Chess politics - Crossing Crossville

Author

Crossing Crossville

Chess One

2004-10-27, 12:46 am

I don't know if the Crossville decision makes any sense whatever based on
evidence of the mishmash of reports here.

On the face of it people seem to have made their decision in a hurry for no
apparent reason, informed by wildly conflicting reports of the 3 sites, and
without stating what goal is to be achieved by any move.

The property rate for TN seems very high for a 'rural' district. I am
comparing it with local rates for professional offices in my own town of
about the same size as Crossville, and which is also a non-metro area. You
can purchase two town houses, each of 2,000 square feet, for about $125k
each, which appears to discount the TN rate by 40%.

Our town has 3 interstate exits, 90 minutes from an international airport,
and 2 hrs from Logan/Boston, and is settled with various people who come
here for the arts and general amenities, which is also a reason cited by
business owners for relocation.

Spotted recently were Whoopi Goldberg, Saul Bellow, Misha Barysnikov and Ken
Burns. The Museum is currently hosting a Warhol festival from NY City [a
coup for the museum, the exhibit is a rare event anywhere], and every year
there is a literary festival drawing people from all over New England.

The population is 12,000 residents, grand list of 5,500, and with a day-time
population of almost 25,000.

Marlboro college has a graduate department for Internet studies, and there
are more cyber-people in town than shrinks! The World Learning Institute is
situated near Kipling's house, Naulakha, and can translate any of 57
languages. An outfit called VABEC runs PhD programs, and has the best
teleconferencing studio in the USA (much used by educators and medical
types).

There are 2,000,000 square feet of available wharehousing in the town, as
well as concommitant office spaces to serve it. Leasing better office space
of 4,000 sq ft might cost $40,000 per year. The entire town is designated as
America's first free-trade zone [any property can qualify] supported by the
chief government employee in the state and the governor.

Vermont as a desirable location always comes within the top 3 states in any
poll.

--------

But!

What I have not read here is a side-by-side comparison of sites that is not
contradicted by the decision-makers themselves!

(as if various people were voting from completely different sets of
information)

And which also addresses real needs of USCF, now and in a few years. I have
read happy abstractions, but as explanations for a strategic move of HQ they
are anodyne, and what is not at all clear is if the writers are writing-down
in public, or if what they have written constitutes their thinking entire.

A minimum set of items to address must be:-

i) How much work can be achieved by tele-commuting?
ii) What is the staffing need overall?
iii) What staff are identified to be absolutely necessary to USCF's office
/in situ/ and what work will they do?
iv) How much space needs be allocated to these staff? [Sam Sloan's question]
vi) In 5 years time, what are the identified spatial requirements for a USCF
office?
vii) What predicates metro versus rural location? [Larry Parr's question]

Phil Innes
Brattleboro, Vermont

StanB

2004-10-27, 12:46 am

"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:xQsdd.5795$Ug4.822@trndny01...

quote:

> The property rate for TN seems very high for a 'rural' district. I am
> comparing it with local rates for professional offices in my own town of
> about the same size as Crossville, and which is also a non-metro area. You
> can purchase two town houses, each of 2,000 square feet, for about $125k
> each, which appears to discount the TN rate by 40%.

Dubious in any place but the sticks. My house is 2400 sq ft and could bring
450k. That's what similar homes are bringing. 1,100 ft townhomes are
bringing in the high 200s around here.

My house is in the middle left of the pic, just above and right of the
upside down seven.

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.as...=11138&z=18&w=1

StanB

2004-10-27, 12:46 am

"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:xQsdd.5795$Ug4.822@trndny01...

quote:

> vii) What predicates metro versus rural location? [Larry Parr's question]

The subject of the predicate is often understood. Stop.

Mike Murray

2004-10-27, 12:46 am

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:01:18 -0400, "StanB" <stanbooz@comXXXcast.net>
wrote:

quote:

>My house is in the middle left of the pic, just above and right of the
>upside down seven.

quote:

>http://terraserver-usa.com/image.as...=11138&z=18&w=1

Your lawn needs mowing.

Chess One

2004-10-28, 12:46 am

"StanB" <stanbooz@comXXXcast.net> wrote in message
news:X7qdnZEyxfm3fevcRVn-3w@comcast.com...

quote:

>
> "Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:xQsdd.5795$Ug4.822@trndny01...
>
>
> Dubious in any place but the sticks. My house is 2400 sq ft and could
> bring 450k. That's what similar homes are bringing. 1,100 ft townhomes are
> bringing in the high 200s around here.
>
> My house is in the middle left of the pic, just above and right of the
> upside down seven.
>
> http://terraserver-usa.com/image.as...=11138&z=18&w=1

Stan, I expected to see a nice pic of a shuttered duplex, kennel out back, a
few okay shrubs, and maybe a kid learning to ride a training wheel bike. But
you live in a zeppelin!

Away from metro areas costs are very much less. I even calculated that USCF
could almost pay a lease from the /interest/ of the building sale here.

But we have more expensive real estate too, and pre-governor Arnold bought a
lake-lot which cost several times more than your house. In the most
desirable areas general contractors sometimes remove the old house entirely,
even if it cost a million, and rebuild a new 'palace'. They call these
properties 'scrapers'.

Try an on-line realtor in Vermont and look at towns called Manchester,
Dorset or Norwich, where the lot price is likely to be 400k. House is extra.

Phil

Duncan Oxley

2004-10-29, 5:46 pm

Smart people are not afraid to reevaluate their position when
new information comes in as time passes.

Clenched mouthed jerks call this flip-flopping.

If your heart surgeon decides you don't need an emergency operation
because he got wrong information and now new tests show different
would you wonder if he was right/wrong or wrong/right or thank your
lucky stars?

