Chess politics - How does USCF prevent CHEATING?

Author

How does USCF prevent CHEATING?

Ray Gordon

2004-10-01, 5:45 pm

This is a serious issue, especially with "Pocket Fritz" on the rise.

About 15 years ago, I was playing a game against an Expert. I played the
Yugoslav against his Dragon, and when we reached a key position, he took his
bookbag with him to the bathroom, came back about seven minutes later,
reeled off six perfect moves, and won.

I see problems both with players and spectators relaying moves here. It
would be very easy to do this, and is there anything USCF has done to stop
it? Is it time for closed playing areas with a referee?

---
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
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Mike Murray

2004-10-01, 5:45 pm

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:45:29 GMT, "Ray Gordon" <ray@cybersheet.com>
wrote:

quote:

>About 15 years ago, I was playing a game against an Expert. I played the
>Yugoslav against his Dragon, and when we reached a key position, he took his
>bookbag with him to the bathroom, came back about seven minutes later,
>reeled off six perfect moves, and won.

About 35 years ago, this same thing happened to a Northwest Expert.
The tournament director (Buzz Eddy) followed him into the can, jerked
open the stall door, found him engrossed in an opening manual, and
forfeited him.

But you can't catch 'em all.

Harold Buck

2004-10-01, 5:45 pm

In article <o6erl0df0l38tqn937ccbavjdiuc9pdtjg@4ax.com>,
Mike Murray <mikemurray@despammed.com> wrote:

quote:

> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:45:29 GMT, "Ray Gordon" <ray@cybersheet.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> About 35 years ago, this same thing happened to a Northwest Expert.
> The tournament director (Buzz Eddy) followed him into the can, jerked
> open the stall door, found him engrossed in an opening manual, and
> forfeited him.
>

Yeah, but what about all those times you try to do that and just find
out that the guy is masturbating?

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Mike Murray

2004-10-02, 12:45 am

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:41:04 -0500, Harold Buck
<no_one_knows@comcast.net> wrote:

quote:

>In article <o6erl0df0l38tqn937ccbavjdiuc9pdtjg@4ax.com>,
> Mike Murray <mikemurray@despammed.com> wrote:

quote:

[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>Yeah, but what about all those times you try to do that and just find
>out that the guy is masturbating?

You must be talking about the famous Ibn Yakinov. But most times,
it's just camouflage. Don't be fooled. Behind that copy of Playboy,
he's got an MCO.

quote:

>--Harold Buck
>
>
>"I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson

David Ames

2004-10-02, 12:45 am

"Ray Gordon" <ray@cybersheet.com> wrote in message news:<dBh7d.383$Y54.62@trndny09>...

quote:

> This is a serious issue, especially with "Pocket Fritz" on the rise.
>
> About 15 years ago, I was playing a game against an Expert. I played the
> Yugoslav against his Dragon, and when we reached a key position, he took his
> bookbag with him to the bathroom, came back about seven minutes later,
> reeled off six perfect moves, and won.
>
> I see problems both with players and spectators relaying moves here. It
> would be very easy to do this, and is there anything USCF has done to stop
> it? Is it time for closed playing areas with a referee?
>
> ---

Surely if there were other witnesses to see him take his bookbag, you
could have summoned the TD and asked him to look into the bookbag.
You don't say if USCF conducted the tournament, so it's not possible
to say if USCF could have done anything about cheating.

David Ames

Ray Gordon

2004-10-02, 12:45 am

>> This is a serious issue, especially with "Pocket Fritz" on the rise.

quote:

>
> Surely if there were other witnesses to see him take his bookbag, you
> could have summoned the TD and asked him to look into the bookbag.

The guy was from the area and it would have caused a long-term rift. Wasn't
worth it anyway as it was a swiss and I got the point back in the following
round. I just gave him a dirty look and left it at that. Even if he wasn't
guilty, he should have realized he appeared guilty.

quote:

> You don't say if USCF conducted the tournament, so it's not possible
> to say if USCF could have done anything about cheating.

It was a USCF-rated tournament, not a USCF tournament.

These days, I'd be more worried about spectators using signals to relay the
right move in a critical position. It's just too easy if they still play
the way they did in the pre-computer era. I used to leave the tournament
room for minutes at a time, sometimes even leaving the building, and no one
cared.

Today all it would take is 30 seconds to pull it off.

Want to see me win the Open Section of a major swiss to prove it can be
done?

Ray Gordon

2004-10-02, 12:45 am

Additionally: it's like electronic voting.

How long before "eLiTeDuDe15" wins the presidency?

Kenneth Sloan

2004-10-02, 12:45 am

"Ray Gordon" <ray@cybersheet.com> writes:

quote:

> ...
> Want to see me win the Open Section of a major swiss to prove it can be
> done?
>

Yes.

