch rate to Huck
>Historian as it does to Grandmaster Goose, especially since Huck probably
>does more work on his piece -- or haven't you noticed that lots of
>grandmaster annotations these days (in any publication) are
>computer-generated.

If Huck Historian is a professional writer, I'd go along with that,
because I feel professionals deserve reasonable compensation. Amateurs
should be paid lower rates, if their stuff is worthy of publication at all.

That doesn't mean I'm willing to pay top-dollar prices to GMs who can't
write coherent articles just because they won some title, possiblly
many years ago.

But some can, just as there are certainly non-GMs who can write
interesting and coherent articles about chess.

However, much of what I've read in the magazine over the years was
either incomprehensible to me or boring beyond belief. Chess Life
shouldn't be a vanity press for writers who can't write run by
editors who don't edit.

quote:

>Chess Life could also use an editor who writes an amount of technical
>material that is equal to the amount of, um, sassy copy, and has as much
>background in publication design as the publication designer.

Hear hear!
---
Mike Nolan

Spam Scone

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote in message news:<4185e4e5.9655093@ca.news.verio.net>...

quote:

> On 31 Oct 2004 18:31:43 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
> wrote:
>
>
> Why would any reader of Chess Life magazine possibly have any interest
> in reading your writing?

Why not ask them?

Spam Scone

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

spin@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jeremy Spinrad) wrote in message news:<cm5ebj$632$2@news.vanderbilt.edu>...

quote:

> I am a little surprised, since Sam at times seems interested in chess history...

Sloan has no interest in the subject at all.

Spam Scone

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<Bychd.876$fw2.531@trndny01>...

quote:

> Neil is certainly no friend of mine. <g>

That's your choice, Philsy. Stop acting as a fact-factory,
name-dropper, hysteric, moron, and luvvie, and watch how people's
reactions change. "Campel" that.

Spam Scone

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

frisco@appleisp.net (Frisco Del Rosario) wrote in message news:<frisco-3110040859490001@meriweather>...

quote:

> In article <9D6hd.515$Z22.356@trndny04>, "Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> material than other
>
> Neither are grandmasters necessarily better at writing instructive
> material, though too many students and readers get a false sense of
> improvement from reading a top player's unsuitable or poorly-presented
> articles and books.
>
> Chess Life probably ought to pay the same column inch rate to Huck
> Historian as it does to Grandmaster Goose, especially since Huck probably
> does more work on his piece -- or haven't you noticed that lots of
> grandmaster annotations these days (in any publication) are
> computer-generated.
>
> Chess Life could also use an editor who writes an amount of technical
> material that is equal to the amount of, um, sassy copy, and has as much
> background in publication design as the publication designer.

Agreed. Now tell us all about your book, Frisco.

Neil Brennen

Spam Scone

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

tkingston@chittenden.com (Taylor Kingston) wrote in message news:<dbe68208.0410311428.475113d3@posting.google.com>...

quote:

> writing historical material than other players, and in fact are often
> not so good at it! >
>
> Innes is right and Sloan is wrong (not to mention insulting to
> Brennen). A high rating or a two-letter title is absolutely no
> guarantee of literary or historical competence (Matthew Sadler in NiC
> being a prime example), and the lack of either is no indicator of
> incompetence. In counting living titled players who are both excellent
> writers and serious, sound historians, the list pretty much starts and
> stops with IM Richard Forster, whereas the list of good historians who
> are/were nowhere near IM/GM strength is long.

Taylor, you are forgetting John Donaldson.

quote:

>
> Odd as it might sound from someone who's written over 100 items for
> ChessCafe, I don't know. There is some payment for the regular
> columns, but not for reviews and Skittles Room articles. I don't think
> most ChessCafe contributors do it for the money; it's more for the
> pleasure of participating in a web-site that treats the game with the
> respect it deserves.

Agreed. So, you doubt Mike Nolan's claim that USCF would need 210K in
authors' fees for an online magazine?

quote:

>
> Hear, hear.
>
>
> Same comment. Taylor Kingston

Thanks, Taylor, but if I wanted to be well-treated, I would go back to
the White Collection, and not to rgcp.