"Parrthenon" <parrthenon@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20041024011334.22466.00001341@mb-m06.news.cs.com...

quote:

> Tim Hanke cast the decisive vote to move to Crossville without delaying
> the
> vote for two weeks to explore whether a generous offer from a billionaire
> philanthropist who lives near New Windsor was feasible. Recently he stated
> he
> wouldn't accept the Liberty site even if it was given to the USCF for
> free.
> However, a realtor's report submitted to the board before the vote was
> taken
> states that the site is worth in excess of $500,000!
>
> As a candidate Mr. Hanke was opposed to Crossville. Was he right then and
> wrong
> now? Or wrong now and right then?
>
> From: Tim Hanke (webmaster@scleroderma.org)
> Subject: Re: Questions for T. Hanke & S. Sloan
>
> rec.games.chess.misc, rec.games.chess.politics
> Date: 2003-06-14 13:52:58 PST
>
> "Gunny Bunny" <nowwhere@nowhere.com> wrote ...
>
> I believe the USCF is moving in large part to shed payroll without having
> to
> fire employees. The move can be expected to lead to many staff quitting
> who
> might otherwise have had to be fired. Also, morale has been iffy at the
> current
> site.
>
> As to why Crossville, Tennessee, I really have no idea. With all due
> respect to
> Crossville, I think the search process should continue if that's the best
> place
> they have come up with so far.
>
>
> Based on what I have heard, I'm opposed to it. Apparently Crossville is
> two
> hours from an airport and in the middle of nowhere. There is no local
> chess
> constituency, which I think is important though I know others think
> differently.
>
> In Crossville, will it be easy or even possible to find highly qualified
> and
> educated technical people, such as are required to run a top-notch
> website, a
> large database and programming operation, and publish a high-quality
> magazine?
> I don't know, but I am skeptical till proven wrong.
>
> Moving to Crossville, Tennessee strikes me as yet one more significant
> strategic mistake by USCF in a long string of strategic mistakes over the
> past
> decade.
>
> of Scale and the ability to start a USCF chess club in NY and have 15
> million
> potential players
>
> As I've said before, I think our national chess federation should be
> headquartered in the Northeast, which has long been the geographic center
> of
> chess in this country ... or in the Pacific Northwest, possibly involving
> people from Yasser Seirawan's old International Chess Enterprises. That
> crowd is already running the U.S. Chess Championship for USCF; the
> Northwest
> is a hotbed for computer people and other highly skilled professionals;
> the
> area also has a strong chess heritage.
>
> Both the Northeast and the Northwest also have strong media and PR
> capabilities. In either area you can call a press conference or hold a
> public
> event and get a good turnout with plenty of professionals to manage
> things. I doubt there is much of that capability in Crossville, Tennessee.
>
> Tim Hanke
> --
> I am a candidate for the U.S. Chess Federation Executive Board in the 2003
> election. Please visit my website at http://www.timothyhanke.net.
>
>

Sam Sloan

2004-10-29, 5:46 pm

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:01:38 -0400, "StanB" <stanbooz@comXXXcast.net>
wrote:

quote:

>
>"Parrthenon" <parrthenon@cs.com> wrote in message
>news:20041024095239.17257.00001937@mb-m25.news.cs.com...
>
>
>There's a whopper for you. I insulter neither. I didn't even reply to
>Blair's post. He's on my blocked list as having low signal to noise ratio.

Can I get on your blocked list? I want to join.

Tim Hanke

2004-10-30, 5:45 pm

"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote ...

quote:

>
> USCF are the now the first group in history to proceed in spending their
> last few bucks without any admitted plan of why they are doing it

Phil,

What part of "no-money-down construction loan" do you not understand?
How many times do you have to be told the facts before you will admit
them?

You are embarrassing your buddy Larry Parr by stating the same
falsehoods over and over. At least Larry makes arguments in favor of
his position, even if (as I believe) they are mistaken arguments.

quote:

> and
> especially without caring if an experienced chess organiser who is the
> current ED thinks it makes no sense.

The current ED, Bill Goichberg, is occasionally mistaken in his
judgment. Bill Goichberg was part of the USCF brain trust (along with
Don Schultz, who also pushed hard for the Liberty hospital deal) that
lost $2 million in eight years and brought USCF to the very brink of
bankruptcy in 2003.

Even last winter, Bill Goichberg strongly opposed outsourcing the USCF
books & equipment operation. I believe USCF would be bankrupt at this
moment if Bill, the financial genius you seem to venerate, had gotten
his way.

To Bill's credit or blame, he is responsible for negotiating the
outsourcing agreement we currently have. I was quite unhappy with the
process we followed, and also unhappy with some terms of the contract
Bill negotiated. I am not the only member of the Board who believes
Bill failed to implement the sense of the Board in some of the terms
of the contract. However, I hope the deal works out, and I will give
Bill much of the credit if it does.

Last year, when I was running for the Board (which was probably the
worst blunder of my chess career to date), I advocated reducing USCF
adult dues. Bill Goichberg wrote a strongly worded editorial on his
website, saying the USCF could not afford Hanke's wild dues reduction
and he hoped I would be defeated.

This year, as USCF adult membership continued to decline, Bill decided
I had been correct about adult dues. At the annual meeting in August,
Bill and I stood side by side and urged the Delegates to approve a
package of reduced dues. But the rest of the Board did not support us,
and the motion failed.

Tim Hanke

Randy Bauer

2004-10-30, 5:45 pm

"Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:4183dc96.58615578@ca.news.verio.net...

quote:

> On 30 Oct 2004 10:20:12 -0700, timothyhanke@comcast.net (Tim Hanke)
> wrote:
>
>
> I strongly doubt that any bank is going to be willing to loan the USCF
> the $450,000 that will be needed to build the building you envision.

Why is that so hard to believe? The sale of the building put some cash back
in the bank, the current operations are maintaining a reasonable cashflow,
the 3 acres of land in Crossville is an asset that has real value, and the
bank is a strong player in the local community and wishes to support this
newest venture. I've borrowed money on a lot less.

quote:

> Even if it does, the USCF will have to pay that money back. The money
> is not a gift. It is a loan.

Good golly, I hadn't thought of that, your financial genius is on display
again. Let me think and think and think on the fact that a loan is not a
gift...