--
Kenneth Sloan sloan@uab.edu
Computer and Information Sciences (205) 934-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX (205) 934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/

Ray Gordon

2004-10-02, 5:45 pm

>> Want to see me win the Open Section of a major swiss to prove it can be

quote:

>
> Yes.

Well, I'd have to have someone else do it and some type of liability waiver
that states that we'd come clean after the event, but yes, it could be done
very easily.

I've played in hundreds of tournaments and if the same rules still apply,
this would be child's play.

I'm sure it's being done already.

Players should not be allowed to leave the board during games, and
spectators shouldn't be allowed in the playing area anymore.

As long as those two conditions are in place, a chess tournament can be
turned into a farce by anyone with half a brain and a pocket chess computer.

astro

2004-10-03, 5:47 pm

Ray Gordon wrote:

quote:

>
>
> Well, I'd have to have someone else do it and some type of liability waiver
> that states that we'd come clean after the event, but yes, it could be done
> very easily.
>
> I've played in hundreds of tournaments and if the same rules still apply,
> this would be child's play.
>
> I'm sure it's being done already.
>
> Players should not be allowed to leave the board during games, and
> spectators shouldn't be allowed in the playing area anymore.
>
> As long as those two conditions are in place, a chess tournament can be
> turned into a farce by anyone with half a brain and a pocket chess computer.
>
>
>

Should players be allowed to pee themselves? Or better, use empty water
bottles as they play!

Sam Sloan

2004-10-03, 5:47 pm

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:50:58 GMT, astro <spam@fourgurus.com> wrote:

quote:

>Should players be allowed to pee themselves? Or better, use empty water
>bottles as they play!

Tournament chess players should be required to do what race car
drivers do: Have little bottles taped between their legs to pee in
while the race is going on.

Sam Sloan

Terry

2004-10-04, 6:45 am

"Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:41605a94.244361562@ca.news.verio.net...

quote:

> On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:50:58 GMT, astro <spam@fourgurus.com> wrote:
>
>
> Tournament chess players should be required to do what race car
> drivers do: Have little bottles taped between their legs to pee in
> while the race is going on.
>
> Sam Sloan

A little difficult for Judit.

Regards

Harold Buck

2004-10-05, 12:45 am

In article <mSX7d.64663$uN5.37146@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
astro <spam@fourgurus.com> wrote:

quote:

>
> Should players be allowed to pee themselves? Or better, use empty water
> bottles as they play!

That's why they make "Depends" adult diapers. Well, it's not why they
make them, but it would solve the problem. Everyone puts one on before
the tournament and no one has an excuse to leave the table.

If you take a dump, there will be a person assigned to verify it and
walk you to the rest room to help change it.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

2004-10-05, 12:45 am

"Harold Buck" <no_one_knows@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:no_one_knows-933160.20060604102004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...

quote:

> In article <mSX7d.64663$uN5.37146@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
> astro <spam@fourgurus.com> wrote:
>
be[vbcol=seagreen]
computer.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> That's why they make "Depends" adult diapers. Well, it's not why they
> make them, but it would solve the problem. Everyone puts one on before
> the tournament and no one has an excuse to leave the table.
>
> If you take a dump, there will be a person assigned to verify it and
> walk you to the rest room to help change it.
>
> --Harold Buck

A simple strip search of all players and spectators would take care of the
problem.

Harold Buck

2004-10-05, 12:45 am

In article <3hn8d.4775$Xk1.1385@trnddc02>, "fs" <a@b.c> wrote:

quote:

>
> A simple strip search of all players and spectators would take care of the
> problem.

A strip search would prevent people from having to go to the bathroom
during a tournament?!

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

2004-10-05, 12:45 am

"Harold Buck" <no_one_knows@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:no_one_knows-B7DCF0.21350404102004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...

quote:

> In article <3hn8d.4775$Xk1.1385@trnddc02>, "fs" <a@b.c> wrote:
>
water[vbcol=seagreen]
before[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> A strip search would prevent people from having to go to the bathroom
> during a tournament?!
>

It would prevent them from having to go in their pants, as you suggest.
Knowing that no illicit reading material or hardware has entered the
tournament hall, the players could use the restroom like civilized people.

StanB

2004-10-05, 9:45 am

"Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:41605a94.244361562@ca.news.verio.net...

quote:

> On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:50:58 GMT, astro <spam@fourgurus.com> wrote:
>
>
> Tournament chess players should be required to do what race car
> drivers do: Have little bottles taped between their legs to pee in
> while the race is going on.
>
> Sam Sloan
>

StanB

2004-10-05, 9:45 am

"astro" <spam@fourgurus.com> wrote in message
news:mSX7d.64663$uN5.37146@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...

quote:

> Should players be allowed to pee themselves? Or better, use empty water
> bottles as they play!

Make'em tie a knot in it.