Spam Scone

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<L%qhd.5679$HT3.4602@trndny08>...

quote:

>
> Some form of index would also make old copies of CL into a useful archive.
> Either individually indexed or an annual summary of material.
>
> I think there has to be a realisation that the magazine CL as a print entity
> cannot really serve all the members. Certainly historical articles on
> players may be relevant to all, especially if you haven't previously read
> anything on the subject, and could encourage a reader to buy a good chessic
> bio on a player or an event. But CL doesn't really supply these articles in
> any consistent editorial format.
>
> The main problem with a print mag is in commenting on the chess itself. How
> to properly engage the majority of readers [under 1000 rating] with analysis
> that is also suitable for the average adult club chess player [say
> 1450-1650] and also more advanced players? This is a technical difficulty
> inherent in print media, and commentary goes over the top or is so anodyne
> that advanced players needn't read it.

When I was in the U1000 range (pre-Heisman), I tried to read the more
serious annotations. Your reach should exceed your grasp.

quote:

> Its interesting comparing that sort of presentation with e-presentations,
> especially receiving and editing material in Chessbase or similar format,
> where the viewer can play through moves on-screen and choose to follow
> complex analytical lines and associated commentary, or skip it entirely and
> simply plug away at the game moves. This isn't perfect, but offers more
> chessic analysis not limited by the cost/extent of paper copy.
>
>
> Another notable exception is Stephan Gerzadowicz who, in my opinion, has
> written the most entertaining and honest chess title of the past 25 years in
> his /Journal of a Chess Master/ which was published in a [very] limited
> editon by The Thinkers Press, 1975. I have a copy if you haven't seen it.
> Its not really a history, but a memoire of his own playing experience -
> candid, amusing, and good chess analysis which gets the reader to speculate
> with him on the next series of moves. Top marks!

Agreed, although you got the publication date wrong.

quote:

> Best GM writers on chess I have encountered are GM Alexei Bezgodov who is a
> professional journalist <lol> [I asked him for a piece comprising an
> annotation of a game he had lost, I liked it so asked for 100 words or so of
> biographical material about himself, he sent 800] and also GM Mark Taimanov
> who writes almost uniquely [?] about the person who plays the game, rather
> than that part of the person we call the chess player.
>
>
> I have no idea what that 210k number can represent either. By some
> coincidence my estimate of the cost of the new CL office is about the same
> number, $200,000+.
>
>
> There are a good number of people in this newsgroup who seem to me to be
> entirely capable of writing more than mere entertainments, and could supply
> interesting material to CL, perhaps on a rotating basis of guest articles
> and columns.

Here are some names:
Dan Heisman
Taylor Kingston
Frisco del Rosario
Steven Dowd

Any of them would be welcome in Chess Life. However, they are all
elsewhere; Heisman and Kingston at Chess Cafe, Rosario as a book
author, Dowd in The Pennswoodpusher.

quote:

> Unfortunately, like most USCF topics seem to be, there is no advance
> discussion of the policy basis of this or any of its actions, and
> potentially interesting subjects become typically buried under a heap of
> personal invective.
>
> I think it is the job of a good editor to reserve his own opinion, likes and
> dislikes, and stimulate all sorts of responses /in others/ by covering the
> spectrum with a variety of writers. In this respect I think Larry Parr was
> probably the last editor to properly understand and deploy this editorial
> function.

No offense to Larry, but Glen Petersen was a fine editor for a while.

Spam Scone

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

spin@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jeremy Spinrad) wrote in message news:<cm5drh$632$1@news.vanderbilt.edu>...

quote:

> Hilbert wrote some of the best articles I have ever seen in Chess Life.

Agreed. He's a nice guy too.

quote:

> In my opinion, the only serious case that can be made in favor of vastly
> preferring GM articles is that we need to help support those people who are
> trying to eke out a living through chess. We have very limited funds to help
> them, and the aythor's fees for Chess Life are one place where we can
> support them. However, this should not get in the way of the primary goal of
> making CL a magazine we want to read. I would object to any policy that would
> exclude someone like Hilbert, who is in his own field of chess hostory America's
> one equivalent of a GM.
>
> Jerry Spinrad

Agreed. But come on Jerry, aren't I at least IM? :-)

Sam Sloan

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

On 1 Nov 2004 16:38:23 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
wrote:

quote:

>That's your choice, Philsy. Stop acting as a fact-factory,
>name-dropper, hysteric, moron, and luvvie, and watch how people's
>reactions change. "Campel" that.