Oh, ok, I've got it -- the repayment of the loan will leave the USCF with
clear title to the building and land, so, it's not a gift, but at the end of
the payments, we own something. Cool!

quote:

>
> Where will the $450,000 come from the USCF will need to pay back that
> loan?

As Tim has already pointed out, part of it will come from the rent we are
currently paying for office space and storage. The last time I looked, we
weren't involved in a "rent to own" transaction at those locations, meaning
the USCF gains nothing of value from that transaction. Second, the New York
City area that you value so highly is extremely expensive, in terms of
property taxes, rent, wages, etc. The Crossville Tennessee cost of living
is about half that, meaning there will be savings from these costs that can
also be put to better use in owning our headquarters. Finally, through the
efforts of Beatriz and others, we have been able to find various operational
cost savings, and the goal is to squeeze still more efficiency out of the
operation. Combined, these should prove more than sufficient to make our
monthly payments.

quote:

> What part of this question do you not understand?

What part of the question hasn't been answered?

quote:

>
> Sam Sloan

Randy Bauer

GrantPerks

2004-10-30, 5:45 pm

StanB answered Sam Sloan:

quote:

>
>
>Already promised.
>

As I recall, the bank also promised a $100K loan for the move, and a LOC of
$300K. The plan was to use the LOC to pay for 21st Century computer software
and hardware.

Is this still part of the plan?

Grant Perks

Sam Sloan

2004-10-31, 12:45 am

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:13:46 GMT, "Randy Bauer"
<randybauer2300@yahoo.com> wrote:

quote:

>
>As Tim has already pointed out, part of it will come from the rent we are
>currently paying for office space and storage. The last time I looked, we
>weren't involved in a "rent to own" transaction at those locations, meaning
>the USCF gains nothing of value from that transaction. Second, the New York
>City area that you value so highly is extremely expensive, in terms of
>property taxes, rent, wages, etc. The Crossville Tennessee cost of living
>is about half that, meaning there will be savings from these costs that can
>also be put to better use in owning our headquarters. Finally, through the
>efforts of Beatriz and others, we have been able to find various operational
>cost savings, and the goal is to squeeze still more efficiency out of the
>operation. Combined, these should prove more than sufficient to make our
>monthly payments.
>
>
>Randy Bauer

You do not know New York very well. Probably you have visited Times
Square and base your opinions on that.

It is certainly true that the cost of living in Manhattan is
astronomical. A little 2x4 cubby hole will cost $2000 per month to
rent.

However, out in the far outskirts like Far Rockaway, Queens where I am
now living rents are available for a fraction of that, and it is still
in New York City.

I am confident that construction costs are cheaper here than in
Crossville. Food in the Supermarket in Queens or Brooklyn is cheaper
than anywhere else in the country. Construction materials are almost
without doubt cheaper, provided that you know where to buy. Labor for
experienced construction workers is almost certainly cheaper. There is
still open undeveloped land here. So, only rents in Manhattan are
higher. Most other costs are lower. But, of course, you would not
know, as you live in Iowa.

Taxes are probably higher in New York, but we are already paying taxes
on the Crossville land. I do not think it is much different.

The USCF is an international organization. The USCF was formed in 1939
for two reasons:

1. Hold the US Championship
2. Send teams to the Chess Olympiads

Back then, there was no rating service and no Chess Life.

USCF Ratings did not start until 1951. Frank Brady started Chess Life
Magazine in 1961.

The Crossville Gang seems to think that the only function the USCF
performs is ratings and memberships. True, those two functions could
be performed in Crossville or anywhere else for that matter, but the
USCF is or should be much more than that. We cannot function as an
international organization if we are centered in Crossville.

I notice that you have adopted the Beatriz line that all of the cost
savings were brought about entirely by Beatriz and her allies and that
Bill Goichberg deserves no credit for the turnaround.

Looks like we will have to settle this in court.

Sam Sloan

Don C. Aldrich

2004-10-31, 6:46 am

Now there's a brain trust for you...

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:10:17 GMT, "Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net>
wrote:

quote:

>I agree with Larry Parr, Sam should seek a restraining order.
>

Sam Sloan

2004-10-31, 6:46 am

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:53:43 GMT, "Tim Hanke"
<timothyhanke@comcast.net> wrote:

quote:

>"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote ...
>
>Phil,
>
>We are constructing our new headquarters with NO MONEY DOWN. I have posted
>that information here REPEATEDLY.
>
>I have also posted here that when we are done next year with our current
>leases of office space in New Windsor and storage space, those sums will PAY
>FOR OUR NEW MORTGAGE.
>
>You would appear wiser if you read more of my posts and made fewer of your
>own. :-)
>
>Tim Hanke
>USCF Vice President of Finance

You have to be rather stupid if you do not realize that these NO MONEY
DOWN deals are a lot more expensive in the long run.

Our long term obligations on the Crossville deal will be significant.
It will go on the liabilities side of our balance sheet and we will be
bankrupt again.

Of course, we will have a way out. We can sue Tim Hanke for the money
he cost us.

Sam Sloan

StanB

2004-10-31, 6:46 am

"Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:417e2483.110288203@ca.news.verio.net...

quote:

> Our long term obligations on the Crossville deal will be significant.
> It will go on the liabilities side of our balance sheet and we will be
> bankrupt again.

Hardly. On the flip side will be the cost of the building. The purchase of
assets with no money down has zero effect on equity.

Tim Hanke

2004-10-31, 6:46 am

"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote ...

quote:

>
> As a plan I admit your idea has the merit of having a simple focus where
> little can go astray by becoming confused with the complexities of the
> modern world.
>
> Cordially, Phil Innes

Phil,

Thank you. :-)

I realize you may not have meant your remark as a compliment, but I take it
as one. The older I get, the more I embrace the KISS Principle.

