Chinese chess - Mandarin pronunciation of XiangQi.

Author

Mandarin pronunciation of XiangQi.

DragonSlay

2005-02-11, 5:54 pm

Does XiangQi have 2 syllables or 3 in Mandarin? I have seen
transliterations that seem to differ. I am currently saying "shung
chi." Is that even close to correct?

David H Li

2005-02-11, 5:54 pm

DragonSlay wrote:

quote:

>Does XiangQi have 2 syllables or 3 in Mandarin? I have seen
>transliterations that seem to differ. I am currently saying "shung
>chi." Is that even close to correct?
>
>
>

Chinese language is monosyllabic, one syllable for each word/character.
Xiangqi, a compound noun, has two characters when written; it has two
syllables when enunciated. Xiang, when enunciated, is similar to Shang
in Shanghai or Shangri-la; qi, as Chee in cheese.

David Li

Felix Tan

2005-02-11, 5:54 pm

DragonSlay wrote:

quote:

> Does XiangQi have 2 syllables or 3 in Mandarin? I have seen
> transliterations that seem to differ. I am currently saying "shung
> chi." Is that even close to correct?

I have always respected David Li's contributions in writing books on
xiangqi in the English language. But, I am sad to point out that his
posting about the pronunciation of the Chinese words "XiangQi" is
rather misleading. For that matter, there are plenty of wrongly spelt
pinyin names of the Chinese XQ masters in his books.

The sound of a Chinese character is mostly made up of two components:
the initial "shengmu" (consonant) and the final "yunmu" (vowel,or
diphthong,or compound vowel). There are words without the initial
component.
Xiang is made up of the "shengmu" x and the compound "yunmu" iang.
Likewise, Qi is made up of "shengmu" q and "yunmu" i.
Some of the Mandarin sounds are difficult to English speakers. For
examples
j, q, x as their sounds are totally different than the English
alphebets.
The text book instruction on making the x sound is
"Move upward and forward the front part of your tongue surface and make
it approach the front hard palate, with a narrow chink left; pronounce
with the breath squeezing out from the chink."
Even the Chinese can get confused with the following ten initials:
j, q, x, z, c, s, zh, ch, sh, and r.

Besides, Chinese is a tonal language. So you have also to get the tone
right. Just take the word xiangqi as an example, If xiang carries the
4th tone, and qi the 2nd tone, it means the game Chinese Chess. But if
you pronounce xiang in the 1st tone, qi in the 4th, it means fragance;
and when
both carry the 3rd tone, it means recall.

I suggest you visit this website www.newconceptmandarin.com where you
can hear the words pronounced. When you are there, click on the
[Chinese Pronunciation] button. You will find a Mandarin Procunciation
Table at the bottom of the page. Click X on the index, you will find
xiang in the 4th column. Remember xiang in xiangqi should take the 4th
tone. Click the correct box to hear it pronounced. Similarly, you can
find qi under Q. Listen to the one in the second tone.

Perhaps you may wish to take a step further and learn the Mandarin
pronunciation of the pieces. Below are the hanyu pinyin with
the tone indicated, so that you can check out the pronunciation there:

Red King shuai4
black King jiang4
Advisor shi4
Elephant xiang4
Chariot ju1
Horse ma3
Cannon pao4
Red Pawn bing1
Black Pawn zu2

Felix Tan
Singapore

David H Li

2005-02-12, 2:08 pm

Felix Tan wrote:

quote:

>DragonSlay wrote:
>
>
>
>I have always respected David Li's contributions in writing books on
>xiangqi in the English language. But, I am sad to point out that his
>posting about the pronunciation of the Chinese words "XiangQi" is
>rather misleading.
>

First of all, I wish to thank Felix. The first time I met Felix was in
Singapore in September 1995, almost a decade ago. It was during the 4th
World Xiangqi Championship, and Felix was in charge. Nevertheless, he
took time out to meet at the airport and took excellent care of me
during my stay. (I hasten to add that, to maintain my independence, I
paid my own way, on this WXC as well as on other WXCs I attended
subsequently.) It was Felix who encouraged me to do a book on Xiangqi
in English, whose advice I took. So, I am always grateful to him for
his advice, then and now. Indeed, he gave me excellent advice the last
time I met him in person, in Hong Kong in December 2003, during the 8th WXC.

