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Home > Archive > Chinese chess > August 2005 > Draws at WXC
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| DragonSlay 2005-08-07, 8:32 pm |
| Does anyone know the percentage of XiangQi games that end in a draw? Were
there an unusual number of draws at the WXF? I know Lu Gin only needed a
draw in his last game- (I still think Michael Lee did a great job to draw
with the World Champion anyway)- but it seemed there were more draws in
the WXF this year than the games I have seen from past Worlds.
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| claus.tempelmann@web.de 2005-08-07, 8:32 pm |
| I don't know about the numbers of draws in Xiangqi but
I can assure you that we had only were few draws in
this tournament which where friendly draws. Actually,
we saw very many very exciting games finally ending in
a draw. And I don't think that Michael Lee got the draw
from LV Qin as a present, he had to fight for it. LV Qin
had some advantage in the game and it may be that he would
have tried to win longer if a draw would not have been
enough. Nevertheless, Michael Lee had to play accurately
to get the draw.
Claus
DragonSlay schrieb:
quote:
> Does anyone know the percentage of XiangQi games that end in a draw? Were
> there an unusual number of draws at the WXF? I know Lu Gin only needed a
> draw in his last game- (I still think Michael Lee did a great job to draw
> with the World Champion anyway)- but it seemed there were more draws in
> the WXF this year than the games I have seen from past Worlds.
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| DragonSlay 2005-08-08, 8:32 pm |
| Claus- I wasn't implying that anything untoward had occurred at the WXF
among the players. But, I was under the impression that fewer XiangQi
games ended in draws- when compared to western chess- because of the
nature of the game itself. I have looked at games from the last WXC, for
example, and it just seemed to me that more games this year were draws.
And I applaud Michael Lee's play at the WXF! A draw with the defending
world chamion is a tremendous achievement- regardless of the standings at
the time. It was great to see an Amercain do so well!
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| claus.tempelmann@web.de 2005-08-08, 8:32 pm |
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DragonSlay schrieb:
quote:
> Claus- I wasn't implying that anything untoward had occurred at the WXF
> among the players. But, I was under the impression that fewer XiangQi
> games ended in draws- when compared to western chess- because of the
> nature of the game itself. I have looked at games from the last WXC, for
> example, and it just seemed to me that more games this year were draws.
> And I applaud Michael Lee's play at the WXF! A draw with the defending
> world chamion is a tremendous achievement- regardless of the standings at
> the time. It was great to see an Amercain do so well!
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| claus.tempelmann@web.de 2005-08-08, 8:32 pm |
| One can often read that there are fewer draws in Xiangqi - when
compared to western chess - but I don't think that this is true.
In tournaments where only Grandmasters are playing you also have
a high percentage of draws in Xiangqi.
Claus
DragonSlay schrieb:
quote:
> Claus- I wasn't implying that anything untoward had occurred at the WXF
> among the players. But, I was under the impression that fewer XiangQi
> games ended in draws- when compared to western chess- because of the
> nature of the game itself. I have looked at games from the last WXC, for
> example, and it just seemed to me that more games this year were draws.
> And I applaud Michael Lee's play at the WXF! A draw with the defending
> world chamion is a tremendous achievement- regardless of the standings at
> the time. It was great to see an Amercain do so well!
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| Alain Dekker 2005-08-11, 8:32 pm |
| I believe the percentage of games that end in a draw is about half that of
chess, or maybe even slightly lower, if I remember correctly. Xiangqi draws
frequently are very exciting, with a lot of cut and thrust and mutual
attacks. This is contrast to chess where draws occasionally turn out to be
long drawn-out affairs devoid of interest.
In Xiangqi, also, the material balance is almost never equal - one player
may have won an elphant and an advisor for a pawn, say, and this makes for
complex, interesting and frequently very tense endgames. I even saw one game
where the 2nd Hong Kong player was playing against one of the Germans. The
Chiense player had sacrificed *all* his cannons and horses to get an
incredible position threatening his opponents king. The German defended this
onslaught, but slowly the material deficit was reduced to a single horse and
he was then mated. An amazing display!
I hope that Claus Templemann will post Michael Naegler's (Germany) game
against Gert Greeuw (Holland) which was actually the very last game to
finish in the championships. Michael pressed for hour after hour with two
cannons and a horse (knight) against a chariot and pawn (rook) and finally
managed to break through. This won Michael 2nd place in the non-Chinese
section and a very healthy cash prize!
Regards,
Alain
"DragonSlay" <sepolley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18f1644e59c3337415cc452cac9d3170@localhost.talkaboutgaming.com...
quote:
> Does anyone know the percentage of XiangQi games that end in a draw?
> Were
> there an unusual number of draws at the WXF? I know Lu Gin only needed a
> draw in his last game- (I still think Michael Lee did a great job to draw
> with the World Champion anyway)- but it seemed there were more draws in
> the WXF this year than the games I have seen from past Worlds.
>
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| PeterSung 2005-08-12, 8:31 pm |
| In my master database out of 17200 games record
Red won 38%
Draw 30%
Back won 28%
Peter Sung
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| PeterSung 2005-08-12, 8:31 pm |
| In my master database out of 17200 games record
Red won 38%
Draw 30%
Back won 28%
Peter Sung
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| cci_xqr@hotmail.com 2005-08-13, 6:30 am |
| Hi Peter, welcome back!
I have to ask this question: why the numbers don't add up to 100%?
Dave Woo
Chinese Chess Institute
PeterSung wrote:
quote:
> In my master database out of 17200 games record
> Red won 38%
> Draw 30%
> Back won 28%
>
> Peter Sung
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| Andreas Klein 2005-08-13, 8:31 pm |
| Hi,
take a look at
http://www.stqiyuan.com/XQdata/WCha...Div/Index.html. At the
bottom you'll find a statistical overview. 385 games were played in
Paris of which only 71 were drawn (18,44%). 165 games were won by Red
(42,86%) and thus 149 times Black has been the winner (38,70%).
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| PeterSung 2005-08-16, 6:31 am |
| Hi David,
You are right, I forgot to take out the opening record there are no
result.
Here is the more correct number
Total games: 17892
Red won: 38.14%
Draw : 31.80%
Black won: 30.06%
The 9th WXC
Total games: 430
Red won: 43.02%
Draw : 18.37%
Back won: 38.60%
Asia Cup
Total games: 443
Red won: 43.9%
Draw : 22.35%
Back won: 33.73%
Chinese National Champion.
Total games: 3990
Red won: 40.05%
Draw : 33.13%
Back won: 26.82%
China Team Championship.
Total games: 5552
Red won: 39.99%
Draw : 31.65%
Back won: 28.37%
5 Ram Cup
Total games: 501
Red won: 26.77%
Draw : 53.70%
Back won: 19.56%
It looks like if the chess skill between players is more equal, there will
have more draw.
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| cci_xqr@hotmail.com 2005-08-26, 3:31 am |
| Hi Peter:
Your figures (Red won: 38.14% Draw : 31.80% Black won: 30.06%, out of
17892 games), are well in line with ours. The C.C.I. has a collection
considerably larger, although I have not updated the tabulations for
the last few years.
In addition to your point, we also observed that as the general playing
standard improves, the percentage of draws has also gone up.
Dave Woo
Chinese Chess Institute
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