Tim Hanke
USCF Vice President of Finance

Chess One

2004-10-31, 6:46 am

"Tim Hanke" <timothyhanke@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:EIvfd.531854$8_6.171947@attbi_s04...

quote:

> "Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote ...
>
> Phil,
>
> Thank you. :-)
>
> I realize you may not have meant your remark as a compliment, but I take
> it as one. The older I get, the more I embrace the KISS Principle.
>
> Tim Hanke
> USCF Vice President of Finance

The simplest plan of all Tim is to wind up with no sponsors, no major
partners, no growth in membership, no internet presence, no funding for
national awards and tournaments, no editorial savvy or respect for the game,
no financial reserves, no conversations with developers - [the shakers and
movers of chess], no active GM involvement, no forward-looking plans on
which to base any moves... no nothin' and know nuthin', all this is in your
power.

This sort of Kiss should maintain USCF's honour in perpetuity down thair,
you can all be the Old Maid of the Mountains.

Phil

Jürgen R.

2004-10-31, 6:46 am

timothyhanke@comcast.net (Tim Hanke) wrote:

quote:

>"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote ...
>
>Phil,
>
>What part of "no-money-down construction loan" do you not understand?

The parts that I don't know about are the interest rate and the
repayment period.

quote:

>How many times do you have to be told the facts before you will admit
>them?
>

Mike Nolan

2004-10-31, 6:46 am

"StanB" <stanbooz@comXXXcast.net> writes:

quote:

>Some would say that Bill considers himself a de facto board member.

So do the USCF Bylaws. From Article VI, Section 1:

The Executive Director serves as a non-voting member of the
Executive Board, with the right to debate and make motions,
but without the right to vote.

This language was added despite some objections from the Bylaws Committee.
--
Mike Nolan, co-chair, USCF Bylaws Committee

Jürgen R.

2004-10-31, 6:46 am

quote:

>
>You do not know New York very well. Probably you have visited Times
>Square and base your opinions on that.

I know NY very well and, among the many places where I have lived, it
is the easily the most despicable. Nobody who has a viable choice
lives in Far Rockaway. Didn't you say you were living on your wife's
unemployment check? Might that be the reason?

Sam Sloan

2004-10-31, 6:46 am

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:13:46 GMT, "Randy Bauer"
<randybauer2300@yahoo.com> wrote:

quote:

>
>As Tim has already pointed out, part of it will come from the rent we are
>currently paying for office space and storage. The last time I looked, we
>weren't involved in a "rent to own" transaction at those locations, meaning
>the USCF gains nothing of value from that transaction. Second, the New York
>City area that you value so highly is extremely expensive, in terms of
>property taxes, rent, wages, etc. The Crossville Tennessee cost of living
>is about half that, meaning there will be savings from these costs that can
>also be put to better use in owning our headquarters. Finally, through the
>efforts of Beatriz and others, we have been able to find various operational
>cost savings, and the goal is to squeeze still more efficiency out of the
>operation. Combined, these should prove more than sufficient to make our
>monthly payments.
>
>
>Randy Bauer

Chess One

2004-10-31, 9:45 am

"Tim Hanke" <timothyhanke@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:b2a11a50.0410300920.197531c3@posting.google.com...

quote:

> "Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote ...
>
> Phil,
>
> What part of "no-money-down construction loan" do you not understand?

Dear Tim,

I am asking about a strategic plan for the next 2 to 5 years... You seem to
be talking about the financial basis of how to move the organisation.
Possibly there is a need to connect the dots between these two, so far,
entirely different subjects?

And the reason I write is to do so; to link a plan with spending money
establishing a base from which to operate a plan.

quote:

> How many times do you have to be told the facts before you will admit
> them?

I think you have made the best case for Crossville I have read here. But
there are other cases, other places.

quote:

> You are embarrassing your buddy Larry Parr by stating the same
> falsehoods over and over. At least Larry makes arguments in favor of
> his position, even if (as I believe) they are mistaken arguments.

Falsehoods?

I am writing about the no-plan move to Crossville, and a need to sensibly
compare that site with other options. Whatever site is chosen also needs to
fit with a desired future for USCF. That's the essense of it. Your replies
and suggestions of falsehoods are not a mark of confidence that you, or
anyone else, is actually engaged in deploying USCF's last major asset
withing an overall frame of what best serves USCF's future functions.

Why you ignore this topic, and think that whoever is not convinced of a
Crossville option is subverting public debate on the subject of USCF's
future, is entirely unclear to me.

quote:

>
> The current ED, Bill Goichberg, is occasionally mistaken in his
> judgment. Bill Goichberg was part of the USCF brain trust (along with
> Don Schultz, who also pushed hard for the Liberty hospital deal) that
> lost $2 million in eight years and brought USCF to the very brink of
> bankruptcy in 2003.
>
> Even last winter, Bill Goichberg strongly opposed outsourcing the USCF
> books & equipment operation. I believe USCF would be bankrupt at this
> moment if Bill, the financial genius you seem to venerate, had gotten
> his way.

I think we are leaving the tracks here. I have NEVER liked to argue what
interests and engages me based on personality issues. Personality does play
a part, but mostly that of understanding how someone chooses to write about
their views. As for your term 'venerate', I think this is very amusing! You
suggest that because I think that the current ED - who together with your
own board has rescued USCF's fortunes these past 18 months to the extent of
plugging the major financial drains on it - has reservations on moving to
Crossville, then I have abandoned any objective thinking on the subject.

LOL! Not my style Tim.

However, I do think it is necessary to engage those who must do the work,
which certainly includes the ED, in any decision making process simply in
order to ensure that the work is do-able! And not some fantasy future.
Apparently you and Hal Terrie do not agree.

You will excuse me for saying so, but even though you don't I still think
its necessary, and that it would be good to hear more of Bill's reservations
because, after all, he has vastly more management experience in chess
affairs than you both combined, both quantitatively and also qualitatively.

Is that okay? Am I really making an unusual request?

quote:

> To Bill's credit or blame, he is responsible for negotiating the
> outsourcing agreement we currently have. I was quite unhappy with the
> process we followed, and also unhappy with some terms of the contract
> Bill negotiated. I am not the only member of the Board who believes
> Bill failed to implement the sense of the Board in some of the terms
> of the contract. However, I hope the deal works out, and I will give
> Bill much of the credit if it does.

