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Reading Chinese game scores
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| Richard 2004-12-18, 12:45 am |
| I know of a few web sites and books on XiangQi that are in Chinese.
Even though I only know English, I'd like to learn to read the game
notation in Chinese, to be able to play out the games listed there or
the moves associated with a particular diagram, even if I can't read
the text that goes with it.
It appears that the format of the moves in the Chinese notation is the
same as the WXF notation in English (ie 1. C2=5 H8+7 ...). I can tell
that the moves are listed as 4 characters each, with the first
character always being the piece being moved, so I already recognize
those symbols. I just need to know what the rest of the symbols are.
So does anyone know a web site that gives the English translations for
all of the characters used in writing XiangQi game scores in Chinese?
For that matter, while we're on the subject of XiangQi in Chinese, does
anyone know if there is a web site that gives the Chinese names of the
pieces and other common terms associated with the game? I know "xiang"
is elephant and "ma" is horse, and of course, I know the name of the
game is XiangQi, but that's the extent of my knowledge. I'm also not
even sure whether those few words that I know are Mandarin or
Cantonese.
So are there any web sites that give basic Chinese language lessons for
English speaking XiangQi players? A pronunciation guide might be nice,
too, but I can probably find a Chinese language teaching site somewhere
that covers how to pronounce words based on the phonetic spelling, if
necessary.
Thanks in advance,
--Richard
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| David H Li 2004-12-18, 9:45 am |
| Richard wrote:
quote:
> I know of a few web sites and books on XiangQi that are in Chinese.
> Even though I only know English, I'd like to learn to read the game
> notation in Chinese, to be able to play out the games listed there or
> the moves associated with a particular diagram, even if I can't read
> the text that goes with it.
Your strong interest in Xiangqi is admirable. You are half-way there when
you can read the moves in an unfamiliar language. Let me cite a similar
experience of my own. In my view, next to players of Chinese ancestry,
Vietnamese players, as a group, are the next strongest (as evidenced by
their performance in World Xiangqi Championships, in the 8th WXC (Hong Kong
2003), players from these two groups were in the same bracket for
prize-consideration purposes). One time, I asked a colleague of my wife,
who is from Vietnam (they both work for the World Bank), to buy a copy of a
Xiangqi book written in Vietnamese. Once I figured out what piece the
first word in each four-character group represents, I had no problem in
following other moves. And I was/am impressed; the quality of play (from
actual matches played in Vietnam) in the book is extremely high.
quote:
> It appears that the format of the moves in the Chinese notation is the
> same as the WXF notation in English (ie 1. C2=5 H8+7 ...). I can tell
> that the moves are listed as 4 characters each, with the first
> character always being the piece being moved, so I already recognize
> those symbols. I just need to know what the rest of the symbols are.
That WXF notation follows that in Chinese must necessarily be so, since the
former merely translates the simplified Chinese version into English. The
second and fourth characters are numbers -- there are but nine, from 1 to 9
inclusive. If your on-line website gives diagrams in Chinese, just look at
the bottom line below the diagram; it gives the numbers 9 to 1 (reading
from left to right) in Chinese. Match them one-on-one, and you have them
decoded. Failing that, pick a game from its very beginning (which is how I
did with the book written in Vietnamese). After, say, five moves, you
would have these nine numbers decoded. (e.g., with 1 C2=5 H8+7, as in your
example, you know four of the nine numbers: 2, 5, 7, and 8).
By the same token, you can figure out what words are represented by =, +,
or -. Unfortunately, my computer system allows me to read Chinese, but I
have never sent Chinese characters over the internet. But, broadly
speaking, = may be represented by the capital letter T, along with ` ' and
another horizontal line below the top.
+ and - both have the same radical (in the instances at hand, the left side
of each of the two words) symboling (stylistically) movement. If the score
is recent and originates from mainland China, the right side of one of the
two words would show a # -- if so, that word (the left and right sides
together) is the Chinese character for +. If the score does not have these
two characteristics, the right side of that word would show (1) a '
(suggesting a flag), (2) a | (suggesting a mast), and (3) four horizontal
lines and another | (suggesting a woven sail) -- together (the left radical
and the right component), the word symbolizes sailing with the wind (that
is, advance, or +). By a process of elimination, the other word has to be
-. But, just to continue with this exercise, the right side of this other
word symbolizes the heel -- when you move first with your heel, you move
backward and thus, retreat, or -.
quote:
> So does anyone know a web site that gives the English translations for
> all of the characters used in writing XiangQi game scores in Chinese?