This is the sort of writring that Neil Brennen reqularly spews on this
group.

How much do you think we should pay him to write this?

Sam Sloan

Sam Sloan

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

On 1 Nov 2004 17:02:56 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
wrote:

quote:

>Agreed. But come on Jerry, aren't I at least IM? :-)

No. You are not an IM. You are not even an A Player.

You are Class C who has a vastly inflated opinion of your own
capabilities, like most Class Cs have.

Sam Sloan

Doom & Gloom Dave

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

Spam Scone wrote:

quote:

> sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote in message
> news:<4184ea7f.4027468@ca.news.verio.net>...
>
> Jerry Hanken, Alex Dunne, John Donaldson, Ira Riddle, and John Hilbert
> are Grandmasters?
>

Not to mention Silman, who wrote in my opinion the best column I've seen
in the magazine since I started reading it in about 1990.

Kenneth Sloan

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone) writes:

quote:

>... Your reach should exceed your grasp.
>...

Your career in chess has been a shining example of this ideal.

--
Kenneth Sloan sloan@uab.edu
Computer and Information Sciences (205) 934-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX (205) 934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/

Spam Scone

2004-11-02, 6:46 am

sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote in message news:<418678f4.2955453@ca.news.verio.net>...

quote:

> On 1 Nov 2004 13:31:29 GMT, spin@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jeremy Spinrad)
> wrote:
>
>
> I am not talking abut Hilbert. Hilbert is a real historian who wrote
> an excelent book about Whitaker which I have.

Hilbert is a real historian who praises my work publicly.

quote:

> I am talking about Brennen. Brennen is a beginner at chess who just
> took up the game a few years ago,

I've corrected this lie before. I learned to play chess during the Fischer boom.

who spends all of his time on this

quote:

> group attacking people,

No, that would be you.

who never contributes anything interesting or

quote:

> useful,

This is a newsgroup. When in Rome...

and who has the arrogance to expect Chess Life magazine to pay

quote:

> him for his articles.

The horror!

Spam Scone

2004-11-02, 6:46 am

frisco@appleisp.net (Frisco Del Rosario) wrote in message news:<frisco-0111041027390001@meriweather>...

quote:

> In article <418678f4.2955453@ca.news.verio.net>, sloan@ishipress.com wrote:
>
>
> His experience at the game has nothing to do with the quality of his
> historical research.

And Sloan is lying anyway.

quote:

>
> I once joked to Tom Dorsch, "Man, what happened to Neil Brennen? He turned
> into the new .... you," while Tom finished the sentence with "me" at the
> same time.

Tom is my idol in many ways.

quote:

> The last time Neil took a jab at me, I deserved it. He's also been
> complimentary if he thought I deserved that, so I can't agree that he
> spends all of his time on the group attacking people.

You deserve it most of the time, Frisco.

quote:

>
> Not true. For instance, I just haven't had the guts to say what Neil has
> said about the Chess Journalists of America, its members, or its
> practices. (Then again, maybe anything to do with the CJA isn't
> interesting or useful by definition.)

LOL!

quote:

>
> If there's a line item in the Chess Life budget for freelance writers, he
> ought to expect so.

Spam Scone

2004-11-02, 6:46 am

nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan) wrote in message news:<cm6hvj$f4l$1@gw.tssi.com>...

quote:

> tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone) writes:

quote:

>
> I might have been willing to if you hadn't already misquoted me, but
> you've already indicated your lack of interest in an honest discussion
> of the issues.

Nonsense. I jumped on your statement, and now you are claiming to be
misquoted to avoid debate. Very Old Guard.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> BTW, what I wrote was not a claim, it was a query that reflects my
> opinion that well-researched and well-written material won't be free,
> nor should anyone expect it to be. What I wrote was:
>

70K + 70K + 70K (AKA "triple that amount") = 210K. I don't see how you
can continue to claim to be misquoted. But keep spinning, Mike.