Sure, you can't always have it all your own way in a negotiation. However,
lest this become a referendum of what we think of Bill Goichberg, I would
like to re-establish a center for this subject, which is a forward looking
view rather than a historical one based on personalities.

I think it must now be a given that USCF are expending their last major
financial asset without any strategic plan. The continuous silence on this
subject is deafening.

Should we continue to write together here in public, this will be my topic.
Of course, its not necessary for you to engage it. I simply wish to re-state
what appears to be a greater critical factor than the bald fact of this site
or that, and to pursue that subject by asking the question:-

In 5 years how do you view the organisation?

Cordially, Phil Innes

quote:

> Last year, when I was running for the Board (which was probably the
> worst blunder of my chess career to date), I advocated reducing USCF
> adult dues. Bill Goichberg wrote a strongly worded editorial on his
> website, saying the USCF could not afford Hanke's wild dues reduction
> and he hoped I would be defeated.
>
> This year, as USCF adult membership continued to decline, Bill decided
> I had been correct about adult dues. At the annual meeting in August,
> Bill and I stood side by side and urged the Delegates to approve a
> package of reduced dues. But the rest of the Board did not support us,
> and the motion failed.
>
> Tim Hanke

Sam Sloan

2004-10-31, 9:45 am

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:07:06 GMT, jurgenr@web.de (Jürgen R.) wrote:

quote:

>
>
>I know NY very well and, among the many places where I have lived, it
>is the easily the most despicable. Nobody who has a viable choice
>lives in Far Rockaway. Didn't you say you were living on your wife's
>unemployment check? Might that be the reason?

Far Rockaway is getting much better. Looking out my window here, I can
see dozens of new homes under construction. A decade ago, this is a
place where you would not want to live. There are lots of Russians and
Afghans here. I brought the Afghans. (Actually, I brought just one
Afghan. He brought all the rest.)

However, comparing New York to another place as a place to live is not
the point. New York is a center for business and world trade. Should
the United Nations move to Crossville just because land is available
there, or should it stay in New York City?

The USCF is like the United Nations, except that it is devoted
exclusively to chess.

Sam Sloan

Jürgen R.

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote:

quote:

>On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:07:06 GMT, jurgenr@web.de (Jürgen R.) wrote:
>
>
>Far Rockaway is getting much better. Looking out my window here, I can
>see dozens of new homes under construction. A decade ago, this is a
>place where you would not want to live. There are lots of Russians and
>Afghans here. I brought the Afghans. (Actually, I brought just one
>Afghan. He brought all the rest.)
>
>However, comparing New York to another place as a place to live is not
>the point. New York is a center for business and world trade. Should
>the United Nations move to Crossville just because land is available
>there, or should it stay in New York City?
>
>The USCF is like the United Nations, except that it is devoted
>exclusively to chess.

There are one or two small differences between the UN and the USCF
that even you might have noticed.
Of course, Crossville is a completely absurd idea - but Far Rockaway
is even dumber.

quote:

>
>Sam Sloan
>

Parrthenon

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

A HOUSE DIVIDED

<<You are embarrassing your buddy Larry Parr by stating the same falsehoods
over and over. At least Larry makes arguments in favor of his position, even if
(as I believe) they are mistaken arguments...What part of "no-money-down
construction loan" do you not understand? How many times do you have to be told
the facts before you will admit them?>> -- Tim Hanke

It's never been fully explained why four board members could not wait a mere
two weeks in order to secure more facts about the Liberty bid before turning it
down. Why such a rush before making a momentous decision to move to Crossville
and pour around half a million into a new mortgage for a building that doesn't
even exist yet?

Does Tim Hanke maintain that even if the USCF could have obtained five years
free rent with no money down plus an option to buy (or not) the property in
Liberty at a fraction of its value after five years that he still would not
take it as a free gift?

This just doesn't make sense.

Does Tim Hanke maintain that getting rid of the professional staff and
replacing them with inexperienced ones in Crossville is a good thing for the
USCF?

The only argument I ever made -- and I have no dog in this fight -- is that the
board acted hastily. Even Randy Bauer, Frank Brady and Don Schultz still remain
baffled about the 4-3 vote against delaying a decision two weeks.

Why did the USCF president push so hard for this deal in Crossville?

Instead of expressing gratitude to Bill Goichberg, who works as executive
director without pay, he is criticized for trying to keep the current employees
at a site near New Windsor which, in effect, is being donated by a billionaire
who lives in Liberty.

Simply put: the board voted down Liberty when it was not in possession of ALL
the facts. The board had a fiduciary duty to explore all options fully. They
didn't do it.

Had the board waited two weeks and then voted in favor of Crossville by citing
valid reasons for turning down Liberty, people like Sam Sloan would not be
considering a lawsuit.

Instead the entire deal has the stench of back room politics and business as
usual at the good old USCF.

The only thing worse than making a mistake is not correcting it when there is
still time to do so. If Erik Anderson's offer is still open to negotiate with
the Gerry Foundation, the board shouldo give him two weeks to see if he can
come up with a better deal.

What harm can come from waiting two weeks?

________________________________________________________________
"FIDE has made its decision. Players who refuse to be drug tested will not be
able to play chess." -- Dr. Press, co-founder of the FIDE Medical Commission.

Mike Nolan

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

parrthenon@cs.com (Parrthenon) writes:

quote:

>Had the board waited two weeks and then voted in favor of Crossville by citing
>valid reasons for turning down Liberty, people like Sam Sloan would not be
>considering a lawsuit.

I tend to doubt it. Based on the suits Sam has filed (or claimed to have
filed), he'd sue a dog for pissing on a fire hydrant.
--
Mike Nolan

Sam Sloan

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

On 31 Oct 2004 19:21:40 GMT, nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan) wrote:

quote:

>parrthenon@cs.com (Parrthenon) writes:
>
>
>I tend to doubt it. Based on the suits Sam has filed (or claimed to have
>filed), he'd sue a dog for pissing on a fire hydrant.
>--
>Mike Nolan

Not true. I never bring a lawsuit unless I have researched the law
carefully and I an sure that I have a 100% winning case.