>
> For that matter, while we're on the subject of XiangQi in Chinese, does
> anyone know if there is a web site that gives the Chinese names of the
> pieces and other common terms associated with the game? I know "xiang"
> is elephant and "ma" is horse, and of course, I know the name of the
> game is XiangQi, but that's the extent of my knowledge. I'm also not
> even sure whether those few words that I know are Mandarin or
> Cantonese.
The first part of this segment of your query has been answered in the first
two paragraphs above. As to your last sentence above, Chinese words, in
written form, are substantially unchanged over the millennia (they were
standardized in the 3rd century BCE) and identical around the world. In
spoken form, Mandarin and Cantonese pronounce some words somewhat
differently; in written form, there is but one Chinese language. As to the
former, the continuity of Chinese written words over the ages, in the last
five years or so, I translated the Analects of Confucius (composed in the
5th century BCE or so) and two other Chinese classics of similar vintage
into English with little difficulty. As to the latter, the universality of
the written Chinese words around the world, one time in the early 1970s,
when I was setting up an MBA program for the Chinese university of Hong
Kong as a Ford Foundation Visiting Professor, I travelled in Cambodia but
could not communicate with my driver as to where I wanted to go (to vist
Angor Wat, for example). So I wrote, on a sheet of paper, some words in
Chinese and asked the driver to show the note to a shopkeeper. Sure
enough, he read the note and gave the needed instructions to the driver --
and I arrived at the destination in due course.
quote:
> So are there any web sites that give basic Chinese language lessons for
> English speaking XiangQi players? A pronunciation guide might be nice,
> too, but I can probably find a Chinese language teaching site somewhere
> that covers how to pronounce words based on the phonetic spelling, if
> necessary.
Over the years, I have been asked by Xiangqi enthusiasts to do a book on
key words in Chinese that have special relevance in playing Xiangqi --
mainly in reading the annotations in Chinese, as you plan to do. This is
in the back of my mind; indeed, I have kept my research along this line and
have made a crude attempt. I have set an upper limit to the number of
Chinese words to be included in this projected volume, but it turns out to
be a very difficult task -- the number keeps on growing. One reason is
that, over the millennia, terminology used in Xiangqi has changed -- moving
toward simpler, true, but still rather complicated. In any case, this
project is unlikely to be undertaken, by me, for some years to come.
David Li
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| Keith 2004-12-19, 12:46 am |
| Richard wrote:
quote:
>
> So does anyone know a web site that gives the English translations
for
quote:
> all of the characters used in writing XiangQi game scores in Chinese?
>
Take a look here:
http://wxf.hypermart.net/eg/wxf_notation.html
Regards,
Keith
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| Richard 2004-12-19, 12:46 am |
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Keith wrote:
quote:
> Richard wrote:
> for
Chinese?[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Take a look here:
> http://wxf.hypermart.net/eg/wxf_notation.html
>
> Regards,
> Keith
Thanks! Of course, the numbers are missing from this, but hopefully,
I'll be able to find a generic Chinese language teaching page somewhere
that covers those.
--Richard
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| Keith 2004-12-19, 12:46 am |
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cHMuCgpSZWdhcmRzLApLZWl0aAo=
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| Richard 2004-12-19, 12:46 am |
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Keith wrote:
quote:
> If you look at the link in my first post you'll find:
>
> =E4=B8=80=E8=B7=AF 1st file
> =E4=BA=8C=E8=B7=AF 2nd file
> =E4=B8=89=E8=B7=AF 3rd file
> =E5=9B=9B=E8=B7=AF 4th file
> =E4=BA=94=E8=B7=AF 5th file
> =E5=85=AD=E8=B7=AF 6th file
> =E4=B8=83=E8=B7=AF 7th file
> =E5=85=AB=E8=B7=AF 8th file
> =E4=B9=9D=E8=B7=AF 9th file
>
> I have no idea what will happen to the chinese characters when I post
> this. Hope that this helps.
>
> Regards,
> Keith
Yeah, that was in the second page you posted. I didn't look at
everything on that page yet, because it has so much. The first one,
with the notation, has everything else. Good stuff. Thanks for posting
it.
As for the Chinese characters, they display fine on my PC... now. When
I first went to the pages you provided links for, I didn't see any
Chinese characters at first. In XP, I had to go into the Control Panel,
under Regional and Language Options, and do the "Install Files for East
Asian Languages" option in the Languages tab. So for anyone reading
this who isn't seeing the Chinese characters, try that if you're on a
Windows machine.
Thanks for the links, Keith.
--Richard
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