Harold Buck

2004-10-05, 9:45 am

In article <tIo8d.4787$Xk1.1253@trnddc02>, "fs" <a@b.c> wrote:

quote:

>
> It would prevent them from having to go in their pants, as you suggest.
> Knowing that no illicit reading material or hardware has entered the
> tournament hall, the players could use the restroom like civilized people.

So, for example, the strip search people are qualified to tell if I've
got a chess computer linked into my watch? Or do we give them all orange
jumpsuits and no personal belongings at all?

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

John Rowland

2004-10-06, 12:45 am

"Harold Buck" <no_one_knows@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:no_one_knows-403FC8.15410401102004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...

quote:

> In article <o6erl0df0l38tqn937ccbavjdiuc9pdtjg@4ax.com>,
> Mike Murray <mikemurray@despammed.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah, but what about all those times you try to do
> that and just find out that the guy is masturbating?

Are you allowed to promote a third bishop?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acr...069/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

2004-10-06, 12:45 am

"Harold Buck" <no_one_knows@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:no_one_knows-E35BAA.07401805102004@comcast.dca.giganews.com...

quote:

> In article <tIo8d.4787$Xk1.1253@trnddc02>, "fs" <a@b.c> wrote:
>
people.[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> So, for example, the strip search people are qualified to tell if I've
> got a chess computer linked into my watch? Or do we give them all orange
> jumpsuits and no personal belongings at all?
>

There will be a clock on the wall - you do not need a watch. All you need
bring is a chess set (wood or plastic) a chess clock (wind-up preferred)
and a wooden #2 pencil. Refreshments (juice and butter cookies) will be
served, so you do not need food. You may choose the color of your
jumpsuit, and if you prefer peeing in a bottle to using the toilet, you may
bring that as well.

Duncan

2004-10-06, 12:45 am

When we do a long climb (as in rock climbing) we pee into empty waterbottles
we have saved. So, the people behind you don't get an unpleasant surprise.
Don't ask why we save sandwich bags.

"StanB" <stanbooz@comXXXcast.net> wrote in message
news:pdSdnZpy74DxH__cRVn-tA@comcast.com...

"Sam Sloan" <sloan@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:41605a94.244361562@ca.news.verio.net...

quote:

> On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:50:58 GMT, astro <spam@fourgurus.com> wrote:
>
>
> Tournament chess players should be required to do what race car
> drivers do: Have little bottles taped between their legs to pee in
> while the race is going on.
>
> Sam Sloan
>

Mike Nolan

2004-10-06, 12:45 am

"John Rowland" <johnr@journeyflow.spamspam.demon.co.uk> writes:

quote:

>Are you allowed to promote a third bishop?

Sure, though there aren't many circumstances in which it is the best move.
--
Mike Nolan

Harold Buck

2004-10-06, 12:45 am

In article <cjvfor$20i$1@gw.tssi.com>, nolan@gw.tssi.com (Mike Nolan)
wrote:

quote:

> "John Rowland" <johnr@journeyflow.spamspam.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>
> Sure, though there aren't many circumstances in which it is the best move.

Wow, you need to go back and read what you quoted in the context of the
post it came from. You really missed it!

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Duncan

2004-10-12, 12:48 am

quote:

> On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:50:58 GMT, astro <spam@fourgurus.com> wrote:
>
>
> Tournament chess players should be required to do what race car
> drivers do: Have little bottles taped between their legs to pee in
> while the race is going on.
>
> Sam Sloan
>

chapman Billy

2004-10-22, 5:45 pm

Ray Gordon wrote:

quote:

[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> The guy was from the area and it would have caused a long-term rift. Wasn't
> worth it anyway as it was a swiss and I got the point back in the following
> round. I just gave him a dirty look and left it at that. Even if he wasn't
> guilty, he should have realized he appeared guilty.

There are times when a stand must be made. When I was secretary of my
club, I was surprised to learn that a well known cheat, let us call him
the Sot, had become a member of another club. I told that club's
principal that I didn't wish to see the Sot at matches between our two
clubs under any circumstances. We never did.

quote:

> Want to see me win the Open Section of a major swiss to prove it can be
> done?

This is not quite the same, but anyway.

Every year the British Chess Problem Society runs an open competition.
The qualifying test is sat unsupervised at home. A problem solving GM
that I know tends to score about 90 in this test, which, apparently, is
not very good as many unknowns score 98+. These unknowns appear to lose
their enhanced solving capabilities once having qualified, not being
able to solve many, if any, at the national stages.

Regards,

Simon.

--
Excise Burns and his dates to email me.

chapman Billy

2004-10-28, 12:46 am

Ray Gordon wrote:

quote:

[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
> The guy was from the area and it would have caused a long-term rift. Wasn't
> worth it anyway as it was a swiss and I got the point back in the following
> round. I just gave him a dirty look and left it at that. Even if he wasn't
> guilty, he should have realized he appeared guilty.

quote:

> Want to see me win the Open Section of a major swiss to prove it can be
> done?