Even then, I know that very often a judge will made a crazy or
ridiculous ruling and throw a completely sound case out of court.

It is because I am very careful that I often win. Except for my
lawsuits against the Republican Party and the Independence Party,
which are now pending in the US Supreme Court, I have not filed a case
since 2001 and the one before that was several years earlier.

Sam Sloan

Spam Scone

2004-10-31, 5:46 pm

sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote in message news:<4184edd5.4880796@ca.news.verio.net>...

quote:

> The USCF is like the United Nations, except that it is devoted
> exclusively to chess.

Poor analogy. If USCF = UN, then what is FIDE?

ASCACHESS

2004-11-01, 12:45 am

>The USCF is like the United Nations, except that it is devoted

quote:

>exclusively to chess.
>
>Sam Sloan
>

I defy you to strain English through a collander and get anything like this
canard.

The USCF is like the United Nations?

How?

Rp

Mike Murray

2004-11-01, 12:45 am

On 01 Nov 2004 00:36:31 GMT, ascachess@aol.com (ASCACHESS) wrote:

quote:

>I defy you to strain English through a collander and get anything like this
>canard.

quote:

>The USCF is like the United Nations?

quote:

>How?

They're full of lame ducks. I canard-ly believe you asked.

quote:

>

Tom Klem

2004-11-01, 12:45 am

Perhaps the Sloan, meant the corruption.

I dunno. It is hard to understand him at times, and always a good idea not
to believe whatever point he is trying to make. By his own admission, he is
a paid liar and provocateur.

--
Tom Klem

"Can you still hear the spams, Clarice?"

"ASCACHESS" <ascachess@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041031193631.12217.00002042@mb-m21.aol.com...

quote:

>
> I defy you to strain English through a collander and get anything like

this

quote:

> canard.
>
> The USCF is like the United Nations?
>
> How?
>
> Rp

StanB

2004-11-01, 12:45 am

"Hal Terrie" <halNOSPAMterrie@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:dgc0o05dkc6tl95cd1qba1h5ebi7n31qcd@4ax.com...

quote:

> There is a difference between an elected board member and the
> Executive Director, who is an employee. Once a decision is made by the
> board, it is the ED's job to implement it, not to second guess it in a
> public forum.

Some would say that Bill considers himself a de facto board member.

StanB

2004-11-01, 6:45 am

"Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:4183dc96.58615578@ca.news.verio.net...

quote:

> I strongly doubt that any bank is going to be willing to loan the USCF
> the $450,000 that will be needed to build the building you envision.

Already promised.

quote:

> Even if it does, the USCF will have to pay that money back. The money
> is not a gift. It is a loan.
>
> Where will the $450,000 come from the USCF will need to pay back that
> loan?

Out of cash flow. The same place rent would have to come from. The only
difference is we'll have something to show for it by paying a mortgage. I
take it you've never owned real property.

Doom & Gloom Dave

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

Sam Sloan wrote:

quote:

> On 31 Oct 2004 19:21:40 GMT, nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan) wrote:
>
>
> Not true. I never bring a lawsuit unless I have researched the law
> carefully and I an sure that I have a 100% winning case.
>
> Even then, I know that very often a judge will made a crazy or
> ridiculous ruling and throw a completely sound case out of court.
>
> It is because I am very careful that I often win. Except for my
> lawsuits against the Republican Party and the Independence Party,
> which are now pending in the US Supreme Court, I have not filed a case
> since 2001 and the one before that was several years earlier.
>

Does the word Creighton ring a bell?

GrantPerks

2004-11-02, 12:46 am

StanB answered Sam Sloan:

quote:

>
>
>Already promised.
>

Sam Sloan

2004-11-02, 6:46 am

On 30 Oct 2004 10:20:12 -0700, timothyhanke@comcast.net (Tim Hanke)
wrote:

quote:

>"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote ...
>
>Phil,
>
>What part of "no-money-down construction loan" do you not understand?
>How many times do you have to be told the facts before you will admit
>them?

I strongly doubt that any bank is going to be willing to loan the USCF
the $450,000 that will be needed to build the building you envision.

Even if it does, the USCF will have to pay that money back. The money
is not a gift. It is a loan.

Where will the $450,000 come from the USCF will need to pay back that
loan?

What part of this question do you not understand?

Sam Sloan

Randy Bauer

2004-11-02, 9:46 am

"Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:4183dc96.58615578@ca.news.verio.net...

quote:

> On 30 Oct 2004 10:20:12 -0700, timothyhanke@comcast.net (Tim Hanke)
> wrote:
>
>
> I strongly doubt that any bank is going to be willing to loan the USCF
> the $450,000 that will be needed to build the building you envision.

quote:

> Even if it does, the USCF will have to pay that money back. The money
> is not a gift. It is a loan.

quote:

>
> Where will the $450,000 come from the USCF will need to pay back that
> loan?

quote:

> What part of this question do you not understand?

What part of the question hasn't been answered?

quote:

>
> Sam Sloan

Randy Bauer

Jürgen R.

2004-11-02, 9:46 am

timothyhanke@comcast.net (Tim Hanke) wrote:

quote:

>"Chess One" <innes8@verizon.net> wrote ...
>
>Phil,
>
>What part of "no-money-down construction loan" do you not understand?

The parts that I don't know about are the interest rate and the
repayment period.

quote:

>How many times do you have to be told the facts before you will admit
>them?
>

Jürgen R.

2004-11-02, 9:46 am

quote:

>
>You do not know New York very well. Probably you have visited Times
>Square and base your opinions on that.

Jürgen R.