Chess One

2004-11-02, 6:46 am

"Spam Scone" <tartakover11@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:76ba5964.0411011638.26968418@posting.google.com...

quote:

> "Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:<Bychd.876$fw2.531@trndny01>...
>
>
> That's your choice, Philsy. Stop acting as a fact-factory,
> name-dropper, hysteric, moron, and luvvie, and watch how people's
> reactions change. "Campel" that.

On the other hand as Mike Nolan has pointed out, your own writing here is of
a consistently abysmal level probably unequalled in squalid abuse and always
utterly unreliable in any factual sense, to the extent that your personal
application for rates at CL is laughable - is there any evidence that you
could again write otherwise - as you somehow managed to do previously?

Your un-edited standard of writing comprises such a liability for any
publisher who would deploy it to guarantee its scarcity.

This is quite a different matter than why rates for CL should be secret or
the magazine run as a closed-shop.

The principal of your or anyone else's writing being considered for the
magazine, stands beyond any excessive characterizations of abusive
personality commentary that has become your personal ---> obsession <---

Phil Innes

Tom Martinak

2004-11-02, 9:46 am

tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone) wrote

quote:

> Agreed. But come on Jerry, aren't I at least IM? :-)

Maybe you could become an Internet IM?

- Tom Martinak

ASCACHESS

2004-11-02, 9:46 am

>I can't let this one pass without comment. It's strange that I, a

quote:

>freelance writer, cannot get basic submission guidelines from the
>Chess Life editor. Meanwhile Chess Life continues to be a feeding
>trough for the favored few.
>
>Would you be willing
>
>How much does Chess Cafe pay for writers? Correspondence Chess News
>(RIP) managed to run rings around Chess Life without paying writers.
>I'm not saying Chess Life should not pay contributors, but your
>argument that putting out an on-line USCF magazine requires 210K for
>paying contributors smacks of the worst sort of USCF Old Guardism.
>
>Neil Brennen
>

Perhaps if you said your name was Jerry Hanken and did interviews of class
section winners, you could get in on the Old Guard cafeteria line.

Rp

Spam Scone

2004-11-02, 9:46 am

ascachess@aol.com (ASCACHESS) wrote in message news:<20041031064630.25170.00003437@mb-m04.aol.com>...

quote:

>
> Perhaps if you said your name was Jerry Hanken and did interviews of class
> section winners, you could get in on the Old Guard cafeteria line.
> Rp

Parrthenon

2004-11-02, 5:46 pm

<<Why would anyone possibly have any interest in reading your writings or
postings? Their relevancy and credibility rival only that of Parr and Bibuld.>>
-- Stan Booz to Sam Sloan

Has Dr. Booz become a writer? Are his brown pearls now being cast before the
USCF porcine? We are transfixed by anticipation.

Speaking of writing, Larry Evans and I have a 14-page interview and article on
Fischer in the November CHESS MONTHLY out of Great Britain.

Incidentally, The last column of Addicts' Corner by Fox & James for Chess
Monthly contains this tasty morsel on page 59 about our old friend Edward
Winter:

1877 Au Revoir

"Our immense gratitude also to those whose work we purloined, notably Edward
Winter (who, by the way, has, for some reason, become a non-person at the
ChessCafe)."

________________________________________________________________
"FIDE has made its decision. Players who refuse to be drug tested will not be
able to play chess." -- Dr. Press, co-founder of the FIDE Medical Commission.

Spam Scone

2004-11-03, 12:45 am

martinak_tom_m@hotmail.com (Tom Martinak) wrote in message news:<7a7956bd.0411020557.622933a1@posting.google.com>...

quote:

> tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone) wrote
>
>
> Maybe you could become an Internet IM?
>
> - Tom Martinak

Like Phil Innes, yes?