As to his comment that my posting about the pronunciation of Chinese
words 'xiangqi' is 'rather misleading,' let me plead my case as
follows. DragonSlay asks two questions. One, does Xiangqi have two
syllables or three syllables? I answered in the former. Two, is
pronouncing "Xiangqi" as "shung chi" close to correct? I answered by
saying that Xiang is enunciated as Shang in Shanghai or Shangri-la, and
qi as chee in cheese. I thought the two questions were straight forward
and simple, and I answered them accordingly. I am a layman with little
knowledge of linguistics, but have always thought that using homonyms to
represent the sound of words under question is acceptable. Thus, I am
at a loss as to why my simple answers are "rather misleading."

quote:

>For that matter, there are plenty of wrongly spelt
>pinyin names of the Chinese XQ masters in his books.
>
>

I followed the pinyin in Xinhua Chinese dictionary. However, players
from Hong Kong, Taiwan, and other locations have their preferences in
spelling their names, and I have generally respected their preferences.

quote:

>The sound of a Chinese character is mostly made up of two components:
>the initial "shengmu" (consonant) and the final "yunmu" (vowel,or
>diphthong,or compound vowel). There are words without the initial
>component.
>Xiang is made up of the "shengmu" x and the compound "yunmu" iang.
>Likewise, Qi is made up of "shengmu" q and "yunmu" i.
>Some of the Mandarin sounds are difficult to English speakers. For
>examples
>j, q, x as their sounds are totally different than the English
>alphebets.
>The text book instruction on making the x sound is
>"Move upward and forward the front part of your tongue surface and make
>it approach the front hard palate, with a narrow chink left; pronounce
>with the breath squeezing out from the chink."
>Even the Chinese can get confused with the following ten initials:
>j, q, x, z, c, s, zh, ch, sh, and r.
>
>Besides, Chinese is a tonal language. So you have also to get the tone
>right. Just take the word xiangqi as an example, If xiang carries the
>4th tone, and qi the 2nd tone, it means the game Chinese Chess. But if
>you pronounce xiang in the 1st tone, qi in the 4th, it means fragance;
>and when
>both carry the 3rd tone, it means recall.
>
>I suggest you visit this website www.newconceptmandarin.com where you
>can hear the words pronounced. When you are there, click on the
>[Chinese Pronunciation] button. You will find a Mandarin Procunciation
>Table at the bottom of the page. Click X on the index, you will find
>xiang in the 4th column. Remember xiang in xiangqi should take the 4th
>tone. Click the correct box to hear it pronounced. Similarly, you can
>find qi under Q. Listen to the one in the second tone.
>
>

Felix took pains to explain all the finer points of pronunication in
Chinese and direct DragonSlay to websites so that he/she can hear these
two words enunciated. These are very much appreciated. Still, to my
simple mind, Felix has not answered the two simple questions DragonSlay
asked: How many syllables are in Xiangqi and how is "Xiangqi" pronounced?

quote:

>Perhaps you may wish to take a step further and learn the Mandarin
>pronunciation of the pieces. Below are the hanyu pinyin with
>the tone indicated, so that you can check out the pronunciation there:
>
>Red King shuai4
>black King jiang4
>Advisor shi4
>Elephant xiang4
>Chariot ju1
>Horse ma3
>Cannon pao4
>Red Pawn bing1
>Black Pawn zu2
>
>

In my First Book on Xiangqi - Chinese Chess 1, I mention that, as to
Xiangq pieces in Chinese, there are 10 different characters. The above
list has only nine entries. To avoid confusion, let me add the tenth:

Elephant (Red) xiang4
Elephant (Black) xiang4

In the above, I put the words "Red" and "Black" in parentheses to give
the impression that, for each entry, it is only one word we are talking
about -- each Chinese character has but one syllable.

David Li