2004-11-02, 9:46 am

sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote:

quote:

>On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:07:06 GMT, jurgenr@web.de (Jürgen R.) wrote:
>
>
>Far Rockaway is getting much better. Looking out my window here, I can
>see dozens of new homes under construction. A decade ago, this is a
>place where you would not want to live. There are lots of Russians and
>Afghans here. I brought the Afghans. (Actually, I brought just one
>Afghan. He brought all the rest.)
>
>However, comparing New York to another place as a place to live is not
>the point. New York is a center for business and world trade. Should
>the United Nations move to Crossville just because land is available
>there, or should it stay in New York City?
>
>The USCF is like the United Nations, except that it is devoted
>exclusively to chess.

There are one or two small differences between the UN and the USCF
that even you might have noticed.
Of course, Crossville is a completely absurd idea - but Far Rockaway
is even dumber.

quote:

>
>Sam Sloan
>

Sam Sloan

2004-11-02, 9:46 am

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:07:06 GMT, jurgenr@web.de (Jürgen R.) wrote:

quote:

>
>
>I know NY very well and, among the many places where I have lived, it
>is the easily the most despicable. Nobody who has a viable choice
>lives in Far Rockaway. Didn't you say you were living on your wife's
>unemployment check? Might that be the reason?

Parrthenon

2004-11-03, 5:47 pm

A HOUSE DIVIDED

<<Moving to Crossville, Tennessee strikes me as yet one more significant
strategic mistake by USCF in a long string of strategic mistakes over the past
decade.>> -- Candidate Tim Hanke (in rec.games.chess.politics on June 14,
2003).

Yet board member Tim Hanke recently cast the decisive vote to move to
Crossville instead of waiting a mere two weeks to explore a deal offered to
the USCF in Liberty, New York, by a billionaire philanthropist.

When asked to justify his vote, which contradicted his campaign statement that
moving to Crossville was "yet one more strategic mistake," Mr. Hanke called
this writer "a master propagandist" and insulted others who voted for him
because of his opposition to Crossville.

Mr. Hanke never offered a compelling reason for voting against a motion that
was supported by Randy Bauer, Frank Brady and Don Schultz (as well as executive
director Bill Goichberg, who has no vote) to wait just two more weeks before
making a momentous decision to pull up stakes by March 31, 2005, dump the
current staff, and tie up perhaps half a million dollars in a new mortgage to
construct a new building in Crossville that the USCF doesn't really need.

In fact, not one of the four board members who voted for Crossville has given
a single valid reason for not waiting just two weeks.

<<On the face of it people seem to have made their decision in a hurry for no
apparent reason, informed by wildly conflicting reports of the 3 sites, and
without stating what goal is to be achieved by any move.>> -- Phil Innes

________________________________________________________________
"FIDE has made its decision. Players who refuse to be drug tested will not be
able to play chess." -- Dr. Press, co-founder of the FIDE Medical Commission.

Chess One

2004-11-03, 5:47 pm

"Parrthenon" <parrthenon@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20041103100026.11401.00000010@mb-m29.news.cs.com...

quote:

> A HOUSE DIVIDED
>
> <<Moving to Crossville, Tennessee strikes me as yet one more significant
> strategic mistake by USCF in a long string of strategic mistakes over the
> past
> decade.>> -- Candidate Tim Hanke (in rec.games.chess.politics on June 14,
> 2003).
>
> Yet board member Tim Hanke recently cast the decisive vote to move to
> Crossville instead of waiting a mere two weeks to explore a deal offered
> to
> the USCF in Liberty, New York, by a billionaire philanthropist.
>
> When asked to justify his vote, which contradicted his campaign statement
> that
> moving to Crossville was "yet one more strategic mistake," Mr. Hanke
> called
> this writer "a master propagandist" and insulted others who voted for him
> because of his opposition to Crossville.

At least you made master Larry. I think I am only a common or garden liar
concerning another turnaround opinion on Pehme. Its not so much that either
I nor Tim Hanke made demonstrative statements about Pehme and there was
always room for some doubt, but that I alone am 'lying'.

Pyschologically are we attempting to discuss these affairs with someone who
can't own their own part in it, and consequently this descent to blaming,
and overall reduction of affairs to personalities?

I thought that was the unique crime of you 'old guardists?'

I never thought so - never thought any fortunes at USCF had much to do with
any personalities whatever, and were almost entirely systemic features.

quote:

> Mr. Hanke never offered a compelling reason for voting against a motion
> that
> was supported by Randy Bauer, Frank Brady and Don Schultz (as well as
> executive
> director Bill Goichberg, who has no vote) to wait just two more weeks
> before
> making a momentous decision to pull up stakes by March 31, 2005, dump the
> current staff, and tie up perhaps half a million dollars in a new mortgage
> to
> construct a new building in Crossville that the USCF doesn't really need.
>
> In fact, not one of the four board members who voted for Crossville has
> given
> a single valid reason for not waiting just two weeks.

Yes. The silence is deafening.

They are going to respend all the sale money from New Windsor outside of any
strategic plan in an attempt to replicate current functions, as is (as
are!), and against the wishes of the ExDir who must report to the board on
the viability of any change, as is only responsible.

No one seems interested in this aspect of things and it appears that Bill
has been told to button it, thanks for the years service for a buck and his
further views are not welcome.

Its not just that this is all of the sale money from New Windsor, its the
last of any money. Current income and expenditure being roughly equal, there
are no forseeable big new chunks of it - therefore this particular
volte-face has a potentially lethal sting in the tail.

And as you say, with no single valid reason.

Phil Innes

quote:

> <<On the face of it people seem to have made their decision in a hurry for
> no
> apparent reason, informed by wildly conflicting reports of the 3 sites,
> and
> without stating what goal is to be achieved by any move.>> -- Phil Innes
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> "FIDE has made its decision. Players who refuse to be drug tested will not
> be
> able to play chess." -- Dr. Press, co-founder of the FIDE Medical
> Commission.

Parrthenon

2004-11-04, 9:46 am

Mike Nolan

2004-11-04, 9:46 am

parrthenon@cs.com (Parrthenon) writes:

quote:

>Had the board waited two weeks and then voted in favor of Crossville by citing
>valid reasons for turning down Liberty, people like Sam Sloan would not be
>considering a lawsuit.