Spam Scone

2004-11-03, 12:45 am

"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<q6Khd.5943$o52.637@trndny03>...

quote:

> "Spam Scone" <tartakover11@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:76ba5964.0411011638.26968418@posting.google.com...
>
> On the other hand as Mike Nolan has pointed out, your own writing here is of
> a consistently abysmal level probably unequalled in squalid abuse and always
> utterly unreliable in any factual sense,

Nolan has said this? Last I read he suggested I was sub-Hanken, and
not what you've written. Of course, your misrepresentation of Nolan's
post is to be expected from someone who manufactures quotations from
Orwell and babbles endlessly about my posting under the name "Matt
Nemmers".

to the extent that your personal

quote:

> application for rates at CL is laughable - is there any evidence that you
> could again write otherwise - as you somehow managed to do previously?

We are still waiting for you to disclose all my secrets, Philsy.

quote:

> Your un-edited standard of writing comprises such a liability for any
> publisher who would deploy it to guarantee its scarcity.

What "un-edited standard" are you babbling about now? Are you really
so insane that you consider newsgroup posts "writing"?

quote:

> This is quite a different matter than why rates for CL should be secret or
> the magazine run as a closed-shop.
> The principal of your or anyone else's writing being considered for the
> magazine, stands beyond any excessive characterizations of abusive
> personality commentary that has become your personal ---> obsession <---
> Phil Innes

Philsy, don't you have some Tim Hanke posts you can misquote?

StanB

2004-11-03, 12:45 am

"Parrthenon" <parrthenon@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20041101232250.20032.00000003@mb-m17.news.cs.com...

quote:

> <<Why would anyone possibly have any interest in reading your writings or
> postings? Their relevancy and credibility rival only that of Parr and
> Bibuld.>>
> -- Stan Booz to Sam Sloan
>
> Has Dr. Booz become a writer? Are his brown pearls now being cast before
> the
> USCF porcine? We are transfixed by anticipation.
>
> Speaking of writing, Larry Evans and I have a 14-page interview and
> article on
> Fischer in the November CHESS MONTHLY out of Great Britain.

You seem to be missing a transposition.

Spam Scone

2004-11-04, 12:45 am

"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<L%qhd.5679$HT3.4602@trndny08>...

quote:

>
> Some form of index would also make old copies of CL into a useful archive.
> Either individually indexed or an annual summary of material.
>
> I think there has to be a realisation that the magazine CL as a print entity
> cannot really serve all the members. Certainly historical articles on
> players may be relevant to all, especially if you haven't previously read
> anything on the subject, and could encourage a reader to buy a good chessic
> bio on a player or an event. But CL doesn't really supply these articles in
> any consistent editorial format.
>
> The main problem with a print mag is in commenting on the chess itself. How
> to properly engage the majority of readers [under 1000 rating] with analysis
> that is also suitable for the average adult club chess player [say
> 1450-1650] and also more advanced players? This is a technical difficulty
> inherent in print media, and commentary goes over the top or is so anodyne
> that advanced players needn't read it.

When I was in the U1000 range (pre-Heisman), I tried to read the more
serious annotations. Your reach should exceed your grasp.

quote:

> Its interesting comparing that sort of presentation with e-presentations,
> especially receiving and editing material in Chessbase or similar format,
> where the viewer can play through moves on-screen and choose to follow
> complex analytical lines and associated commentary, or skip it entirely and
> simply plug away at the game moves. This isn't perfect, but offers more
> chessic analysis not limited by the cost/extent of paper copy.
>
>
> Another notable exception is Stephan Gerzadowicz who, in my opinion, has
> written the most entertaining and honest chess title of the past 25 years in
> his /Journal of a Chess Master/ which was published in a [very] limited
> editon by The Thinkers Press, 1975. I have a copy if you haven't seen it.
> Its not really a history, but a memoire of his own playing experience -
> candid, amusing, and good chess analysis which gets the reader to speculate
> with him on the next series of moves. Top marks!