I tend to doubt it. Based on the suits Sam has filed (or claimed to have
filed), he'd sue a dog for pissing on a fire hydrant.
--
Mike Nolan

Sam Sloan

2004-11-04, 5:47 pm

On 31 Oct 2004 19:21:40 GMT, nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan) wrote:

quote:

>parrthenon@cs.com (Parrthenon) writes:
>
>
>I tend to doubt it. Based on the suits Sam has filed (or claimed to have
>filed), he'd sue a dog for pissing on a fire hydrant.
>--
>Mike Nolan

Spam Scone

2004-11-04, 5:47 pm

sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote in message news:<4184edd5.4880796@ca.news.verio.net>...

quote:

> The USCF is like the United Nations, except that it is devoted
> exclusively to chess.

Poor analogy. If USCF = UN, then what is FIDE?

Mike Murray

2004-11-04, 5:47 pm

On 01 Nov 2004 00:36:31 GMT, ascachess@aol.com (ASCACHESS) wrote:

quote:

>I defy you to strain English through a collander and get anything like this
>canard.

quote:

>The USCF is like the United Nations?

quote:

>How?

They're full of lame ducks. I canard-ly believe you asked.

quote:

>

Doom & Gloom Dave

2004-11-04, 5:47 pm

Sam Sloan wrote:

quote:

> On 31 Oct 2004 19:21:40 GMT, nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan) wrote:
>
>
> Not true. I never bring a lawsuit unless I have researched the law
> carefully and I an sure that I have a 100% winning case.
>
> Even then, I know that very often a judge will made a crazy or
> ridiculous ruling and throw a completely sound case out of court.
>
> It is because I am very careful that I often win. Except for my
> lawsuits against the Republican Party and the Independence Party,
> which are now pending in the US Supreme Court, I have not filed a case
> since 2001 and the one before that was several years earlier.
>

Does the word Creighton ring a bell?

Jürgen R.

2004-11-07, 6:45 am

sloan@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) wrote:

quote:

>On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:07:06 GMT, jurgenr@web.de (Jürgen R.) wrote:
>
>
>Far Rockaway is getting much better. Looking out my window here, I can
>see dozens of new homes under construction. A decade ago, this is a
>place where you would not want to live. There are lots of Russians and
>Afghans here. I brought the Afghans. (Actually, I brought just one
>Afghan. He brought all the rest.)
>
>However, comparing New York to another place as a place to live is not
>the point. New York is a center for business and world trade. Should
>the United Nations move to Crossville just because land is available
>there, or should it stay in New York City?
>
>The USCF is like the United Nations, except that it is devoted
>exclusively to chess.

There are one or two small differences between the UN and the USCF
that even you might have noticed.
Of course, Crossville is a completely absurd idea - but Far Rockaway
is even dumber.

quote:

>
>Sam Sloan
>

Mike Nolan

2004-11-07, 6:45 am

parrthenon@cs.com (Parrthenon) writes:

quote:

>Had the board waited two weeks and then voted in favor of Crossville by citing
>valid reasons for turning down Liberty, people like Sam Sloan would not be
>considering a lawsuit.

I tend to doubt it. Based on the suits Sam has filed (or claimed to have
filed), he'd sue a dog for pissing on a fire hydrant.
--
Mike Nolan

Doom & Gloom Dave

2004-11-08, 5:47 pm

Sam Sloan wrote:

quote:

> On 31 Oct 2004 19:21:40 GMT, nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan) wrote:
>
>
> Not true. I never bring a lawsuit unless I have researched the law
> carefully and I an sure that I have a 100% winning case.
>
> Even then, I know that very often a judge will made a crazy or
> ridiculous ruling and throw a completely sound case out of court.
>
> It is because I am very careful that I often win. Except for my
> lawsuits against the Republican Party and the Independence Party,
> which are now pending in the US Supreme Court, I have not filed a case
> since 2001 and the one before that was several years earlier.
>

Does the word Creighton ring a bell?

Parrthenon

2004-11-10, 12:45 am

Chess One

2004-11-10, 12:45 am

"Parrthenon" <parrthenon@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20041103100026.11401.00000010@mb-m29.news.cs.com...

quote:

> A HOUSE DIVIDED
>
> <<Moving to Crossville, Tennessee strikes me as yet one more significant
> strategic mistake by USCF in a long string of strategic mistakes over the
> past
> decade.>> -- Candidate Tim Hanke (in rec.games.chess.politics on June 14,
> 2003).
>
> Yet board member Tim Hanke recently cast the decisive vote to move to
> Crossville instead of waiting a mere two weeks to explore a deal offered
> to
> the USCF in Liberty, New York, by a billionaire philanthropist.
>
> When asked to justify his vote, which contradicted his campaign statement
> that
> moving to Crossville was "yet one more strategic mistake," Mr. Hanke
> called
> this writer "a master propagandist" and insulted others who voted for him
> because of his opposition to Crossville.

quote:

> Mr. Hanke never offered a compelling reason for voting against a motion
> that
> was supported by Randy Bauer, Frank Brady and Don Schultz (as well as
> executive
> director Bill Goichberg, who has no vote) to wait just two more weeks
> before
> making a momentous decision to pull up stakes by March 31, 2005, dump the
> current staff, and tie up perhaps half a million dollars in a new mortgage
> to
> construct a new building in Crossville that the USCF doesn't really need.
>
> In fact, not one of the four board members who voted for Crossville has
> given
> a single valid reason for not waiting just two weeks.

quote:

> <<On the face of it people seem to have made their decision in a hurry for
> no
> apparent reason, informed by wildly conflicting reports of the 3 sites,
> and
> without stating what goal is to be achieved by any move.>> -- Phil Innes
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> "FIDE has made its decision. Players who refuse to be drug tested will not
> be
> able to play chess." -- Dr. Press, co-founder of the FIDE Medical
> Commission.