Agreed, although you got the publication date wrong.

quote:

> Best GM writers on chess I have encountered are GM Alexei Bezgodov who is a
> professional journalist <lol> [I asked him for a piece comprising an
> annotation of a game he had lost, I liked it so asked for 100 words or so of
> biographical material about himself, he sent 800] and also GM Mark Taimanov
> who writes almost uniquely [?] about the person who plays the game, rather
> than that part of the person we call the chess player.
>
>
> I have no idea what that 210k number can represent either. By some
> coincidence my estimate of the cost of the new CL office is about the same
> number, $200,000+.
>
>
> There are a good number of people in this newsgroup who seem to me to be
> entirely capable of writing more than mere entertainments, and could supply
> interesting material to CL, perhaps on a rotating basis of guest articles
> and columns.

quote:

> Unfortunately, like most USCF topics seem to be, there is no advance
> discussion of the policy basis of this or any of its actions, and
> potentially interesting subjects become typically buried under a heap of
> personal invective.
>
> I think it is the job of a good editor to reserve his own opinion, likes and
> dislikes, and stimulate all sorts of responses /in others/ by covering the
> spectrum with a variety of writers. In this respect I think Larry Parr was
> probably the last editor to properly understand and deploy this editorial
> function.

No offense to Larry, but Glen Petersen was a fine editor for a while.

Chess One

2004-11-04, 12:45 am

quote:

> < The magazine could certainly use some cheering up by introducing new
> faces and new writing!! >
>
> I quite agree. I spend maybe ten minutes on each new issue, then
> file it away only on the odd chance it may be useful for some
> historical reference in the future.

quote:

> writing historical material than other players, and in fact are often
> not so good at it! >
>
> Innes is right and Sloan is wrong (not to mention insulting to
> Brennen). A high rating or a two-letter title is absolutely no
> guarantee of literary or historical competence (Matthew Sadler in NiC
> being a prime example), and the lack of either is no indicator of
> incompetence. In counting living titled players who are both excellent
> writers and serious, sound historians, the list pretty much starts and
> stops with IM Richard Forster, whereas the list of good historians who
> are/were nowhere near IM/GM strength is long.

quote:

I have no idea what that 210k number can represent either. By some
coincidence my estimate of the cost of the new CL office is about the same
number, $200,000+.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Hear, hear.
>
>
> Same comment. Taylor Kingston

Sam Sloan

2004-11-04, 12:45 am

On 1 Nov 2004 16:38:23 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
wrote:

quote:

>That's your choice, Philsy. Stop acting as a fact-factory,
>name-dropper, hysteric, moron, and luvvie, and watch how people's
>reactions change. "Campel" that.

This is the sort of writring that Neil Brennen reqularly spews on this
group.

How much do you think we should pay him to write this?

Sam Sloan

Jeremy Spinrad

2004-11-04, 12:45 am

Jeremy Spinrad

2004-11-04, 12:45 am

Frisco Del Rosario

2004-11-04, 6:45 am

In article <9D6hd.515$Z22.356@trndny04>, "Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote:

quote:

> "Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
> news:4184ea7f.4027468@ca.news.verio.net...
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I disagree with Sam Sloan - for chessic annotations its true, its preferable
> to employ high-ranked players, however, interest in chess is more varied
> than that ... GMs are not necessarily better at writing historical

material than other

quote:

> players, and in fact are often not so good at it!

Mike Nolan

2004-11-04, 6:46 am

tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone) writes:

quote:

>BTW, I hope you were kidding about my writing Hanken-style fluff.

Sam Sloan

2004-11-04, 6:46 am

On 1 Nov 2004 17:02:56 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
wrote:

quote:

>Agreed. But come on Jerry, aren't I at least IM? :-)

No. You are not an IM. You are not even an A Player.

You are Class C who has a vastly inflated opinion of your own
capabilities, like most Class Cs have.

Sam Sloan

Sam Sloan

2004-11-04, 9:46 am

On 1 Nov 2004 13:31:29 GMT, spin@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jeremy Spinrad)
wrote:

quote:

>Hilbert wrote some of the best articles I have ever seen in Chess Life.
>
>In my opinion, the only serious case that can be made in favor of vastly
>preferring GM articles is that we need to help support those people who are
>trying to eke out a living through chess. We have very limited funds to help
>them, and the aythor's fees for Chess Life are one place where we can
>support them. However, this should not get in the way of the primary goal of
>making CL a magazine we want to read. I would object to any policy that would
>exclude someone like Hilbert, who is in his own field of chess hostory America's
>one equivalent of a GM.
>
>Jerry Spinrad

Frisco Del Rosario

2004-11-04, 9:46 am

In article <418678f4.2955453@ca.news.verio.net>, sloan@ishipress.com wrote:

quote:

> Brennen is a beginner at chess who just
> took up the game a few years ago

His experience at the game has nothing to do with the quality of his
historical research.

quote:

> who spends all of his time on this
> group attacking people

quote:

> who never contributes anything interesting or
> useful

quote:

> and who has the arrogance to expect Chess Life magazine to pay
> him for his articles.

If there's a line item in the Chess Life budget for freelance writers, he
ought to expect so.

--
Frisco Del Rosario
A First Book of Morphy http://www.trafford.com/robots/04-1714.html

Taylor Kingston

2004-11-04, 9:46 am

parrthenon@cs.com (Parrthenon) wrote in message news:<20041101232250.20032.00000003@mb-m17.news.cs.com>...

quote:

> Incidentally, The last column of Addicts' Corner by Fox & James for Chess
> Monthly contains this tasty morsel on page 59 about our old friend Edward
> Winter:
> "Our immense gratitude also to those whose work we purloined, notably Edward
> Winter (who, by the way, has, for some reason, become a non-person at the
> ChessCafe)."

Winter's "Chess Notes" now appears at www.chesshistory.com.

Sam Sloan

2004-11-04, 9:46 am

On 31 Oct 2004 08:39:42 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
wrote:

quote:

>ascachess@aol.com (ASCACHESS) wrote in message news:<20041031064630.25170.00003437@mb-m04.aol.com>...
>
>Richard, I take it you agree that Nolan is showing his Old-Guard
>training in his reply? It ranks up there with Schlich's blaming the
>USPS for the lateness of Chess Life.
>
>BTW, I hope you were kidding about my writing Hanken-style fluff.

Chess One

2004-11-04, 5:47 pm

"Frisco Del Rosario" <frisco@appleisp.net> wrote in message
news:frisco-3110040859490001@meriweather...

quote:

> In article <9D6hd.515$Z22.356@trndny04>, "Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> material than other
>
> Neither are grandmasters necessarily better at writing instructive
> material, though too many students and readers get a false sense of
> improvement from reading a top player's unsuitable or poorly-presented
> articles and books.

quote:

> Chess Life probably ought to pay the same column inch rate to Huck
> Historian as it does to Grandmaster Goose, especially since Huck probably
> does more work on his piece -- or haven't you noticed that lots of
> grandmaster annotations these days (in any publication) are
> computer-generated.

quote:

> Chess Life could also use an editor who writes an amount of technical
> material that is equal to the amount of, um, sassy copy, and has as much
> background in publication design as the publication designer.

quote:

> --
> Frisco Del Rosario
> A First Book of Morphy http://www.trafford.com/robots/04-1714.html

Spam Scone

2004-11-04, 5:47 pm

sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote in message news:<4184ea7f.4027468@ca.news.verio.net>...

quote:

> On 31 Oct 2004 03:18:15 -0800, tartakover11@hotmail.com (Spam Scone)
> wrote:
>
> Chess Life readers want to read articles written by Grandmasters.

Jerry Hanken, Alex Dunne, John Donaldson, Ira Riddle, and John Hilbert
are Grandmasters?

They

quote:

> do not want to read articles written by 1571 players like you.
>
> http://www.64.com/uscf/ratings/12672893

The CJA might not agree with you. How many CJA awards do you have,
Sammy?

quote:

>
> Surprising.

quote:

> Chess News, and how many readers do you have?
> Sam Sloan

ASCACHESS

2004-11-04, 5:47 pm

>Richard, I take it you agree that Nolan is showing his Old-Guard

quote:

>training in his reply? It ranks up there with Schlich's blaming the
>USPS for the lateness of Chess Life.
>
>BTW, I hope you were kidding about my writing Hanken-style fluff.

Taylor Kingston

2004-11-04, 5:47 pm

"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net>